Married Waiters
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Everything posted by ian

  1. I was never open about it - yes with my absolute very closest friends - but not open about it. Partly it was me just wanting to protect my choice and not have it (potentially) commented on negatively by friends; and partly out of uncertainty about how it would be perceived. I did not share with family - that seemed awkward. We're a classic WASP family so that sort of sex discussion would NEVER have come out LOL. On the other hand - and I've said this on occasion here before - it's a different time and age obviously... and I applaud all of you for stating your decision and your choice however you want (or don't). You all exhibit strength and conviction - even when you are struggling with it! - and I am most enthusiastic about how you all deal with it. Like JM above and plenty of others' advice, how you handle it in a dating relationship of course may vary. Some of you upfront; some of you later; but that's about the the rhythm of finding the right "fit" (as JM comments) for that detail :-).
  2. Another gay waiter ;)

    I like the camera avatar/name fstop :-) welcome - a whole bunch of support and friendly people -
  3. WTM and over 30

    well i'm not WTM and over 30 (i married at 26)... but I'm faithful and over 30 and still very much a one-woman guy after more than 20 years of marriage :-)
  4. hi ohmercyme... WTM or deciding NOT to WTM any longer... well I think they're both really challenging decisions and choices no matter where you are in life or in stage of relationship. I guess the only thing that I can add to this for you is that the magic of being human is every moment is filled with free will and choice. The thing my parents asked me to do always was to make willful choices - not fall into things almost by default or be desperation. While they weren't addressing sex in that sentence ( the truth is I think they were addressing drugs in that conversation )... the sentiment applies to literally everything. They were telling me - and I would say the same to you - to be conscious and deliberate in any action that doesn't have a reset or do-over button. Alcohol, drugs, sex, job choices, friendships and relationships, running a marathon, skydiving, yoga. It literally doesn't matter what we're talking about... just be purposeful in your choice. Sure I admit... I would hope that you might pause again and maybe think again about what or why you were WTM in the first place and if those same feelings were still there about waiting for your future spouse, and giving them the ultimate gift, and only being with one person and all that... but i'm not you, and you get to make the choice. So do it with heart, do it with intention, do it because it is right relationship step and person for you - and only you can know that it was right or if you feel any guilt about it. i know it's scary either way - honest - but when i'm in those moments (and I still am by the way - even at 4X years old!) - I still go back to the point my parents made about willful and on purpose choices. Choose to be something... vs choosing to not be something... one is active... one is reactive... hope that provides a little extra stuff for you to think about - and I hope i wasn't rude or pushy about it for you - ian
  5. Christian man 51 yo

    hey us over-40s have to stick together LOL. so what brought you here John? hopefully the forum and the community you find here will be a great find for you, as it has for so many!
  6. Christian man 51 yo

    i like the trio of your description! Welcome to the site! I hope you've found already the voices of similar perspectives and choices here - chime in where you like for sure, and share when you like! It's a good - and vocal - crowd.
  7. ANOTHER Gay One?

    waiting is waiting polaris :-) welcome to those who have high expectations about the future :-)
  8. Out and proud

    welcome aboard. you will find an abundance of positive and hopeful support around you here.
  9. it's funny - but all the advice on here (and I was going to add similar funny enough!) centers on spreading out affection. often, but in smaller ways, vs the build-up of one big hot and intense session. Shaneb's comments about how he & his husband drew a clear line about clothing for instance - a big help - and the constancy of affection and touch vs making it an outing all in itself (puts a lot of pressure that ineveitably looks for an outlet...). And I have to rally behind LTD's comments. For me, never really being in love was way worse than ever thinking about dying a virgin (if it came to one of those silly question/choices)! And my last add here is that my eventual wife and I were long distance for a year. We saw each other as often as we could (maybe once a month), a million phone calls of course, and admittedly, when we would arrive at each other's apartment after a month had gone by or whatever, there was that desperate feel of wanting to get hot and heavy ASAP... so we gradually figured out one little (silly) trick at least to take the edge off the see each other and immeidatley make out syndrome... we would meet each other in public when we first arrived. I'm sure that sounds crazy, but it meant that we were appropriately affectionate but not full-on groping LOL. We would meet at a restaurant with friends (like Shaneb was saying, spending time being together but with others), or at a game or something, or straight to the movies. It was a small trick, but it meant that we could kinda get over the initial thrill of seeing each other again without immediately succumbing to the sexual and affectionate feelings that immediately arose... Probably the lesson here - across all of us (and Sally's PM comments to you) - is that you have to work together to find your "tricks" - the ways you can maintain what is important to each other about the promises you make, and the ways you can help yourselves from putting yourself in easy ways to create problems.......
  10. 23- SINGLE Christian Military man

