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Jegsy Scarr

Do you think they should promote WTM in schools more?

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Hi guys!

So I was reading this other topic "Why should I wait" about reasons people should give to their friends about their decision to wait, when I came across this little bit:

Even schools aren't promoting abstinence much, they merely mention it. Which is quite sad actually.

And I just thought, "As if!" Here in the UK, you're lucky if your school even mentions it! Just in the last couple of weeks, the Government here (Conservative Party/Liberal Democrat Party coalition. I ask you, how can you have a conservative - liberal coalition?) appointed to their sexual health committee one member who wanted to promote abstinence-until-marriage in high schools. And guess what? There's been outrage from people everywhere in the newspapers, on the television and on the internet. Everyone seems to believe that:

1. It's not realistic to teach teenagers about waiting till marriage

2. It's all about controlling women

3. Only religious freaks believe in waiting till marriage now

4. The only reason people waited in the past was because they didn't want to have a child out-of-wedlock. Now there's contraception, so there is no valid reason why sex should wait until marriage.

Okay, so my opinion on each of these is:

1. It's true that most people don't wait until marriage to have sex. But we have to teach teenagers that they have the option of waiting. I mean, schools today seem to promote everything about sex except WTM. The educational TV programs for teenagers are all too quick to promote contraception, ways to have fun with sex safely, what to do abot sexually transmitted diseases and stuff (personally, that'd be enought to put me off it). So it isn't fair that teens aren't given all the options, including that they have the choice to wait.

2. I can say from my own experiences as a young Catholic that this is a load of BS. If anything, I think the opposite is true. Everywhere you look - music videos are the worst for this - you see women being portrayed as nothing but objects, you know the kind of thing: doing little erotic dances around the men, wearing skirts so short you could mistake them for belts. I think the idea is that they're trying to celebrate women's sexuality, but all they're succeeding in doing is completely dehumanising women. I mean, from the way we get portrayed sometimes, you'd think we were just a load of life-support systems for vaginas.

3.Obviously not true. I'm sure I don't even need to argue this one: there are enough Athiests and Agnostics on this site to show that's not the case.

4. Again, if anything, I think the sexual revolution has made this worse. A recent survey showed that in Scotland today, 50% of babies are born to unmarried parents. 50 percent! I mean, what the hell? Does nobody do it in this order anymore: Meet, fall in love, get married, have a baby? One reason I think this is the case is because our society's so obsessed with sex that young people are just doing it because everyone else is. And it doesn't matter how much the Government tries to promote safe sex, there's just some people that really don't care about it, or still think they won't be the ones who get pregnant. I'm Catholic, so I don't believe in contaception, which a lot of people just don't understand. Surely, even if you take the whole 'it's a sin' argument out of the equation, there's still a huge reason why it's wrong: because it doesn't always work. Who's seen that Friends episode where they find out condoms are only 97% effective? If you think about it like that, it makes sense why so many people in Scotland seem to be having babies outside of marriage. Yes, that's only a small percentage of ineffectiveness, but if the average age people start having sex in the UK is 16.5 (oh, I'm so ashamed of my roots right now!), then you can figure out for yourself, that's going to be a whole lot of babies! And since marriage rates are declining because no one seems to see marriage as relevant anymore...

I realise this has turned into a rant. Oh well. Feel free to post your own rant below! What I really wanted to know was, do you think that schools should teach WTM, even if it's just teaching them that it's okay to wait. Also, it'd be interesting to know what the schools teach in different areas of the world.

Thanks for reading all this!

