Married Waiters
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Everything posted by ian

  1. well said Jegsy! :-)
  2. wow. i can follow the logic i suppose! and yet... somehow that doesn't seem more or less likely than divorce among the rest of the population does it? I mean... evangelical Christians would also like be very predisposed to divorce not being an option wouldn't they? your question though is an intriguing one... does WTM potentially "compel" people to rush into marriage in order to become sexually active. I suspect a great # of people here on the forum would say a resounding no... as they are themselves evidence of waiting for the right person. There are a few of us on here - including you Shane! - who waited til right person not til we couldn't take it any longer (LOL). But... I think the hypothesis COULD have some truth in it.... or perhaps the truth is most visibly in seen in young couples who have been together since they were in school.... and so have been together for enough years where the readiness is there, but also the sense of having developed a certainty about their relationship over those years! vs someone who has dated several different people and finds themselves into their twenties etc. I wonder if the statistic you're reading remarks on the ages and/or # of relationships those marriage partners had - i'm not suggesting older is better per se and i'm not suggesting that more relationships is better per se.... but I wonder if perhaps those marriages that are "rushed" are among couples who literally have been together their whole lives, and are young(er)? i'm sure the community will have thoughts - i just thought i would toss a few added questions into this thread from you, Shane. - ian
  3. Hi new here.

    and from sunny california :-)
  4. What is your career?

    I am in marketing. A lifelong career of advertising and commercials, of the internet and social media, of promotions and sports and entertainment. of new products and been-around-a-long-time things. and i have loved (virtually) every minute of it so far. :-)
  5. I feel your pain with your ex-wife's cheating and ultimately wanting a divorce... and being a young guy, I can imagine that really hitting hard. But I know you are not the same guy you were 10 years ago when you married. And it doesn't seem from anything you wrote that you're just in it for the sex! So Kailey has a point - you may be feeling some anxiety about various things - and maybe just a calming ear would help you settle down a bit about feeling the worries... I'm certain that when you consider how you've come to grow in your relationship with your fiancee - versus simply continuing to date - you'll trust that the relationship and making love all come together beautifully for the right reason and in the right context :-) One last question... have you shared any of that with your fiancee? She's certainly aware of your ex and your divorce... and I assume you've shared about having lost your virginity before that and wishing otherwise... she might be the one person in particular to help you see the good of the next step without wearing down on the anxiety :-).
  6. I would ask maybe this question of some of you: have you had the opportunity to do recreational drugs? have you had the opportunity to drink or drink too much? I know many if not all of you will shut these down quickly in terms - that you don't approve or have tolerance for drug-users or heavy drinking... but I ask those questions because they are somewhat relatable to the question of having had the opportunity to have sex and making your choice. I agree with IAG - if you WANTED to have sex, there is no doubt that you could make that happen one drunken evening without having to try too hard - and I'm not even addressing those of you who have relationships with those who are not committed to waiting. But I know for me... there was a "party" when I was in high school... drugs prevalent in one corner, and the offer made to me to join in. I knew ahead of time that there would be that moment likely at that party - where many of my friends were - and I also knew (with a bit of anxiety) what i wanted to do. So I was a brave guy, stood by my intention, and "passed" and walked away from that moment entering a different part of the party. One or two people commented, but mostly on the fact that I hadn't, not in a exclusionary sort of voice. All i know is that I felt successful in that moment > I had known what i wanted to do (or not do), and I had stayed on course, and I had not created some social conflict over it! I think the truth is that all of you who feel in your hearts that waiting is the right thing and who are in fact virgins... you'll be able to hold that line quite easily until you're tested by a real relationship that grows... not the drunken encounter... a real relationship that grows and eventually asks you whether or not you want to cross certain physical lines. Having said alllll that... I confess that I felt Matthew's "wish" most of my dating life! I wanted to be wanted! I wanted to be "asked" to have sex... to be desired! In retrospect it seems a funny thing to want - esp when you really could find a sex partner if you REALLY wanted to. I know in my case... it wasn't really that I wanted somebody to think i was HOT and wanted to get all physical with me... what I really wanted, was someone who wanted to flirt with me, and get to know me, and spend thousands of hours on a telephone with, or nursing that last drink or dessert bite with. In a relationship is when the choice becomes VERY real - do you/don't you get physical...or more physical... but by the time that moment was on the table... I already knew the girl I was with, and she knew me... and we supported our physical relationship choices just as we supported each other in total. Don't know if this adds/helps - am hoping it at least provides some added examples from a WTM friend. - ian
  7. WTM and Career

