Invincible

A sad reality of being an older waiter

19 posts in this topic

I think most of us have an ideal period of time where we hope to enjoy at least a couple years child-free in the beginning of a marriage. For those who marry young, say in their early 20's, could afford to wait almost a decade and still be within a good timeframe to have children. But for those of us in our 30's or older and still unmarried, we don't have that luxury.

Lately I've been feeling like I have to give up on a dream of having any meaningful amount of time to spend just between myself and my future wife. I'm almost 33 and still no relationship and therefore nowhere near married. Even if I were to start dating a girl today, it would probably last at least 6 months to a year before we get engaged. So by the latest, I'd be 34 by the time of engagement. Then by the time I get married, I would likely be close to 35 and that's best case scenario. In all likelihood, it will take me a while to even find a relationship and by extension I'd be older than 35 by the time I marry. Even by today's standards, that's still pretty late to enter marriage. I won't have much choice to have children really early on because I'd like to have more than one child. I also don't want to be too old by the time they all reach adulthood and independence. 

Yet at the same time, I won't likely be able to enjoy much of a sex life because I'll have to jump into parenthood right from the get go. Being a parent tends to put a huge damper on a couple's sex life. So sex will be a rare occurrence, like once a decade rare. That's just the way it is. Sex is something I can foresee to be a really big need of my in a marriage and I would need it often. But I also don't want to put undue pressure on my future wife for sex since she will likely be exhausted a lot from taking care of our children all day. As much as I would want sex, I would rather she have it with me because she joyfully wants it, not because she begrudgingly goes along as a chore. Now to be clear, I don't feel like I "deserve" a long and great sex life simply because I am waiting longer than the average person. I'm simply disappointed that I waited so long yet the wait would likely be anti-climatic in terms of the fruits of the wait.

I'm not even sure why I'm even posting this thread. I feel like I'm just complaining about apocalyptic worst-case scenarios that haven't actually happened yet. I mean, I get it. Life isn't fair and people will probably tell me to get over it and I probably should. I'm just saying this is something that has been really bothers me and I'm just putting my thoughts out there. It makes me envious of those who found the right one and married at a young age. They have the advantage of having all the time in the world to exclusively enjoy time just the two of them and also enjoy a long and satisfying sex life.

I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else can relate to these thoughts.

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Agreed...

I'm 32, but would prefer a woman in her mid-20s simply for that reason... 

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Hey if I was a girl, I’d totally be into you…Although, if I was a girl, I’d probably look hideous and you would probably avoid me : p lol jk jk jk

Sorry I don’t have anything profound to say but the first thing that pops into my mind is the “5 Whys” root cause analysis method used in six sigma. You can definitely use parts of that problem solving method in your personal life. It is good because it tailors solutions to the source of the problem…instead of how the problem is manifested. So maybe this method could help you find a wife...and if it does, I expect to be at the wedding and that you name your first born child after me.…those terms are non-negotiable.   Ohh and Let’s call it adjusting your dream/s, not giving up.   

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

I also don't want to be too old by the time they all reach adulthood and independence. 

Not sure if this helps but there are plenty of older parents who are healthy and able to be active in the lives of their adult children. I’d say just focus on maintaining your health for the long run.

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

Yet at the same time, I won't likely be able to enjoy much of a sex life because I'll have to jump into parenthood right from the get go. Being a parent tends to put a huge damper on a couple's sex life. So sex will be a rare occurrence, like once a decade rare. That's just the way it is.

I see this being true if one of you works a normal 8-5 and the other works some sort of a night shift. Otherwise, no matter how busy you are, you should be able set aside an hour…ideally every day for “mommy and daddy time”. Sure it will get interrupted but that should be expected. I don’t care if that means you have to wake up an hour earlier or go to bed an hour later…You have to make time for yourselves and as long as you two agree to something like this, I think you can still have a very active and satisfying sex life.

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

But I also don't want to put undue pressure on my future wife for sex since she will likely be exhausted a lot from taking care of our children all day.

She will know going into the marriage you will need it often…If you marry a women who has passion for the needs of her husband, she should not see it as pressure…but rather a gift that she is excited to share with you. Typically, a passionate person will not view being tired (within reason) as a reason to neglect the emotional or sexual needs of their partner. They will try to find ways to make something work if there are challenges in the way. (BTW if you find this unicorn woman, please capture her alive so we can take her to the lab that cloned Dolly, back in 1996.) JK. Sure there will be days when someone exhausted and that is why you take turns giving to one another. If you’re both too tired to do anything, then you can lay back, cuddle with your wife, enjoy her company and be glad you’re no longer single.  

However, some people can place their ENTIRE identity in becoming a parent, if that happens, your needs can get sidelined because the child is now far more important.

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

As much as I would want sex, I would rather she have it with me because she joyfully wants it, not because she begrudgingly goes along as a chore.

Totally hear you on this one. I think you need to make sure the girl you’re dating will have passion for her husband’s needs…this is not the same as love or having a caring disposition. There are plenty of people that love their spouses but neglect their sexual needs. Or they have a caring attitude but they don’t have passion when addressing their spouse’s needs. My ex was a loving and caring person but one main reason I could not marry her was because the only sexual passion she had was for her needs. She never had to ask for anything because I was giving to her and when she got what she wanted, she would roll over and be done or want something else…Then I would be left high and dry…I had to ask every single time for the things I needed…she’d say fine, roll her eyes, had no fun, would rush it and try to get things over with…there was no pride in what she was doing and she did not seem to care if she was good at the things I liked. So yeah if you’re anything like me, I can assure you being treated like an unwanted chore is a total a buzz kill. Honestly, after a while sex did not even feel good. I think that’s because the mental aspect is so important…well at least for me.

I don’t know if this will make sense online….but there was a time when I wondered if this is what it’s like to have sex with a prostitute. I don’t imagine prostitutes would actually have fun, be excited, eager, joyful…If that is generally true for prostitutes, then what’s the difference? They both would doing the same sexual acts (hypothetically speaking of course) with the same attitude…Is the currency the only difference? I’d have to pay a prostitute in cash and my ex with the relationship? The way I saw it was a prostitute might have the mindset of…….I have to do this because im getting paid to do a job…Ideally, I think a passionate SO should have the mindset of….I get to do this with my partner! I can’t wait see him/her and _________.  I remembered seeing undercover prostitution stings on reality law enforcement tv shows and the guys always asked the undercover prostitute what and how much...lol sadly I realized how similar this seems to be…At least to me, this is why passion is so important...

