Gil

Predestination

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Just curious of people's views on this. I think it's an interesting topic, with several views associated with it.

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I believe in Predestination. But not in the sense that the calvanists believe. It is not a matter of God choosing some to be saved and others to go to Hell. But in the manner of that those who believe will be conformed to the image of His son.

Ephesians 1:5 KJV

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.â€

The literal greek translation

“Having predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will;â€

Having predestined us. . . Paul is writing to the church in Ephesus the asumption is that his audience believes on Christ. God never predetermined anyone to go to Hell. What he did plan was that all men would have free will to choose weather or not to accept his gift of salvation. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world. . . " Not a select few but the whole world, however we have that free will bit ". . . that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." The big point here is the target audience of Ephesians 1:5 is that Paul is addressing the believer here not the whole world.

For adoption. . . Every believer is adopted into God's royal family

trhough Christ Jesus. . . Christ is the reason we are part of the family, and because His sacrifice that we are redeemed

For Himself. . . To HIMSELF we are adopted through his Divine love.

according to his good pleasure of His will. . . . When God determined to save sinners (all sinners) it was not that His nature required it, but by His love He willed it.

There are alot more versus to draw from but I will let those who believe a calvanistic aproach state their viewpoints.

It is a very interesting and fun study.

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I think god has a plan for everyone but like above we do have free will and that really is what seperates us from getting where god wants us to be. For ex. God has planned for me to become a really well known chef (hopefully), but somewhere down the line someone decides to offer me cocaine, I for some reason decide to take it and end up a drug addict and homeless. That wasnt the original plan intended for me but my desicions altered the course of my life. I dont know if that makes sense but I hope it does!

I also do think that god does help us along the way.

seeflo

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Yeah, I think there are lots of different ideas. I guess the reason I brought it up is because I cringe at people who think that it's predetermined from before birth by God who goes where. I also cringe at those who say as long as you're Christian, you're good. Part of Jim Gaffigan's routine had something that had a comedic take on confession in the Catholic church. It went something like "I lied, I double parked. Can we wrap this up? I'm meeting a hooker."

He's just being funny, but seriously, I always wonder about where the line is drawn. I don't think I can go out and do dumb things then be like "Well, God will forgive me." At the same time, I surely hope it's not predetermined, because then I feel like I have no control over my life. I feel like I fall in between, and was wondering if people feel the same.

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Yeah, I think there are lots of different ideas. I guess the reason I brought it up is because I cringe at people who think that it's predetermined from before birth by God who goes where. I also cringe at those who say as long as you're Christian, you're good. Part of Jim Gaffigan's routine had something that had a comedic take on confession in the Catholic church. It went something like "I lied, I double parked. Can we wrap this up? I'm meeting a hooker."

He's just being funny, but seriously, I always wonder about where the line is drawn. I don't think I can go out and do dumb things then be like "Well, God will forgive me." At the same time, I surely hope it's not predetermined, because then I feel like I have no control over my life. I feel like I fall in between, and was wondering if people feel the same.

I suspect many people feel as you do - "in between" - with that odd mix of feeling fully one of God's and at the same time a little uneasy or not fully in control. I sometimes think that's possibly the tension we are meant to have as human beings :-)

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I believe in Predestination. But let me clarify...I'm with CF...God doesn't predestine people to go to hell but he has predestined believers to go to Heaven, in my opinion. Although it isn't something my church (United Methodist) touches on very often and I'm not exactly sure why...can be a touchy subject I guess.

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Well, I think I might echo Seelfo with my response here. But, I will post it anyway. I do think that God has plans for people, but it can be altered by their own autonomies. I mean, I think some people are confused about who they are (what makes them happy, or what interests them etc..) And, society does not really help them. Society, at times, gives them noise (read this book, or watch that movie). IMHO, I think God's plan is a way or feeling that shows people that "hey this is why they made that decision", it gives them peace of mind (with God in the middle of it). And, I do believe that God helps people (especially in times of trouble). Sorry for the philosophical response. I guess I'm just trying to put my head around this idea of God's plan; although I do think that it sometimes is a mystery.

