Viva

No Double Standard When Men Judge Non-virgin Women

14 posts in this topic

I can't understand why men believe that their sexual life wouldn't affect their wives. I am a female married to a non-waiter. We were together for 7 years before it. He did wait for me. I never had any problem with his past. But on wedding night, he proved he was not different from Tom, Dick and Harry. He wanted us to "practice" instead of actually doing it and oh, he wanted the thing to happen in our future apartment. That night continues to impact our lives. Many of the things that come in my head about him are extremely demeaning and I noticed men use them for women all the time. The strange thing is that those things are flowing naturally for which I can't even call myself judgmental. 

We did talk about the issue and he no more wanted to wait for the apartment. But the second and third time we tried turned out to be disappointing. It was very easy to see that there was no passion in what he was doing. He was "mechanical". I smelled his past in it also.  Unfortunately, I find the idea of bringing "experience" to the bed offensive. I have no wish to see what he did with his previous 2 women. He again wanted me to speak about what happened. He now says what he heard from me makes him numb about sex.

Media laments over women feeling ashamed about their sex lives. Here my husband says he is going through it so badly all day that he has lost his self confidence. Meanwhile, I keep feeling guilty for betraying myself by marrying him. I fear coming across the two women and feeling humiliated. I can't find any solution. My mental condition is deteriorating because I keep thinking how I am not his first and that I should have listened to my parents about the advantage of looking for men from law, medicine or other tough majors. Most of them are virgin because they know they will easily settle down.

My husband has become clingier than ever. He keeps giving me suicide threats and cries like crazy.  He keeps begging me to see him as a virgin, but I can't reject the truth.

I wish the media and men would understand that not all women are okay with males randomly sleeping around.

I wish they would not let unmarried people write about the joy of premarital sex. Mind goes through a huge change after marriage. We finally begin to see that sex is actually made for husband and wife. Anything done before it will always backfire somewhere in the future. 

There is no double standard. It is just that some women have lowered their standard.

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3 hours ago, Viva said:

Meanwhile, I keep feeling guilty for betraying myself by marrying him.

How did you betray yourself?

3 hours ago, Viva said:

But on wedding night, he proved he was not different from Tom, Dick and Harry. He wanted us to "practice" instead of actually doing it and oh, he wanted the thing to happen in our future apartment. That night continues to impact our lives. Many of the things that come in my head about him are extremely demeaning and I noticed men use them for women all the time. The strange thing is that those things are flowing naturally for which I can't even call myself judgmental. 

This is very strange.  What do you mean by "He was not different from Tom, Dick, and Harry"? 

What do you mean "practice"?  Had you not discussed Sex before?

What does this mean:  "Many of the things that come in my head about him are extremely demeaning and I noticed men use them for women all the time. The strange thing is that those things are flowing naturally for which I can't even call myself judgmental. "

 

 

This does not sound like a healthy relationship.  He begs you to see him as a virgin?  Do you keep using his past against him because sex isn't how you thought it would be?  You regret marrying him?  He threatens suicide?  You two need to get into therapy...like...yesterday.

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How did you betray yourself?

I refused to believe my rational side that marrying a nonvirgin would impact my life. For 7 years, his past was of no importance to me. It had nothing anyways. He told me he lost it because he was feeling miserable about being a virgin. His brother used to taunt him. But strangely, my then boyfriend started doing the same with his virgin best friend who went to study law. I didn't want to hurt him for which I didn't tell him that people in medicine, law and all other toughest STEM majors don't have time to care about their virginity. 

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This is very strange.  What do you mean by "He was not different from Tom, Dick, and Harry"? 

The average men on the street.

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What do you mean "practice"?  Had you not discussed Sex before?

Yeah, because we discussed the whole sex thing many many times, that practice thing didn't make sense to me. Also he kept telling me all week before it how the night was gonna be so special.

This was my interpretation:

"See, I had sex before and I will show you how to have it."

That's like bringing the past women to bed on wedding night.

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What does this mean:  "Many of the things that come in my head about him are extremely demeaning and I noticed men use them for women all the time. The strange thing is that those things are flowing naturally for which I can't even call myself judgmental. "

Some things from my head:

What's so special about our sex if he already had it with other women?

What's so special about him?

He is used.

What if I meet those two women as his wife? Will they laugh at me?

He looks like a senior citizen to me and this marriage is a retirement home. 

I am a dog with a bone thrown to me by those two women after they were done eating the meat out of it. 