xxx

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Haha, that post you read was mine. At my highschool (in Canada) they did give the option of waiting until marriage. Someone asked why would someone do that, and the class had an open discussion about it. But I got the vibe that even the teachers didn't really believe in that. Here in Ontario, you are at least given the option of it but no one really supports it. I'm pretty sure they just say it because it is in our curriculum. Instead, they spend the majority of the class like you said, how to have safe sex and options for pregnancy. They make it seem totally okay for people my age to engage in sexual activity. A friend of mine just found out she is pregnant, she is 14. 14, and she is pregnant! and from here on her life has changed, no matter her choice. Even with abortion, she has to live with the fact that she killed a human being. She can't take it back now, and later down the road her and her boyfriend are likely to break up a good relationship because of this child. I think the reasons you mentioned for not teaching kids about this is absolutely absurd! My other friend lost her virginity with her boyfriend, and a few weeks later he left her. Now he's "dating" some new girl. Society is sick now, they have no respect for themselves, or they just don't care about the consequences. And some people my age think they are "in love" and will one day marry this guy. You're kidding me, right? You're just fooling yourself so you don't feel bad about giving into your hormones. I realize mine has also turned into a small rant, but I just can't believe it. People say you should "test the car" because the divorce rate is so high now a days. Think about it, back then (when the divorce rate was lower) people waited until marriage, now it's higher when people don't. They say alot of divorces happen due to sex problems, well if you didn't wait then why are there any problems in the first place!? If you wait, you have nothing to compare to, you learn together, you aren't thinking of someone else, you don't often lose the urge to after marriage, the connection is so much greater, the list goes on. The chance of incompatibility is small and that can be worked through. To me, there are SO many more advantages to wait, so why wouldn't they teach this in schools when it's the best option. Just my 2 cents :)

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Why wouldn't they teach this in schools when it's the best option?

Part of the reason is that most people haven't waited, including adults. It's hard to teach people about something that you didn't do yourself. The only people that could really advocate this is people who have lived it. We're so rare that it's not likely that any of us will ever be in a position to teach it. I think this website is currently one of the best tools we have to 'spread the word.'

Even famous celebrities who have chosen to wait don't speak out about it for fear of being ostracized. I agree with you that society is sick. I, personally, don't see things ever improving either. I don't know what that means for the future but unless something very radical happens things will just continue to slide downhill. The only thing we can do is hold fast to our decision and let our lives be examples to others. We must stand as lighthouses amidst a dark and violent sea.

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Part of the reason is that most people haven't waited, including adults. It's hard to teach people about something that you didn't do yourself.

Mmm, good point there. Very true. I think though, they should at least propose the option in all schools, whether or not they really have a discussion about it.

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I agree, of course as I"m sure most of us on this site would =P I think by bringing up the option, we may be able to convince some teens to delay sex longer, if not until marriage. My goal would be to try and have less and less middle school/high schoolers have sex, and postpone until college or more serious relationship. When we get them to think of the emotional aspects, it will probably be a nice change of perspective. Many may not agree, but some teens may find a choice that fits them better instead of trying to "get rid of it".

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Wow, I wasn't expecting this many replies overnight! I posted this at like, 11:00 at night or something, and I really didn't expect there to be so many replies in like, twelve hours or so. I guess that since the UK is a few hours ahead of the USA, and most of the users of this site are from the USA or Canada, it means I can post stuff really late at night for me, late afternoon to you!

Thanks for your replies!

Sarah Elizabeth

Yeah, it was your post, I was just too caught in the moment of "I must write this, this has to be read!" that I didn't go back to check!

from here on her life has changed, no matter her choice. Even with abortion, she has to live with the fact that she killed a human being.

I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. I think the whole "Pro Choice" thing is absurd: nobody actually wants to have an abortion. I found this quote online by someone called Frederica Mathewes-Green:

"No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg."

I don't think there's much I can say to help, except maybe just that it doesn't make your friend a bad person, and it's not like she's evil or anything. God understands that we do things when we're scared, and He certainly doesn't want to punish your friend for what she did. He just wants to forgive her. She's His daughter, and He loves her, no matter what. He doesn't have any hands or a voice on Earth except ours, otherwise He'd give her a huge big hug and tell her everthing's okay. So maybe you could do that for Him instead.

People say you should "test the car" because the divorce rate is so high now a days.

How many times have we all heard that argument? I was looking on another website's forum where someone had asked about WTM, and this seriously clever guy made the argument that: "It's not like buying a car without test-driving it first. It's more like buying a car that's absolutely perfect for you in every way possible, but you haven't checked to see if the CD player works yet." Genius.

Leo

Part of the reason is that most people haven't waited, including adults. It's hard to teach people about something that you didn't do yourself.

