on the fence

What if you found....

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Ok no right or wrong answer her

I after a few years of marriage you came across a bucket of love letters and pics of your wife and her ex boyfriends.

How would you handle this?

try to be detailed

GO!

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well that's a good provocative kick.

ok first off honest admission: we both tossed all that stuff away as part of coming together. And 20+yrs later I have never come across something of hers - nor has their been some hidden stash of mine for her to find. all gone. (But we dated 3yrs before finally getting married, and she moved twice in that span of time so there were ample opportunities for her to do housecleaning.)

Back to your question.

I would start off way hurt. I could gloss this point and jump to the "be an adult" steps of how to handle, but I owe it to myself and to you to start by saying I would be extremely troubled, and down about coming across this stuff at that point. So that means I would also wrestle about what to do... look through them in detail? (in the end, no, but i would probably panic - i'm human) leave them where they were but play passive aggressive games to have her admit they are there? (no... but feeling very movie-of-the-week there, and by the way, momentarily one of my choices) or leave them there and ignore them, ie it's her old stuff, she didn't throw it out for some reason and here we are (no... i don't really buy that in the end).

so after shaking off a big pout and mustering some some strength, maturity etc - and assuming that I really believe I have nothing to worry about - I would raise it. not a big deal - or at least I would try to make it not a big deal - trying to assume that stuff just is still in a box and maybe didn't get thrown out for some mix of nostalgia/who I was sorta stuff as well as laziness on the full clean-out of the past. And I know it would kill me if for any reason she got awkward about it - as if that was telling me something more about the importance of those letters/photos to her. I think I would ask her - urge her - implore her - to put those things once and for all behind her for us. I can mentally allow group photos that include the exes... I don't think I can get my head around twosome coupley photos in places and occasoins that obviously are "special" for some reason. And of course I would pray pray pray that that conversation and subsequent action goes ok.

of course... i am reading and answering your question and in the back of my mind I am connecting dots with your stories so far and assuming that this might have been a real situation and a real scenario for you. and I would just say... that at least in my relationships - especially with my wife - there is no past that she does not know about, and there is not past that is in our home or lives today. And that goes for both of us.

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well that's a good provocative kick.

ok first off honest admission: we both tossed all that stuff away as part of coming together. And 20+yrs later I have never come across something of hers - nor has their been some hidden stash of mine for her to find. all gone. (But we dated 3yrs before finally getting married, and she moved twice in that span of time so there were ample opportunities for her to do housecleaning.)

Back to your question.

I would start off way hurt. I could gloss this point and jump to the "be an adult" steps of how to handle, but I owe it to myself and to you to start by saying I would be extremely troubled, and down about coming across this stuff at that point. So that means I would also wrestle about what to do... look through them in detail? (in the end, no, but i would probably panic - i'm human) leave them where they were but play passive aggressive games to have her admit they are there? (no... but feeling very movie-of-the-week there, and by the way, momentarily one of my choices) or leave them there and ignore them, ie it's her old stuff, she didn't throw it out for some reason and here we are (no... i don't really buy that in the end).

so after shaking off a big pout and mustering some some strength, maturity etc - and assuming that I really believe I have nothing to worry about - I would raise it. not a big deal - or at least I would try to make it not a big deal - trying to assume that stuff just is still in a box and maybe didn't get thrown out for some mix of nostalgia/who I was sorta stuff as well as laziness on the full clean-out of the past. And I know it would kill me if for any reason she got awkward about it - as if that was telling me something more about the importance of those letters/photos to her. I think I would ask her - urge her - implore her - to put those things once and for all behind her for us. I can mentally allow group photos that include the exes... I don't think I can get my head around twosome coupley photos in places and occasoins that obviously are "special" for some reason. And of course I would pray pray pray that that conversation and subsequent action goes ok.

of course... i am reading and answering your question and in the back of my mind I am connecting dots with your stories so far and assuming that this might have been a real situation and a real scenario for you. and I would just say... that at least in my relationships - especially with my wife - there is no past that she does not know about, and there is not past that is in our home or lives today. And that goes for both of us.

well that's a good provocative kick.

ok first off honest admission: we both tossed all that stuff away as part of coming together. And 20+yrs later I have never come across something of hers - nor has their been some hidden stash of mine for her to find. all gone. (But we dated 3yrs before finally getting married, and she moved twice in that span of time so there were ample opportunities for her to do housecleaning.)