I wish men would learn how to be a husband instead of sleeping around. They shouldn't be blaming women for initiating divorce. What's left for them if their right is given to other women? Eventually, the wives are forced to face the truth that they are housekeepers. I don't know about others, but in my eyes, men do lose value and attractiveness the more their number of sleeping partners go up. They are HPV risk anyways. It can be known only if the female partner ends up contracting.

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This does not sound like a healthy relationship.  He begs you to see him as a virgin?  Do you keep using his past against him because sex isn't how you thought it would be?  You regret marrying him?  He threatens suicide?  You two need to get into therapy...like...yesterday.

He gets over sensitive. I have been trying to discuss the matter just like adults. But for each line, I get fountain of tears from him. What I have been trying to tell him is that whatever happens between us should not include his past. He says he doesn't know how to do that. He keeps repeating that since he hurt me he doesn't deserve to live. He says if I don't answer his call on time he feels like committing suicide because he believes I am gone. I am having trouble explaining to him someone married doesn't do that.

Unfortunately, there is no therapy that would help us. The services (work rarely) are structured to eliminate retroactive jealousy which isn't the problem between us.

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Honestly, Viva, you sound like me in my darkest moments.  The pit of despair looks very dark and hopeless.  Your post has helped me see that, because the thoughts you listed in your head are the same ones I have.  This is gonna sound weird, but I've had them for such a long time and I now know they are demonic.  Straight lies from Satan.  And it must be the same demon whispering them in both our ears. 

 

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

What's so special about our sex if he already had it with other women?

He's your husband.  That's why it's special.  He is with you. He loves you.  He's not with them.

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

What's so special about him?

You made a covenant with him to stay with him for life.  That is about the most special a person can be.  The awesomeness of ONE person doesn't make a marriage.  It's the grace given through the relationship.

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

He is used.

We are all used.  Mainly by the devil trying to lie to us and steal our joy.  You are used in a different way, and I'm really mad at the person using you.

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

What if I meet those two women as his wife? Will they laugh at me?

They don't think about you.  They don't care about you.  You are animating them with your imagination.  He doesn't think about them or love them.  He's married to you.  You should be laughing at THEM because you get a way better version of the man you are married to than they ever had!

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

He looks like a senior citizen to me and this marriage is a retirement home

Is he a lot older than you? 

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

I am a dog with a bone thrown to me by those two women after they were done eating the meat out of it. 

Marriage is so, so, so much better than dating.  It's real.  It's committed.  It has the potential for life.
You have all of that available to you.  It sounds like he wants this, but you won't let him in.

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

I wish men would learn how to be a husband instead of sleeping around.

Me too!

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

They shouldn't be blaming women for initiating divorce. What's left for them if their right is given to other women?

What's left is your HUSBAND.  The man you married.  He is a person and is worth more than a sexual act.

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

What I have been trying to tell him is that whatever happens between us should not include his past.

Does he keep bringing up his past?  Because unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems like YOU are the one bringing it up.  He won't know how to "not include them" unless you help him.  You are obviously operating from a place of deep pain, and so is he... and you both need healing. 

 

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

He says if I don't answer his call on time he feels like committing suicide because he believes I am gone. I am having trouble explaining to him someone married doesn't do that.

Married people do all kinds of crap.  Most married people need help learning how to communicate.  You both need therapy.  But since you say here:

On 3/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, Viva said:

Unfortunately, there is no therapy that would help us. The services (work rarely) are structured to eliminate retroactive jealousy which isn't the problem between us.

Then you are set the nails in your own coffin, my friend.  Until you are ready to come to it like an adult and admit you need help, no one can help you.  There are thousands of therapists trained to help save marriages and learn how to express yourself and also help him understand.  You need to meet each other on the level where you can do that.  But if you have already decided that there is no help for you (without giving therapy a try, of course) , then there is nothing anyone can do.

 

I care about this post because it is literally what I say and do and think at my very darkest moments.  I am speaking from experience.  Guess what...agreeing with those thoughts leads to despair.  It does NOT feel good and will only make you miserable.  You have to use that same energy and do something productive, get out of the pity party, and see the man you married as someone who has value and worth despite what is in his past.  He stopped doing those things, and he's with you now.  What you choose to do from here is up to you.