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

Now to be clear, I don't feel like I "deserve" a long and great sex life simply because I am waiting longer than the average person. I'm simply disappointed that I waited so long yet the wait would likely be anti-climatic in terms of the fruits of the wait.

Waiting or not I think if you’re a good husband/father, you bet your ass you deserve a good sex life. Same goes for your wife.

If you marry the unicorn I mentioned earlier lol…how will you be disappointed? I would like to think you would be elated. Look at it this way, you and your new wife will be all about each other and your friends will see that and some might be envious because they lost that spark, if they have been married for a long time.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SG1 said:

Not sure if this helps but there are plenty of older parents who are healthy and able to be active in the lives of their adult children. I’d say just focus on maintaining your health for the long run.

Yeah, I think this is just one more reason for me to quit eating junk and eat more fruits and veggies. I think part of this fear come from my having a genetic disorder which people like me tend to have a slightly shorter life span than normal people. It's not a guaranteed thing, but still something to consider. I guess nothing in life is for certain. I could outlive some health nut because they get hit by a car a few years down the road. Kind of morbid but the point is, life throws curve balls sometimes. So it's probably best to live one day at a time anyways.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

I see this being true if one of you works a normal 8-5 and the other works some sort of a night shift. Otherwise, no matter how busy you are, you should be able set aside an hour…ideally every day for “mommy and daddy time”. Sure it will get interrupted but that should be expected. I don’t care if that means you have to wake up an hour earlier or go to bed an hour later…You have to make time for yourselves and as long as you two agree to something like this, I think you can still have a very active and satisfying sex life.

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

However, some people can place their ENTIRE identity in becoming a parent, if that happens, your needs can get sidelined because the child is now far more important.

Well, personally I'm looking for a traditional kind of marriage where I have a career while she stays at home with the kids. The thing is, I know I will always be thinking about the state of the marriage. I'm just not so sure if she would. Your second statement above is exactly why I brought this point up. I hear stories about how it's very common for mothers to unintentionally make their kids their sole purpose in life and neglect their husbands. That is more real to me especially since my mom was kind of like that with my sister and I growing up. To me this is really backwards. I strongly believe that a marriage should come first even before kids. That's not to say we should neglect kids. But your spouse is your partner for life. One day your kids will leave the nest and have their own families, but your spouse will still be there till death. When a marriage is bad, the kids suffer. But when a marriage is strong, the kids will benefit because both parents are living harmoniously.

I personally am willing to do what it takes to set aside at least some time for just the two of us. I just need to make sure I meet a girl who is determined to do the same.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

Totally hear you on this one. I think you need to make sure the girl you’re dating will have passion for her husband’s needs…this is not the same as love or having a caring disposition. There are plenty of people that love their spouses but neglect their sexual needs. Or they have a caring attitude but they don’t have passion when addressing their spouse’s needs. My ex was a loving and caring person but one main reason I could not marry her was because the only sexual passion she had was for her needs. She never had to ask for anything because I was giving to her and when she got what she wanted, she would roll over and be done or want something else…Then I would be left high and dry…I had to ask every single time for the things I needed…she’d say fine, roll her eyes, had no fun, would rush it and try to get things over with…there was no pride in what she was doing and she did not seem to care if she was good at the things I liked. So yeah if you’re anything like me, I can assure you being treated like an unwanted chore is a total a buzz kill. Honestly, after a while sex did not even feel good. I think that’s because the mental aspect is so important…well at least for me.

Wow, that really sucks, dude. I can see why you're no longer with her. She clearly did not care about you the same way you cared about her. You're honestly too good for her. I would never marry someone who wasn't joyfully putting 100% of herself along side with me. A marriage can't work otherwise. I totally hear you when you say the mental aspect is important. If she saw it as a chore, I almost rather not have sex at all. I care about her being happy and enjoying herself and without that, I would imagine it would feel hallow.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

She will know going into the marriage you will need it often…If you marry a women who has passion for the needs of her husband, she should not see it as pressure…but rather a gift that she is excited to share with you. Typically, a passionate person will not view being tired (within reason) as a reason to neglect the emotional or sexual needs of their partner. They will try to find ways to make something work if there are challenges in the way. (BTW if you find this unicorn woman, please capture her alive so we can take her to the lab that cloned Dolly, back in 1996.) JK. Sure there will be days when someone exhausted and that is why you take turns giving to one another. If you’re both too tired to do anything, then you can lay back, cuddle with your wife, enjoy her company and be glad you’re no longer single.

Yeah, I think on most days, I would be content with just cuddling and appreciating the fact that I finally found a wonderful woman to spend the rest of my life with. Since I am pretty picky, I intend to be as keenly aware of the vibes I get from a girl I am considering marrying. I could not marry a woman with little to no sex drive or any passion at all. I need to know beforehand that she is fully committed to fighting for the marriage through good times and bad. People these days are so selfish, which tends to be the cause of most divorces. Finding people who take marriage seriously is like finding a needle in a haystack. And yes, I would totally clone such a woman for the good of humanity. lol.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

I don’t know if this will make sense online….but there was a time when I wondered if this is what it’s like to have sex with a prostitute. I don’t imagine prostitutes would actually have fun, be excited, eager, joyful…If that is generally true for prostitutes, then what’s the difference? They both would doing the same sexual acts (hypothetically speaking of course) with the same attitude…Is the currency the only difference? I’d have to pay a prostitute in cash and my ex with the relationship? The way I saw it was a prostitute might have the mindset of…….I have to do this because im getting paid to do a job…Ideally, I think a passionate SO should have the mindset of….I get to do this with my partner! I can’t wait see him/her and _________.  I remembered seeing undercover prostitution stings on reality law enforcement tv shows and the guys always asked the undercover prostitute what and how much...lol sadly I realized how similar this seems to be…At least to me, this is why passion is so important...

You know what? I personally am so glad prostitution is not easily accessible around here. If we set aside morality for a moment, I would say I would be greatly tempted to let my curiosity get the better of me and end up trying it out of a moment of weakness. It might feel good in the moment, but ultimately I would feel empty and disgusted with myself afterwards. Besides, there is just something very pathetic about paying someone for sex. It feels like it's mostly for guys who are too socially inept or too unattractive to attract a woman to get sex through a real relationship/marriage. I do not want to be lumped up with those kind of guys. I want to earn her love and have her want to spend the rest of her life with me because of who I am.