Back to your question.

I would start off way hurt. I could gloss this point and jump to the "be an adult" steps of how to handle, but I owe it to myself and to you to start by saying I would be extremely troubled, and down about coming across this stuff at that point. So that means I would also wrestle about what to do... look through them in detail? (in the end, no, but i would probably panic - i'm human) leave them where they were but play passive aggressive games to have her admit they are there? (no... but feeling very movie-of-the-week there, and by the way, momentarily one of my choices) or leave them there and ignore them, ie it's her old stuff, she didn't throw it out for some reason and here we are (no... i don't really buy that in the end).

so after shaking off a big pout and mustering some some strength, maturity etc - and assuming that I really believe I have nothing to worry about - I would raise it. not a big deal - or at least I would try to make it not a big deal - trying to assume that stuff just is still in a box and maybe didn't get thrown out for some mix of nostalgia/who I was sorta stuff as well as laziness on the full clean-out of the past. And I know it would kill me if for any reason she got awkward about it - as if that was telling me something more about the importance of those letters/photos to her. I think I would ask her - urge her - implore her - to put those things once and for all behind her for us. I can mentally allow group photos that include the exes... I don't think I can get my head around twosome coupley photos in places and occasoins that obviously are "special" for some reason. And of course I would pray pray pray that that conversation and subsequent action goes ok.

of course... i am reading and answering your question and in the back of my mind I am connecting dots with your stories so far and assuming that this might have been a real situation and a real scenario for you. and I would just say... that at least in my relationships - especially with my wife - there is no past that she does not know about, and there is not past that is in our home or lives today. And that goes for both of us.

Ok- so you do the "not a big deal" thing let it go, but give her your concerns that you havent even seen your own wedding video nor was their any collage of the two of you...... You find this bucket stashed in a different spot another year later

Go!

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I'm laughing... but not really... laughing WITH you if that's possible. OK i will answer when I surface from a meeting or two. Definitely not a good scenario wow... I am reallllllllly shaking my head and beginning to see how your situation unraveled...

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Okay this has me slightly worried. See I'm big into maintaining my photo albums and in those photo albums I obviously have pictures of ex boyfriends. Most of them are from group nights out like birthday's etc I definately dont have photos of day-dates with ex boyfriends where it was just the two of us. But some of the photos from the nights out would just be of me and an ex.

Do you think I should get rid of these photos, given that I'm with a new (and great) guy? Do you think he would have an issue with this? I dont value the photos other than as a part of the sequence of the photo album. I would throw them out in a second if I thought they would hurt my boyfriend. I also have some jewellery from past boyfriends. I threw out all birthday cards etc but couldnt justify throwing out the jewellery even though I never wear it simply because its proper jewellery.

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Ok- so you do the "not a big deal" thing let it go, but give her your concerns that you havent even seen your own wedding video nor was their any collage of the two of you...... You find this bucket stashed in a different spot another year later

Go!

OK (deep breath and now proceeding into Round II)...

The wedding video thing? Unacceptable. Period. No getting around that one. I literally don't know where to begin on that one.

No photo collage? OK so I'll play through with small personal accountability and ask if you created one (vs expecting her to)? Regardless... if there are collages of other guys, but not of you... unacceptable #2.

Now we're up to the Bonus Round of finding the bucket a year later.

Sigh.

I have to say... I wouldn't just be sad/hurt/disappointed. I would be seriously questioning, and honestly... probably raging a bit. Mind you, I'm a slow-to-anger kinda guy. I may go off the handle on bad traffic, or how long the checkout line is at the store, but this is true all-nerve-endings-raised kind of anger that would come with what you're describing... so I can only imagine how you dealt with it at the time... or for that matter, how you manage to calmly relate the story even to all of us on here.