    Mememe... I've worked in a wide variety of work environments and cultures... some were wide open on things, and some have been much more professional on the outside but filled with things on the underside. The truth is you choose how you act in the environment. Jesus himself ran among a pretty not-so-great crowd, and the world is filled with those who follow closely and those who don't. You get to decide how you act in those environments... gently excusing yourself from situations or circumstances that go beyond where you like... conveniently having phone calls or meetings or personal things you need to follow up that require attention by you leaving or moving temporarily from a conversation. I think it will be quite difficult to find an environemtn that is 100% a match of your own choices - it's even likely that church will not provide that 100% match - so I would just encourage you to the extent that you can to enjoy and thrive in those moments that stay productive and the work itself is interesting and challenging or inspiring to you...a nd controlling, limiting or tempoarily avoiding those situations that don't. That's what I've done generally - when things crossed lines i wasn't happy with.
  8. Asking for Some Support

    very glad to hear that!! it's so scary when all that elevates and goes out of whack without being able to understand or stay on top of it. relieved to hear this is improving!
  9. Asking for Some Support

    of course. that's exactly what this community does best. :-)
  10. True Colors

    keep at it. she's there. she's looking too. :-)
  11. True Colors

    Hi Justin. I used to get tired (like you described) of listening to friends talk about drunken evenings, or big parties, and going home with someone to appear the next day or later talking about who went home with whom. As much as I wanted to be with someone - I didn't want to do that. Ever. I wanted a relationship. I wanted a girlfriend. I wanted a friend who could grow into being a girlfriend who was looking for a guy who was ready to be a boyfriend and not just a date or a hookup. Which to ME... seemed like something every girl would sit up straight to see! And yet didn't seem to see me. or at least not when i was looking :-). I think i put more pressure on me than other people put... so I tried to ease up. I knew that big parties or let's-meet-at-the-bar nights would lead inevitably to the hook-up conversations and side-bets or worse... so I actually starting peeling back from those... less often not more often. I aimed for group nights - dinner at friends' houses with group of 8 - dinner out group of 10 - picnic, softball, let's go to the baseball game, let's go for bike ride in the park for group of 6 etc. Group dating was better to me... and yes admittedly there were times when within that group of 10 or 6 or whatever included couples or couples in the making... but... that's how my then-roommate met his wife (he was not a man-whore LOL)... that's how a very good friend of ours also met his wife. and somehow figuring out that group going-out was less-pressured meant we worked to find each other BFs and GFs without the pressure point of there's a formal or there's a big blowout party or whatever. I don't know if that helps - but what i found in self-confidence and ease in going out with friends... eventually introduced me to my eventual-wife. This undoubtedly sounds like every bad after-school special answer for how to meet nice people... and maybe in this day and age that scenario doesn't exist in the same way... but social connections seem to encourage other meet-ups... apps that bring people with a common interest to a restaurant or to a bookstore or to a museum... I hope I haven't overstepped in responding to your note - but it's important to me that all of you - who have indeed become like friends to me - hear some reassurance that she's out there (or he's out there). honest. that person is out there for you because you are LOOKING for that person. those who aren't looking... they debate who's going to hit what on the barstools on a saturday night and compare drunken notes on a sunday afternoon. You, my friend, are LOOKING... and LOOKING is half the battle.
  12. Offensive words for guys