But anyways, it feels wrong to compare a wife to a prostitute. But if you're talking purely based on mindset, I kind of agree only so far as both mindsets are based on obligation and not because they want to.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

Waiting or not I think if you’re a good husband/father, you bet your ass you deserve a good sex life. Same goes for your wife.

Well, personally I try not to feel like I am entitled to things because at the end of the day, I don't believe this world owes any of us a thing. But I get what you're saying. There are days where I let my selfish side get the better of me and feel I deserve a good and plentiful sex life for waiting so long. But in the end, I just want to be the best husband/father regardless if I get anything in return. Of course that would breed resentment if I didn't get anything in return, but I think real love really is just loving another person without expectation of receiving anything back. Yet I sincerely hope to God that she will be one who fully understands and is sensitive to my need for sex and that she will see it as a gift to share together often. As I said before, ideally both people will put 100% into meeting the others' needs to the best of their ability.

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

If you marry the unicorn I mentioned earlier lol…how will you be disappointed? I would like to think you would be elated. Look at it this way, you and your new wife will be all about each other and your friends will see that and some might be envious because they lost that spark, if they have been married for a long time.

Yeah I can only hope for such a woman. But then again, unicorns aren't known to be common. With age, it feels like all the good ones have already married off long ago. So the possibility of finding a unicorn seems really bleak at times. I think it's safe to say though, if I ever find here, I will likely never take her for granted. I will make sure she never goes to bed each night without me showing how much I appreciate that I found her. 

 

3 hours ago, SG1 said:

Hey if I was a girl, I’d totally be into you…Although, if I was a girl, I’d probably look hideous and you would probably avoid me : p lol jk jk jk

Okay...this is where I back away slowly and awkwardly.... :superwaiter:

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On 11/24/2017 at 9:10 AM, Invincible said:

Being a parent tends to put a huge damper on a couple's sex life. So sex will be a rare occurrence, like once a decade rare. That's just the way it is. Sex is something I can foresee to be a really big need of my in a marriage and I would need it often. But I also don't want to put undue pressure on my future wife for sex since she will likely be exhausted a lot from taking care of our children all day. As much as I would want sex, I would rather she have it with me because she joyfully wants it, not because she begrudgingly goes along as a chore

In comparison to you I'm only 23 so I'm not considered an "older waiter". However being female does have it's own pressures too since men can always go for younger women but women don't have that luxury. 

However I think with this point, I can see why it would be worrying. That's why I also wanted to get married young and have all my kids (I want 4) before I was 30 after having a couple of years just enjoying being married. I just don't like the idea of being an older parent, similar to you but also because  my parents and grandparents had us pretty young ish so that's the only example I've been given and I've seen the advantages of having kids young as a woman. 

It's true that your wife would be exhausted from taking care of your children but the amount you have sex is something that should be discussed well before hand like during the engagement phase. Luckily my parent's have provided me with a positive view on sex inside of marriage and one thing that they did do when they had children is schedule sex in. A lot of people are under the illusion that sex should be this impromptu thing all the time when that's actually not feasible all the time due to busy schedules, especially after children. Sometimes you have to plan to have sex on a particular day and stick to it because husbands and wives need to ensure that the nurture their sexual relationship. Even if you don't 100% feel like it, sex seems to be one of those things that the more you do it, the more you want it and vice versa, especially for women and myself. 

I think the concerns with the type of woman who wouldn't want sex or do it once a decade (this did make me laugh :lol: and then slightly worried that some people are like that) suggests that she wasn't comfortable with her sexuality to begin with. However that would be obvious with the discussions that you have with her during the dating stage I hope.  For me (let me know if this is TMI) I masturbate (mainly because of my cycles and that I enjoy the sensations, not because I've seen an attractive person because none of those people are my husband lol) and I feel like that's actually helped me get in touch with my sexuality and look forward to sex within marriage with my husband. Before I was very apprehensive about sex and did see it as a chore but now I see it in a very positive light which has me to not see it as a chore but as a blessing. Now I know that masturbation can be very controversial within Christianity and other religions but personally I feel like its a medium for people to express their sexuality in a way that allows them to accept the fact that they are sexual beings without repressing it as a single person. I found during particular seasons that the more I masturbate, the more I desire to get married and have sex with my husband and I feel like sex is the same way. Now I know that this doesn't work for everyone and it's a bit like alcohol (some people are fine drinking it whereas others are not, and that's fine by me) but I just wanted to provide a person experience that I feel has helped me and may provide some reassurance to you. Everyone is on their own journey your future wife may be on that journey, especially if she is a virgin, to wire her brain to accept that her sexuality it to be embraced. This can be hard when women are told to repress it and we are assumed to not have a sex drive (which I'm pretty sure isn't the case for me haha).  

I think though the fact that men need sex does make it a chore in some ways for women who aren't naturally that in tune with their sexuality. Again, my parents have also expressed the fact that men need sex every 3 days (well really it was my dad emphasising the point with my mum agreeing) and that if my dad doesn't start expressing that need, my mum starts to get worried (thinking maybe he's stressed or something). So for me, it's helped wire my brain towards the fact that I will be having sex with my husband every 2/3 days (ideally more especially as I get older). Do I see it as a chore...yes and no. Yes in the sense that there may be times that I don't feel like it but I would be willing to meet my husbands needs at those time but no since I'd be pretty disappointed to find out that my husband didn't want to do it as often as that minimum. No-one said that chores can't be fun ;) I want to please my husband sexually and I hope he would want to do the same :) It would suck if he found sex to be a chore though since although it's rarer, I'm also worried about being with a man who had a lower libido than I do but again I hope to find this out during the engagement stage and we would hopefully work around that before we're married. 

I think that main thing is to find someone who has a healthy view on sex and sexuality within marriage that aligns with yours. Someone who would be excited to have sex regularly and is open to talk about what they would like to do and not do (within marriage of course). That's the kind of woman you want and I'm sure she out there waiting for you :D 

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What about adoption? You can take as long as you want before you adopt. I'm a big advocate of adoption. There aren't enough decent family units out there to take in children in need. Seriously, think about it!

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13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

In comparison to you I'm only 23 so I'm not considered an "older waiter". However being female does have it's own pressures too since men can always go for younger women but women don't have that luxury. 

However I think with this point, I can see why it would be worrying. That's why I also wanted to get married young and have all my kids (I want 4) before I was 30 after having a couple of years just enjoying being married. I just don't like the idea of being an older parent, similar to you but also because  my parents and grandparents had us pretty young ish so that's the only example I've been given and I've seen the advantages of having kids young as a woman. 