Once again, my INDIVIDUAL reaction (disclaimer disclaimer) would be to literally bring it out onto the table, ask the reasons why it still exists and my feelings weren't addressed in either destroying or at least equalizing with me being present, and the video being held from me etc etc. With unfortunately rage probably bringing some ultimatum out of my lips (which as we all know... ultimatums never really work and they never really succeed at making for collaborative solutions, but nonetheless... and being honest... I would probably want to throw out some ultimatum-y thing about get rid of it or get rid of me one or other)...

NOTE to MM: this is NOT about its existence by itself... I'll offer up my own POV on your post in a second... this is because of all the other things FENCE describes with it.

I'm just being honest guys - feelings of being hurt would probably quickly become feelings of anger and wanting to lash out. this is MARRIAGE... this is supposed to be MY ONE AND ONLY... this is supposed to be FOREVER... this is supposed to be YOU & ME, HUSBAND & WIFE, OUR LIVES INTERTWINED & TOGETHER, FAITHFUL TO EACH OTHER...

I know it all sounds very Hallmark e-card.

And since your next question is then what happens... I think i would insist on some intervention... looking for actions she could do to assure me that i'm the one and only... looking for potential third-party conversation (therapist, pastor, something) who could help us work through why i feel what i feel and why she thinks it's ok to do those things... looking for actions that WE could do to demonstrate the photo collage/let's watch our video together romantically/let's hang or frame pictures of us in all our special places etc etc.

Still at the bottom of it all... and when the rage subsides... I would still be left a bit of a puddle... trying to figure out - and looking to her to answer - why she has a lot of romantic presence still of everyone... and seemingly not much of me.

You asked for honest reactions - there's mine.

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Okay this has me slightly worried. See I'm big into maintaining my photo albums and in those photo albums I obviously have pictures of ex boyfriends. Most of them are from group nights out like birthday's etc I definately dont have photos of day-dates with ex boyfriends where it was just the two of us. But some of the photos from the nights out would just be of me and an ex.

Do you think I should get rid of these photos, given that I'm with a new (and great) guy? Do you think he would have an issue with this? I dont value the photos other than as a part of the sequence of the photo album. I would throw them out in a second if I thought they would hurt my boyfriend. I also have some jewellery from past boyfriends. I threw out all birthday cards etc but couldnt justify throwing out the jewellery even though I never wear it simply because its proper jewellery.

Back to you now...

so big deep breath please for you!! You are clearly a thoughtful, what-does-my-BF-think sensitive person!!! and i love what you're describing... that's a chronicle of your life at least from what it sounds like to me.

but in the spirit of FENCE's question and my responses and all that... I would probably say to you... bring it out for the new great guy to see. If he's anything like you or anything like what I imagine someone like you to be with... he'll see it for what it is and no freak-out. I can only assume that the most recent pages include plenty of pictures of you & him and your friends, and that maybe he's on your refrigerator and all that good stuff.... and vice versa. Of course the discussion about your albums also allow you to clear the air about whatever boxes of stuff he has around as well.

the most important thing is clean air. you have the means - and integrity - to make that happen. It appears like FENCE's situation was sadly different - so I did want to assure you that i don't think it's some categorical action/reaction... I just think you need to maintain fresh air :-).

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I've never really thought about this before but I think I would feel pretty much the way Ian described. Just being honest. I realize that it may not actually have any bearing on the relationship between her and I but I wouldn't be happy about it and thats the honest truth. I mean when she would be looking at the old pics or whatever she would be thinking about some other guy...that she used to date/have feelings for, etc....I'm just not comfortable with that. And on top of that I would never do that to her.

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I don't know exactly how I would feel. I guess it would depend on the relationship and the guy, but I'd be lying if I tried to say that I wouldn't feel at least disappointed. I don't keep that kind of stuff around. I guess I feel like, if the relationship wasn't special enough to last and I wasn't special enough for the guy to stick around, then none of it has a place in my current life. I take what I can from the experiences, learn what needs to be learned, and then work to put it behind me and move on to better things. Idealy, I would end up with a guy who had similar feelings on this issue, but I realize that's not always the case, so I would try to make it work.

On the other side of this-- I'm pretty sure I don't have anything left from previous relationships. I don't feel like it's healthy for me to dwell on that stuff after I've learned from it and moved past it, and I feel like it would act against my loyalty in some way toward my partner, and vice-versa. If my future husband were to come across something, it would be news to me! I would feel bad and probably pretty embarrassed, but maybe we could make the most of it and throw a bonfire party that night to get rid of it? Hehe...

