starlight91

Struggling with a partner who didnt wait

55 posts in this topic

Just got engaged to a girl who did not wait. I love her so much but the pain is becoming more and more unbearable. Starting from the beginning, I am a very devout Christian, and she has just recommitted herself to Christ a few months ago. I have never had sex, she has confessed to 3 previous sexual partners. She tried holding on to her Christian values with her first bf but he deceived her into thinking that by having sex with him that he would love her then. She gave in. He left her and broke her heart. She went on a wild streak afterwards to fill the void and had two one night stands. It breaks my heart to know this happened to her, and at first it didn't bother me, but recently it's been almost overbearing on my mind. She has sincerely apologized a couple times and has even cried. I forgave her and tried moving on. I decided to read some old Facebook messages of hers and her talking to friends about sex. The messages were during our first month together and she said things like "he took 3 weeks to hold my hand, I usually f*** on the first night" and even talked about how even though one guy wasnt well bestowed below the belt he "really knew how to work it". She had many conversations like this right before we met and a month into our relationship. Now, things have chaned. She has really broken out of that old way of living (with my help and of course The Lords) but it breaks my heart to know thts how she was. I want to throw up everytime I think about reading those messages, I wish I never had. But we believe that God spoke to us at a recent conference we went to that were supposed to be together so it's because of that I am not letting this drive me out of the relationship. We are now engaged but I still can't move past this. I resisted the temptations and waited to save myself and she didnt. I feel cheated, I feel like I waited for nothing and someone's wish I hadn't. She's given herself to 3 others that she's confessed to so she gets to have all of me but I only get a piece of her. I love her and I don't want this to come between us. The way I see it, God is using this to teach me how to TRULY love someone the way Christ loves us. It's just hard. Even though her and I have talked about this before I want to talk about it more because it burdens me but am afraid to drive her away by making her feel guilty. Need advice!!!

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If you know you can't let this issue go, then marrying this woman is a grave mistake.

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She is a different woman now though. Shouldn't I forgive her they way Christ does? She has repented to me and to God now and I should e able to move past it. I just wish I hadn't read those messages it made this so much worse. I struggled with porn, which is not the same as giving your body to someone else, but it is still sexual sin. If it's all the same in gods eyes he should grant me the grace to get past it

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I know how you feel, man. I can't tell you what you should do, or even offer much encouragement, as I've never found a solution to this "problem". All I know is that when that relationship ended and I'd gotten over the initial sadness at the loss, I was relieved that I didn't have to deal with those emotions and that pain anymore (and that she didn't either).

 

It doesn't matter whether you "should" be able to "forgive" her and get over it. All that really matters to both of you is that you can or you can't. If you can't, then the relationship will continue to be painful for both of you. At any rate, whether you can get over it or not, getting married before you do, like IAG said, is a big mistake in my opinion.

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This is a certain type of woman. She's been with a lot of men, lied about her N-count, and is with you for stability. She will cheat on you in the future. This is a classic type of woman that I hear about all the time. She's the girl-version of a PUA. She needs to work it out with some other "testimonial" who has a similar history. It's better to get out of it now, and remember that there are tons of nice women at church who can learn game like what she has. ;)

This isn't to say that some women haven't been taken advantage of, but it sounds like she heard what she wanted to believe. She was not forced, and she knew better.

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She is a different woman now though. Shouldn't I forgive her they way Christ does? She has repented to me and to God now and I should e able to move past it. I just wish I hadn't read those messages it made this so much worse. I struggled with porn, which is not the same as giving your body to someone else, but it is still sexual sin. If it's all the same in gods eyes he should grant me the grace to get past it

No, man, no: she lied  to her fiance about her sexual history. She has not changed.

Do you live in a Bible-belt area? I notice this sort of thing happens a lot in Bible-belt areas.