I think God intended for people to marry and have kids young. Even for those who don't believe in God can't deny this fact given the evidence of women's fertility going downhill in her 30's. I find it troubling how Western society are delaying marriage and children later in life in favor of careers and material things. I hear so many women in their 40's or older regret not having children when they were younger because they've been brainwashed to think her worth is based solely on a career. Some may truly value a career and never want kids but not many. I believe deep down most women really do want to get married and have kids. I think you are wise to realize this at a young age and pursue after that.

 

13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

It's true that your wife would be exhausted from taking care of your children but the amount you have sex is something that should be discussed well before hand like during the engagement phase. Luckily my parent's have provided me with a positive view on sex inside of marriage and one thing that they did do when they had children is schedule sex in. A lot of people are under the illusion that sex should be this impromptu thing all the time when that's actually not feasible all the time due to busy schedules, especially after children. Sometimes you have to plan to have sex on a particular day and stick to it because husbands and wives need to ensure that the nurture their sexual relationship. Even if you don't 100% feel like it, sex seems to be one of those things that the more you do it, the more you want it and vice versa, especially for women and myself. 

 Yeah, the spontaneous sex is likely to be rare if at all present after the kids are born. As unromantic as it seems, you pretty much have to plan sex into the busy schedules. I think that unless I'm sick or just dead exhausted, most guys are generally always up for sex even if we aren't particularly in the mood for it. Which for me personally is extremely rare that I'm not in the mood ;) To me, sex is kind of like a delicious snack. Even when I'm not particularly hungry, I can still eat it and enjoy it. lol.

 

13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

I think the concerns with the type of woman who wouldn't want sex or do it once a decade (this did make me laugh :lol: and then slightly worried that some people are like that)

As I'm sure you've noticed, I have a very hyperbolic and overly dramatic sense of humor :P 

 

13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

However that would be obvious with the discussions that you have with her during the dating stage I hope.  For me (let me know if this is TMI) I masturbate (mainly because of my cycles and that I enjoy the sensations, not because I've seen an attractive person because none of those people are my husband lol) and I feel like that's actually helped me get in touch with my sexuality and look forward to sex within marriage with my husband. Before I was very apprehensive about sex and did see it as a chore but now I see it in a very positive light which has me to not see it as a chore but as a blessing. Now I know that masturbation can be very controversial within Christianity and other religions but personally I feel like its a medium for people to express their sexuality in a way that allows them to accept the fact that they are sexual beings without repressing it as a single person. I found during particular seasons that the more I masturbate, the more I desire to get married and have sex with my husband and I feel like sex is the same way. Now I know that this doesn't work for everyone and it's a bit like alcohol (some people are fine drinking it whereas others are not, and that's fine by me) but I just wanted to provide a person experience that I feel has helped me and may provide some reassurance to you. Everyone is on their own journey your future wife may be on that journey, especially if she is a virgin, to wire her brain to accept that her sexuality it to be embraced. This can be hard when women are told to repress it and we are assumed to not have a sex drive (which I'm pretty sure isn't the case for me haha).  

Yeah I am not sure what I think on the issue of masturbation. But I have heard of stories where there were serious intimacy problems even between two virgins who waited. It's because usually the woman feels a sense of guilt or "filthiness" about her because she was taught to repress her sexuality. This is where I think the church gets wrong. They conflate normal healthy sexual desire as the same thing as lust. In reality those two are very different things. It's normal and good to have a healthy amount of sexual desire. That should not be shamed at all.

 

13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

I think though the fact that men need sex does make it a chore in some ways for women who aren't naturally that in tune with their sexuality. Again, my parents have also expressed the fact that men need sex every 3 days (well really it was my dad emphasising the point with my mum agreeing) and that if my dad doesn't start expressing that need, my mum starts to get worried (thinking maybe he's stressed or something). So for me, it's helped wire my brain towards the fact that I will be having sex with my husband every 2/3 days (ideally more especially as I get older). Do I see it as a chore...yes and no. Yes in the sense that there may be times that I don't feel like it but I would be willing to meet my husbands needs at those time but no since I'd be pretty disappointed to find out that my husband didn't want to do it as often as that minimum. No-one said that chores can't be fun ;) I want to please my husband sexually and I hope he would want to do the same :) It would suck if he found sex to be a chore though since although it's rarer, I'm also worried about being with a man who had a lower libido than I do but again I hope to find this out during the engagement stage and we would hopefully work around that before we're married. 

See, the part of your statement that I put in bold is one of the things I wish more women understood. Your future husband is going to be real blessed knowing you will want to please him. Now to be 100% clear, I do not under any circumstances, believe either person should be coerced through guilt or physical force into doing anything without consent. That being said, I do not believe "not feeling like it" in and of itself when it's not out of sickness or extreme exhaustion is a good enough reason not to have sex. This is especially true for us Christians because the Bible tells us not to deprive each other sexually except in a time of mutual consent and prayer and that time of abstaining must be short. Could you imagine if a woman was emotionally distraught and needed support from her husband but he denied her because he didn't feel like it? That would also be horrible. Part of truly loving someone is tending to their needs even in times when it's not easy. That goes both ways.

And yes I do agree it would be a huge concern to find out your man has a much lower libido than you. It would make me question if he is really a man at all :P 

 

13 hours ago, BlackRose said:

I think that main thing is to find someone who has a healthy view on sex and sexuality within marriage that aligns with yours. Someone who would be excited to have sex regularly and is open to talk about what they would like to do and not do (within marriage of course). That's the kind of woman you want and I'm sure she out there waiting for you :D 

I absolutely 100% agree. I want to find someone who isn't afraid of talking about sex candidly with excitement. It really surprises me how so many embarrassed to talk about sex even when they've been together for so long. Maybe I'm just weird but I have no problem being open and explicit about it. Sex is a fascinating subject. Why wouldn't we want to talk about it :P Thanks for your encouragement. I pray the same kind of guy is out there waiting for you too :)

 

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

What about adoption? You can take as long as you want before you adopt. I'm a big advocate of adoption. There aren't enough decent family units out there to take in children in need. Seriously, think about it!

Yes I do intend to adopt at least one child. That's something I always wanted to do. But I also would like to have my own biological children too. 