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I'd make her get rid of everything.

Okay this has me slightly worried. See I'm big into maintaining my photo albums and in those photo albums I obviously have pictures of ex boyfriends. Most of them are from group nights out like birthday's etc I definately dont have photos of day-dates with ex boyfriends where it was just the two of us. But some of the photos from the nights out would just be of me and an ex.

Do you think I should get rid of these photos, given that I'm with a new (and great) guy? Do you think he would have an issue with this? I dont value the photos other than as a part of the sequence of the photo album. I would throw them out in a second if I thought they would hurt my boyfriend. I also have some jewellery from past boyfriends. I threw out all birthday cards etc but couldnt justify throwing out the jewellery even though I never wear it simply because its proper jewellery.

It's not right for you to keep another man's gifts/memories while dating your present boyfriend. Get rid of, or at least sell, everything. Even if he wouldn't care (although I think he would), it's still the right thing to do.

Further, if he were to find out about the jewellery and the fact that you discarded everything but it, he'd probably think of you as quite shallow.

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Ok no right or wrong answer her

I after a few years of marriage you came across a bucket of love letters and pics of your wife and her ex boyfriends.

How would you handle this?

try to be detailed

GO!

I'd set fire... to the rain.

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I'd make her get rid of everything.

It's not right for you to keep another man's gifts/memories while dating your present boyfriend. Get rid of, or at least sell, everything. Even if he wouldn't care (although I think he would), it's still the right thing to do.

Further, if he were to find out about the jewellery and the fact that you discarded everything but it, he'd probably think of you as quite shallow.

I think this is a bit harsh. I dont think I kept the jewellery for reasons that were shallow I just didnt know what to do with it. I contemplated giving them away to my younger cousins but the thought of them wearing jewellery from those guys gave me the creeps, so I just stuffed it away in a dusty corner of my room to be forgotten. Its not like I wore it or took it out to look at it from time to time.

Anyway it turns out that I dont have it anymore. I must have gotten rid of it all the last time I cleared out my room coz its not there anymore!!

Plus Im always going to have those memories of the other guys regardless of whether I have their stuff or not. I wouldnt trade in those memories. They taught me a lot about what I want and dont want in a relationship. I went through a lot of crap and a lot of good times and they made me stronger. Those guys are in the past I didnt love them but they are in my past regardless. I cant wipe that out and I dont want to they are no threat to my current relationship. I only think of those guys and thank god that I now have a man who is a million times better than them!

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With significant others who share our ideas I really couldn't complain to hold onto relics of the past. If you were to look on those old letters everyday I might start to worry.

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I would not be okay with it. The only thing that should stick around are the lessons learned from previous relationships. Like Claire was saying, if a relationship wasn't special enough to last, then it has no place in the present. To me, this is an issue of respecting the feelings of the person you are with and I for one would uncomfortable at anything that would conjure up fond memories of a failed relationship. Especially in a marriage, the preservation of it is top priority and anything that could invite doubt and feelings of jealous should be removed. What if it was a picture of your spouse and an ex which was taken shortly after their first kiss in their life? I sure as hell don't want my wife to reminisce about that and possibly make me feel like I'm being compared to. Like it or not, a romantic relationship/marriage is possessive by design and we all want to feel like we are the only ones who occupy the minds and hearts of our significant others.

I also want to address the issue from another POV. If I had a previous relationship with someone I once cared about, I would not want to be responsible, directly or indirectly, for being a wedge in my ex's current relationship. Even though I never actually dated before, I've had my fair share of crushes. I have bought gifts for girls I've cared deeply for in my pathetic attempts to court them, but I sincerely hope they did not keep any of them. I do not want something I bought for them to get in the way of any of their relationships with their boyfriends or husbands. I would feel terrible if it did.

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All this would lead to is your wife not telling you what was a gift from an Ex so you don't get uncomfortable and jealous when seeing it. Would you rather live in ignorance?