That's something Mike mentioned in one of his articles, I think maybe the one about the top ten benefits of waiting, or something. I agree it's really difficult to wait when you don't know anyone else who's...

Hold that thought. I just remembered something: a few years ago at school one of the old retired science teachers came back for a few days to cover for some absent teachers. And he was the closest thing I think we've ever had in my school to a WTM lesson. The guy is about seventy, really funny and well known, someone who the students refer to as a "legend". And for one period, he tells us about how we shouldn't rush into sex just because everyone else is, whilst almost everyone in the class except me and maybe two other girls are cringing at this old man talking about sex! I don't know, I guess they think old people don't have sex. And to top it all off, he says "Did I have sex before I was married, you ask? (em, actually, nobody asked) Well, no..." then the bell rings so he doesn't get a chance to expand on it.

We're so rare that it's not likely that any of us will ever be in a position to teach it.

Well, we'll at least be able to teach our kids about it! Maybe they'll believe thast it's possible to wait if they have definitive proof of it themselves. They are definitive proof of it themselves!

We must stand as lighthouses amidst a dark and violent sea.

Oh, very nice!

Sally

I think that's a good idea, to tell them that it's better for them to wait until they're at least in a serious relationship, not just how to have safe-sex. Maybe it would be a little unrealistic to have abstinence-only education, but they really do have to promote that sex isn't something to be taken lightly.

Anyway, thank you all for your thoughts! Anyone else with an opinion, please reply, and I'll get back to you as fast as I can!

xxx

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I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. I think the whole "Pro Choice" thing is absurd: nobody actually wants to have an abortion. I found this quote online by someone called Frederica Mathewes-Green:

"No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg."

I don't think there's much I can say to help, except maybe just that it doesn't make your friend a bad person, and it's not like she's evil or anything. God understands that we do things when we're scared, and He certainly doesn't want to punish your friend for what she did. He just wants to forgive her. She's His daughter, and He loves her, no matter what. He doesn't have any hands or a voice on Earth except ours, otherwise He'd give her a huge big hug and tell her everthing's okay. So maybe you could do that for Him instead.

xxx

Oh, I know this, believe me. I am personally against abortion but i understand that if she makes that choice I should only support her in it and in no way does that make her a bad person, we all have different views. Although, I am pretty sure she is keeping the baby because she's the one who told me she didn't want to live with that guilt. She may not be a follower of God but I do hope he'll have some way of helping her through this.

How many times have we all heard that argument? I was looking on another website's forum where someone had asked about WTM, and this seriously clever guy made the argument that: "It's not like buying a car without test-driving it first. It's more like buying a car that's absolutely perfect for you in every way possible, but you haven't checked to see if the CD player works yet." Genius.

xxx

That is for sure genius! I absolutely hate that argument but that was a great point he made. Thanks for sharing.

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Sarah Elizabeth

Oh, you mean, she hasn't decided yet? From the way you were talking, I thought you meant she'd already gone through with it. Well, in that case, and if she thinks that she is going to keep the baby, then that's wonderful. I'm pro life, so I think that would definitely be the best option, whether she decides to keep the baby or give it up for adoption. Obviously, I'm not going to pretend that having the baby is going to be easy at such a young age, but there's nothing more precious than human life, and it's worth all the trouble in the world to protect it. Also I think that the alternative would be even more difficult, what with having that on her conscience the rest of her life. But, whatever she decides, it's going to be hard for her, and she's going to need all the support she can get from you to help her through it. So she'll still need that hug!

xxx

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I think though, they should at least propose the option in all schools, whether or not they really have a discussion about it.

I absolutely agree. I think it shouldn't be presented in a way that makes it seem like an adult is telling the kids what to do. It should be presented in a way that's offering advice to a younger generation. Adults should tell people that it's not about how to manage their lives but how to choose the type of life that they want. Statistically girls (and I'm sure boys as well) who have sex at a young age end up poor, single mothers, with a low life expectancy. Of course there's always exceptions but for the most part that's what will become of them.