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3 hours ago, Invincible said:

I think God intended for people to marry and have kids young. Even for those who don't believe in God can't deny this fact given the evidence of women's fertility going downhill in her 30's. I find it troubling how Western society are delaying marriage and children later in life in favor of careers and material things. I hear so many women in their 40's or older regret not having children when they were younger because they've been brainwashed to think her worth is based solely on a career. Some may truly value a career and never want kids but not many. I believe deep down most women really do want to get married and have kids. I think you are wise to realize this at a young age and pursue after that.

I completely agree. My mom has a very successful career but she told me that she always regretted only having one kid. 

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Hey Vince, 

   I don't think you are complaining about worst-case scenarios. I believe you are being realistic in your views and thank you for posting. These feelings of yours are some that I have definitely felt as I have become older as a waiter. I will be honest and say that I have many unmarried aunts and uncles and while I respect them for choosing to be single for whatever reason, it pains me that maybe I won't get married in the future.  I think that maybe your feelings stem from the thought, "hey what what will I miss out on ." As you get older, I know I have felt my dating pool shrink. It seems that many woman are already taken or they are just not into you. The older male waiter seems to be a rarity among the males in our society. However, I do think there is a silver lining here. As you get older, I think you become more sure and stable in life (for the most part) than you were at your younger ages. i also think women sense it and gravitate toward it. From knowing you in the forums for many years, you have matured as a person (I think) and it shows. I don't know what the future is in store for you but I believe it is a bright one.

Here is a story that may cheer your spirits:

I was watching a tv show about a man who came back to his Christian faith and he had the same worries as you: when will I meet my wife. Anyway, he wanted to get married and this feeling was genetically ingrained in him. I mean, throughout his daily life, he would think about it constantly and complain to God about it. High school comes and he thinks he will have a girlfriend, Nope. No girls are interested in him. College comes and he joins this prayer group thinking he will met his future wife in that group. He found that his interaction and membership in the group increased his prayer and spiritual life. Long story short, he did find his wife but he was 35...35 years old. He also worried about having babies because let's face it, he is getting older.  First time does not work, not even the second time, but through prayer him and his wife conceive and they have two twin daughters. 

I think the hardest part is to trust in God with your life (I find it difficult too), but I think if you let go and let God in control, you will have weight off of your shoulders. I will keep you in my prayers about your feelings in this post

Chris

 

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I'm going to be 31 in May, does that count as an older waiter? I actually still feel like I'm pretty young, I've known women to have children in their late 30s. 

What I mostly wanted to comment on was

On 11/24/2017 at 3:10 AM, Invincible said:

 But I also don't want to put undue pressure on my future wife for sex since she will likely be exhausted a lot from taking care of our children all day. As much as I would want sex, I would rather she have it with me because she joyfully wants it, not because she begrudgingly goes along as a chore. 

As someone who exercises after work, I feel like sex after a long day would be a welcomed stress relief and awesome 'we' time. But who knows, maybe I'm just weird :lol:

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I'll be 27 tomorrow. Honestly, I think I'm getting to the point of not caring if I lose my virginity. I'm still going to do the right thing, but if it never happens it never happens. More and more everyday I can't imagine myself doing the sex act, and even though I love this one woman in my life, I know that I can never be with her and that she puts me to shame in so many areas. She doesn't deserve someone like me.

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On 11/26/2017 at 5:52 AM, Invincible said:

Well, personally I'm looking for a traditional kind of marriage where I have a career while she stays at home with the kids. The thing is, I know I will always be thinking about the state of the marriage. I'm just not so sure if she would. Your second statement above is exactly why I brought this point up. I hear stories about how it's very common for mothers to unintentionally make their kids their sole purpose in life and neglect their husbands. That is more real to me especially since my mom was kind of like that with my sister and I growing up. To me this is really backwards. I strongly believe that a marriage should come first even before kids. That's not to say we should neglect kids. But your spouse is your partner for life. One day your kids will leave the nest and have their own families, but your spouse will still be there till death. When a marriage is bad, the kids suffer. But when a marriage is strong, the kids will benefit because both parents are living harmoniously.

I personally am willing to do what it takes to set aside at least some time for just the two of us. I just need to make sure I meet a girl who is determined to do the same.

On 11/26/2017 at 5:52 AM, Invincible said:

Since I am pretty picky, I intend to be as keenly aware of the vibes I get from a girl I am considering marrying. I could not marry a woman with little to no sex drive or any passion at all.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. While you're dating just clearly discuss your expectations/ideas for the kind of foundation you expect in your marriage (as you just did above), you will greatly mitigate (not eliminate) the risk of having a wife prioritizing her children before her marriage. 

You're not picky, you just know yourself better than most people know themselves. On the bright side of things, I would imagine if you married the kind of women you're looking for she will respect, see the value and greatly appreciate the work you put into your carrier, just as you will have for her role in raising the children. And you two will look for ways to reward each other...Also, one of many great benefits to knowing yourself well, it can allow you to focus more on the person you're dating and not yourself. And this can give you confidence in your decisions when you're dating and weeding out the prospects.

As you already know, finding a spouse is largely a numbers game. If you can't find the types of Christian women you're compatible with, have you considered moving to a state where you will have greater odds of finding compatible woman? ...i.e. They don't call them the Bible belt states for nothing.

 

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1 hour ago, SG1 said:

As you already know, finding a spouse is largely a numbers game. If you can't find the types of Christian women you're compatible with, have you considered moving to a state where you will have greater odds of finding compatible woman? ...i.e. They don't call them the Bible belt states for nothing.

Yes, in fact I was planning on moving out of my state anyways. I'm so sick of the rain and the general culture here. Not to mention my state has the lowest percentage of church goers in the country. Now church attendance or lack thereof doesn't automatically determine one's spiritual beliefs, but it is a good general indication. I have been to the South and I quite like it there. So yeah, I might just do that. lol

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This whole topic has been on my mind a lot the last couple months... I've been worrying about this for about 15 years now, and a month shy of 27 I've still only been met with rejection. Worse than that, I've struggled to connect with people for the last 8 years, and what few friends I've made moved away after about a year or two.

I worried about the having kids thing, but my conclusion now is that I can't emotionally handle having kids. It would take too long to recover from years of loneliness and depression and waiting to do so many things in life because I wanted to wait and share those things with a significant other. 

Depression has recently started to grow into anger, an emotion which is so foreign and against my nature that I don't know how to deal with it... I just feel myself getting worse, and I've been praying about this so long that I don't have any hope anymore. I expect life to only get more painful and bleak, I honestly just hope for a short one.

