Sophie

Why DO we always dig the bad boys?

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I've seen it in movies, television; read it in books; seen it in plays; experienced it with celebrity and fictional crushes...what is it about bad boys that girls just love? In the media, there is the stereotype that bad boys are always very attractive, but in real life I find they come in all different physical appearances, so I don't think looks are a huge contributing factor. Why do we females have a tendency to swoon after the bad boys, and friend-zone the good guys? of course, I am just speaking on average here.

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Someone else commented on this before, but it definitly has to do with aspects of unpredictability and spontanaeity. It is the mystery that is intriguing. Those type of guys are typically more 'adventurous' so to speak so it is the qualities that we are attracted to....other guys have them, but they don't broadcast them so much.

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So, Sophie. I know this is in "ask the girls" but here's what I "learned":

1. It depends on the type of girl. This is just MHO and I can be completely wrong, but the girls that always go for the bad boys are the girls who typically aren't marriage material, or relationship material. They also usually have low self esteem. They go for bad boys because bad boys treat them... you guessed it, badly

2. Good girls do occasionally fall for the bad guy, but they learn. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.

3. Emotions play a big part of it. Generally speaking, women are more emotional. Bad boys are master manipulators and frighteningly good at playing with women's emotions. Hot and cold, I like you but I really don't, backhanded compliments etc. etc.

Awesome! This is really good, O! I personally don't like when guys play on other friends emotions or mine--I'm just like he's really not worth your time if he makes you fee like s***, upset, etc. Not to say that you'll never be upset with a bf/fiance/husband, but you hopefully get my drift. "If the bad outweighs the good, it's time to get out." (Frank advice I gave my sister on a bf awhile ago)

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Thanks olivier for sharing your story, and what you learned! I think your comments possess some merit. Awesome!

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Fascinating story, Olivier! I've never had an attraction to the 'bad boy' image-- I actually find it to be a huge turn off, so I don't have much to contribute... but I really like this topic :)

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I think (or hope) the main reason is that women find the stereotypical "bad boy" to be more assertive, and therefore, more appealing.

I don't think men and women see 20/20 when it comes to determining the difference between arrogance and confidence. It's pretty blurry.

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One of the things I like about this community is that we don't judge. So, I ask that those of you that read this not judge me :-)

Senior year of college. There was this girl I liked, and I treated her pretty well. We were friends but I definitely flirted with her, respectfully, to kinda let her know I was interested. One night, she was ridiculously drunk and having trouble walking, I extended my arm to help her and she replied "No, I can't hurt you". For purposes of brevity, I'll say that on that same night she hooked up with my housemate (whom she didn't even know), and the very next night she performed oral sex on the guy who lived on the next block.

For the next couple of days I prayed that I wouldn't feel badly about it and it worked; my genuine feelings for this girl disappeared. Instead of doing the mature thing and exiting this situation,I decided I wanted to do a little "social experiment". I noticed that lots of girls were going for the "bad boy" so I decided to become a bad boy. And my first target would be this girl who I used to have feelings for... I wanted revenge and it didn't even occur to me that I was using God's healing to do wrong.

So, for the next several weeks it was a complete 180. I was a complete jerk to this girl. I'd enter a party and she'd be so incredibly happy to see me and I wouldn't even say hi to her. Her face would drop with hurt. Other times I would make fun of her. Then other times I would say really nice things.

Well...I guess you could say I was "successful"? I kissed/kinda made out with this girl on several occasions...yay? I was shocked at how it worked. One timeshe told me she would get so nervous just text messaging me... she liked me after I started treating her like dirt. She legitimately had feelings for me.

Eventually I stopped being something I wasn't. I guess the icing on the cake was when a female acquaintance of mine, a girl with a *cough* reputation (35 guys) said that she had noticed a "change" in me and that "the old Olivier was fine"

I know lots of people say "no regrets" b/c they learned but IMHO it's okay to have regrets. I regret this experiment because whatever I "learned" could have been learned via more productive means, not through hurting someone and being untrue to myself.

So, Sophie. I know this is in "ask the girls" but here's what I "learned":

1. It depends on the type of girl. This is just MHO and I can be completely wrong, but the girls that always go for the bad boys are the girls who typically aren't marriage material, or relationship material. They also usually have low self esteem. They go for bad boys because bad boys treat them... you guessed it, badly

2. Good girls do occasionally fall for the bad guy, but they learn. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.