No I wouldn't. If she did this to me, then I hope she could live with the fact that she would be deceiving a husband who was completely honest with her. My future wife should be comfortable with talking to me about anything and if she wasn't, I wouldn't want to marry her in the first place. Now I can't force her to get rid of anything that belongs to her, but I would hope that she will respect my concerns and understand how this would bother me.

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Okay I am going to bring this up with my boyfriend. I honestly would not want to have anything in my possession that would hurt his feelings. The only things I do have is photos. I honestly think he wont mind at all because I know he is secure of my love for him and he isnt a jealous person, he is very warm hearted and generous. But simply because he is so great I dont want to have anything that will hurt him.

But EB most of the photos I have of past boyfriends, actually all of them, are not pictures of cosy cosy dates but more group events like debs ball (ie prom) birthdays, graduations from universities. They are more photos of the big events in my life and not just photos of my relationships. None of them are very cosy cosy and most of them we are pictured in the midst of a big group of friends or family. I dont in all honesty think that my boyfriend would have a problem with these pictures. I might show them to him and get his opinion....if he wants me to get rid of a few I will certainly do so coz he is the number 1 priority in my life.

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Okay I am going to bring this up with my boyfriend. I honestly would not want to have anything in my possession that would hurt his feelings. The only things I do have is photos. I honestly think he wont mind at all because I know he is secure of my love for him and he isnt a jealous person, he is very warm hearted and generous. But simply because he is so great I dont want to have anything that will hurt him.

But EB most of the photos I have of past boyfriends, actually all of them, are not pictures of cosy cosy dates but more group events like debs ball (ie prom) birthdays, graduations from universities. They are more photos of the big events in my life and not just photos of my relationships. None of them are very cosy cosy and most of them we are pictured in the midst of a big group of friends or family. I dont in all honesty think that my boyfriend would have a problem with these pictures. I might show them to him and get his opinion....if he wants me to get rid of a few I will certainly do so coz he is the number 1 priority in my life.

Now that's the spirit! I'm glad that you made this decision.

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if he wants me to get rid of a few I will certainly do so coz he is the number 1 priority in my life.

AAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!!! Yay for love! :wub:

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A woman will feel comfortable talking to her husband about something if she feels her husband will understand.

If you consider your feelings only to matter then by all means don't get married but if you'd like to consider her feelings you may find out that this object has sentimental value to her. And asking her to just toss it, is insensitive.

She wants to keep this object because it means something to her.

Now i think, as a guy, you want to know WHY does it mean so much to her if she's now happy in a loving relationship?

And my question to you is:

Why would this object bother YOU if you were secure in a happy and loving relationship with your wife?

I don't think it's because you would doubt your wife's happiness in the marriage because she's kept this object. I think it's because of YOUR insecurity. It has nothing to do with her.

The object represents a period in her growing life, reminds her of a happy time in her life, with fond memories. Do you want her to forget all of her happy memories of those that came before you?

All because you feel insecure and think that those memories are somehow better or a threat to the ones that you will make with your wife? that's ridiculous and honestly a little bit selfish.

*sigh. Alright Naturally, you're right. I can swallow my pride and acknowledge what you said made a lot of sense. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong and maybe this would stem from some form of insecurity. I don't have any experience with dating so the idea of keeping things from past relationships is foreign to me. I just feel like I'd be at a crossroad trying to balance out keeping the relationship safe while at the same time respecting her feelings and not act controlling. To me, it's hard to imagine anyone looking at memorabilia without them reigniting positive feelings about their exes. That just doesn't settle well with me especially since I'm trying to purge any memories I have of girls I've cared about in the past to reserve them for my wife only. But if she tells me she has completely moved on from the past, then I will believe her.

Well, I don't really know what I'm trying to say anymore except thank you for giving me some perspective.

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A woman will feel comfortable talking to her husband about something if she feels her husband will understand.

If you consider your feelings only to matter then by all means don't get married but if you'd like to consider her feelings you may find out that this object has sentimental value to her. And asking her to just toss it, is insensitive.

She wants to keep this object because it means something to her.

Now i think, as a guy, you want to know WHY does it mean so much to her if she's now happy in a loving relationship?

And my question to you is:

Why would this object bother YOU if you were secure in a happy and loving relationship with your wife?