The only thing I feel like I can do right now is save and invest heavily in hopes that I can retire young enough that I can at least have the time to enjoy with a significant other if I can ever find someone... Unfortunately though, while waiting is a requirement, so are similar interests and intelligence. Ive even met a few girls who I really got along with who met all of these requirements, but they only used me for attention and never wanted anything more because I'm not attractive enough.

Sorry to vent, but no one understands why I feel so defeated and hopeless now, and no one understands why I place such importance on waiting for marriage and wanting the same from an SO. Which in terms just makes me feel more alone...

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I spent several years down in Houston and found an amazing church. I met some of the best people I have ever known down there. I could tell you all about it but I’d be taking up way too much room in this thread. If you can move to a location without placing too much risk on your career, I’d strongly encourage you to try it, considering how important finding a wife is to you and the joy it would bring you…especially, if you have never lived outside your state or have been there since college. If you’re 45, single, never had a relationship, still in the same place and that thought bothers you…then you might regret not taking the chance to move, when you were younger.…although, OR is a very beautiful state so in that sense you will be downgrading lol. If you do move, I hope you update everyone with a post.  Good luck Vince!

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On 12/10/2017 at 7:48 PM, SG1 said:

I spent several years down in Houston and found an amazing church. I met some of the best people I have ever known down there. I could tell you all about it but I’d be taking up way too much room in this thread. If you can move to a location without placing too much risk on your career, I’d strongly encourage you to try it, considering how important finding a wife is to you and the joy it would bring you…especially, if you have never lived outside your state or have been there since college. If you’re 45, single, never had a relationship, still in the same place and that thought bothers you…then you might regret not taking the chance to move, when you were younger.…although, OR is a very beautiful state so in that sense you will be downgrading lol. If you do move, I hope you update everyone with a post.  Good luck Vince!

No, by all means tell the story. You can comment as much as you like. lol. The career I am pursuing does have the possibility of remote opportunities so I could relocate pretty easily. I do not intend to wait around for my life to happen. I already wasted too much time doing that as it is. Yes OR is beautiful but it's not nearly enough to redeem 9 months of nonstop rain and all the rampant secularism and leftism. I will not be missing it at all except for maybe the no sales tax law.

Thanks for all your input. I will keep you guys updated when I can.

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On 12/13/2017 at 3:59 AM, Invincible said:

No, by all means tell the story. You can comment as much as you like. lol. The career I am pursuing does have the possibility of remote opportunities so I could relocate pretty easily. I do not intend to wait around for my life to happen. I already wasted too much time doing that as it is. Yes OR is beautiful but it's not nearly enough to redeem 9 months of nonstop rain and all the rampant secularism and leftism. I will not be missing it at all except for maybe the no sales tax law.

Thanks for all your input. I will keep you guys updated when I can.

BTW when I lived in Texas they had no state income tax and you could buy a nice house in the suburbs for 100k. Your money will go way further in a lot of southern areas, then it will in OR…Speaking of which I love the show Gold Rush and the Hoffmans are from Sandy, OR.

Ok since you said I can comment as much as I like, I will and I'm not sorry for how long-winded this is:)

I am sure I won’t be telling you anything you don't already know about churches….That being said I had no idea how difficult it would be to find a good singles group. This was surprising to me because there were churches freaking everywhere in Houston...like Starbucks and Edward Jones lol.  Which btw if a you're not interested in finding a singles program wherever you end up moving to but rather care more about the church, then this is not going to be very interesting. So I learned that maintaining a singles program has many challenges for a church and can be quite difficult to maintain. The main reason/s I was given is singles come and go because 1) They will be more likely to travel for their careers. 2) They will be more inclined to pick up and move for personal reasons i.e. a better location or for a better career. Whereas a family will tend to be more stable for a longer period of time. I am sure this is common sense to everyone but I was still in the college mindset…lol despite being 26 at that time and did not think of that. Instead I was just focusing on my disappointment because it seemed like every church I visited just disregarded singles…like they only valued couples.

So I ended up visiting about 7 or 8 medium to smaller sized churches and 4 megachurches before I found the one for me. The main problem with the smaller/medium sized churches was, they did not have a singles program. They had single people in the church but that was it. So I decided to check out the megachurches but I was not too keen on that idea.…

There was one megachurch in particular that was well known for their prosperity preaching. Personally, I disagree with that and I also think it can be dangerous preaching that stuff when people are seeking help because they are down in life. The other hang up I had with the megachurches I ended up visiting, was their aggressive pressure to baptize you. It was their metric for growth and they spent WAY too much time presenting their baptism statistics during church…There is nothing wrong with a church growing, I just don’t think they should try to grow like a fortune 500 company…Lots of other things can suffer when you’re main goal is growth. Ohh and I personally define a megachurch as having 2k members per service.

The 1st megachurch did not have a singles program, much like the smaller/medium churches. The second one had two services on every Sunday with 7k + members per service….I thought this one has to have a good singles group. If just 1% of each service contains singles, that’s at least 70 people per service…..Nope…I was wrong…They had a group that met once per month with 10-12 people at most, aging from 18-55….Not even joking.

The 3rd church had a little over 30k members total across several campuses throughout the city…every Sunday. I visited the church for 6 months because I really liked the lead pastor but during that time no one came up and said hi…Which is totally understandable, you’re going to get lost in a sea of people…Now I don’t know if this will make sense….But for me being a single guy, I would have felt uncomfortable going up to married couples or families and introducing myself. I was worried they might mistake my friendliness for interest in their wives…So I was hoping maybe someone would see me alone and at least strike up a conversation but that never happened. I decided to try their singles program which consisted of about 15-20 people in my age range but they only met during the week at someone’s house. First, I had to sign up for church’s social media version of Facebook (which they relentlessly pushed on everyone…every Sunday). They kept saying that is the only way to get connected...umm yeah I know...red flag city....So I signed up and I had to send a message to the pastor to the singles group…well 3 weeks later and after 2 follow up messages, he finally got back to me lol. We talked on the phone regarding their program and the coursework they use to study the Bible. I mentioned how I have a few atheist friends and I asked if they also study the scientific and logical arguments that people use for and against the existence of God…he told me “ Our singles program is for believes in Jesus and this would not be what you’re looking for.”….ummmm lol what???? Yeah I was done trying to get involved with that place.  

