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Karen Starr

Men as success objects and the Elephant in the room

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I'm here today to talk about a subject nobody is willing to chat about. The perception on men and what makes a man. One ting I'v noticed here and on many other sites is the list of traits a guy needs in order to be viewed as attractive. 

 

The list is as goes.

Has to be tall or taller than HER

Must have ambition 

Must have a good job

Must dress in style

Must have a perfect hair cut

Only can show weakness if a dog dies or during war films

Must always be confident

Must always be assertive

Make HER laugh

Make HER feel protected

Make HER feel special

Must be romantic

Be nice but not too nice, Never be Needy, Be charming

Must be a take charge guy

Must be strong

 

This all amounts to the guy being successful and why a study when asked if women think most guys are attractive the women said 80% of men are unattractive. I hate to say it but that right there is enough make some men turn into misogynist. In a males perception he is working hard 24/7 to be the best he can be but if he isn't a success object most females ignore him thus creating hatred for the female gender.

 

Now if you compare it to men's list

Don't become overweight. (Chubby is ok)

Stay loyal.

Don't have a witchy personality.

 

Men by nature will always go easy on the female gender. So please stop bashing men for being visual. It's not that men view women as sex object it's the fact that men are designed to reproduce with many women. So just because a guy wants sex doesn't mean he thinks you're a sex object. 

 

 

 

 

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Good share...hmm.. However i think that, well at least for me, women just tend to be more detailed and thus pick out those types of things versus guys... not necessarily we are going by a checklist...like the adjective list that women want in men can br grouped into broader categories like, respectful, in tune with emotions .... those types of behaviors give a good indication of that.. and the mens can be broken into smaller bits like - not being overweight -- taking care of oneself, spends time on hair and looks/appearance, stays fashionable, etc... hope this makes sense!

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Hmmm...I don't really agree with either list, especially that a man's is so short. What I look for most in a man is a humble, quiet, strong integrity. A man who you can tell is a genuine good person just by how he carries himself and how he looks at you and treats other people :).

 

However, it is a natural tendency for a woman to seek out the man who will be able to protect her and that will generally be the most successful men. I don't hate men for being visual....because it's a natural tendency ^_^.

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The majority of men in this world are definitely more picky than that I guarantee you lol however I do agree with the fact that most women would prefer not to marry a lazy bum with no job or purpose in life.

Both genders (whether they're aware of it or not) do carry certain idealized images and notions in their minds regarding the opposite gender.

They will naturally expect the other gender to display certain traits and characteristics based on what society has led them to believe are good qualities to look for in a lifelong partner.

however....

men viewing women as sex objects has much more harmful and dangerous consequences than women viewing men as success objects.

There's nothing wrong with a man looking at a woman and thinking she's hot.

But does it always stop there? Unfortunately no.

In some cases, men will take that seemingly innocent thought about a woman and act on it in the most atrocious ways.

I don't even think I need to get into all those horrifying accounts we hear every day of women getting beaten, raped, and killed (in extreme cases) all because some horny male filled with lust and filthy thoughts could not control himself.

It all starts with a single thought.

You really can't even begin to compare these two notions ;

women = sex objects

men = success objects

they're just not the same. The first one is a lot more severe and has more harmful consequences than the second one.

To even suggest that they are practically the same thing is just.....absurd lol

 

With that being said, I don't like relying on men for things. As a woman, I don't like being viewed as incapable or weak so you will never see me going after a man's net worth or status. I'm not one of those women. I will achieve success on my own.

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I wouldn't compare it to being a sex object, but I can add that is has its own set of problems as a "success" object. I see it often when it comes to dating. It is very very strange but I will add in my 2 cents about it.

 

I have seen women date guys who have either none of those traits or just one and they are extremely lenient on them, to the point of absurdity in my opinion. I mean they will let them get away with anything, even verbal abuse, heck sometimes cheating from what I've seen.

 

But if a man has many of those traits then what they begin to do is make that guy out to be some divine being that rivals Jesus Christ, and I mean they are doing this in their minds. So then if the guy falls short of just one, and I mean just one of those traits they get on his case about it, and even break up with the guy about it. They don't forgive him, or they punish him to insane levels that I do not understand. They build the guy up to be some fantasy and when he fails to live up to that fantasy they punish him for it and I have seen that often. 

 

I distinctly remember a guy saying he had that problem. Girls would make him out to be some epic hero and he just isn't that, he is just a human. So when he dated he downplayed everything and more or less acted opposite of those things, and hiding his success and then when he was in a relationship with the girl, he slowly revealed who he really was. I find the idea stupid that he had to resort to that, but it is to give an idea how pervasive it is, and I have seen that so many times. People need to realize that both men and women are human beings. As a result we are not perfect and will never live up to some idealized version of ourselves in someone's head.

 

That doesn't mean to lower your standards to the dirt, but it does mean that if when you find that awesome human being and they have some flaws, accept that they are human. ^_^

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To even suggest that they are practically the same thing is just.....absurd lol

 

 

I don't think it's absurd and I love the points Karen made. Bravo Karen!

 

Men viewing women as sex objects isn't really the problem, though. It's men being immoral. There's a difference. If a man views a woman as a sex object this doesn't mean he's going to rape or beat anyone... he may just be lusting after women. If he does do something despicable that's because he's a despicable person. I hope you can see that distinction.

 

While it's true that women viewing men as 'success objects' doesn't lead to rape, I'm not really impressed by that point because men and women are different and have different tendencies. Men do have a tendency to view women in a very visual way... but that's the nature of man. If he rapes someone, though, that's because of a choice he made which is just pure evil. 

 

I'll give you an example... a man may go to a beach and take pleasure at looking at all the gorgeous women in bikinis. In this sense he's viewing them as sex objects, yes. Whether it's OK or not for a guy to look at women at the beach when he's single is another issue which I'm not discussing. The point is that what makes a man do something like rape a woman is not because he's viewing her as a sex object; it's because he's an evil human being. A man CAN NOT use his natural tendencies as an excuse for doing something evil. If he does do something evil it's a choice he made that is independent of viewing women as sex objects.

 

And to varying degrees... all men view women as sex objects. If you don't agree with this, then why is it that men prefer to date/marry beautiful women over women they are less attracted to? I'm just trying to be objective here. Sex appeal is part of the human condition. In this sense, women also view men as sex objects: Though less so.

 

Men think about sex constantly (even while sleeping). Some men are better at controlling their thoughts than others. Some men make more of an effort than others. But there is a huge biological push in this direction no matter how masterful the man is.

 

From my perspective, I take away from what Karen is saying, is that neither men or women are fair when it comes to seeking a mate. Indeed, I don't believe there is any fairness in pursuing a mate. By definition it is not fair and why should it be? In the end we are pursuing what makes sense for us. We are the ones that create our own criteria and I can definitely tell you it's not based on fairness or altruism. It's based on what makes us happy, isn't it? If it wasn't we'd marry just anyone. 

 

Let's be clear: We are not just pursuing a person that would be a good father or mother to our children. Our criteria is much more far reaching than that. We desire our own fulfillment too.

 

That said, I'd agree there are criteria that people can have that will end up hurting them, others, and their future offspring. And we must be careful about that and choose wisely. But at the end of the day, there's no fairness in pursuing a mate: We're just going after what makes sense to us.

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Not all men think about is sex we could be thinking about a woman we like and never be thinking about how to have sex with them so that's where i disagree

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