    the only thing i want to add here is a note of how proud? happy? I am that this is the extent to which time has changed the self-assurances that young men like each of you on here reflect. it's a really amazing thing, although I suspect most of you would not easily see it. if you had asked this same question (and had the internet LOL) 20 years ago, you would have had a very different set of reactions from guys who are smart, perhaps a little more sensitive than the average, and certainly are standing for something a little different than the average. there were lots of words that stung hard for young men... words that do not need repeating... and words that have lost their punch. this is a really really really big deal. i know there is still bullying and harshness out there - I suspect any of the gay members on here might cite examples more readily, for friends if not for themselves - but by and large, what's changed is individuals' control of what words' impact is. you all should be proud of yourselves. you are above average, not different than the average. and you know what's a harmless word uttered by an insensitive person - and what's the truth. what i don't hear here is victim. I hear strength - and at least inner confidence if not truly outer confidence. :-)
  13. I always start conversations in this area with the fundamental fact that it should matter. It should matter who you have as a BF/GF, it should matter whether you kiss, it should matter how you act on sexual impulses. I think there is a very funny scene in a very classic teen movie CLUELESS in which Alicia Silverstone's Cher dismisses a comment about her virginity by noting if it took a long time to pick out a pair of shoes.... well you get the gist. Religion will factor for some kids of course; fear of disease can prevent I suppose, but it's not a motivator per se; I think what you're after is what we have all felt... motivated by waiting, vs being afraid of consequences of not-waiting... I just always start from the persepctive that if you value who you are as a person, it should matter. Kids will still choose to have sex. But perhaps the speech's success will be in getting them to challenge whether or not they just "have sex" vs at least making a deliberate thoughtful choice based on relationship and love and closeness. That's not me advociating it - it's just me hoping that whenever someone has sex for the first time, that the circumstances matter and the person matter because the act matters... hopefully it's when you're married to the love of your life... but i am practical and honest enough to understand that it may very well not be at wedding day, in which case, let it matter instead of just happening. :-) My two cents -
  14. WeaponX! I don't think it's weird at all. I think it's a statement of the kind of guy you are - kiss for real, not just to kiss :-) when there is a girlfriend in your life - and you want to kiss her because you feel that affection/attraction - that's the right time then. I always treated kissing as something special. I think it should matter. :-) and that's what you're telling all of us - is that it matters to you. I'm pretty sure that most of the people that you would be drawn to as potential dates/GF/maybe someday wife... those people think it matters too :-). Oh - and kissing isn't one of those things that practicing on more people is better LOL... I think there area actually a fairly healthy number of people who would characterize kissing as almost one of the intimate moments two people have. I know as a WTMer you would quickly have sex at the top of that list... but for people who may find sex to literally be a physical moment, or for people who think sex is just hooking up... kissing is a pretty intimate moment between two people. Not that that changes anything of course! But I just think it's good that you're holding off on just random kissing :-)
  15. i read this post early this morning (California time)... and it really touched me as something important. I wanted to comment on it immediately, but did not have the time so easily this morning to do it with the same earnest consideration and compassion with which each of you has built upon Bekah's original post. but here goes... with the caveat that I am one of the Married People here... so I found my other half but I don't forget those moments during the days and nights when i felt alone, or left behind, or missing. Bekah - and everyone else who posted here and/or felt the same way - I want you to know that the transparency and vulnerability you showed in sharing your feelings on this HERE.... are the same reasons that I know you will indeed find someone in proper time (whatever time that is). That's not just rose-colored optimism speaking... or the eyes of someone who married many years ago... that belief is borne from the observation that 90% of forming a relationship with someone is built on your willingness to trust them and share yourself a bit... and the trust to allow someone you meet to do the same. I'm talking about the basis of friendship - not even love or romance - just friendship - because the great relationships in history and in life were built from or at the very least succeeded because a deep and abiding friendship and trust of our fragile lives and hearts and hopes and anxieities and dreams, is what draws you to a person for the longterm. And each of you above who commented... shared something kinduva raw about yourselves. if you can do it here - i pray that you then find the strength and the momentary confidence to be that way in real life with someone... I like to think that I never really "dated" - in that horrible Hollywood sense LOL. I made friends - lots of friends - a few of them were women who seemed drawn to me just like i was drawn to them :-). We would share meals together, share rides together, study together, work on a project together, take a walk together, play on a team together. We would... be friends. When I personally took the emotional pressure (or torture LOL) of "I need to find a date" off myself... i found myself remembering that I liked being with people... i liked making new friends... i liked learning new stuff about friends (guy friends and girl friends)... and gradually i also learned how to put myself in front of them with a touch of romance ... knowing that sometimes that would be not reciprocated and it would be a little awkward. but periodically... there was chemistry instead. When i stopped trying to "date" - I found i was out all the time. And when I wasn't going out, and it was a weekend night at home by myself or with a roommate... well... I learned that was ok too. and in this day and age, you have the social media means to be home and amused or in a chat conversation in a way that I didn't have so many years ago. Any one of you that has the heart to tell all of us that you want to share your heart big, that you want to share your life big, and that sometimes you feel lonely or the worry of am i going to meet someone... well... you're the kind of person I yearned to meet when I wasn't "dating" ... and all I can tell you is that there are (many) others like you :-). Your friend - that will be more than a friend - is there... and every day brings you one step closer. Don't let the shadows creep in... it's ok once in a while... but stay well... stay friendly... make new friends... hold your good friends close... and always keep yourself open and sharing... it's very powerful, and very drawing for people who feel... and i'm pretty sure those are the people you all are after. I know I was. :-)
  16. i have to say I commend everyone for giving this topic as truly serious and thoughtful a thread as it has taken. This is a bit more of a divisive topic than most... and it poses a bit of inner turmoil and conflict i think for almost everyone in one form or another... becuase it challenges us to think about what our own status is, despite the fact that what we all have in common is waiting till marriage. So the core value that everything else is based off is in common... but our own status (virgin or not) the status of a potential dating partner (virgin or not), and the preference we have as to what the status of that dating partner is in comparison to our own... I know many of you are very focused on your desire to marry someone who shares the value and the same status (virgin only) - I personally respect each of you with the sense of personal commitment you want to share at full 100% with a special person in your life. But I also personally respect each of you who has for similar but different reasons decided that the individual's status is less the issue for you, than is their reason for waiting at this point. As a Biblical reference, it's almost a bit of Prodigal Son for you I think... the good son returning to the fold after having been away, and the degree to which his (or her) decision alters the way you think about them... We all welcome each other here enormously. There are large arms here to grasp and virtually hug each new member, each new guest, each new person who checks out the site. And those arms are offered by everyone regardless of their answer on the what's-your-status question. I think that's the way it should be for certain. but our individual decisions about virgin or not should of course be equally respected and allowed for... knowing that as with almost everything in life, people come from different perspectives and have differing levels of openness to whther their choice is made and never changed, made and flexible, made and fully changed. so i really applaud everyone on here for giving it the thought that is evident in people grappling with whether or not being a "reclaimed virgin" makes sense to them... and whether that is acceptable to your individual sense of who you want to be with - versus accepted and embraced as a fellow human being. I just encourage eveyrone to stay open on this... open to who the person is in all senses... including the choice they made willfully or haphazardly, and the choice they made to make a different choice moving forward.
  17. Having Daughters