I don't think it's because you would doubt your wife's happiness in the marriage because she's kept this object. I think it's because of YOUR insecurity. It has nothing to do with her.

The object represents a period in her growing life, reminds her of a happy time in her life, with fond memories. Do you want her to forget all of her happy memories of those that came before you?

All because you feel insecure and think that those memories are somehow better or a threat to the ones that you will make with your wife? that's ridiculous and honestly a little bit selfish.

A huge *roll-eyes* at all of this.

This argument (your use of "insecure" is especially suspicious) is no better than the argument that you're insecure if you refuse to marry a non-virgin, and is subject to the same rebuttal. If we're married, she's in no position to reminisce about past men. And I refuse to share her attention with her 'feelings' for past men. It's all or nothing. I'm not letting her have both me and someone else's happy memory. She has to make a choice. It's me, or him/them.

I mean, I can think of this..."And then there was this man. Our relationship was such a happy one, but then he left me. So then I fell in love in this man...." One would think that the woman in question also isn't a virgin.

But, also, we're married. Am I not good enough for her 'feelings'? She shouldn't need multiple men (or the memories of multiple men) in order to satisfy her 'feelings'. If she refuses to COMMIT to me, to the point of getting rid of all other men, I'm not giving her a ring.

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A huge *roll-eyes* at all of this.

No need to be so sarky. We are all entitled to have our opinions. I for one totally agree with Naturally. And for the record, my boyfriend looked at me as if I had 10 heads when I brought this up. He nearly got offended that I thought he was so insecure that he would mind if I had a few photos of people who were once in my life. He was actually interested to see the photos and happily concluded that he doesnt know what I saw in them....and followed it up with a big "your mine" kiss!! :D

It was actually quite a happy moment that brought us closer together!

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This argument (your use of "insecure" is especially suspicious) is no better than the argument that you're insecure if you refuse to marry a non-virgin, and is subject to the same rebuttal. If we're married, she's in no position to reminisce about past men. And I refuse to share her attention with her 'feelings' for past men. It's all or nothing. I'm not letting her have both me and someone else's happy memory. She has to make a choice. It's me, or him/them.

I dont think you're dealing with reality at all. You cant wipe out someone's past. Nor should you want to it's part of who they are just like your past is a part of you.

"If we're married, she's in no position to reminisce about past men"...Im sorry but that sounds like you want to control her thoughts. That's not an ingredient of a healthy relationship.

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I dont think you're dealing with reality at all. You cant wipe out someone's past. Nor should you want to it's part of who they are just like your past is a part of you.

"If we're married, she's in no position to reminisce about past men"...Im sorry but that sounds like you want to control her thoughts. That's not an ingredient of a healthy relationship.

It's not an ingredient of a healthy relationship to keep "memories" of anyone other than your spouse. It's also not morally right. I mean, who does she love, and who is her husband, me or her memories? I'm not confused regarding what's healthy and what isn't. If I date a woman but end up not marrying her, it's not a memory worth keeping, and I expect the same of any woman I date/marry.

As far as "controlling her thoughts": No, that's not correct. I don't intend on controlling her thoughts; I hope the woman I end up marrying will have the same opinion as I do from the very beginning, so that we don't have to have any argument.

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It's not an ingredient of a healthy relationship to keep "memories" of anyone other than your spouse. It's also not morally right.

I think you are confusing memories with feelings. Memories cannot be erradicated unless you hit your head hard or something. It is not morally wrong to have memories. They are not something that can be helped. If your spouse has feelings for an ex well then that's something different.

I guess keeping photos is morally wrong to you, if those are your beliefs. I have to respect that. But to me keeping photos is not wrong morally or otherwise. They are just a (fairly sporadic) log of my life, kind of like a journal or diary. They are not the key to some secret locked away feelings for my past boyfriends they are simply a record. I dont see the problem with it and as long as my boyfriend is okay with it then I'm happy.

Im sorry if i sounded a bit harsh in my previous posts but I was a bit angry at your rolling eyes comment to Naturally. I thought it was disrespectful. Everyone is different and is entitled to their own opinions, if we were all the same the world would be a boring place.

I hope you find your like-minded woman!! All the best

MM

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