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On 3/17/2018 at 11:12 PM, Lovelyish said:

Honestly, Viva, you sound like me in my darkest moments.  The pit of despair looks very dark and hopeless.  Your post has helped me see that, because the thoughts you listed in your head are the same ones I have.  This is gonna sound weird, but I've had them for such a long time and I now know they are demonic.  Straight lies from Satan.  And it must be the same demon whispering them in both our ears. 

Yes, that was the exact thing I had in mind. I truly believed our wedding was blessed because once I told him that if God wanted we would be wife and husband. I said that randomly despite both of us agreeing that we would be together forever. Just like you, I am thinking that those are satanic whispers.

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You made a covenant with him to stay with him for life.  That is about the most special a person can be.  The awesomeness of ONE person doesn't make a marriage.  It's the grace given through the relationship.

But I keep going back to that when I see that my husband saying he hurt me and then asking me what to do. I am kind of used to seeing my father coming up with his own ideas to eliminate any issues between him and my late mom especially when he was at fault. So I get very sad to see my husband being clueless. It feels as if I am the only one running the marriage.

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He's your husband.  That's why it's special.  He is with you. He loves you.  He's not with them.

I agree. But I could have chosen someone else also right? All three relationships of mine ended because ex's had to move out to another country or state. It was all stable, but I didn't still do it with them.

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We are all used.  Mainly by the devil trying to lie to us and steal our joy.  You are used in a different way, and I'm really mad at the person using you.

There is exclusivity in all relationships. What's the value of sex between a husband and wife if it is already shared with other people? I have trouble buying the logic about premarital sex. If it is to be done by thinking that it does not deserve to be made exclusive why not have it with parents, siblings, uncles, aunts or other relatives? What he did on wedding night resembles how cheating husbands avoid getting intimate with their wives. 

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Is he a lot older than you? 

Oh no, he is 11 months older than me. I am just explaining the life of a nonvirgin. They give away all the things they should be saving for their marriage. It doesn't make sense that then they want to settle down. I mean to me it looks like them choosing to be senior citizens. The spouses for them are simply nurses and housekeepers. 

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Marriage is so, so, so much better than dating.  It's real.  It's committed.  It has the potential for life.
You have all of that available to you.  It sounds like he wants this, but you won't let him in.

 

On 3/17/2018 at 11:12 PM, Lovelyish said:

What's left is your HUSBAND.  The man you married.  He is a person and is worth more than a sexual act.

 

On 3/17/2018 at 11:12 PM, Lovelyish said:

Then you are set the nails in your own coffin, my friend.  Until you are ready to come to it like an adult and admit you need help, no one can help you.  There are thousands of therapists trained to help save marriages and learn how to express yourself and also help him understand.  You need to meet each other on the level where you can do that.  But if you have already decided that there is no help for you (without giving therapy a try, of course) , then there is nothing anyone can do.

They work on retroactive jealousy. I have nothing to think about his past. I do get very sad when I realize people don't forget their first experience which unfortunately is not me in his case.  I believe he can easily solve the problem. He is treating me like his nonvirgin ex's. You know there are rules on how to have it with a virgin? It is clear to me he didn't study that. That's a huge turn off.

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On 3/14/2018 at 7:04 AM, Viva said:

He gets over sensitive. I have been trying to discuss the matter just like adults. But for each line, I get fountain of tears from him.

Contrary to popular opinion, men can be very sensitive particularly when it comes to sexual issues and wounds. Sometimes simply being honest isn't good enough - tact and understanding is important. It will be easier for you to be more "adult"/unemotional about this because you aren't the one receiving the blame and being told you aren't good enough. Put yourself in his shoes: he feels bad (possibly shameful) about his sexual past, he planned/hoped to start your sexual union wonderfully but the exact opposite results, and the wife who before marriage accepted  the past he disclosed (oh wonderful acceptance!) is now laying it onto him! As far as the sexual union - even "experienced" people can be terrible lovers simply because of the crap they learnt or they didn't have the information/relationship that guided expectations and behaviour. He might not know that he is/might be a terrible sex partner even if he had lots of other sex partners...If you've waited you might not have accurate expectations of sex either or at least the start of a sexual union. I get the sense that you are expecting a husband of some years experience out of a newbie....

On 3/23/2018 at 8:47 AM, Viva said:

I am kind of used to seeing my father coming up with his own ideas to eliminate any issues between him and my late mom especially when he was at fault. So I get very sad to see my husband being clueless. It feels as if I am the only one running the marriage.