3. Emotions play a big part of it. Generally speaking, women are more emotional. Bad boys are master manipulators and frighteningly good at playing with women's emotions. Hot and cold, I like you but I really don't, backhanded compliments etc. etc.

Please don't judge. It was VERY long ago, it was just a phase, and I'm absolutely nothing like that now. So don't judge :-(

Oh yeah, did I mention not to judge?

Wow Oliver that was a great post man.
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I think (or hope) the main reason is that women find the stereotypical "bad boy" to be more assertive, and therefore, more appealing.

I don't think men and women see 20/20 when it comes to determining the difference between arrogance and confidence. It's pretty blurry.

This is also Very true. It's a very VERY fine line between the two.

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The following is just my theory on the subject. . .

It is ingraied into DNA for a woman to be attracted to the Alpha male. He is big, he is strong, he smashes things with sticks and brings back food for the winter. He protects the cave from the wilderbeasts. Fast forward to today. Womens rights, shifting of gender roles and a changing of needs due to civilization and technology. Pair this with a shocking rate of single mothers raising boys without a male role model and a female teacher dominated education system boys are growing up putting too much stock into Beta traits. It is looked down upon for men to let their testosterone a chance to breathe. Lest they be called sexist or worse. But lets face it ladies. There is a physical attraction from the Alpha traits.

WITH THAT SAID. . . women's needs are no longer just food on the table and saftey in a big strong mans arms. They are emotional now. My oppinion is a modern man must balance Alpha and Beta traits. Know when to grunt and know when to cook a candle lit dinner. Know when to put your foot down and not be a door mat and when to do a load of laundry or give a foot massage to give your lady some relaxation time. Know when to bash something with a stick till its fixed or when to just shut up and listen and let her vent.

Commence with the angry retorts :P

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Olivier - we all learn various lessons in various ways - some of them may not make us terribly proud in re-telling them.... :huh: I for one could never throw a stone of judgment on that - and I am proud of you for telling the story. I always had that feeling as a younger guy - how come guys who seem to treat girls with no respect and/or are just those Bad Boys that I could never really be... how come they get they seem to get The Girl?

(I think it's the guy version of girls' questions about how come guys go after certain types of girls...)

I also think ComputerFox's add is a lively addition... the mix of Alpha & Beta... I think there's an element of "I wish" from Beta guys (that they mixed in some Alpha behavior) and it's probably the comment Alpha guys hear from gf's after a while...

My favorite part of your story is the comment from a friend that "the old Olivier was just fine"... ^_^ wise advice. being yourself can be the most attractive overall... but Olivier... THANK YOU for sharing that story... because I know how i figured it out too and I know I would also lead and exit telling that story with your phrase "no judging please!".........

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on second thought... your honesty deserves equal honesty. my version of your story is also senior year of college... I wanted a gf. junior year I had broken up with a girl that I really loved, but it was a joint parting and in the end it was ok, but it was empty afterwards. senior year started and I wanted a gf - it was senior year! - and among my friends there was a girl I was friendly with and she with me, and we started going out... and dating became an eventual I love you... but the truth is I was steeling myself a bit, and wasn't really looking for the deep version of a relationship, of a gf, or of a full i love you. I'm far from proud about how this went... she really did like me - a LOT - and I liked her - but NOT a lot... and senior year was filled with dates, and formals, and all that other stuff... and I was a "couple"...

but I really wasn't.

It's not the Bad Boy behavior of treating her poorly or rudely... but it was the Bad Boy behavior of not being fully honest about my feelings. She wanted more physically (not sex, but further on the bases than we were going), and I held back... I didn't really feel that way about her...

and then eventually towards yearend, I broke it off with her. It went... well..... I'm sure you can imagine. FAR from my proudest relationship or self-respect moment.

Lots of lessons out of that... not the least of which was to be who I was, and to be sincere and honest about how I felt (or didn't) with a girl. I owed it to her - and to myself.