    Hi armycop. you have a wonderful spirit and attitude already evident in your self-introduction! yeah you probably are surrounded with a few more daily pushes at remaining a virgin and committed to WTM, but that's what this site is here for! To help fill in the weak moments and the daily or weekly encouragements and reminders that there are plenty of people out there just like you. Welcome. Don't fret about the other stuff along the way. You are exactly where you are today bec it's where you're supposed to be :-). Glad you connected to the site and joined to participate.
  11. 26 years of waiting and counting...

    welcome. I'm with envincebal - you deserve a double dose of encouragement by having arrived here with our choice, but also having arrived here and having publicly debated your choice among your work friends! I will say you have my respect moreso because I never had to join that - just among my closest friends :-) I'm a forties married guy - so I'm the other spectrum on here - a successful waiter - so welcome to the site.
  12. I concur with everyone. Sophie you seem utterly genuine and clever and bright - possibly the three most attractive qualities in any person. :-) Skip the superficial just for a split second... the ability to be yourself is pretty darn magnetic ... think about the people you respond to... whether they themselves are winning beauty pageants or not... i love surrounding myself with the types who are just themselves and happy enough to share the good, the bad, the polished and the messy. I am sure you are truly lovely :-) and as for doubts on waiting. i suppose the truth is... those doubts will be there until the very moment - and I mean until the very moment. But here's the thing - you went into this knowing who you are and who you wanted to be - for everyone else, not just for your future husband, but for everyone else you share this decision with, or simply those who observe what kind of person you are. For religious or personal reasons. For public sharing or just private reflection. It's one of your definers now. Just as it is for everyoneld on this site... and that includes those who didn't wait initially, but made a different choice and now are waiting. I can only say... that this site exists to help you in those quieter, dark of night, weaker moments... when sometimes... it just feels... like maybe... you should give up. Ask the site in one of those moments... I guarantee you someone is awake (thanks to Mike, we're worldwide!), and someone will respond, and you will remember why you made the decision in the first place.
  13. and like Sally - happy to PM on this if it helps.
  14. Hi Nick. That's a handful for sure. Having been like you - committed to waiting - and then having eventually met my wife (who was not a waiter, but was pretty limited), I would just offer a few thoughts to you. I'm certain others will want to chime in as well, but since I lived a version of it, I thought i would add a married voice to this for you. At the core of what he's saying - i know you hear it in there - is that he wants you to be ready/capable/successful when you really do meet the person that absolutely hits you square in the heart as The One... and he's simply trying to read ahead to the likelihood that the woman you're likely to be attracted to... may in fact be someone who is attractive to many others as well (and he wants you to be able to "win" if you feel it). That's a really big dad sentiment i have to say. I feel it (I have 3 daughters - oldest is in college)... i mean i feel the protection/love that you want whatever will make your child happiest to be within their means, their grasp, their heart's capability. It's honestly what you want most. But I can hear the way the words sound... bec I would have felt the same way you did. You know as well as any of us do or did... "practise" does not make "perfect." "practice" does not guarantee "success." nor does it make you more or less of a competitor or suitor (old fashioned word!) for love. Can I ask you a question though? Have you had other girlfriends? Anyone you've actually said I Love You to? If you have, have you talked about those with your dad too? I never really talked about any of that stuff with my parents when I was in my twenties. I never acknowledged being in love, I barely acknowledged having a girlfriend. Somehow it seemed awkward to me to talk about that stuff with my parents (although my mom would periodically try to probe into my "dating life"). And then one day I really was in love and with a woman who was in love with me and we decided to get married. And for a little while after i told my parents, there was a bit of the line of questioning that you got above. The quiet concerns of was I really ready for it. Your version is will the woman of your heart be ready to see you for how wonderful you are... when others might be putting more game and spin on it. I for one would tell you that while I angsted over it - as part of everyone's personal concerns of how their dating life is or isn't going - and then I began to understand that while attraction was good of course (and temperature raising!) - harmony and rhythm were gobs more important. I'm sure you get the point on "harmony"; my comment on "rhythm" is the tempo of disclosure, of transparency, of laughter, of vulnerability, of chemistry... that's part of how you know you're in a real relationship bec the person you're with is tracking or pushing your rhtyhm in synch. (that probably sounds kinda silly! but think about even your guy relationships or just friends relationship - they all have a rhythm to them, who's up who's down when you're both on a fun tear etc). In the end, I read your posts and I hear someone who will be ready when the person is there - who is mature enough to know who he is - and who is outward-enough to want to care for someone. I think you have all the "practice" you need... and like all things... it's rare that the 1st try is the one that works... (which is also somewhere in your dad's comments). I'm sure it's bec i'm a dad - but I think your dad's comments were said from love and care - maybe with a bit of insensitivity to your personal code and your maturity about love and relationships - and probably not as sympathetic to your intentions as you would like - but... I do kinda think it was from love. :-)
  15. 26 male "super-virgin" still waiting