You CANNOT expect a newlywed husband to have the skill and growth of a man married for years. Marriage (should) develops people (and it would sometimes seem particularly men as we are less naturally relationally oriented). Your husband may also be very different personality wise than your father, he might not be a natural leader and it may take time for that to develop (with the right kind of environment created by you and peers/mentors). You may be more directive and in-charge so you may have chosen a spouse who is more submissive or go-with-the-flow. Comparing him to your father (whether to him or just within yourself) doesn't do him justice. What if you dreamed of being a great cook to your husband all your life and then at the first few meals you make for him he tells you it doesn't taste as good as his mother's cooking and maybe he made a mistake marrying you?

On 3/13/2018 at 3:49 AM, Viva said:

the advantage of looking for men from law, medicine or other tough majors. Most of them are virgin because they know they will easily settle down.

:huh: That's news to me...I'm kinda disappointing that this has failed for me... :P 

On 3/23/2018 at 8:47 AM, Viva said:

They work on retroactive jealousy. I have nothing to think about his past.

It does seem like from your posts his past is significantly on your thoughts and is likely shaping your interactions with him in the present...

On 3/23/2018 at 8:47 AM, Viva said:

I do get very sad when I realize people don't forget their first experience which unfortunately is not me in his case.

It sounds like you had a bad experience but for most people I don't think their first experience is the best. This can get better with time and they generally need time to get better as spouses learn about each other and develop trust and intimacy both sexual and nonsexual. 

 

On 3/23/2018 at 8:47 AM, Viva said:

I believe he can easily solve the problem. He is treating me like his nonvirgin ex's. You know there are rules on how to have it with a virgin? It is clear to me he didn't study that. That's a huge turn off.

Rules?? *looks around* why didn't anyone tell me!? Is there an exam? haha...I think you might mean "expectations of virgins"? While yes, it would be lovely if he had made himself knowledgeable or inquired on what some of those expectations may be (and would vary from person to person), did you talk about your expectations/wishes before and during? Unfortunately, *sometimes* we don't know what we don't know - while sometimes we know what we don't know...Men aren't mindreaders and I would not rely on him picking up subtle clues related to your arousal or discomfort this early in the relationship - at least so far it seems like you shouldn't with him for whatever reason. While he needs to learn to inquire, you also need to make sure you are communicating in a sufficiently clear, timely, and appropriate manner. And again, having a healthy mutually satisfying sex life involves a learning curve that, hopefully you both tackle as a team with understanding, compassion, and hope.

I thought @Lovelyish's post was excellent and I highly concur in giving counselling a go! No shame in getting help when needed! Even if it is going to a pastor who does premarital counselling - which I think would be rather cheap if not free. What you think is the issue may not be the issue and what you think isn't the issue may be...and it looks like he would be willing to give it a shot so that is one problem settled.

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On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Contrary to popular opinion, men can be very sensitive particularly when it comes to sexual issues and wounds

You are right, but I never understood why it is like this for them.

 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

It will be easier for you to be more "adult"/unemotional about this because you aren't the one receiving the blame and being told you aren't good enough.

 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Rules?? *looks around* why didn't anyone tell me!? Is there an exam? haha...I think you might mean "expectations of virgins"? While yes, it would be lovely if he had made himself knowledgeable or inquired on what some of those expectations may be (and would vary from person to person), did you talk about your expectations/wishes before and during?

Oh, actually, I have been always clear with him that it wasn't about him, but how to make love to a virgin. Things have to be taken slowly. He still doesn't get that....even demo I forwarded to him didn't work!!!! But of course, that won't change the rate of our persistence :blush:

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Put yourself in his shoes: he feels bad (possibly shameful) about his sexual past, he planned/hoped to start your sexual union wonderfully but the exact opposite results, and the wife who before marriage accepted  the past he disclosed (oh wonderful acceptance!) is now laying it onto him!

It would have never happened. His behavior on wedding night changed everything. I am still trying to work with him on the issue. But so far what I have been seeing is that he doesn't know the definition of "special". 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

I get the sense that you are expecting a husband of some years experience out of a newbie....

I just wanted him to study. I never bought the idea of experience simply because as we know, the history shows plenty of people lived without it and still had strong marriage. 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

You CANNOT expect a newlywed husband to have the skill and growth of a man married for years. Marriage (should) develops people (and it would sometimes seem particularly men as we are less naturally relationally oriented).

I think my request for him is quite tiny. 