"It's not like buying a car without test-driving it first. It's more like buying a car that's absolutely perfect for you in every way possible, but you haven't checked to see if the CD player works yet."

Ha this is awesome. :lol:

a few years ago at school one of the old retired science teachers came back for a few days to cover for some absent teachers. And he was the closest thing I think we've ever had in my school to a WTM lesson.

At my high school we actually had a guy come and speak to our whole school about sex. He had waited himself and was very enthusiastic and well received. I'd already chosen to wait at that point so I wasn't really in his target audience but I remember wondering how some of the teachers that were present (and hadn't waited) felt. A lot of the girls got emotional during the presentation and a lot of guys felt weird talking about that kind of stuff but I don't think it really affected anyone.

My highschool also did a program about drunk driving and half the school was crying during that assembly. Of course most of those people were drunk that weekend. Many people aren't capable or don't want to engage in self-reflective thought and therefore don't take future consequences into account when they make choices in the present.

Well, we'll at least be able to teach our kids about it! Maybe they'll believe thast it's possible to wait if they have definitive proof of it themselves. They are definitive proof of it themselves!

I can't wait to teach my kids! Honestly though, this is something I worry about. If I marry a woman who didn't wait what am I supposed to tell them? "Wait until marriage, I did and it was an excellent decision! Your mother didn't though she sure was busy when she was younger. :("

I think one upside to a mixed couple like that would be that the person who didn't wait could tell them how it made things more difficult and how they regret it. I have talked about this with the girl I'm currently dating and she's said that she's going to encourage her daughter to wait. I know she regrets the choices she made and she said that when it comes time she's going to emphasize the emotional aspect. She was unprepared for that part of it.

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Leo

I think it shouldn't be presented in a way that makes it seem like an adult is telling the kids what to do. It should be presented in a way that's offering advice to a younger generation.

Yeah, I think that's usually the reason teens don't tend to listen to the whole waiting till marriage thing, because often it's like they're trying to force the decision on them. It would be better if they gave them both sides: explained that yes, it is difficult to wait, but also gave them all of the facts and figures, scientific findings, etc. about why it pays off.

"It's not like buying a car without test-driving it first. It's more like buying a car that's absolutely perfect for you in every way possible, but you haven't checked to see if the CD player works yet."

I love this! I'm going to use it at every opportunity!

My highschool also did a program about drunk driving and half the school was crying during that assembly. Of course most of those people were drunk that weekend.

Well, I can totally relate to that! You know the whole stereotype about Scottish people being complete drunks? Well, it's obviously not true that we're all drunks! But the UK, Scotland perhaps especially, has a really awful record for underage drinking, high numbers of drinking related illness and death, and stuff like that. Honestly, do young people in America go out for the night just to get drunk?

Yeah, it'll be great to be able to inspire my kids someday. You never know, if I end up fulfilling my dreams of being a musical theatre star and becoming really famous, then I could promote WTM on a whole different level :lol: !

xxx

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Society tends to swing in one direction and then another, like a pendulum. Abstaining is also part of that trend, at least from what I've observed. Abstaining and advocating it seems to have a stigma attached as being either something that only the super religious vow or those too immature to have their desire tested. It's pretty interesting these days that young adults are seen as unable to control their desires and that telling them to be "safe" is the kinder approach. It's pretty ridiculous that telling them instead, to control themselves is seen as being naive or not preparing them.

I'm not at all proposing that you don't teach safe sex ed but I'd like to see the same attention presented to telling young adults that waiting isn't something to be ashamed of and that "normal" people believe in it as well.

Not to jump to a different topic or anything, but every time I hear of another young hollywood personality brag about abstaining, I start banging my head against the nearest solid surface. With the kinds of examples that they're given, how are the growing generations supposed to take anyone abstaining seriously? I just wish that we had sane, logical, and impressive examples that shined instead of those who've made mistakes being showcased constantly.

