ian

Married Waiters
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Everything posted by ian

  1. New Guy to the Site

    it's going to be great for you. you took a big step in joining and participating! and i guarantee you'll find a ton here that's good for your soul and maybe evening a bit challenging about how you think about meeting people and being yourself and staying true to what you believe and choose :-) this is going to be a great step for you -
  2. you've got plenty of good volunteers with good ears, good intentions, good hearts and i'm sure good words to offer. :-)
  3. so here's the thing. the next stage of waiting is up to you - you know that. you have all the forgiveness that you can ask for - from God, from anyone around you you think you may have crossed, or if you are anxious about it, from whomever is next in your life. that forgiveness gives you the chance to clear your heavy heart about this. and if you choose - to grow from it. it's very clear - abundantly clear - that you are filled with regret and disappointment that things got away from you - it doesn't matter whether it was a momentary loss of control, or if it was alcohol, or if it was the social pressure of it, or if it was indeed at that one particular moment a willful choice - what matters is how you address that for yourself for moving forward. Every one above me on this thread raises good points and issues - whether to simply hold it as a mistake, own that you made a mistake and move on.... or to cause a small questioning inside you about how all the steps of that relationship may have contributed to that one moment. But i'm back to the top of my note here... the thing is... you cannot go backwards... you can only go forward, and you can go forward with a clean heart if you choose to, and you can step forward with a mistake on the books, but a dedicated heart and soul about what you will do moving forward. honest. that's what forgiveness - and striving to be a better person - are all about. I know i am playing a bit of word nuancing here... but you may want to think about the differences - FOR YOU - in your sexual urges, the extent of your physical affections and physical expression in a relationship, and you may want to be deliberate about where lines are, and in really watching for signs of support from whomever is lucky enough to be part of your life. To succeed, and to give a relationship the best chances at success, you need a common point of view about what it means to be a couple and how you want to act as a couple for each other... it doesn't mean you have to be the same - it means you have to support who the other is, and act together for the betterment of both of you. my wife and i were not the same, but we most certainly wanted to be better for each other and with each other. that's almost a more intimate conversation and understanding to have as a couple - than is anything you might do or succumb to physically... but it's also the truest form of being together. I encourage you to dust yourself off, and share the being inside you with optimism and hope about the future. just my two cents' worth :-)
  4. Hey, I'm Eric

    way to go for deciding and joining - you're among good people who are on the full range of waiting but all are united by the idea that it's the way for them :-)
  5. I think we flirt these days more via social channels LOL... snapchat, text messages thru the day, that sort of thing (nothing overtly sexual just in case you are thinking that!)... but flirting has always been a gentle part of most days in some form or another for us... it can be a very genuine soft touch... a raised eyebrow... a specific laugh (that WE know what it means LOL)... or it can be far more direct... a flirting comment that is in essence a bit of foreplay all by itself. (just being truthful!). But the very nature of flirting is just gentle affection and a touch of fun humor.... and bec of that we flirt off and always have. :-)
  6. HAPPY BIRTHDAY MIKE!!!

    Birthday Boy!!!!!!! better than ever - one step closer to degree than ever - more successful than ever :-) may the coming year include even greater and nicer steps for you - ian
  7. so there are funny things you suddenly are aware of when you share a bed for the first time. what am i wearing, do i look silly, am i feeling self-conscious, did i brush my teeth, are my toenails clipped, did i shave my legs (if i am a woman LOL)... i know these sound like funny silly inconsquential things... but i promise you... these are the things that go through people's minds when they share a bed for the first time! then there's the navigation over which side do you prefer, do you like 1 pillow/2 pillows/covers on/covers off... and THEN there's the cuddling/no cuddling/do i snore, do i drool, do i talk in my sleep, factors. if we're being completely honest and transparent - there is also likely a bit of nervousness about cuddling and snuggling and warm affection and whether that inadvertently adds sexual tension - or even sexual reaction - to the moment even if you are firmly committed to nothing happening. without being crass, men are men... and there are certain physical reactions that happen like clockwork at night... i'm sure i don't need to be more specific in that but we are humans with physiological responses. having said alllll of that.... i'm fully with Sally - sharing a bed is romantic and tender... and it's also just warm and human to seek the warmth and physical comfort offered by sharing sleep with someone you love. it does not have to cause undue stress or pressure. instead, as long as you are open and honest in your discussions about it, sharing a bed can be tender and calming and wonderful to wake up next to the one you love and start the day together.
  8. Happy Valentine's Day