That said, your comment is interesting especially when we take the society into consideration. Why sexual experience is a must, but not the experience of  a husband? Things fully don't change after the marriage anyways.

 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

That's news to me...I'm kinda disappointing that this has failed for me...

Sorry to hear that.

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

It does seem like from your posts his past is significantly on your thoughts and is likely shaping your interactions with him in the present...

Unfortunately, things seem to be heading that direction. Bad!!! I am fighting it.

 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

It sounds like you had a bad experience but for most people I don't think their first experience is the best. This can get better with time and they generally need time to get better as spouses learn about each other and develop trust and intimacy both sexual and nonsexual. 

 

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

did you talk about your expectations/wishes before and during? Unfortunately, *sometimes* we don't know what we don't know - while sometimes we know what we don't know...Men aren't mindreaders and I would not rely on him picking up subtle clues related to your arousal or discomfort this early in the relationship - at least so far it seems like you shouldn't with him for whatever reason. While he needs to learn to inquire, you also need to make sure you are communicating in a sufficiently clear, timely, and appropriate manner. And again, having a healthy mutually satisfying sex life involves a learning curve that, hopefully you both tackle as a team with understanding, compassion, and hope.

lol, I am still a virgin :lol:

We had lots of conversation about sex before the marriage. But something bizarre is happening. He doesn't open up directly like before. It seems as if he is literally going "orthodox christian" without calling himself religious. Not sure if he is still agnostic. Surprisingly, he told me not to use the word "sex" in our case because he believes it is demeaning :huh:

On 3/25/2018 at 2:34 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

No shame in getting help when needed! Even if it is going to a pastor who does premarital counselling - which I think would be rather cheap if not free. What you think is the issue may not be the issue and what you think isn't the issue may be...and it looks like he would be willing to give it a shot so that is one problem settled.

I will try that out. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/10/2018 at 5:58 PM, Viva said:

You are right, but I never understood why it is like this for them.

 

 

Oh, actually, I have been always clear with him that it wasn't about him, but how to make love to a virgin. Things have to be taken slowly. He still doesn't get that....even demo I forwarded to him didn't work!!!! But of course, that won't change the rate of our persistence :blush:

It would have never happened. His behavior on wedding night changed everything. I am still trying to work with him on the issue. But so far what I have been seeing is that he doesn't know the definition of "special". 

I just wanted him to study. I never bought the idea of experience simply because as we know, the history shows plenty of people lived without it and still had strong marriage. 

I think my request for him is quite tiny. 

That said, your comment is interesting especially when we take the society into consideration. Why sexual experience is a must, but not the experience of  a husband? Things fully don't change after the marriage anyways.

 

Sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, things seem to be heading that direction. Bad!!! I am fighting it.

 

 

lol, I am still a virgin :lol:

We had lots of conversation about sex before the marriage. But something bizarre is happening. He doesn't open up directly like before. It seems as if he is literally going "orthodox christian" without calling himself religious. Not sure if he is still agnostic. Surprisingly, he told me not to use the word "sex" in our case because he believes it is demeaning :huh:

I will try that out. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are still a virgin? 

 

He's "literally going 'orthodox christian'" ...you mean Eastern Orthodox?  Orthodox in the sense of mainstream?  What do you mean?

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On 4/11/2018 at 8:58 AM, Viva said:

lol, I am still a virgin :lol:

That was an unexpected hard right turn! This snippet of information changes things...We have come across the issue of a couple struggling to consummate post-marriage. I don't know much more - as far as I know a married waiter assisted through PM to maintain privacy. If you want there may be some married (or previously married) waiters who can help you out that way and be a bit more candid. Otherwise, since you are new here, I thought I'd mention you can request the thread be moved to the VDA forum so only forum members can access it. 

On 4/11/2018 at 8:58 AM, Viva said:

Oh, actually, I have been always clear with him that it wasn't about him, but how to make love to a virgin. Things have to be taken slowly. He still doesn't get that....even demo I forwarded to him didn't work!!!! But of course, that won't change the rate of our persistence :blush:

 

On 4/11/2018 at 8:58 AM, Viva said:

It would have never happened. His behavior on wedding night changed everything. I am still trying to work with him on the issue. But so far what I have been seeing is that he doesn't know the definition of "special". 