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Yes God said to forgive but if you are still feeling sick about it take a break from her. Fast and pray without ceasing. Let God take control and if she is still hiding anything it will come out. Make sure she gets tested and checked etc. And if you still love her and can handle her baggage go on and marry her but I personally would like someone who is a virgin waiter like me. You seem like a great guy so just pray pray pray and postpone any wedding plans until you are sure. It will hurt her but if she loves you she will understand if not she's not the one. Also you can make a list. One side anything she does you can live with and the other anything you cant id if one side outweighs the other you know your answer.

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Cut the crap about you "only getting a piece" of her. She's not a PEZ dispenser. No experience can take anything away from anyone; it adds to who people become, and she has become the woman you love right now.

 

It's natural to think "why didn't she wait?" and feel pain and jealousy. But why did you wait? What does sex mean to you? How will sex be different between vigins who spend their wedding night together without struggling with this issue than you who have? Other than being in wedlock, how will sex with you be different from her other experiences? (Hint: all these have a relation to God)

 

It seems like you guys haven't talked about the Facebook thing, so here's some steps you should take.

  1. FInd a private place to talk.
  2. Tell her you read her old Facebook posts. Summarize.
  3. Tell her what you wrote here about how you felt. Separate the feelings you had at that time from her, because, according to you, she's a different person now.
  4. Figure out together how to deal with the pain when it comes up again.

I won't deny that it's scary, but you can fall deeper in love as you learn to understand one another. Or lose her as she/you shut down communications in fear/insecurity.

 

If you love her, talk to her. Trust her. And things — whether it seems like it does or not at that moment — will work out.

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You need to talk about this with her.   only that way will YOU know whether or not you can get past it.   right now you're quietly dealing with it solo -  without the benefit of her interacting with you about that.   whichever way the conversation goes for you, i would think you would have a clearer sense of what the right path is for you with her...  but you owe it to both of you to discuss this in a way that lets you share your own reactions, and embrace or see it for what it is.

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I don't know her personally but, based on your accounts it sounds like she uses sex as a weapon. I'd strongly reconsider marrying this woman as she deceived you in fear of losing her relationship. That's not an acceptable behavior as she is only thinking for herself and not out of love for you. A woman who truly cared would have been completely open with her history and would respect and cherish you enough to give you the complete truth so you can make an accurate assessment of the situation. As it stands, her fabrication does nothing but manipulate emotions and disguise the truth, likely designed to selfishly preserve a relationship that would falter if the truth was exposed(as we're seeing now).

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Cut the crap about you "only getting a piece" of her. She's not a PEZ dispenser. No experience can take anything away from anyone; it adds to who people become, and she has become the woman you love right now.

It's natural to think "why didn't she wait?" and feel pain and jealousy. But why did you wait? What does sex mean to you? How will sex be different between vigins who spend their wedding night together without struggling with this issue....

How can you be so a rude? What he is saying ISN'T crap at all its true feelings and this means a lot to him! It would be the same with her if the shoes were switched! Sex with a non virgin is and will be different! One has experienced this and has given pieces of themselves to others! So the PEZ dispenser analogy is correct, she acted like one! When you have sex with someone pieces of your heart and spirit is with them! Until you really give yourself to God and ask him to make your heart and spirit whole again. You may not know what Christians study but we know. When a virgin gives themself to a non virgin we know that even if a non virgin says "it's okay if you don't have experience I don't care." we know that they truly do in the back of their minds because they know what to do and what not to do. Or if a non virgin says "it's okay I will teach you..." truth is our partners shouldn't have to teach us a thing! We should all be in the dark about what goes on in the bedroom and explore it with our partners to learn what's appropriate and what's not in the bedroom. No i'm not saying non virgins are bad people at all but I really strongly believe non virgins look down on us virgins because we want virgins only and non virgins say we are one minded but no we are open but it's what we prefer! EVERYONE HAS A PREFRENCE! He loves his fiance and if he didn't he would not have stayed with her but because he's a good Godly man (like Boaz) he is asking his fellow waiters and virgins for ADVICE not a SCOLDING. Yes there are virgin that want non virgins for the experience which is A-Ok for them but he is in the category of waiters that are trying to figure out "although I love my fiance dearly and see "A" change, is this really the baggage I want to carry into our marriage?" And also if us virgins were full of crap why do we see lots of non virgins posting how they wish they had waited!? If non virgins don't like the fact that 99.8% of us virgins want a virgin than non virgins can date each other! No big deal! Don't request a virgin if your not willing to allow us to feel the way we do.... CHEATED! And since he read those messages he has the right to think "well dang! Am I with the right girl? Does she feel the same about me? Was she really like this?" And so on!