You were honest about a not-great moment in your relationship past... or on your journey to finding your future wife... and I wanted to respect your honesty with a moment of my own that wasn't really all that great either. We live to be better people every day... I'm certain you are a better guy as well. :-)

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I've seen it in movies, television; read it in books; seen it in plays; experienced it with celebrity and fictional crushes...what is it about bad boys that girls just love? In the media, there is the stereotype that bad boys are always very attractive, but in real life I find they come in all different physical appearances, so I don't think looks are a huge contributing factor. Why do we females have a tendency to swoon after the bad boys, and friend-zone the good guys? of course, I am just speaking on average here.

They're what's called 'alpha'.

There's a circle of Web sites called the manosphere where this issue is discussed a lot. The conventional wisdom is that men run a spectrum, with 'alpha' at the top being the bad boys that get all the women, followed by the 'beta' nice guy who always gets friend-zoned, followed by the 'omega' at the bottom who's the 'loser' in dating.

However, there's one writer (whom I very much respect) who rejects this idea. He sees things two-dimensionally, with Alpha and Beta being separate traits (and advising men to have both of them).

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I agree with that saying that the girls that go for the bad boy are ones with self esteem issues. I forgot what psychologist said it but i think it was froyd who said it that you date people who are like your parents? So if your dad or mother was always unavailable or wasnt to loving, etc

You would seek someone out like that subconciously without knowing it because you would want there attention without knowing it.

Please do correct me if am wrong.

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Computerfox, when were womens needs not emotional? You said they are NOW...

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1. It depends on the type of girl. This is just MHO and I can be completely wrong, but the girls that always go for the bad boys are the girls who typically aren't marriage material, or relationship material. They also usually have low self esteem. They go for bad boys because bad boys treat them... you guessed it, badly

2. Good girls do occasionally fall for the bad guy, but they learn. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.

3. Emotions play a big part of it. Generally speaking, women are more emotional. Bad boys are master manipulators and frighteningly good at playing with women's emotions. Hot and cold, I like you but I really don't, backhanded compliments etc. etc.

It also sounds like there's a big aura of mystery around the bad boy - like something unseeable and untouchable. I think girls tend to like that in any type of guy, so that's why shy guys can be pretty popular too. From what I understand, mysterious girls tend to just annoy the hell out of guys. lol. There are theories that girls want to "change" bad boys, but I don't actually think that at all. Girls like to try to convert the playboy into monogamy, but being a playboy doesn't automatically equal "bad boy." Think Joey Tribiani from Friends (if you've ever seen the show.)

Anyways, thank you for your response!

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Nah, I don't really go for bad boys...

There are theories that girls want to "change" bad boys, but I don't actually think that at all. Girls like to try to convert the playboy into monogamy, but being a playboy doesn't automatically equal "bad boy." Think Joey Tribiani from Friends (if you've ever seen the show.)

Hmm...When it comes to the Joeys in life, I'd just keep them as a friend. Those sort of guys enjoy being a playboy too much to want to change...

xxx

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One of the things I like about this community is that we don't judge. So, I ask that those of you that read this not judge me :-)

Senior year of college. There was this girl I liked, and I treated her pretty well. We were friends but I definitely flirted with her, respectfully, to kinda let her know I was interested. One night, she was ridiculously drunk and having trouble walking, I extended my arm to help her and she replied "No, I can't hurt you". For purposes of brevity, I'll say that on that same night she hooked up with my housemate (whom she didn't even know), and the very next night she performed oral sex on the guy who lived on the next block.

For the next couple of days I prayed that I wouldn't feel badly about it and it worked; my genuine feelings for this girl disappeared. Instead of doing the mature thing and exiting this situation,I decided I wanted to do a little "social experiment". I noticed that lots of girls were going for the "bad boy" so I decided to become a bad boy. And my first target would be this girl who I used to have feelings for... I wanted revenge and it didn't even occur to me that I was using God's healing to do wrong.

So, for the next several weeks it was a complete 180. I was a complete jerk to this girl. I'd enter a party and she'd be so incredibly happy to see me and I wouldn't even say hi to her. Her face would drop with hurt. Other times I would make fun of her. Then other times I would say really nice things.

Well...I guess you could say I was "successful"? I kissed/kinda made out with this girl on several occasions...yay? I was shocked at how it worked. One timeshe told me she would get so nervous just text messaging me... she liked me after I started treating her like dirt. She legitimately had feelings for me.