Okay, ending my rant now:D

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I honestly don't see it as being a truly effective maneuver on the part of the educational system. As with all things of this nature, it would only end up making WTM, seem merely the 'boring, goody-two-shoe' way of submitting to the authorities. It's almost like, for most kids, the 'straight-edge' approach would be needed, as most would only WTM in order to rebel. When your parents tell you not to drink, smoke, etc...what do most kids do? Engage in those very activites. Hence, the effectiveness of the straight-edge movement. Society doesn't truly want us to WTM, abstain from alcohol, drugs, or tobacco. It's waay too lucrative for the various companies (Trojan, any pharamceutical company, Marlboro, Budweiser, etc.) that have such a massive amount of power over the masses, for us to destroy ourselves. Hence, any public education initiative is going to come off as lame and flimsy and WILL fail. We need to approach this from the grassroots level. As WTM types, we'll always be the elite. As Plato said, the greatest conquest is self-conquest. We're all well on our way to the victory...and should present this lifestyle/choice in that kind of light...the true rebel and any true freedom lies in sidestepping the opposing forces and making any and all decisions with one's own best interests in mind. Hence the reason I'm straight-edge (which has a WTM component to it). Until we accept this fact, I honeslty feel that our resources (which ARE limited, will continue to be squandered). That's my two cents...for now...

See ya on the flipside,

Tempest Desh

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Tempest Dash

I honestly don't see it as being a truly effective maneuver on the part of the educational system. As with all things of this nature, it would only end up making WTM, seem merely the 'boring, goody-two-shoe' way of submitting to the authorities.

Obviously, there's that argument. It wouldn't just be education that would have to change: society's attitudes to WTM would have to change too, otherwise there would be, like you said, a sort of "goody-two-shoes" feeling about anything the schools tried to teach.

Society doesn't truly want us to WTM, abstain from alcohol, drugs, or tobacco. It's waay too lucrative for the various companies (Trojan, any pharamceutical company, Marlboro, Budweiser, etc.) that have such a massive amount of power over the masses, for us to destroy ourselves.

Ugh, those condom adverts are vile. They're all about promoting having fun, with the people in it never married, or even in a relationship, always just two people having a one night stand. They actually had a PSA over here with the tagline: "Want respect? Use a condom". I was like, "As if!" The guy in it casually sleeps with this girl he's just met and obviously doesn't care about her, just about sleeping with her, but because he used a condom, she'll respect him?

TV's awful too. You guys have the Jerry Springer Show, right? We've got the Jeremy Kyle Show, which is pretty much the same thing, except as well as the talk-show element, it's got lie-detector tests and DNA tests. Honestly, the number of people who don't know who the father of their baby is, or come on the show and find out their boyfriend or girlfriend's been cheating on them. And everyone who's on it, if they have more than one child, it's to more than one guy. It's just sad.

We're all well on our way to the victory...and should present this lifestyle/choice in that kind of light...the true rebel and any true freedom lies in sidestepping the opposing forces and making any and all decisions with one's own best interests in mind.

I always think it's sad when people think that by having sex before marriage, it's like they're sticking it to the man, or something, or that people that wait are forced into it or brainwashed by religion. Because the truth is, if anyone's getting brainwashed, it's them, because society just doesn't allow WTM to be acceptable. It's like the ironic thing where goths or punks or stuff try to dress differently so they are unique and an individual, and end up looking excatly the same as all the other goths and punks. Go figure.

Again, this has turned into a rant. I seem to be pretty good at them!

xxx

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Sorry, Faye, I didn't notice you'd posted before Tempest! I've got this really weird image in my head now of me working behind the till in a shop, you standing there with, I don't know, a t-shirt or something, and Tempest just jumping the queue and slamming a pair of trainers down on the counter as he shouts, "Me first!".

Okay, that sounds really weird for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because mostly everyone on this site's American, so tiil = cash register, shop = store, and trainers = sneakers. And secondly, because, it's just really random and silly. But anyway...

It's pretty ridiculous that telling them instead, to control themselves is seen as being naive or not preparing them.

I've never thought of it like that before! It's true though, society teaches that it's fine to have casual sex, and doing so isn't immature or stupid, just as long as you use contraception. That's just so backwards!

I'm not at all proposing that you don't teach safe sex ed but I'd like to see the same attention presented to telling young adults that waiting isn't something to be ashamed of and that "normal" people believe in it as well.