From this I gather that you two have tried but that he is rushing foreplay and he is not making the event special enough to live up to your long anticipated expectation (which I totally get!) which makes you pump on the breaks. I gather you have had the sexpectations talk and I'm guessing you've talked about what you would like for context to make it feel special? If it is something specific and tangible (like rose petals on the bed; massage etc) is he giving a reason why he isn't meeting those requests? As far as foreplay I gather he just isn't doing enough. Maybe he needs to be told to forget whatever he incidentally learnt from his previous sexual liaisons (in a tactful manner). Those women will most likely not have required as much foreplay as a virgin or liked different things.

Maybe in the heat of the moment he is forgetting how much foreplay you need. I remember a kid who used to live with us who would get an adrenaline rush when sitting at the table. The thought of being about to eat would cause him to tremble, start seriously salivating, and his mental focus on other things would deteriorate. And here we are talking about first-time sex with your loved one so....! In this case as long as he is willing to give extended foreplay, you may need to be a more explicit gatekeeper of when he can proceed with what. Maybe come up with a red light, yellow light, green light system. You may need to take more control potentially even down to going girl-on-top so you can ah...control everything....at the crux moment. This could allay your concerns of him going to fast if you are in control of the pace. <maybe this needs to be in VDA anyway...>.<  @Invincible>

Another factor may be un/conscious fears on your part that are preventing you from being ready enough - in which case it may not be his lack of foreplay. If you aren't allowing yourself to get into frame of mind required by you for him to proceed it may be unfair to put it all on him. That may be something to pay attention to. Either way you may like to check out the Sexual Icebreakers thread though there isn't much content it introduces a concept of easing the two of you into new territories.

On 4/11/2018 at 8:58 AM, Viva said:

We had lots of conversation about sex before the marriage. But something bizarre is happening. He doesn't open up directly like before. It seems as if he is literally going "orthodox christian" without calling himself religious. Not sure if he is still agnostic. Surprisingly, he told me not to use the word "sex" in our case because he believes it is demeaning :huh:

Hmmm does he have a problem with the term "sex" thus preferring a different one or is he saying that he believes the sex act is demeaning in itself? And is it demeaning in general or only specifically between you two? If he does, is it demeaning towards you, him, or both of you? This will be of interest in how you address those feelings/beliefs. Sadly there is a whole heap of rubbish over the condemnation of sex - as opposed to just the condemnation of immoral sex - in some religious circles. Historically (and there may still be some adherents on some level) there were some Christian scholars who saw even sex within marriage as a necessary evil. Far out! Totally sad and biblically inaccurate. You may want to explore where these deep beliefs are coming from (if he has them). It doesn't necessarily have to have a religious origin. You may want to read up on the Madonna-whore complex. 

One other thought that I had, and its probably a stretch, but maybe he is rushing the foreplay over difficulties of maintaining an erection or concerns about loosing it (temporarily). 

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On 4/12/2018 at 11:38 AM, Lovelyish said:

You are still a virgin? 

 

He's "literally going 'orthodox christian'" ...you mean Eastern Orthodox?  Orthodox in the sense of mainstream?  What do you mean?

Yeah, I am still a virgin because he doesn't get how to do that with me.

When I said orthodox i meant his own made up religion. He also tried twisting the meaning of virginity.

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

That was an unexpected hard right turn! This snippet of information changes things...We have come across the issue of a couple struggling to consummate post-marriage. I don't know much more - as far as I know a married waiter assisted through PM to maintain privacy. If you want there may be some married (or previously married) waiters who can help you out that way and be a bit more candid. Otherwise, since you are new here, I thought I'd mention you can request the thread be moved to the VDA forum so only forum members can access it. 

Was their history similar to mine?

I'll request for the transfer. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

From this I gather that you two have tried but that he is rushing foreplay and he is not making the event special enough to live up to your long anticipated expectation (which I totally get!) which makes you pump on the breaks. I gather you have had the sexpectations talk and

That fully describes our problem. We had lots of talks about intimacy over the years. Actually, he was the one who started the talk about special night some weeks before our marriage. I was completely prepared. He poured water over it by saying that he wanted to first "practice" with me and do the actual deed after we get our own place. But as we know, I didn't marry him to enjoy what he did with other women. Otherwise, i would have married some polygamous person. 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

I gather you have had the sexpectations talk and I'm guessing you've talked about what you would like for context to make it feel special? 

He seems to be suffering from the same thing seen in other nonvirgins. Every time I want to talk about the "concept of special" he switches to, "everything between us is special". I can't then continue. I am now basically giving him hints. 

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Maybe he needs to be told to forget whatever he incidentally learnt from his previous sexual liaisons (in a tactful manner).

