Married Waiters
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Everything posted by ian

  1. hi Lombardia - I think your story is real and raw - and i applaud your candor and honesty for sharing your background and for sharing your positive outlook about your decision. :-) welcome to a great place for spreading that and being supported by others who share that outlook :-).
  2. Greetings :)

    Welcome Eugene. Straight to transparency! I like it :-) I think you will find this to be a true pleasure and great challenge, support, empathy, smarts, and just a good community. I'm the other end of the journey so to speak... I'm a successful waiter - married a long time, 3 kids, etc :-)
  3. Toilet Seat

    My Mom swore she would teach my brother & I to always close the lid (thank you Stiggy!) because SOMEDAY we would have a girl who appreciated that :-)
  4. LTD... this is one of those moments we ALL need to remember: "you're waiting? wow i actually think that's sexy." BECAUSE IT IS SEXY. :-) (ok and tantalizing LOL) but you also know this is where RESOLVE stands. good choices and good intentions have been broken by the gentle allure of a challenge... plenty of times in reverse (men going after women). Perhaps implore her to be as helpful to the cause as you are committed to your choice. there are ways to be affectionate obviously with each other without crossing whatever line you draw... the trick... of course... is remaining SEXY... AND COMMITTED. of course... that's the trick of marriage too :-) and i highly recommend that... later!
  5. New member of wtm =)

    welcome. you will find a ton of like-minded people, with a dizzying array of backgrounds, faiths or belief systems, and personal stories, all of whom aspire to the same value and ideal of waiting to be complete with their future husband or wife. :-)
  6. I have to say i saw that article and was disappointed - as much for the publicizing of it, as the report itself (and the fact that his mom knows that was... very.... odd!).
  7. Political Science. And then a business degree... Politics... and persuasion LOL.
  8. oh - and by the way - MONEY and how you handle it together - is without a doubt one of the biggest future argument points if you don't figure out upfront and easily how to trust each other, how to communicate about it, how you manage it and handle the bills and savings and Big Purchases and charitable giving and mad money lunches and fun and entertainment. Everyone tells you that - secular or religious leaders all talk about it - and often they simply hold that at the how many bank accounts do you have level or who manages the bills level (often, one person is more comfortable with #'s and managing money than the other). My suggestion is that you figure out the trust path on is it ok if i buy a new outfit, is it ok if i buy expensive dinner, is it ok if i plan our vacation, is it ok if I give to that charity, is it ok if i buy you a present every week, is it ok if I manage the grocery bill low so we can save, is it ok if you don't literally know this instant how much I have in my account or in my wallet or how much i spent on that new shirt you just saw me in, etc etc. Trust in money is about communicating - but it's also about figuring out what you don't need to communicate about - it's just "ok" :-).
  9. MM: you bring one additional point that I failed to comment on in my real-world example... "allowances". We never bought into that idea. Perhaps we watched "I Love Lucy" too many times as kids but the whole idea that "The Wife" dealt with some house allowance and had to squeeeezze out anything for herself seemed beyond absurd to us. Two accounts gave us the means/method to never have to sit and have one of us "ask" for an "allowance." That's what i meant about two accounts sort of giving the permission slip - once we had dealt with how much we wanted to be putting away for savings (1st to buy a house, later to save for kids' college educations, and of course 401K/retirement type stuff) - aside from monthly living expenses - the rest was a bit of free play... as it should be. We have always trusted each other to not be utterly capricious and silly with money - so that means not once - and I mean it not once - in the 20+ yrs of being married have I raised an eyebrow at something she bought, nor has she about what I bought. And in those years, there have times when I made more money and times when she made more money, and times when she was not working and a time or two when I was not working... Trust is absolutely the entry point here... and trust shows itself not just in freedom to spend... but in knowing that your other half would never do something utterly and completely ludicrous with money.
  10. Historically, one account took the mortgage and basic utilities (or the rent, before we owned a home); and the other account took most of the other bills like groceries, insurance, credit card spending etc. When we were first married, we made about the same $$, and we knew how much our typical budget was every month so we knew more or less to divide the bills. Over time, our respective salaries of course have changed, and now we basically pay all the bills from one salary, and use the other one to save for college tuitions for the kids (gulp!) and vacation spending or big home purchases (like a new BBQ grill). The truth is we talk about money as much as we would whether we had one account or two or five, but the difference is for "mad money" stuff - lunch money or I saw something at Target, or she wanted to buy me a surprise - we don't have to care or worry or think about it... Oh and last thing - yes over time - we have also grown in the # of accounts. We each have our checking accounts, but then there is a savings account, as well as college savings account. I will say... it gets complicated! but... the foundation is we talk about money easily and without fear of that's mine no that's yours routine. I don't think even one time in our marriage did we ever have that sort of discussion because like Naturally says... what's hers is mine and what's mine is hers. :-)
  11. well i can only relate our experience: my wife & I have always had separate accounts our whole married life, but (and I suppose this is the silly point), we can both sign on each other's accounts and of course can look at the account and all that stuff. I have NO IDEA (laughing at myself) why we never combined, but we didn't... and it hasn't ever "cost us" anything in fees, and i suppose it's easier to manage the account from an individual's perspective (how much money is in there, do I have enough if i write this check or get this money from the ATM etc)... anyway - for what it's worth. and I think the grand scheme of things... it has proven to be something that didn't add to the financial discussions that happen from time to time :-)
  12. Unrealistic Ideals