    @ Justin: all i will say... is that I have taught all 3 kids to ski - water and snow ski (including 1 who snowboards) - and I was a team coach for more soccer and softball teams than I can count :-). You will exercise your personal sports interest no matter which you have - I promise - and besides, I'm a big believer in sports as an important skill building (I don't mean physical skills) in terms of how to work on a team, how to be a leader and how to be a follower, how to be a "coach" etc. Things young women need just as much - and from Dads who do the nurture/care part just as strongly :-) You'll do great - no matter which you have or if you have both!
  18. Having Daughters

    @Justin: ( don't get me wrong... there are MOMENTS... LOL )
  19. Having Daughters

    that is exactly my situation LOL... but as everyone in our home knows... the dog votes with me and has 4 paws to vote :-)
  20. Having Daughters

    Tev: I have 3... and i come from all boys... so it was a shock to our family system! :-) Of course the truth is you are delighted with whatever God blesses you with.... but I am pretty glad I have three wonderful happy girls :-)
  21. Having Daughters

    I highly recommend having daughters :-) definitely a warm moment for a Dad :-)
  22. Greetings From SoCal

    SoCal :-)
  23. hmmmmmmm life

    To raise the human condition... to the glory of those around you and to the glory of God. Raise it in the family you belong to, the family you join, the family you have and raise as your own. Raise it among the friends you make and cherish; the ones you make and move on from; the ones you knowingly help, the ones you inadvertently hurt, the ones you do not even KNOW you touch (and yet do). To raise the human condition is to be as big and bright a version of yourself as you can... even if small and quiet and intense... and practice that love every day. I konw it sounds very esoteric and 100,000 feet - but it is what i believe. optimism, faith, outlook, insight, action, application.