Do you have any tips on that? I did tell him to do what you suggested above. Apparently, he doesn't know how to do it. 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Maybe in the heat of the moment he is forgetting how much foreplay you need. I remember a kid who used to live with us who would get an adrenaline rush when sitting at the table. The thought of being about to eat would cause him to tremble, start seriously salivating, and his mental focus on other things would deteriorate. And here we are talking about first-time sex with your loved one so....! In this case as long as he is willing to give extended foreplay, you may need to be a more explicit gatekeeper of when he can proceed with what.

He tried extending the foreplay, but it only left me feeling guilty instead of aroused. It seemed like I was forcing him and the sex was just all about me. It is me making love to myself and functional sex between him and me. 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Another factor may be un/conscious fears on your part that are preventing you from being ready enough - in which case it may not be his lack of foreplay. If you aren't allowing yourself to get into frame of mind required by you for him to proceed it may be unfair to put it all on him.

That's an addon to the problem. But I would say I am not ready to accept his baggage. 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Either way you may like to check out the Sexual Icebreakers thread though there isn't much content it introduces a concept of easing the two of you into new territories.

 

Thank you for the link. I'll check it.

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Hmmm does he have a problem with the term "sex" thus preferring a different one or is he saying that he believes the sex act is demeaning in itself? And is it demeaning in general or only specifically between you two?

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Sadly there is a whole heap of rubbish over the condemnation of sex - as opposed to just the condemnation of immoral sex - in some religious circles. Historically (and there may still be some adherents on some level) there were some Christian scholars who saw even sex within marriage as a necessary evil. Far out! Totally sad and biblically inaccurate. You may want to explore where these deep beliefs are coming from (if he has them).

 

It seems he has problem with the term if I use it for us, but recently, he concluded that the act before the marriage is the "ultimate sin". He has never been religious and often showed disinterest in religions. This is the first time in years I am hearing words like purity and sin from his mouth. 

 

On 4/12/2018 at 5:15 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

One other thought that I had, and its probably a stretch, but maybe he is rushing the foreplay over difficulties of maintaining an erection or concerns about loosing it (temporarily). 

Rushing is the biggest culprit in this situation. 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

I'll request for the transfer.

Yo @Invincible, can we get this shifted to VDA? :) 

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

Was their history similar to mine?

No idea sorry. I don't really know more than I wrote. But they wouldn't be the only ones struggling with getting the sex life kickstarted in marriage (see podcast below).

 

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

He seems to be suffering from the same thing seen in other nonvirgins. Every time I want to talk about the "concept of special" he switches to, "everything between us is special". I can't then continue. I am now basically giving him hints. 

So the guy might not be a natural romantic. I would suggest not giving "hints" but being direct and giving him the bottom line. There is a gender difference in communication style. A female might pick up on your hints but a male may not. "I feel it is special when..." "I don't feel it is special when..." As with anything, you'll have to give him grace that his version of special may be different from yours and you will (likely) need to compromise to some extent if you want to set up a healthy relationship. Remember that while he may have had sex with others this is his first time with you too and his desires and expectations are also relevant, not just yours.

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

Do you have any tips on that? I did tell him to do what you suggested above. Apparently, he doesn't know how to do it. 

Basically don't assume you like or dislike anything because some other partner liked or didn't like it. Here is a link to a podcast I like to listen to and only came across this segment a little while ago and thought it relevant to a number of issues you are facing: the "Ok sex is Ok" section with Gary Thomas http://www.boundless.org/podcast-section/2017/marks-of-a-mature-christian-episode-469

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

He tried extending the foreplay, but it only left me feeling guilty instead of aroused. It seemed like I was forcing him and the sex was just all about me.

Hmmm. He doesn't give enough foreplay and you pump the breaks because he is rushing things; he gives extended foreplay and you pump the breaks because you feel guilty instead of aroused. You are pumping the breaks because you don't feel something is special enough when he does but you also feel guilty when the sex feels like its just all about you and pump the breaks.  Can you see a significant problem here?

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

That's an addon to the problem. But I would say I am not ready to accept his baggage. 

Rather than an addon to the problem, it may be the problem - and "his problems" are an easier and more comfortable target. He may have problems, but that doesn't excuse you owning up to and working on your own. Interacting with only one party is necessarily limiting. Have you sought couple/individual counselling? This would be particularly relevant if you have vaginismus or something similar. By the sounds of things seeing a sex therapist would most probably be beneficial too - for him and you.