    welcome lonely knight. i know this community will rally around with you, as it already has. I'm a successful waiter - I was a virgin when I got married at 26. (i'm in my forties these days).
  16. Hi

    welcome Nick :-) i think you'll continue to find this to be a healthy place filled with eager and supportive friends.
  17. guys it's not me - I came in being a married guy :-) - and no, my wife isn't here... it's another pair. :-)
  18. Soy milk harmful for men?

    Here's the article - from Men's Health - http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects LIKE EVERYTHING... I get the sense that this is a case for moderation and ensuring a mix of options on any given nutritional point, not all eggs (so to speak) in one basket... but at least you have the article here to consider for your own situation!
  19. Hey, I'm Shane

    the other thing you add to the mix... someone who successfully waited into his early or mid-30s before becoming intimate with another person :-) that alone should be added inspiration!
  20. One additional note guys: I got lucky. There are plenty of examples where good people go into it just as I did, and things don't end up the way you hope or the way you work at it. And it's not a reflection on anything in that case but the other person - as long as you bring our own integrity to bear about working at it. I hasten to mention this because honestly... I know wonderful couples who are friends of ours who have had their struggles, and in a few instances they have also had the situation become something unrecognizable from where they started or how they started. And in those instances, the people who experience and move past those situations and retain their faith in the rightness of being married - just wanting to find their real match for being married - are the ones who really exhibit the strength it can sometimes take to create the trusting, caring, loving atmosphere that I know I describe for my marriage, and that many so many of you articulate as what you hope for. There can be negativity in those situations - but God willing, there is not negativity in the person as they move on... to live their faith and live their faith in marriage with the one they were truly meant to be with. :-)
  21. 27 year old gay male