Eventually I stopped being something I wasn't. I guess the icing on the cake was when a female acquaintance of mine, a girl with a *cough* reputation (35 guys) said that she had noticed a "change" in me and that "the old Olivier was fine"

I know lots of people say "no regrets" b/c they learned but IMHO it's okay to have regrets. I regret this experiment because whatever I "learned" could have been learned via more productive means, not through hurting someone and being untrue to myself.

So, Sophie. I know this is in "ask the girls" but here's what I "learned":

1. It depends on the type of girl. This is just MHO and I can be completely wrong, but the girls that always go for the bad boys are the girls who typically aren't marriage material, or relationship material. They also usually have low self esteem. They go for bad boys because bad boys treat them... you guessed it, badly

2. Good girls do occasionally fall for the bad guy, but they learn. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.

3. Emotions play a big part of it. Generally speaking, women are more emotional. Bad boys are master manipulators and frighteningly good at playing with women's emotions. Hot and cold, I like you but I really don't, backhanded compliments etc. etc.

Please don't judge. It was VERY long ago, it was just a phase, and I'm absolutely nothing like that now. So don't judge :-(

Oh yeah, did I mention not to judge?

omg Olivier!!!!!!!!! Yeah you basically summed it up!!! Omg! I was totally one of those girls who digged the "bad boys." I was in that immature, fun, and flirty stage and even though I had my convictions of wtm I probably wouldn't have made it thus far because I loved the chase and thrill of turning down the "bad boys" when they'd walk all proud and puffed up! :lol: It was soo funny to me once I get them caught up in my little web :lol: but I don't do that anymore so yeah I was def. one of those girls but I wouldn't do anything just a major tease and thought it was so funny and I was mean to boys and they were jerks so it was like a game for the both of us! Had to learn the hard way though :( but yeah you pretty much summed everything up.

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Nah, I don't really go for bad boys...

Hmm...When it comes to the Joeys in life, I'd just keep them as a friend. Those sort of guys enjoy being a playboy too much to want to change...

xxx

Yeah. Most people - girls and guys - eventually lose satisfaction with casual sex and casual relationships, and do desire to settle down. This tends to happen in the late-twenties, especially for girls because their biological clock begins to wane starting at age 32, I believe, so their brain starts to send signals to settle down and have children. From what I've seen, if a guy is still in his playboy stage by his mid-30's, avoid him completely. It won't be going away for a long time, and he's probably super immature.

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Yeah. Most people - girls and guys - eventually lose satisfaction with casual sex and casual relationships, and do desire to settle down. This tends to happen in the late-twenties, especially for girls because their biological clock begins to wane starting at age 32, I believe, so their brain starts to send signals to settle down and have children. From what I've seen, if a guy is still in his playboy stage by his mid-30's, avoid him completely. It won't be going away for a long time, and he's probably super immature.

This really hits home for me. I have a story to tell about a girl I once cared for who spent most of her twenties chasing bad boys but ended up in a, shall we say, less than ideal state. This story make make me sound bitter and I may sound like sound like a douche, but that is not my intention. I just felt I was being honest with myself. You can be the judge as to whether I was right or wrong, because even I wonder sometimes. So here goes:

When I was 21, I was friends with this girl who I liked more than a friend. She was a little immature and lacked self esteem but she was a sweet girl nonetheless. She, like many girls her age was drawn to the excitement of the bad boy. She has been hurt before by relationships with bad boys but she kept on going for them. Now me being the nice guy, was always there for her when she needed a shoulder to cry on, only to watch her going back for more. I kept my feelings for her a secret until she started mentioning the latest bad boy she was eyeing. I couldn't bear the thought of her getting hurt again so I decided to say something. I was naive back then and I thought maybe there was hope that she'd feel the same about me. She was shocked to say the least, but said she didn't feel the same way. I was hurt by the rejection but it was even worse seeing her run away with that bad boy she was chasing. In time, she started being cold towards me and treated me like crap. I knew she was pushing me away for confessing my feelings to her and eventually, we drifted apart and lost touch.