An attitude of (if you have it) "I'll work on my problems when he works on his" is not healthy. The only thing you can control is yourself. A common problem in marriages are cycles of hurt that can only break when one person "chooses to be the bigger person". Check this out: http://www.drsuejohnson.com/where-does-love-go-wrong/ 

What baggage would you be accepting and how would you be accepting it?

On 4/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Viva said:

he concluded that the act before the marriage is the "ultimate sin"

But you are married now so apart from seeking repentance for and working through guilt for past choices I don't see the relevance. How long ago was your wedding btw for some context? 

Anyone else have any ideas? I'm feeling a little alone out here... Any ladies?

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On 4/30/2018 at 5:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Anyone else have any ideas? I'm feeling a little alone out here... Any ladies?

My number one and final recommendation is counseling.  Both both of you.  Honestly, forgiveness, and finding some common ground.  This marriage is doomed if you don't do it soon.

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On 5/2/2018 at 8:48 PM, Lovelyish said:

My number one and final recommendation is counseling.  Both both of you.  Honestly, forgiveness, and finding some common ground.  This marriage is doomed if you don't do it soon.

Sorry for being late. Why didn't these people see counselors when they were feeling all depressed for being lonely? 

 

On 4/30/2018 at 3:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Yo @Invincible, can we get this shifted to VDA?

I sent a request also. I guess they are not here at the moment. But its okay. We finally took care of the thing.I had a miscarriage. It made me angrier. I literally took up a lot of pain for someone who tossed away peace from our marriage just because he was feeling lonely back in the days. Now I am wondering whether to ever get pregnant again.

On 4/30/2018 at 3:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

So the guy might not be a natural romantic. I would suggest not giving "hints" but being direct and giving him the bottom line. There is a gender difference in communication style. A female might pick up on your hints but a male may not. "I feel it is special when..." "I don't feel it is special when..." As with anything, you'll have to give him grace that his version of special may be different from yours and you will (likely) need to compromise to some extent if you want to set up a healthy relationship. Remember that while he may have had sex with others this is his first time with you too and his desires and expectations are also relevant, not just yours.

It has to do with first time. Apparently, how we lose virginity decides our future sex life.

 

On 4/30/2018 at 3:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Basically don't assume you like or dislike anything because some other partner liked or didn't like it. Here is a link to a podcast I like to listen to and only came across this segment a little while ago and thought it relevant to a number of issues you are facing: the "Ok sex is Ok" section with Gary Thomas http://www.boundless.org/podcast-section/2017/marks-of-a-mature-christian-episode-469

This one is important. Thanks for link.

 

On 4/30/2018 at 3:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Hmmm. He doesn't give enough foreplay and you pump the breaks because he is rushing things; he gives extended foreplay and you pump the breaks because you feel guilty instead of aroused. You are pumping the breaks because you don't feel something is special enough when he does but you also feel guilty when the sex feels like its just all about you and pump the breaks.  Can you see a significant problem here?

Being a nonvirgin means work harder in the marriage :rolleyes:

On 4/30/2018 at 3:52 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Rather than an addon to the problem, it may be the problem - and "his problems" are an easier and more comfortable target. He may have problems, but that doesn't excuse you owning up to and working on your own. Interacting with only one party is necessarily limiting. Have you sought couple/individual counselling?

My problem is that I am overly rational. Haven't gone for counselling yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I completely agree with this. I absolutely agree that men having premarital sex is just as bad as women having premarital sex. There should be no double standard at all, and I have no idea why there is. It certainly doesn’t work that way for me.

Personally, a big part of my reason to wait is out of respect for my future wife. I want to save those sacred acts for her and I want them to mean something and be something truly special that has happened between us and only us. I couldn’t forgive myself if I hurt her and gave it away to someone else. I know how badly that would hurt me, which is why I have a very difficult time even considering dating non-virgins. I know this makes finding someone much more difficult, but I just don’t think I could get past something like that and I firmly believe that the girl for me is also waiting. No matter what society tries to tell you, sex is a very big deal and having it outside of marriage or with someone you don’t love is an incredibly selfish act.

Regardless, I am always here to talk if you need it, and I will pray for you in hopes that everything works out and you are able to find peace. It seems you are realizing my worst fear when it comes to dating/marriage and my heart breaks for you. If you haven’t already, please seek counseling. You can get through this.

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