    Hi Blaine! welcome to the forum - hopefully you've been already quietly reading along and gaining a sense of what's here, and who's here! ian
  22. I have loved being married every moment of being married. I have loved my wife, I have been in love with my wife, I have been exasperated with my wife, I have acted like a child in front of my wife, I have been surprisingly romantic and unexpected with my wife and I have been completely overlooking and forgetful with my wife. And I have loved every moment of every day with her by my side, in my bed, at the breakfast table, on the phone, and simply with me even when I felt alone. Everyone does have their own version of this story and of this State of Being :-). The fights are over the stuff they are always over - whether you are talking about fights with your brothers & sisters, with your parents, with you neighbors, with a roommate, or with your husband/wife - it's always the same. Like CFox laughed, all issues foreign and domestic... but they do tend to clump... and it's a good chunk of what "pre-marital counseling" is usually about with a minister or priest before your wedding (if you are married in a church or by clergy of your faith). I recall the minister who married us sitting us down and saying we would spend our lives together having only 3 arguments... so if we were smart we would get ahead of the curve :-) The 3 arguments are: (1) money (2) family (each other's families, and the family you potentially eventually raise together) (3) "me" time vs "together" time (this includes leisure time and household chores, as well as professional concerns). Everything else - his words - would boil down to a variation on a theme. ** You'll readily notice that other things are not on that list, eg religion, sex or politics. Primarily because in theory, you have already communicated bunches on those things, and are still standing before him/her prepared to marry each other! His point to us in those sessions was if you take the time upfront to figure out how to safely say to each other I disagree with xyz, or I want something different on xyz, and then obviously listen with respect, respond with thoughtfulness, take action together, sometimes you compromise, sometimes you give on this and take on that, etc... then navigating these arguments in the future would just be part of your rhythm together, and would never roll up into some bigger argument or bigger issue. And the most important point of course was about not letting stuff build up... sometimes swallowing something in the moment is fine... but not letting it all get held down and not expressed isn't right. So all that advice was great, and here I am 20+ years later... and we have had a few really bad arguments along the way... but I have never slept on the couch (nor has she LOL), we have never been violent or hit each other or any of those other horrible things that sometimes happen to people, we have never used sex as a weapon, and we have never forgotten even in the heat of a bad moment that I always love you i just sometimes don't like you very much :-). I know that probably sounds kinda trite - but it's exactly the way we feel, and we have shared that stuff openly with our kids bec we don't want them to be afraid of some dire consequence because mom+dad are disagreeing about something and we want them to learn how to handle disagreements in the future with their friends, etc. For me, marriage has been the best i could imagine because I married someone who respects that sometimes I need space, but for me that means I just want quiet - it doesn't mean i have to get away or that I don't want her near me. I married someone that I cannot wait to see when she gets off an airplane from being away. I married someone that I share the household chores with - most of the time happily LOL. I've addressed this one other point along the way as well - marrying someone does not mean you have on-demand sex as part of the bargain... I'm chuckling at this because like romance and attraction and love (the items CFox brought up in his post above), there is a cycle as well when you're married. "Life" has a way of getting in the way sometimes... and the hard work of marriage is always re-grounding yourself and bringing yourself back to North Star with your husband/wife... reminding them just how lucky you feel every day to be with them, the little extra touches and steps you do to remind them that you are insanely attracted to them, the love affection and romance you act on to remind yourselves that you really are making love - not just having sex. I find that after 20+ years, those are the issues we work at hardest - sometimes very successfully, sometimes less so - and that's the stuff I think that we really "work at". I hope that throws some perspective on the fire, and answers bits of your question - I would hate to leave this discussion as if marriage is one of those "living arrangement" decisions that is practical and sexual... (which parenthetically is why I am very against couples living together before marriage) because it makes a bit of a sham of what marriage is really fully about... all the stuff those who are religious will readily cite... becoming one with another person, "we" not "I", procreation, etc etc. Marriage is more than the living arrangement... and so as a result, yes it has practical moments (PLENTY of them LOL), but it also... if you work at it... has daily magic. My wife is my inspiration and my aspiration and my perspiration (HAHA). She finishes my thoughts, she knows what I like in my coffee, she knows when I'm crabby, she knows when i'm the only one who can help, and she knows that I would never want to be anywhere else except on the right hand side of the bed lying next to her.
  23. interview

    Wow. I loved your interview/article. Thought-provoking. Questioning. Soulful. Mature in action and thank you for sharing your own insecurities about it all - esp not being to really find a role model or even a thought leader role model easily. You & Dave must be quite the couple. Strengthened of course by your resolve to wait (WUM!) and by the insecurities you unabashedly share about awkward times of coming together at first (all of us who are married or have been sexually active know those feelings all too well!~). I have to say... your interview stands on its own quite well - regardless of reading it knowing that it is a married gay couple that is the subject! I would have said all the same things as a married straight couple! :-) ian
  24. Sex God

    no - but now I want to find it!
  25. Thoughts about Women Crying

    poetic... and true :-) I personally love being knight in rusty armor :-) no one hurts the people I love!