Naturally

Don't understand guys

31 posts in this topic

@InvincibleThere's nothing in Acts to give that impression. Plenty of couples hang out with a third wheel and there's nothing wrong with that as long as the husband is present. Personally, I won't tolerate orbiters around my spouse and will hold myself to the same standard. It's a non issue for me. :) Acts 16 was a better example but it said the Lord Himself opened Lydia's eyes to Paul's mission. Not quite the same and there was nothing to indicate she was hanging out with him outside of that role. There's even a transition from Lydia as an individual woman to Lydia's house (yes I'm aware she was likely widowed or not under the care of a man) illustrating that.

There are plenty of verses that warn against exposing your marriage to such an obvious stumbling block. Going over them would be redundant as it's so clearly inappropriate in the realm if common sense.

It's obvious you're referring to friendship in a very vague passing way. I'd use the phrase "acquaintance" at best with most people I'm in fellowship with. Friendship means a lot more to me than that.

@PG1

:lol: 

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3 hours ago, Amarillo said:

@InvincibleThere's nothing in Acts to give that impression. Plenty of couples hang out with a third wheel and there's nothing wrong with that as long as the husband is present. Personally, I won't tolerate orbiters around my spouse and will hold myself to the same standard. It's a non issue for me. :) Acts 16 was a better example but it said the Lord Himself opened Lydia's eyes to Paul's mission. Not quite the same and there was nothing to indicate she was hanging out with him outside of that role. There's even a transition from Lydia as an individual woman to Lydia's house (yes I'm aware she was likely widowed or not under the care of a man) illustrating that.

There are plenty of verses that warn against exposing your marriage to such an obvious stumbling block. Going over them would be redundant as it's so clearly inappropriate in the realm if common sense.

It's obvious you're referring to friendship in a very vague passing way. I'd use the phrase "acquaintance" at best with most people I'm in fellowship with. Friendship means a lot more to me than that.

@PG1

:lol: 

So Paul, Aquilia and Priscilla can work together, travel together, live together and risk their lives for each other and yet somehow they are simply acquaintances? Sorry, that simply won't fly. Clearly this is far beyond just "hanging out." They are actively involved in each other's lives very profoundly. These are not things you do with folks you are simply acquainted with.

Here is what the Lord Jesus Christ's definition of friendship is:

"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends." -John 15:13

As I've shown in Romans 16: 3-4, Paul commended Aquila and Priscilla for risking their lives on his behalf. They were willing to die for him if need be. That is the very definition of a friend according to Christ. To claim otherwise is to willfully ignore what is plainly said in Scripture and would require mental gymnastics that go far beyond the realm of logic and reason. They are not just friends but deeply close friends. There is simply no way around it.

I'm not sure why you would use Lydia as an argument. Your assertion is that men and women should never be friends after marriage. All that is recorded about Lydia is that she heard Paul's message and was awakened by the Lord. Then she invited him and others into her home. There is nothing said about her that even implies a forbidding of a friendship between married friends of the opposite sex.

The only argument you have given is that such friendships are inappropriate yet provide no Scriptural evidence because it's just "common sense." Yet I have given clear Scriptural evidence otherwise. 

I think that we can all agree that friendship dynamics must change and enforce strict boundaries when one gets married. Yet there is nothing to suggest a blanket command against all opposite sex friendships within marriage.

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@invincible You're projecting your friendships as equivalent to a Biblical reference that doesn't proclaim any relationship outside of serving Christ. It's clear that we don't agree on this issue and never will.  :) I'm strongly in the no orbiters camp and don't see myself changing that opinion anytime soon. The admission to having a , no offense -bizarre in my view, agreement with married women not to cross a boundary implies the existence of the bond as a threat to her intimacy to her husband. My only justification I need to keep my spouse from making such a weird connection is my leadership as the head of the house.  I get that you're a more liberal Christian. Evangelical feminism is not my faith and never will be.

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@Amarillo You are perfectly free to not have any of the aforementioned friendships. You are definitely not wrong in doing so. However, you still have not provided any biblical evidence to refute my evidence. All you have done is say I'm projecting or its just common sense.

But I can see we are not getting anywhere so its best to just agree to disagree on this.