I didn't see her again until I ran into her five years later at a shopping mall. She had a daughter since last I saw her who was 2-years-old. She also gain a LOT of weight. It was a really awkward reunion but she seemed ecstatic to see me. We sat down to catch up. It turns out she had her daughter with the last bad boy she was chasing before we parted ways. The same guy she rejected me to be with. This guy apparently was very abusive towards her (big surprise) both physically and emotionally. They severed ties and she is now a single mother struggling to support her daughter. Throughout our conversation, she cried and said she deeply regretted the way she treated me before we parted ways years ago. She then asked me if I could give her a second chance to be together. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. In fact, I felt downright insulted. I already forgave her a long time ago and was even willing to be friends again, but I was offended that she would even think she could have a second chance in a relationship with me. Here is where I may come off as a jerk.

I was offended because I felt like her "second choice guy." Since her first choice (the bad boy) didn't work out, she decides to settle for me, the backup guy. I know the past is past, but I could never shake the memory that she chose some other guy over me. It doesn't make me feel valued in her eyes. She was so willing to give herself to freely to a bad boy when she was young, good-looking and free of emotional baggage. Now she is an emotional wreck, has a child who's father left them and doesn't look good anymore (she didn't take care of herself) and probably expects me to just take her back so that I will take care of her child for her. I hate to sound cynical, but she has given me no reason to believe otherwise. Am I expected to believe she went from wanting nothing to do with me to one day all the sudden have real genuine feelings for me? Sorry, I'm not buying it. I think I deserve better than that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not basing her worth on her looks or whatever, but I refused to be second place in her heart. As I said, I would have been fine being friends with her, but she does not deserve a second chance at my heart if she values me so little.

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She then asked me if I could give her a second chance to be together. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. In fact, I felt downright insulted. I already forgave her a long time ago and was even willing to be friends again, but I was offended that she would even think she could have a second chance in a relationship with me. Here is where I may come off as a jerk.

I was offended because I felt like her "second choice guy." Since her first choice (the bad boy) didn't work out, she decides to settle for me, the backup guy. I know the past is past, but I could never shake the memory that she chose some other guy over me. It doesn't make me feel valued in her eyes. She was so willing to give herself to freely to a bad boy when she was young, good-looking and free of emotional baggage. Now she is an emotional wreck, has a child who's father left them and doesn't look good anymore (she didn't take care of herself) and probably expects me to just take her back so that I will take care of her child for her. I hate to sound cynical, but she has given me no reason to believe otherwise. Am I expected to believe she went from wanting nothing to do with me to one day all the sudden have real genuine feelings for me? Sorry, I'm not buying it. I think I deserve better than that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not basing her worth on her looks or whatever, but I refused to be second place in her heart. As I said, I would have been fine being friends with her, but she does not deserve a second chance at my heart if she values me so little.

I bolded a few parts that really stood out to me. Your story is not douche-y, because you were always there for her and were willing to forgive and be friends after all that. That is the most important part. As far as a significant other though, you deserve someone you values you, respects you, and comes first, not second. That is very understandable. Also, she does not sound like she is in a place to provide for someone else's needs. (I'm not talking sex here just to make that clear) She sounds like she is a mess and really needs a friend to help babysit so she can have "me" time or get out of the house with her; not a serious relationship.

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I bolded a few parts that really stood out to me. Your story is not douche-y, because you were always there for her and were willing to forgive and be friends after all that. That is the most important part. As far as a significant other though, you deserve someone you values you, respects you, and comes first, not second. That is very understandable. Also, she does not sound like she is in a place to provide for someone else's needs. (I'm not talking sex here just to make that clear) She sounds like she is a mess and really needs a friend to help babysit so she can have "me" time or get out of the house with her; not a serious relationship.

That's what I think too. I don't care that she loved and dated other guys. The issue here is that she chose someone else over me. Not just that, but she had her fun with the bad boy and gave him everything she could offer and I'm stuck cleaning her mess. That doesn't exactly make me feel loved and valued. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt and think she genuinely wants me back, but given the circumstances, I have no reason to believe her. I've been taken advantaged of many times in the past and saying that I hate it doesn't even begin to describe my true feelings.

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Cold shoulder eh OHG... Don't worry I'll get your coat to warm it up :-P

I don't really know what it is about bad boys but I say probably confidence... After all who will the woman notice more the guy who goes and talks to her... Or the guy staring at her from a distance (and who'll creep her out lol)

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