Geraldine

Comments about "Red flags" : Going to church or not?

22 posts in this topic

Hey everybody :)

Again, I share some comments that I found very interesting regarding the article Red flags written by PeacefulSingleGirl here :http://peacefulsinglegirl.com/big-red-flags/

Those coments are about the fact of "Going regularly to church or not going regularly to church" as a red flag or not.

I think the arguments below are quite relevants...

What are your opinions on that subject ?  I mean, is the fact of "not going to church " a red flag for you in a potential partner or not?

COMMENTS:

Jonathan on September 30, 2015 at 8:09 am

“If you meet a guy who says he’s a Christian but refuses to go to church – that can be a huge warning sign. …”

Unfortunately April the majority of American churches endorse or promote heterodox practices and beliefs. I’m not going to exhaustively enumerate but some of the really big ones are:
• The Bible only contains God’s word. That is, parts of the Bible are cultural artifacts and can be ignored.
• They deny that God created heaven and earth in six days.
• That Jesus Christ was a sinner.
• That there is one God who exists in three persons (Trinity).
• That of our own will and effort we can atone for our sins.

 

Peacefulwife on September 30, 2015 at 7:10 pm

Jonathan,

That is why I put “it can be a huge warning sign” – not “it is always a huge warning sign” – because there can be valid reasons why men may decide not to attend specific churches. Unfortunately, there are many churches today, especially in certain areas of the country, where churches have forsaken the Bible as the Word of God and the source of truth.

This is HEARTBREAKING!

 

Jonathan on September 30, 2015 at 8:14 am

I should clarify that they *deny* the Trinity. They won’t subscribe to the Athanasian creed:
https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

 

Peacefulwife on October 10, 2016 at 9:23 am

A Wife’s New Understanding of the Red Flags She Missed before Marriage by the Satisfied Wife
https://peacefulwife.com/2016/10/06/a-wifes-new-understanding-of-the-red-flags-she-missed-before-marriage/
Learn from My Mistakes about Ignoring Red Flags – by the Satisfied Wife
http://wp.me/p6xLFb-2Ye

 

Alistair Mcnaughton on October 21, 2016 at 4:40 am

Very good advice peaceful wife just a thought on previous sexual experience, given that some marriages end in death in the early years its not a sin for a widow or widower to remarry, Paul even recommends it in 1st Cor! And there previous experience won’t necessarily stop as close one flesh bond as two virgins given no sin was committed.

 

Peacefulwife on October 21, 2016 at 12:33 pm

Alistair McNaughton,

That is very true!

 

Jonathan on October 21, 2016 at 6:15 pm

Ok April :
It appears that a significant minority of church goers are cohabiting:
http://issuesetc.org/2016/02/10/4-cohabitation-pr-mark-surburg-21016/

See also:
The Churches Institutionalized Fornication
http://surburg.blogspot.com/2016/01/marks-thoughts-churchs.html?m=1

Game over! I am never going to church again. The practice is wide spread and the religion workers are too scared to confront it.
American Christianity is a complete joke. This is why this Christian man won’t go to church.

 

Peacefulwife on October 21, 2016 at 8:20 pm

Jonathan,

This is so heartbreaking! This is not at all what church is supposed to be like. I can certainly understand your frustration. God is not okay with us embracing sin like this. I can’t begin to imagine how much this grieves Him.

I have a feeling that as persecution begins to increase in the coming years, it will probably fix a lot of this kind of gangrene that is going on. But how I pray we will repent now and that God’s Spirit might work in a mighty way to bring a Great Awakening and that we might forsake all sin and become a godly generation that will leave a holy legacy to the next generation.

 

Jonathan on October 24, 2016 at 6:41 pm

I have a feeling that insisting men go to church is a bad requirement:
Fraud is Thriving in U.S Churches
http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2013/11/18/fraud-thriving-in-u-s-churches-but-you-wouldnt-know-it/#7d66a1096fea
“Every organization exempt from federal income tax under IRS 501(a) must file an annual information return except: 1) A church …. “

I’ve personally attended churches where the pastor funneled moneys from thrivent to bail out upside down homeowners.
The revival came and went and it had no effect.