He should do what his heart desires as long as it's God talking to his heart not him thinking on his own.

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So, you have a woman who loves you and wants to marry you, that is an incredible gift to be thankful for. If you can't be thankful for her, instead of dwelling on her past, then you should let her go, before you hurt her or yourself anymore.

 

I assume she loves and trusts you enough to have given you consent to read her Facebook MESSAGES which are private and only viewable to the account holder, that says a lot in my opinion.

 

And I don't think she is only giving you a piece of herself either, it has always sounded ridiculous to me.

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Did I miss the part where she lied to him? (In regard to Bluey and Amarillo's posts)

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Did I miss the part where she lied to him? (In regard to Bluey and Amarillo's posts)

He used the phrase "that she's confessed to" that implies that he doesn't think she is being truthful. If you'd only slept with three guys, would the phrase " I usually fuck on the first night" be something you'd consider saying, even in private? It's even more suspicious when she claimed it was only done as a coping mechanism for losing her then boyfriend. She's giving off a ton of red flags imo...

 

ETA: I don't have access to the messages obviously but, I'd be irked if the messages read in a tone that is designed to disparage the decision to WTM. She could have easily told her friends she was dating in a manner that she wasn't accustomed to without being vulgar. I view marriage as a partnership, and I wouldn't want a partner who was so reckless with her online (aka never private) postings that could effect my position or image on a job or in the community.

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He used the phrase "that she's confessed to" that implies that he doesn't think she is being truthful. If you'd only slept with three guys, would the phrase " I usually fuck on the first night" be something you'd consider saying, even in private? It's even more suspicious when she claimed it was only done as a coping mechanism for losing her then boyfriend. She's giving off a ton of red flags imo...

 

ETA: I don't have access to the messages obviously but, I'd be irked if the messages read in a tone that is designed to disparage the decision to WTM. She could have easily told her friends she was dating in a manner that she wasn't accustomed to without being vulgar. I view marriage as a partnership, and I wouldn't want a partner who was so reckless with her online (aka never private) postings that could effect my position or image on a job or in the community.

 

Of course he suspects there's more. That goes with the territory. I don't see that FB conversation as proof by any means though. And I don't imagine that in a FB conversation like the one she was having that much consideration went into what she said. But I could see saying something like "usually" to refer to how I'd behaved in 3 relationships anyway. I see why there might be suspicion that she lied, but the confidence with which it's being said that she did is why I posted about it.

 

No one's denying that the FB thing is a shitty reflection on her; starlight admits that and says he's only staying with her because she's changed. I'm not sure how to dispute that point.

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Cut the crap about you "only getting a piece" of her. She's not a PEZ dispenser. No experience can take anything away from anyone; it adds to who people become, and she has become the woman you love right now.

 

Isn't it obvious it's only a metaphor? Yes, she is not a pez dispenser. Yes, she didn't take out a blade, and cut a piece of her flesh prior to intercourse, and give it to the guy.

 

He's just saying (in my assessment) that according to his perspective, that when someone, whether a guy or a girl, has sex with someone else, they are experiencing something that he wants his future bride to only experience with him. So, in this way, it's like giving a piece of yourself away, at least experientially. He wants to be a girl's one and only in this context. Many people prefer this. And some prefer it so strongly that it becomes a deal-breaker. I suggest that people should just be true to themselves about what they want in someone else. 