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Really? Not even the concept, not the "name " of predestination? You said youre Christian, right? Personally ive heard about it in bible study and such if not church service itself, so i assume other have toi

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I don't believe in pre-destination. I believe that God might influences things, but not that things are predetermined. Although I have to admit, it would be easier to let things go if I thought that God had already decided whether we would go to Heaven or Hell. And overall, I don't think its a big deal whether a person believes in predestination or not, but I did have one guy (who keeps trying to convert me, a christian, to chriistianity) that argued with me about it for at least half an hour. I got the feeling that he figured if you didn't believe in everything he believes, then you are going to hell. I was a little upset with myself for letting that happen. I don't talk to him anymore. I got tired of arguing.

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Meh. I don't really bother worrying about whether or not everything's predetermined or not. Seems to me, if you worry about it too much, then it's going to mess with your mind!

Like, was it the Vikings (I think it was, but doesn't really matter) who believed that, if, say you were going into battle, then it didn't matter how much armour you wore or what weapon you took, because if it was your day to die, then you would die no matter what. But then...does that mean, if you're going to war, then you might as well say, "Well, hey, if it's my day to die, then I'll die anyway, so I'll not bother taking my gun." I mean, that's just dumb!

Oh, I remember a priest in my church once telling a funny story which was sort of like that. There's this guy who every week prays to God, "God, please let me win the lottery. Please let me win the lottery." And he does this every single week, and never wins a thing. He does this every week for five years, and one day gets really frustrated and angry, and starts yelling, "God, if You love me, then let me win the lottery this week!" And he hears this voice in his ear: "You've got to meet Me halfway, man. Buy a ticket."

But...I do believe that God influences things sometimes. I quite like the TV show "Touch", because I think the way things work out on that show would be the way God would influence stuff. Like, for example, in one episode (don't read if you don't want me to spoil the ending!):

In this episode, two soldiers in Iraq escape from an ambush, and make their way to the desert, both severely wounded. Night falls, and the rescue team that are searching for them are unable to find them. Meanwhile, in the village nearby, a couple of teenage boys are trying to tap into the electrical line outside their house so they can power the speakers and amplifiers for their band. They don't want to blow themselves up, so they send an email to a guitar expert in New York, asking advice on the maximum voltage for their amplifier. The guy gets an email, types a reply, but outside his apartment window there's a little boy climbing the fire escape trying to get his kite back. He startles the guy, who then accidentally types "950 volts" instead of "50 volts", and doesn't notice before he sends the email. The boys in Iraq get his email, set the amplifier accordingly, and this blows up the electricity grid, sending sparks to a pylon nearby, and lighting up the area underneath it. It's under the pylon that the two soldiers have collapsed, and the rescue team, seeing the sparks, see them, and are able to rescue them.

See, when I watched that, I thought to myself, "That sounds like the kind of thing God would do if He wanted to help someone. A chain of events, sparked by something small, that ends up changing everything."

Oh, and I also believe that God already knows who I'm going to marry. Now I just have to wait and see how He's planned for us to meet!

xxx

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I've never met anybody who agreed w. me on this, other than the man who fostered the thought (my dad), but I like to believe God is set outside of time. So therefore knows the beginning and the end, but still gives us the free will to do what we will. He just see's the whole picture at once. The Hebrews gave a name to god that ment alpha and omega... The beginning and the end. And time is the movement of matter- well god create matter, so can matter create matter? If matter creates matter than where does the matter come from?

Just food for thought.

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Just curious of people's views on this. I think it's an interesting topic, with several views associated with it.

I absolutely don't believe in predestination.

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It depends on what your definition of predestination is. I think God knows the path our lives will take. But we have free will in getting there.

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I would say I don't believe in it. I have a very good movie analogy. In the Matrix where the Keymaker is running down the hallways and he passes all the closed doors, he goes through one specific one. I believe that life is a series of doors and the choices you make lead you through different doors. You have a choice to go through one door which may branch off to other doors. Ultimately the choice you make determines what door you go through, and where it leads you.

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