    with a vague glancing blow at biblical reference... a little bit of salt... can go a long way to seasoning the whole. :-) yes. I believe the few(er) can and do make a difference. yes. I believe that one 50-year old man in california who is now married with kids and has a big heart and big faith and once upon a time was a waiter can make a difference. and I believe that everyone on here has an yearning and burning desire to participate in making a difference. And while pop entertainment culture romanticizes the sexually active more than the sexually resolved... it makes no difference to me what my belief was or what I advocate for today. :-) Be the Salt.
  13. Boring Job

    Several thoughts for you... ranging from the inanely practical to the insanely idealistic... PS both are HIGHLY important :-)... and am hopeful that some of these which are truly just my own personal experiences will speak to your question: First: don't undervalue good benefits, flexibility to accomplish the bigger personal goals and the comfort of being able to do a good job (without straining per se). Second: never get used to being able to do a good job (without straining) LOL. Stabler, I'm a firm believer that God is constantly asking and expecting you to "stretch"! That striving - is a trait and a condition - I think we all live more comfortably in as Christians and as people oriented to doing for others, achieving, caring, etc. Third: I had a very smart mentor early in my career tell me that that job ( that I shared with him as a colleague) was literlaly only my first career... that I should easily expect to have at least half a dozen solid careers in my life! That advice alone has colored my openness and my seeking of new opportunities over time. Fourth: I have a professional view that no matter what level you are or what type of work you do... Year 1 is new and exciting, Year 2 is the year you get to do it better because you understand the rhythm, Year 3 is when you get to be the expert, and the itch begins... and by Year 4 you should be either gone or reinventing it completely. :-) Fifth: I have used that "itch" to reinvent myself, my opportunities, my experience, my exposure to the world and to people every time. Counting somewhat loosely... I am currently on my 8th career in working now 25yrs post-university. Sixth: because i KNOW there is an inevitable "itch" and search process for The Next Thing... I've been more comfortable in jobs that were either low-strain (or potentially "boring") or "not right". I mean "comfortable" in the sense that I conecntrated on figuring out what the story I would tell about that job, the people who influenced me, what I learned, what I was able to do or where I was able to go... and then started to move on. Anecdotes aside... I read your note... and having read your posts and your perspective on life through those posts, and my sense of you is.... that like a few of the others above me here on this thread... I think I vote that, while not jeopardizing your current job or status there... it may in fact be time to look a bit more directly... 3 yrs of being "in neutral" to get through school is a long wait... as long as you preserve all that you are trying to achieve along the way. You can certainly last 3 more years... but... you never know Stabler... there may be a wait to change... and still balance the 3 years :-) and you won't know... till you stretch and strain a little :-). My two cents' worth (well... more than that but hopefully ok)... ian
  14. My one biggest piece of advice on honeymoons: if there's way you can afford it... take a 2-week honeymoon. Week 1 is unwinding after what will have been both the most stressful and the most celebratory event no matter how big or small your wedding is.... Week 2 is your vacation. Take it to full advantage.
  15. We dated for more than 2 yrs... and were engaged for 8 months... partly for wedding planning stuff - it was a pretty good sized wedding - but also to navigate when we could secure the church, when we could navigate a move (we weren't living in the same city at the time), and just a rough sense of what it takes to plan all those details and stuff. My only added comment or consideration for all of you is... the longer the engagement... the more every decision gets revisited, rescrutinized etc... and USUALLY... that's not a helpful healthy process LOL :-)
  16. i love that you took this on as a little debate-in-masquerade form!! and very strong all your observations. good focus group :-) perhaps the best piece of it all... it didn't seem to shake your own thinking and value you place on WTM. :-)
  17. RYB you bring up an interesting point here... first loves are indeed the hard ones... because you simply don't know how the boundaries work, do you/does he/she want boundaries... how do you talk about and respect boundaries... etc. what happens when you're in the heat... do you know how to appropriately slow down or stop.... yes it's all part of growing up and growing into adult relationships vs crushes and all that... but it IS definitely the trickiest part... allowing your affections and a bit of passion... asserting your desire to wait... everyone likely comes to a moment where they have the chance... or they very consciously and deliberately stop it from getting tooooo close. sometimes that chance is early - and casual, eg a hookup gone too far - sometimes its midway on a relationship where the comfort with each other begins to outstrip the brakes - and sometimes it's at that odd moment between engagement and actual marriage... no matter where that chance occurs... it requires strength and confidence and support. :-)
  18. EB: I guarantee you won't miss the target :-)
  19. Nellek - I have been holding back on responding here... trying to figure out for me what I thought ultimately your question really was... and how I could add without literally responding to the challenge question of "if it's real relationship, you should sleep together before you get married, in order to know for sure." And then it hit me... what I wanted to share with you... if only to offer a perspective that wasn't literally about your question. For me, my wife is literally the only woman i ever even thought about spending my life with. Yes, I admitted to very heavy crushes with three other women, including one in high school, one in college, one in grad school. I said I love you to two other women (both in college). With the women I said ILY to... I knew there was a part of me that wanted to have sex... but I never thought that would reassure me or prove to me or to her that we should think about more of a relationship (meaning marriage or not). I never put those two things together. For me, sex was, and is, making love. Who I want to make love with has of course been led by my religious upbringing and values, but in the heat of a romance and love affair, making love comes quickly to mind :-). So then who I want to make love with is about expressing my love and intimacy with a woman. Yes for me, I only wanted to express that within marriage, but again, the operative word was "expression" - not "compatibility", not "improving my chances of staying together". I honestly never entertained the thought that I wouldn't be sexual compatible with my wife... it's not like we didn't kiss and touch each other enough to know did it make us excited at the prospect of more and how it might someday someday someday feel. But I honestly never thought twice about it. For me... moving to a sexual relationship was a jump-up - yes it came with marriage for us, and yes for plenty of other people it happens without marriage. but it was a jump-UP... it wasn't a proof point; it wasn't an assurance point that maybe we could go onto another relationship level after clearing that hurdle. So... I know you've changed your mind... and that is entirely your choice your free will! that's what God has given each of us as human beings! you just have to figure out which is primary for you... testing the next stage of the relationship, or working the relationship as it is right now with your GF... if she wants to keep waiting, then like everyone else has pointed out you have a choice to make ("keep" or "toss" so to speak)... and if she like you is thinking about not waiting too... well then maybe yo uhave your answer... but only you know what the right answer is for you and for your GF :-) I think everyone else here may yes... vote for waiting... but I support your opportunity to choose. I support it as your friend, as your friend in Christ. I might urge you to take a particular choice... but in the end, staying open, accepting, supporting and forgiving and loving is what we're here to do with and for each other. Bless you for asking the question of everyone... and I hope that you are as thoughtful in your eventual discussion with your GF as you have been in asking the question here and hearing everyone's thoughts. :-)
  20. Sometimes I wonder...