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No way, the stories don't add up. No logical person would claim that they were accustomed to sleeping with guys on the first date if she a.) tried to have a Christian relationship with her then boyfriend who pressured her for sex and b.) only slept with two men on one night stands solely due to fallout of the aforementioned relationship. I may be wrong but, either way the stories don't add up.

 

Marriage won't fix the underlying issues in the relationship and they need to be addressed before making the commitment.

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The red flags I got were:
 

  • She did it with three guys. (they usually cut their numbers to two or three)
  • She was talking about sex on her facebook, and knew what to look for (which might indicate experience, but reflected more on her reputation with people. It would also attract more male sexual attention.)
  • She blames her ex-boyfriend for "fooling" her into thinking sex was for love. We all were taught, even by kids' shows, that if someone tells you to have sex for love, it's not for love, "do it when you're ready" Bob Lob Law. Unless she has an I.Q. of four and is totally gullible, you think she would have known better. 
  • She had two one night stands. In the 90s, they tried to get us to buy chips by saying "once you pop, you can't stop." But she could stop after two one night stands. Just a weird number... you would think she would keep it up or get into a relationship, serious or non-serious.
  • I assume being pretty cute is partially why he made the exception. If she's in hot territory, she would not be so much screwed-over, she would be getting more what she wanted.

​Then again, I could be totally wrong. I just think she slept with more men than what she's letting-on. It's worth investigating. You can't tell easily with anyone who's been promiscuous, you have to look at the red flags. They're good at building comfort and attraction to get what they want (source: PUA forums).

​

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A good idea if you really want to marry this woman, Pre-Marital conselling. Dr. Laura Schlessinger, a Psycotharipist, says that all couples should have 6 months of Pre Marital conselling, which the consellor will go over important things you need to be aware of before you decide to be wed. You will learn if your girlfriend and you are right for each other for marriage, and you will also learn if you will be able to get over her past. That would be the best thing or anyone who is wanting to get married, past issues or not :)

I hope that helps you. :)

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In all honesty, I have to agree with the majority of responses here. There are a number of red flags evident in her behavior (I don't think I need to point them out again, as they've already been made clear). The fact that you had to view her FB messages in order to see that side of her, would be enough of a source of suspicion for me to call a whole ton of things into question. She presents one side of things where she's the victim and always meant good and then you find out the other side of her (probably closer to her true self). If this isn't evidence enough of her not being trustworthy, than what is? Walking in on her with another guy, after you've tied the not and, for all intents and purposes, given her everything? One of, if not the greatest indicators of future behavior is past behavior. If she could behave so callously in the past, don't put it past her to not do so again. Yes, people can change, but it's very rare and usually not significant or lasting. As much as it might hurt to end things, I'd say you should and begin the healing process. Talk to her, if you feel it's right, necessary, and helpful first and then make your decision. Remember, there are a lot of WTM girls out there who would love and appreciate your having waited AND actually respect you for it (it doesn't seem like this girl does and is merely feeding you the best lie she can think up, hoping she can have her cake and eat it too..just my two cents, even if it is a bit harsh).

See ya on the flipside,

Cyon

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Thank you for all of your inputs. I do think she isn't being truthful about the number, in what is probably just her not wanting to hurt me. If I loved someone and knew it would hurt them I would probably hide the true number too. So I can't blame her there. We've just talked about this a lot already before I read the messages and she got very emotional each time and said she didn't feel good enough for me. I know I have to bring it up but I'm afraid. I'm afraid because I broke her trust by reading her messages when she ave me her password, and I'm afraid to keep bringing this subject up and drive her away. When I'm with her I don't think about these things. It's when we're apart that my mind is bombarded. Even if it is more than 3 guys, I will forgive we and stay with her. I just want the truth no matter how bad it hurts. Nothing is worse than not knowing. She swears it was only her bf and two one nights stands, but if she said that she usually has sex on the first night and prefers one night stands that sounds to me like it had to be more than two. (Or perhaps she was just trying to sound cool? She's never even met the girl she was messaging she's just a girl she met online through some depression helpline site)