Then I found Second Baptist…well it was a megachurch and it was right by my apartment…Anyway, that is where I unequivocally met some of the best people in my entire life.Their singles group was true fellowship, community and love. For me, experiencing that really made me realize that family goes way beyond sharing DNA. At least for me it’s how people treat you and the connections you build with them. I was very very very grateful for the experience. Two of their four campuses combined had well over 100 singles from 21-40 and they met on Sundays and Wednesdays. They had separate singles groups for 40+.  

The congregation was very welcoming and accepting of people from all different kinds of ideological beliefs and backgrounds. They had no problem sharing their values, beliefs and the reasons why they have them. If you disagreed, that was ok they still accepted you…Naturally, you have to still respect their values…For instance some people enjoyed weed but clearly never brought that stuff around. After services, the singles group always had fun activities planned like playing volleyball, softball, basketball, video game night or going fishing, kayaking, movies, dinners, dancing, many of the amazing shooting ranges in Texas, sporting events and lots more.…My favorite was when families would volunteer their their ranches for the singles to use…so we got to do a lot of two day outings with bbq (btw Texas has the best bbq…especially dry rub!), bonfires and lol more shooting...The best was when a girl would out shoot a guy/s. Yeah I am a gun enthusiast and love target shooting and have a few guns myself so I really enjoyed the fact that it is normal down there.  

As fare as dating, many of the single Christians (at least from my experience and from what everyone else said) were online because many of Churches did not seem to have a solid singles program. You had to be really careful because if you date someone in the group and it’s a bad break up….you’re kinda screwed…You don’t really have any other groups to go to. Ohh and there was a couple in the upper 30s that met and got married in our singles group at our campus. So always remember it’s never too late to find love. I hope you will have a similar story to share one day.  I don’t know if this is a thing or not…but someone needs to start a dang singles church!

I guess in all that nonsensical rambling…If a singles program is important to you, maybe do some research into the churches before you move. Give them a call and talk about the things that are important to you. If other churches in different cities also experience similar difficulties, then at least if you will be in a city with way more options, although you’ll have to go through the ropes of online dating.  

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8 hours ago, SG1 said:

I am sure I won’t be telling you anything you don't already know about churches….That being said I had no idea how difficult it would be to find a good singles group. This was surprising to me because there were churches freaking everywhere in Houston...like Starbucks and Edward Jones lol.  Which btw if a you're not interested in finding a singles program wherever you end up moving to but rather care more about the church, then this is not going to be very interesting. So I learned that maintaining a singles program has many challenges for a church and can be quite difficult to maintain. The main reason/s I was given is singles come and go because 1) They will be more likely to travel for their careers. 2) They will be more inclined to pick up and move for personal reasons i.e. a better location or for a better career. Whereas a family will tend to be more stable for a longer period of time. I am sure this is common sense to everyone but I was still in the college mindset…lol despite being 26 at that time and did not think of that. Instead I was just focusing on my disappointment because it seemed like every church I visited just disregarded singles…like they only valued couples.

My priority is first and foremost to find a church that is committed to biblical truth. Finding a wife is secondary. Though ideally I can find one that has both because church is the ideal place to find a Christian wife, obviously. None of the churches I have been to had singles groups so I don't really know what to expect. But I can see why it would be tough to balance out. Another problem I hear from people who've been to these events is the can be a lot of competition. There can be lots of jealousy involved when two or more people are pursuing the same person. I have friends who had to leave the group because the object of their affection rejected them and chose someone else. As you can see that makes for a lot of awkward situations. So I feel like I have to keep a certain amount of emotional distance.

8 hours ago, SG1 said:

There was one megachurch in particular that was well known for their prosperity preaching. Personally, I disagree with that and I also think it can be dangerous preaching that stuff when people are seeking help because they are down in life. The other hang up I had with the megachurches I ended up visiting, was their aggressive pressure to baptize you. It was their metric for growth and they spent WAY too much time presenting their baptism statistics during church…There is nothing wrong with a church growing, I just don’t think they should try to grow like a fortune 500 company…Lots of other things can suffer when you’re main goal is growth. Ohh and I personally define a megachurch as having 2k members per service.

I completely agree. The prosperity gospel is a false gospel. I will even go so far as to say it is a message of demonic nature. I don't say that lightly either. You have people like Joel Osteen and others promise health and wealth as a reward for good faith. Guess who else promised that? Satan did when he tried to tempt Jesus in the desert. It's no surprise that message is so popular because it tickles people's ears. So many people are being deceived. Though sometimes I do think megachurches get an unfairly bad rep. There are some megachurches that donates a larger percentage of money to charity compared to smaller churches. So they aren't all bad.

 

8 hours ago, SG1 said:

The 3rd church had a little over 30k members total across several campuses throughout the city…every Sunday. I visited the church for 6 months because I really liked the lead pastor but during that time no one came up and said hi…Which is totally understandable, you’re going to get lost in a sea of people…Now I don’t know if this will make sense….But for me being a single guy, I would have felt uncomfortable going up to married couples or families and introducing myself. I was worried they might mistake my friendliness for interest in their wives…So I was hoping maybe someone would see me alone and at least strike up a conversation but that never happened. I decided to try their singles program which consisted of about 15-20 people in my age range but they only met during the week at someone’s house. First, I had to sign up for church’s social media version of Facebook (which they relentlessly pushed on everyone…every Sunday). They kept saying that is the only way to get connected...umm yeah I know...red flag city....So I signed up and I had to send a message to the pastor to the singles group…well 3 weeks later and after 2 follow up messages, he finally got back to me lol. We talked on the phone regarding their program and the coursework they use to study the Bible. I mentioned how I have a few atheist friends and I asked if they also study the scientific and logical arguments that people use for and against the existence of God…he told me “ Our singles program is for believes in Jesus and this would not be what you’re looking for.”….ummmm lol what???? Yeah I was done trying to get involved with that place.  

That is why I think megachurches are not ideal. When churches are too big, you can't get to know others very intimately. Also, it's in my experience that Christians are sometimes the most socially retarded people on Earth. It's like many of them do not have the slightest clue on how to interact with the opposite sex. I volunteered with the children's ministry at my old church and I was just making casual conversation with another volunteer who was a woman. I simply said hi and asked how long she's been volunteering. She looked at me as if she saw a ghost and quickly brought up her husband in her answer, indicating she was taken. Geez woman. I'm just saying hi and making small talk, not throwing money at you asking for a lapdance or anything. smh.