    LOL. well... "embrace the enemy" LOL! and in this case the enemy was a holiday :-)
  9. HTH - for me, it was one of those things that just sort of crept up on me. no lightning bolt per se... just the very unconscious and then very conscious sense that i couldn't imagine her NOT being with me... i didn't "look" for other girls... she was the one i wanted to talk with first in the morning and the one with whom i wanted to share the most mundane of my daily doings not just the big stuff... she was the one i wanted to watch television with, cook a meal with, sit on the couch and read books and not talk with, and say good night to before going to sleep. those seem like little things... but as you date... no matter how short or long a time period... there is that sense that grows in you of just how intertwined your life becomes with someone... and one day I looked in the mirror in the middle of the night having gotten up to get some water... and i had awakened thinking of her... and i looked at myself in the mirror... and I knew. i knew it was time to get married :-). i knew that all the intertwining i had done with her - emotionally not physically LOL - had us completed woven into each other's lives and hearts and futures. my friends knew it LOOOONG before i knew it LOL - somewhere in one of the articles or interviews I have laughed that my best friend and roommate at the time was truly exasperated waiting for me to get on with it and propose! and we had one of those late night heart to heart talks that best friends do, and he just pushed at it laughing at me about what was taking so long LOL.... (this was AFTER i already had had the mirror experience :-) ).... and i knew he was more than right... because she was more than right for me. so long story answer there - when the short form is... seeing each other as The One - at least for me and my wife - was a simple act of watching each other become completely filled in each other's daily lives... more than dating... just daily lives. :-)
  10. Happy Valentine's Day

    well... .perhaps as the ultimate act of "taking back" the 14th of February from greeting cards and florists........... i hated Valentine's Day for years. no matter whether i had a GF or not. HATED. fabricated, forced, pressured, and then negative self-feelings if i wasn't participating. lose-lose, not win-win. but in the ironic act of "taking it back"...... i proposed to my wife on Valentine's Day :_ yes i know ... giant cliche. and i know many of you are rolling your eyes - or softly laughing. but you know what? now Feb 14th is OUR day - not greeting card of florists' day - OUR day. The day we said YES to each other. :-) and we celebrate saying YES... every year. :-)
  11. ok bonus points for a silly - but very real - question. so my truth is... when we were first married i did not CARE AT ALL about morning breath - not mine, not hers - we were too busy waking up, judging whthether maybe we felt a little frisky and so on LOL. but... reality does set in soon enough... we would often touch each other with a bit of just pure affection to let each other know we were feeling amorous. maybe a light kiss. we always keep water glasses on nightstands anyway - and that helps wash away a bit. and lastly... at least one of us would often get up and wash face/quick brush of teeth... and then off we went. so there are my truths about morning breath for you, Mark!
  12. hang in there claudia. I only wanted to drop a note here to say that I am certain there will be plenty of support offered here - it IS a challenging decision under any circumstances - and it comes with all sorts of extra implications esp when you are in the midst of a relationship - as you describe your situation... nonetheless i'm sure there will be thoughtful responses and notes to come ...
  13. Hi, people

    I have 3 daughters... and I suspect that pretty much every one on here has the same concern you do - raising kids to embrace the values you hope for them to have amidst a world that is more sexual more explicit more challenging to those values. all i can offer on this point is that kids reflect a direct embrace or rejection of their parents' values. live your values naturally live your values openly and speak to them - and your kids will see them and feel them as part of their DNA. push unrelentingly or at the expense of listening to them and guiding them vs "forcing" them... and you may see your kids choose differently. this has been the experience of me and my wife - and I know that of course my own personal experiences are just that - MINE not everyone else's - but I do see our kids feel the values naturally and just easily part of their skin. don't get me wrong - kids fall down and scrape their knees (to use a metaphor) - your kids will make an occasional less-good choice... it will happen - they are human just as you were and are. but values are at a foundation level... and your kids will return to them over and over again in their lives... simply by watching you and your wife, your success and happiness and truth as a couple and as a family. at least that is my opinion and experience :-) and CONGRATULATIONS. Having kids is simply the best thing you will ever ever have the blessing to do. Try hard and try from your heart - and you'll be a great dad (and mom). and don't worry too too much about the rest of the world... they will live in and around that world... just as Jesus himself did... and that's ok, when you know who you are on the inside. :-)
  14. OMG absolutely we used birth control LOL. I confess the last thing we wanted to contemplate was a baby that quickly... it didn't make it any less romantic (she used a diaphragm - we did not use a condom and she has never been on the pill) - because frankly i didn't know any different... and it took just a minute and then we were in business so honestly... i never noticed it! we did not have sex without some form of birth control for the first two years of marriage... and that's when we decided we were ready to hope for a baby. :-)
  15. Hello, all!