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My input

I'd say from my humble opinion on the matter is, well as Ian suggested above to talk to her. This is the woman you're promising to spend the rest of your life with. There shouldn't be anything you can't sit and speak with her about and she you!

There's quite a few "Red flags" that've caught my attention and should yours I think.

First, you mentioned that she had a boyfriend that kinda used her.

That's messed up dude, and if it's true what she's telling you that she then was greatly broken and kinda messed around to deal with the pain. Then she has my sympathy.

But and I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but unless he raped her, she was not totally a victim and you shouldn't feel as though you've gotta "save her".

She made a choice and then made other choices. Was it love, I dunno, but you have to ask yourself do you feel that it's your responsibility to "make her right"?!

And maybe that's part of the struggle you're going up against within yourself.

If so, and I say again if so, don't settle man, wait. It'll be worth it.

I'm glad that she's turned her life around with God's help and your assistance. But only, truly with God's help and her will and determination can she really do this.

I know that right now you're excited and she's excited about the prospects of marriage and starting over. But let me say this, if you don't deal with things from the past, they'll come back to be dealt with in the future.

Finally my second point, if you've gotta read her FB messages to know her true self, not the side she has shown to you. But the side she does to her friends, they've probably known her longer than you have.

Then you don't know her and should not be engaged to marry. Marriage doesn't fix things bro, it is covenant, a promise between a man and woman that love each other. And from what it sounds like she doesn't love you, she talks about things like that about you with her friends during the infatuation period.

I mean during the first month like she mentioned, she usually jumps into the sack with a guy, because this is during that newness, the intrigue of lustful infatuation. And we know women are emotional beings, guys are also, we just try to pretend were not. She wants it sounds like to loved and to have attention, but also she wants and associates love with infatuation and with sex.

And so she admires your modesty and gentlemanly character, but she may not respect you bro. And you've gotta be respected as a man in order to be with her and definitely for her to be your wife.

The above is just me being a "big brother", if I was outta line, I apologize.

But dude, I'm speaking from experience, but you can't change someone. You can't "save her" from herself and make a "good woman" outta her, but my man, there's plenty of good, Christian women looking for a nice, strong character Christian man. Remember that!

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OHH, did she really have the gull to make you feel guilty about reading her Facebook???? Not cool.

Oh yeah, that's why she's lying: "she doesn't want to hurt you." Bullcrap. She's lying because she's manipulative. I would go so far as to say she's psychotic.

She sounds so "different now." Not. You will get duped, but you probably won't listen to any advice on here and just discover following your heart. You will have kids with this woman, and then you'll get cheated on. Is that what you want? Is that what you think you're worth?? Well, that's what you're going to do.

Sorry to be the Ghost of Christmas Future, but you are going to be miserable now.

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She can keep on crying with her hurt pride and crocodile tears, because she is not good enough for you. Don't buy this "crying" junk. People will cry about just about anything, especially on dates.

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Real advice: Make sure you keep reading her Facebook, emails, etc. Make sure she doesn't find out. Make sure you talk about work and whatever else she fills her days with. Make sure you're both really involved in church, to the point it takes all your free-time. Don't let her have male friends, unless you're also friends with them. Don't expect too much sex. Go to PTA meetings with her. Call her during work. And you'll have a shot in hell that your marriage won't fall-apart.

Expect to be complained about all the time. Expect your kids to be used as weapons against you. Expect to be emasculated at every social function you go to, when she's upset. 

They all think, "Oh, she wouldn't do that, though," but they do.

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