On a side note, I am by no means a "liberal Christian." I despise what feminism has done to our society and to the church. I do not believe it is biblical for women to teach in church over men or be elders. I also believe husbands have spiritual leadership over wives and wives are to submit to that leadership. Both of which cause feminists to lose their minds and that makes me happy :P I just happen to not see any biblical evidence to support cutting off opposite sex friends in marriage. I am of course open to be corrected. I do not see this as being a feminist issue.

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@Invincible

Yes we have different faiths.

Jesus' words in John 15, when taken in context of the entire conversation, are a reflection of the sacrifice He made for mankind. God is saying no love is greater than His. For no man can offer a greater love than the truth of Christ's atonement for our sins. He calls us into a relationship above mere servitude and asks for friendship in fellowship with Him.

It's literally spelled out right after your quote so I'm skeptical you've read it in context.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Saying apostles serving God in the manner they did is relevant to a day out with a married women is completely offensive to me as a Christian but as I said it's not going to fly in my house anyway.  The Bible makes the relationship completely clear using the sources you provided and it's not comparable to what's going on in your personal life. Luckily even the more secular Texans here seem to agree that's it's taboo so, "God bless Texas!" in that case. :D

What isn't offensive is saying that a woman is to be obedient to her husband (Ephesians 5:22-33) and if he uses common sense to address a threat then she would be the one sinning by disobeying him. God clearly isn't a micro manager like so many others.

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23 hours ago, Amarillo said:

Yes we have different faiths.

Just because we disagree on something as arbitrary as who we choose to be friends with doesn't mean we have different faiths. That is such a ridiculous claim. Fundamental doctrines aside, we would be hardpressed to find anyone who agrees 100% with every nitty gritty thing that even their own pastor teaches. But that's besides the point.

23 hours ago, Amarillo said:

Jesus' words in John 15, when taken in context of the entire conversation, are a reflection of the sacrifice He made for mankind. God is saying no love is greater than His. For no man can offer a greater love than the truth of Christ's atonement for our sins. He calls us into a relationship above mere servitude and asks for friendship in fellowship with Him.

It's literally spelled out right after your quote so I'm skeptical you've read it in context.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Saying apostles serving God in the manner they did is relevant to a day out with a married women is completely offensive to me as a Christian but as I said it's not going to fly in my house anyway.  The Bible makes the relationship completely clear using the sources you provided and it's not comparable to what's going on in your personal life. Luckily even the more secular Texans here seem to agree that's it's taboo so, "God bless Texas!" in that case. :D

Yes I did read the whole chapter in context but it doesn't change a thing. In fact, in verse 12 right before the passages you pointed out, He says, "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." Jesus is using Himself as the perfect example of how we ought to treat each other. All throughout the passage, Jesus talks about how if we bear good fruit and keep His commands, then we are in Him. That is how everyone of us who follows Christ ought to live. It would be ludicrous to argue this command only applies to the Apostles and not to the rest of us who believe. Yes, He is asking for friendship with Him, but He also says to do the same by loving each other as He has loved us. Real friendship isn't something as superficial as "a day out with a married woman." It is a communal effort as one church body in Christ that we may encourage each other, carry each other's burdens and sacrifice for one another in order to further God's Kingdom.

Furthermore, even without this particular passage, I have shown biblical evidence of how a godly friendship with good boundaries between married people of the opposite sex ought to be. I keep asking for biblical evidence that completely forbids opposite sex friendships within marriage yet you fail to produce anything except saying "it's not going to fly in my house anyway." That is your personal opinion and all fine and good, it isn't based on Scripture, therefore it isn't forbidden in a Christian's life.

So I took the liberty myself to do a search for commentary on the matter from various authorities in the faith, including the staunchly conservative Focus on the Family Ministries. Even they admit that nowhere in Scripture forbids it. To be sure, almost every source I checked did strongly advocate wise discernment in dealing with such friendships and never allowing them to compromise a marriage in any way. But then that is the exact same sentiment I have always taken and nothing less. Is it "safer" for a marriage to not have any opposite sex friends at all? Yes probably. I can grant you that. But I definitely don't think it is sinful in and of itself. I think this is an area where God allows us freedom to go either way as long as we exercise good and godly judgment.

Anyways, we've gone back and forth long enough and we're not getting anywhere. You have your own convictions, which I respect and I have mine. Let's just leave it at that. You are free to respond if you want, but this time, I am truly done. May God bless you in your walk with Him.

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