    All I have to say... is where were all of you 25yrs ago when I was trying to be a guy virgin and having moments of self-doubt and struggle!!! :-) Bless all of you for all that you give each other - that includes the occasional challenge, the occasional push to defend, the frequent notes of empathy and support. It's how we all grow. Keamo... welcome to the site. You are here for a reason :-)
  21. The truth is... we all want it all. And yet we are all as human as the people we eventually take on in our lives - short-term or longterm, friend or love, forever more as our husband or wife. And with that humanity comes trade-offs, openness, acceptance, forgiveness and optimism if we can muster it. JM's question is provocative yes - as are most of life's choices! and I guess for me, what it reminds me of, is that i love with my heart, I live with my spirit, i embrace with my soul, I seize opportunity with what I have, and I afford what I can afford! And most of all what i wanted to afford was the woman to stand by me, with me, for me, ahead of me, as part of me. The rest that came along with it... lifestyles, professional choices, success or merely getting-by... well... those are up to me to figure out, deal with, make the most of, and savor for what they are... whatever they are. I have been personally extremely blessed and fortunate... so I also take responsibility for not forgetting that, and sharing wherever I can. :-)
  22. i think you guys are evidence enough of this point... a discussion like this would have been unlikely at best 20yrs ago!
  23. I highly recommend it. :-) or at least every other week.... it goes toward effort... and sometimes that really carries a lot of good sentiment with it :-)
  24. Living at Home

    Guys... i know i've mentioned The Art of Manliness blog site before... there was an article today on this very topic... and I thought I would offer up a link for added perspective/advice about it! I'm sure those of you who are living with your parents are incredibly on this... just thought I would reinforce for you - good stuff and smart stuff. http://artofmanliness.com/2012/06/27/a-mans-guide-to-moving-back-in-with-his-parents-while-maintaining-at-least-a-little-dignity/?utm_source=Daily+Subscribers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3e86b6a4c7-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN/
  25. I have to agree with JM about the difference between the rituals of being a Christian and the free will choices of being a Christian in the every days. Truth is it's hard to match all things together... we're human... we make mistakes, we say the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person sometimes... we make the wrong choice in the moment and act selfishly or pleasure-seeking vs doing-unto-others. I'm not offering a defense for anyone - including myself - but living the life every day can often be different than going through the rituals of church, and holy days, and what-not. There are those who are WTM and do not really belong to a church, synagogue, temple, mosque or place of worship or religious community; there are those who are WTM and belong but attend and participate largely only on holy days and associated big events; there are those who are WTM and are very immersed in the faith of their religion as well as the outwardly practices... and there are also those who are doing any or all of those things and are NOT WTM - as you point out. All you get to "control" though... is who you are and to the very best you can what you do, where you do it and who you do it with... Act the way you hope others do or will; act for your own integrity; act to model good behavior for those you influence or teach. :-) As JM concluded above... waiting was indeed better for me all the way around, regardless of what others were or were not doing (or what others thought I was or wasn't doing!).