I personally have a big problem with the over reliance on social media in churches. Like from your experience, it is really impersonal. I get that it has a place and it helps communicate with people effectively, but it's also important to foster close relationships in person too. Now that it's popular to post sermons on audio or video on the church website, a lot of people skip attending church just so they can listen at home. Faith isn't supposed to make people lazy.

8 hours ago, SG1 said:

The congregation was very welcoming and accepting of people from all different kinds of ideological beliefs and backgrounds. They had no problem sharing their values, beliefs and the reasons why they have them. If you disagreed, that was ok they still accepted you…Naturally, you have to still respect their values…For instance some people enjoyed weed but clearly never brought that stuff around. After services, the singles group always had fun activities planned like playing volleyball, softball, basketball, video game night or going fishing, kayaking, movies, dinners, dancing, many of the amazing shooting ranges in Texas, sporting events and lots more.…My favorite was when families would volunteer their their ranches for the singles to use…so we got to do a lot of two day outings with bbq (btw Texas has the best bbq…especially dry rub!), bonfires and lol more shooting...The best was when a girl would out shoot a guy/s. Yeah I am a gun enthusiast and love target shooting and have a few guns myself so I really enjoyed the fact that it is normal down there.

Wow that sounds like a fun singles group. If anyone were to even suggest a shooting range as a church event here, the leadership would have a heart attack and recommend that you get psychiatric help. lol. You see why I feel out of place here? I cannot be open with my interest in guns here without making many people uncomfortable. All the guys here are extremely effeminate to the point they would have PTSD just by holding a gun. lol. Of course Texas would all be all about BBQ. That is yet another reason why I need to move down there. I bet every steak house in TX has the 72 oz steak challenge. lol. 

 

8 hours ago, SG1 said:

As fare as dating, many of the single Christians (at least from my experience and from what everyone else said) were online because many of Churches did not seem to have a solid singles program. You had to be really careful because if you date someone in the group and it’s a bad break up….you’re kinda screwed…You don’t really have any other groups to go to. Ohh and there was a couple in the upper 30s that met and got married in our singles group at our campus. So always remember it’s never too late to find love. I hope you will have a similar story to share one day.  I don’t know if this is a thing or not…but someone needs to start a dang singles church!

Yeah single groups can be problematic that way. It's almost like we have to default to online groups. But they work and many people have met in this forum and got married. I appreciate you saying that. I hope the same for you if you haven't already.

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Invincible said:

My priority is first and foremost to find a church that is committed to biblical truth. Finding a wife is secondary. Though ideally I can find one that has both because church is the ideal place to find a Christian wife, obviously. None of the churches I have been to had singles groups so I don't really know what to expect. But I can see why it would be tough to balance out. Another problem I hear from people who've been to these events is the can be a lot of competition. There can be lots of jealousy involved when two or more people are pursuing the same person. I have friends who had to leave the group because the object of their affection rejected them and chose someone else. As you can see that makes for a lot of awkward situations. So I feel like I have to keep a certain amount of emotional distance.

Yeah you will have no problem with finding what you're looking for, especially in Texas and a few other Bible belt states. Yes, I can totally see the jealousy thing being an issue. I only experienced that once in my singles group (not me personally but saw it happen)...There was one guy that a lot of the girls had a massive crush on and things got pretty competitive between a few of the girls and one left our campus and went to another one in the congregation. I totally agree with keeping the emotional distance, unless you're really certain that you two could actually get married...otherwise, yeah I think that's a good approach. Maybe other people with more experience socializing with Christian Singles groups will have more insight...I have only been a part of one group and it was only for a little over a year.

On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Invincible said:

The prosperity gospel is a false gospel. I will even go so far as to say it is a message of demonic nature.

I don't want to say the name of the pastor but he was on TV. I was watching him because I was considering attending his church...This was a while ago so I might not be remembering correctly but I am rather certain he said "God wants you to drive a Cadillac and He wants you to have a nice house." The pastor then went on to say what you need to do to have God bless you with these things...I was shocked and completely befuddled...that is so wrong to me. As fare as the demonic stuff....Peter Popoff is one such monster. Worst of all he is back at his old schemes again...I don't usually say this stuff but I am pretty sure if he died today, he's going straight to hell.

 

On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Invincible said:

Guess who else promised that? Satan did when he tried to tempt Jesus in the desert.

Ohh yeah I totally forgot about that. Good point

On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Invincible said:

Also, it's in my experience that Christians are sometimes the most socially retarded people on Earth. It's like many of them do not have the slightest clue on how to interact with the opposite sex. I volunteered with the children's ministry at my old church and I was just making casual conversation with another volunteer who was a woman. I simply said hi and asked how long she's been volunteering. She looked at me as if she saw a ghost and quickly brought up her husband in her answer, indicating she was taken. Geez woman. I'm just saying hi and making small talk, not throwing money at you asking for a lapdance or anything. smh.

LMAO:lol: 

wow her reaction is really irritating. That annoys me so much! Just imagine what would have happened if you actually complemented her? She probably would have maced you...thinking you wanted sex from her or something crazy...sounds like she was home schooled lol...I can say that because I was home schooled for 3 years haha. I am guessing then you completely understand the reservation I had in going up to couples and being a single guy. On semi-unrelated note, I always appreciate a women who can gracefully read a situation and graciously accept a harmless and nice complement.

On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Invincible said:

Wow that sounds like a fun singles group. If anyone were to even suggest a shooting range as a church event here, the leadership would have a heart attack and recommend that you get psychiatric help. lol. You see why I feel out of place here? I cannot be open with my interest in guns here without making many people uncomfortable. All the guys here are extremely effeminate to the point they would have PTSD just by holding a gun. lol.

If you have not experienced that kind of community before, then I hope you do. They were an amazing bunch of people and overall so was the church...that is saying a lot coming from me because I am not a Baptist. I actually graduated from a Baptist college and could not stand them...Anyway, that church was awesome and there are definitely things you would love about it.

Geez really? A recreational shooting range...like skeet shooting, timed courses or just paper targets? Have they negatively reacted to that before?  lol in fact our community group leaders were usually the ones organizing the trips to the shooting ranges. Well I did not know for sure if you had an interest in guns/recreational shooting but your profile picture is kinda an indicator. haha The people of OR are like that or is it the city you live in? For example, Chicago is insanely strict with gun laws. But I promise you the vast majority of people outside of Chicago...especially, southern IL are pro gun.  I know WA is hyper liberal...actually, I think they are the most liberal state in the US... so that I can understand haha.

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