Definitely. Because most people who know that I'm WTM think I must be some kind of freak.

Not to jump to a different topic or anything, but every time I hear of another young hollywood personality brag about abstaining, I start banging my head against the nearest solid surface. With the kinds of examples that they're given, how are the growing generations supposed to take anyone abstaining seriously? I just wish that we had sane, logical, and impressive examples that shined instead of those who've made mistakes being showcased constantly.

I know, I can't think of anyone like that. Even if you take WTM out of the equation, there's very few celebrities who have been good role models. They all seem to have been caught doing something, be it shoplifting or taking drugs or getting completely drunk out in public.

I'd best leave it there. I've probably ranted enough for one day.

xxx

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My mum is a teacher in a Catholic school and they had a waiting till marriage talk and even brought me home a really nice little booklet on why it's such a positive thing. I don't know how her pupils reacted to it but I know in my friend's school they did have a talk on waiting till marriage but the people were so patronising none of the pupils took it seriously. My friend said he was totally for it but was too embarrassed to admit it bu unfortunately he just didn't have the willpower to wait that long in the end but I guess it is promoted in some schools. I wish we had had a talk on it in mine really! Anyway just thought I'd add that in there! :)

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Anna: Just wondering since you're close to my age, what do you do about dating? I recently went on a couple dates with a guy and we had gotten to 'hanging out' a lot: we acted like we were dating, texting everyday, hanging out like every other day, hugging hello and goodbye, kissing/making out. I told him after it had been like a month of this that I couldn't keep doing it w/o being bf/gf. (Cuddling/making out is emotional for me-I can't "just have fun" as many would say or JUST enjoy it) I need the knowledge that we are exclusive/together/bf/gf. Thanks!

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Sorry! I haven't been on in a while! It sounds like it's pretty exclusive seeing as you're both devoting a lot of time to each other how did he react after you'd told him that you wanted more?

I've not properly dated for a loooong time and every time I have it has been a disaster BUT I will give you my insight from what I do know and what I'd like etc. Hopefully it will help :)

Personally for me, just because I've had a lot of bad experiences, I like to wait as long as possible before I become their girlfriend. I have serious trust issues so I like to know that when I'm with a guy he is with me for me and that this is a relationship I could see lasting a long time. If he gives me the good impression that he is willing to devote himself to me in the sense that we will go to the cinema, carry on dating, he will call me, want to hang out etc. like actually put effort in not just at the beginning but throughout then I know that he is a keeper and that I will enjoy my time with him. As long as I'm having fun and he is like a best friend as well as my boyfriend then I'll go for it and make it official. I'm pretty independent so scared to be with someone if I'm honest! I've settled a few times and realised it never works SO my plan is to only date people who fit more to what I want and that have the traits I'm looking for in a guy.

I know you said you can't "just have fun" which I totally agree with. You become emotionally attached and if he isn't on the same page and isn't as devoted to you then he could ditch you when he gets bored etc. and cause a lot of heartache OR it will just lead to an inevitable end. You need to just address it with the guy I guess. Just let him know that you have been really enjoying how it is but you don't want to keep putting your energy into it if it isn't going to lead anywhere. It might scare him into a relationship though which is never a good thing! Just ask him what his stance is on the two of you. Whether he would be happy getting into another relationship or whether he is only in it for a bit of fun because he likes you. You need to both be on the same page. How does he feel about the WTM? Have you told him yet?

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I told him I couldn't keep doing 'this' (unless bf/gf) one day after we had been making out. Of course I enjoyed being with him like that, but I felt like that was the only reason he liked seeing me so much. I knew I really liked him, and was only hurting myself but continuing to do that. He said he was crazy in like with me. After that we were texting less and less and haven't hung out. We don't text anymore, and it's been a week and a half since I told him that. Guess I got my answer =P

Oh and to answer your question about WTM, I told him I wanted to, and he responsed with, "so everything else is okay?" Then I got kinda uncomfortable and started describing something and then he said we didn't have to talk about it right then so I just kinda left it...