    welcome Eric - i promise you a community of like-minded people here... all with an array of how-I-got-here stories to add. Welcome!
  16. to be fair to the topic - with one additional note for everyone - it's obviously not as simple as "oh? you're waiting? ok i will too!"... i glossed a little in the response above - i've certainly told my story in a few other threads - but the critical piece here was mutually understanding what you thought and wanted about a true grownup relationship with someone. and in exploring that conversation with my GF (eventually wife)... I was specifically sharing with her my emphasis on finding a committed relationship... that i was in fact looking for marriage... maybe it would be with her, but maybe it wouldn't - and we would figure that out together - bec she had to be as certain about me as i was about her. that exploration of what are you looking for, and what do you think being truly in a committed relationship with someone includes - well that's how i came to stop looking at what had or hadn't happened in the past, and to focus on what WE wanted to happen and when. it is no secret to any waiter or non-waiter - ultimately, because we were in love and knew we wanted to marry - we wanted to be sexually together as well as romantically together... but that's where those early discussions - that were renewed and revisited often - had laid the groundwork for us both to not just accept "the rules" but to embrace who we BOTH were as we considered love and marriage. look - there's no getting around the fact that it's hard on a virgin to not look and wonder is it going to be ok, given that we're not in the same boat. but guys... SHE WAITED. She WANTED to wait. and she NEVER made me think it wasn't worth it and she NEVER made me feel like I wasn't worth it.
  17. I waited with a non-waiter who wanted to wait with me. i think the biggest difference was that she saw our relationship as unique and unto itself... so while she may not have waited on a previous relationship or two... she thought differently about us... and we made a joint decision about that :-)
  18. guys... here is one man's experience... those of you who know a bit of my story (I'm a successful waiter... longtime married/dad) may recall that i married a woman who was not a virgin, but who in fact chose to wait with me. Like IAG noted above... this was NOT a case of her slowly over time trying to convince me to have sex. This was a case of us growing comfortable with our boundary lines, and importantly agreeing together about waiting. It was NEVER easy LOL. We were human, we both had sexual urges and desires, we both were affectionate and warm people who wanted to express our love to each other in all ways. But. We also had a plan about that, and ultimately lived the plan. Sex that first time was undeniably special - for BOTH of us - and truly a celebration. As it was the second time. And the third time. well you get my point. I am not insensitive to the array of reactions this discussion thread brings up for each of you... i would also suggest to you all that like everything that is interpersonal... your feelings in holding back on sex, anticipating sex and ultimately having sex - inside marriage or not - is a pure reflection of who you two are as individuals and as a couple. Does your partner - virgin or not - celebrate the romance of your relationship? Do they celebrate the small everydayness of holding your hand? of a sweet kiss on the cheek as much as a passionate kiss on the lips? Those are all important signals as to whether sex will be celebrated... vs just a pursuit... which I know is buried within this thread... the fear that a non-waiter is ultimately just playing the game of wearing you down to pursue sex. My dating experience included yes one or two who were playing that game... and ultimately i saw those relationships for what they were... i don't mean the sex issue - i mean the relationship issue. we weren't matches - we were trying each other on in a dating relationship and we weren't fitting - at least from my angle. And then I met a woman who was not playing that game. She had made a different choice along the way but made a powerful choice with me. Special for us both - celebrated by us both. Because we were two people who sought that sort of relationship, regardless - or perhaps as a consquence of - previous choices. one man's experience guys -
  19. Hi Matt. Quite the struggle i know... the struggle inside you for acceptance and lightness of heart and trust. the struggle inside her on those past details, and the forthcoming nature of transparency, forgiveness and commitments for the future. I know we all seem to be rooting for you... and yet at a bit of a loss on how to fully help you other than to be supportive of your instincts. God gives you instincts to follow and first reactions to know where things stand... your free will and tendencies to add interpretative layers to what people tell you is human nature... and it can cloudy/murky i know. but i guess my newest comment to you would be about your basic faith-based instincts. what are they telling you about her, about you as a couple, about the future as a couple. it's great that your kids get along - but she will be your wife first and foremost if things progress - so you should probably pay attention to that piece a little more closely... now that you seem to have assurance that all could be between all the kids and your kids with her... it's back to your instincts. your inner voice. your listening super closely to the quiet things God is telling you about you, your future and your next steps. i always believe He puts people in front of you for a reason... and yes those reasons can be long lasting or they can be in the moment and one great context. ie sometimes relationships come with unlimited future :-) and sometimes relationships come with expiration dates... not lack of impact, value, genuineness or importance... just a natural end-by date. you seem to be wavering hard on this. and caution is really helpful to you for sure!!! but... i would just encourage you to think long and hard about those first instincts you had... and what instincts continue in you. you've made so many wonderful positive changes in yourself - you'll want to figure out how to make the most of them, and perhaps whether the person you are meant to be with is hand in hand with you on that journey - in a similar pose - or someone you are to help along that journey - who's a little more muddled than you are - or someone who is ahead of you on that journey - who can buoy you as you continue to change and grow. anyway... lotta fortune cookie talk there i know... but as always... i - like everyone else here - am just trying to support you as you take every day steps. :-) - ian
  20. you have much to consider about this relationship... and the fact that you are opening it up so fully here to this forum tells me that you already know what's in your heart about the issues here... it's not about the sexual past... that's for you each to seek a clean slate for with God and with yourselves... and it's clear that you have taken yourself on a different path, and it's even clear from what you say that she has. The issue of course is in the reveal isn't it. The reveal of sexual past. The reveal of truth in ages, and the big moments of seeking redemption, starting anew, acting in a new way. The reveal of the trust that you seem to very strongly seek and want to give. And that reveal doesn't seem to have come as flawlessly or as easily - or as confidently - as you would like. I think most on here probably can appreciate your sense of dismay at both your agitated sense of wanting to hear the reveals and not worry that there are lies embedded in anything big or small, even on a daily basis going forward.... and as well as your potential growing difficulty in matching truth, transparency, genuineness, trust and truth. I don't think any of us truly have the full answer for you - although i'm certain most of us have an instinctual answer to what they would do... but someone who writes as you do... with as much DESIRE to believe and longing to trust openly and lovingly... well... i guess i feel like someone likes that deserves to participate as fully and as long as you can ... before fully walking away from something that feels like a connection. you're 35. And i suspect that like most of us once we sorta crack into our mid-30s... you likely want to deal with straight answers, with truths... and you're willing to own your failings and weaknesses and darker moments as much as you're willing to accept them in others... provided that there is a clear path of a different way forward. so here you are... waiting it out a bit with her understandably confused... or at the very least uncertain... of how this really will unfold.... and what the right step is that you should take. I know you are putting your faith and your prayers in God to help guide your actions with her, your sense of "judging" vs "accepting" and your human capabilities at building the way forward. I suspect that can weigh heavily on your mind, and on your soul... but your intention is pure... and honest and good. I would only advise you -without knowing truly the whole story - that someone whose intentions are as upright as yours seem to be... well.... someone like that deserves to be with someone who mirrors that very same outlook and personal perspective... and i f you believe that this woman has that potential - you owe it to yourself and to her to give it a full inclusive try. As with everything you do as a true grown up and as a dad... eyes wide open. heart open too and arms... but eyes wide open. - ian
  21. hi matt... some thoughts on this (like Col) - will have to get to them after Christmas Day - - ian
  22. Happy Christmas

    ah... another 85 minutes to go here in california...... :-) but the spirit is exactly the same, Col. you'll be getting up shortly with little ones :-) even as we're still going to bed waiting for santa here :-) merry/happy christmas everyone who celebrates -
  23. XD... as you may or not recall from my story... I married a woman who was not a virgin... but who waited with me.... (it's a bit in the interview Mike did with me for WTM.org a long time ago, in the articles tab).... i have to say.... it's sort of a bit of building a bridge to that person... i could rationalize the circumstances of love and sexual choices that she made in the specific cases... and hearing her sense of wishing that she hadn't went a long way to easing my sense of it and helping me begin to cope with the feelings that overwhelmed me at various times. But here are the ways that coping really accelerated, and bridge-building accelerated, until eventually i put all those anxious or let-down disappointment feelings aside - once and for all: she heard me about wanting to do that only in the right circumstances... she respected me... and then she supported me... helping draw the line when we get a little too friendly... and then i knew she was with me... not just accepting it and playing by "my rules"... but truly with me... wanting to wait.... and choosing to wait... the other big coping moment came when i had one of those quiet very introspective times late a night... just me and my thoughts... and I realized that i had kissed and been phsically affectionate (not sex obviously) with a few other women... that i had loved... but when i kissed my GF/eventually wife... I did not think of the other women... I did not compare... I did not hesitate thinking hmmm good? not as good? in fact... it was preposterous to me in that moment that i would think of the other women... i was kissing and affectionate with the woman i truly loved... and was in grown-up love with... and eventually wanted to marry... and when i heard that voice of reason in my head... I knew it was God gently reminding me... that you can in fact put the past behind you... that's what he offers from Him to me... and it seemed not just reasonable but in fact the right thing to offer than to myself and to my GF//wife. and boom. anxiety went away. and I swear to you - i stopped thinking about it. I chose to be with her and bring her myself - in the state i was in of waiting. and She chose to be with me and bring herself... in the state of waiting with me.
  24. So guess what!?!?!? ;)

    I knew this was a very SUNNY day for some reason :-) I'm so happy for you both!!!
  25. A decision to wait till marriage

    way to go Mac. 1/2 the battle is knowing who you want to be...for yourself... and for your future :-).