Basically I'm not quite an 'anything but' person. I won't have (sorry to be explicit) oral, vaginal or anal sex until I'm married. I'm okay with anything else though...

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Well he might just be feeling a little pressured or uncomfortable so hasn't been texting you as much so I'd give it another go with texting him and if he is really slow with the replies or doesn't even bother then he is obviously just not ready to take the relationship any further and be glad that you know now before you had invested into it more. It is definitely his loss because you are beautiful and seem lovely!

I agree, I'm not quite an 'anything but' person. I just think it is too intimate and a little bit hypocritical but I think that if you truly meet who you think could be the right guy after a long time you could feel comfortable to do more but from my experience whenever I've let my heart go and gone slightly more intimate with a guy, it isn't long before we break up and I wish I hadn't done anything.

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Thanks! :) He just started texting me again yesterday tho....said he missed me over the pat week since we hadn't talked or hun gout. I think there's a little bs in there tho =P He begged to see me today but I've got exams. I told him Wednesday. I'm just gonna be cautious and hang in a public place.

I understand what you mean. I've made out with this guy a little bit more 'daring' than I ever have before--and we're not even dating. =/ So I'm gonna keep things non physical with him---it's too hard on me and I don't really see him as someone I wanna get serious with. (I have that little voice telling me no even though I have a crush on him...my friends help me keep in check my asking me questions lol like 'why do you trust him?')

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Wow, obviously people have a lot to say on this subject!

Anna & Sally:

Yeah, I'm definitely not an "anything but" person. Also, I'm Catholic, so that means I don't actually want to do any of the...you know...I don't want to spell it out...anything where you can't actually get pregnant from it, if you get my drift! To me, it's really important not to seperate the pleasure side of sex from the reproductive side of it. Personally, I think that's where society's gone wrong nowadays, because now people can have sex without worrying about getting pregnant, and therefore a lot of people think it's okay just to sleep with anyone, because there's no consequences.

I've always thought that the "anything but" thing is kind of cheating. If you're not going to have sex before marriage, it seems strange that you'd have something which is still really intimate before marriage. (Also, I don't think I'd be able to handle anyone but my husband seeing me naked! Eek!)

FlowerBee:

It just makes me so ticked off that people think it's brainwashing, when really, we're brain washed by the media to HAVE sex.

Oh, so true. It was about 9.30 last night, when this advert for condoms comes on TV, and I'm thinking, "Well, I don't agree with contraception, but as long as people are in a committed relationship, then I shouldn't get too angry by it, I guess they have to advertise somewhere."

The advert then showed two people meeting in a nightclub, then going off to have sex.

And I was just thinking, "Em, don't married people use condoms? Don't you think that they probably make up the majority of your sales?"

The media's terrible for sexualised imagery. Have you seen perfume adverts?

Em, technically that was a rhetorical question. I'm assuming you have. Google "Banned Beyonce perfume commercial" if you haven't: I was going to post it here, but it's just too...yuck.

xxx

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Yes, or at least not portray it as unrealistic. More importantly I think the emotional side of sex should be taught.

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@Flowerbee - You mentioned about Hugh Hefner making you sick. You might be interested in this article: Playboy Mansion More Like a Squalid Prison.

Apparently, it's all show. Like, he keeps trying to live the life he led in the 60s, but it just doesn't translate. So you have this awkward home life where he has sex basically just to convince himself that he still can, and it's always very awful (as you'd expect from an 80 year old man). Plus there's apparently uncleaned dog poop and pee caked on all the carpets of the mansion...pretty much the opposite of how he makes it seem from the outside. Anyhow, interesting read, I thought.

More importantly I think the emotional side of sex should be taught.

I second that notion. I would also like to have some older girl come in and teach younger girls a class called "how to spot a douchebag".

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Douchebag 101 would be a great class lol. Although, I think most girls and women know the red flags a lot of times , for whatever reason, we try to rationalize them away.

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A really good book I think a lot of you would like is called "Women Have All The Power: Too Bad They Don't Know It" by Michael J. Lockwood. You can easily find it on amazon. It does steer in the direction of a Christian worldview, but he writes to help women of any background or circumstance. :)

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