 

Peacefulwife on October 24, 2016 at 9:08 pm

Jonathan,

It is not my desire to force or insist that any man – or anyone at all – do anything. I can certainly understand a believer’s reluctance to go to a church that is extremely sinful, worldly, and ungodly. My hope is that we would look to Scripture, which does admonish us not to forsake the gathering together with the Body. I can’t bring myself to tell believers to disobey a biblical command.

God always does keep a remnant. I pray that as we seek to find godly believers so that we can worship, that we might be able to find at least a few. I know this is more difficult in some areas than in others. But we are not intended to be alone, the Body is meant to bless, edify, and build up one another.

Much love in Christ!
April

 

Peacefulwife on October 24, 2016 at 9:24 pm

Jonathan,

There are churches where there are wolves – for sure. But there are also still some churches where God is working mightily! So thankful for that. I pray His Spirit will transform us all.

 

Jonathan on October 25, 2016 at 12:34 am

“I pray His Spirit will transform us all.”

That is very interesting April. Are we saved because we are transformed or are we saved by the atonement of Christ? Is salvation performance based or due to grace *alone*
Suppose someone should be caught in the act of adultery and the foulest crimes and then be thrown into prison. Suppose, next, that judgment was going to be passed against him and that he would be condemned. Suppose that just at that moment a letter should come from the Emperor setting free from any accounting or examination all those detained in prison. If the prisoner should refuse to take advantage of the pardon, remain obstinate and choose to be brought to trial, to give an account, and to undergo punishment, he will not be able thereafter to avail himself of the Emperor’s favor. For when he made himself accountable to the court, examination, and sentence, he chose of his own accord to deprive himself of the imperial gift. This is what happened in the case of the Jews. Look how it is. All human nature was taken in the foulest evils. “All have sinned,” says Paul. They were locked, as it were, in a prison by the curse of their transgression of the Law. The sentence of the judge was going to be passed against them. A letter from the King came down from heaven. Rather, the King himself came. Without examination, without exacting an account, he set all men free from the chains of their sins. All, then, who run to Christ are saved by his grace and profit from his gift. But those who wish to find justification from the Law will also fall from grace. They will not be able to enjoy the King’s loving-kindness because they are striving to gain salvation by their own efforts; they will draw down on themselves the curse of the Law because by the works of the Law no flesh will find justification.

Peacefulwife on October 25, 2016 at 11:46 am

Jonathan,

Thank you for sharing this. I love the illustration you used. Yes, we are completely dependent on Jesus’ work on the cross to make us right with God – which brings about our justification as we receive His gift of grace. And then, even in the process of sanctification, we are completely dependent on God’s Spirit to change us by His power. Our own works can’t accomplish anything good. It is all about what He does for us and in us. And yet, how amazing that He allows us to participate in His beautiful work in our lives. He allows us to invite Him in and He allows us to choose to submit or rebel. My prayer is that we might submit to Him and allow His Spirit to have full control. What a different world this would be!

Jonathan on October 25, 2016 at 12:49 pm

That little homily is by St. John Chrysostom. I did mot write it.

Peacefulwife on October 25, 2016 at 1:18 pm

Jonathan,

I appreciate you sharing it. What a powerful explanation.

Jonathan on October 26, 2016 at 5:36 pm

70% of Women Who Get Abortions Identify as Christians
Additionally, 76 percent of them say that the church had no influence on their decision to go through with the abortion.

http://christianpost.com/news/70-of-women-who-get-abortions-identify-as-christians-survey-finds-150937/

 

Peacefulwife on October 26, 2016 at 6:32 pm

Jonathan,

This is evidence, in my view, that these women do not know Jesus. We have so many in our midst who don’t know God at all. May God wake up His church and heal us of our massive sin, our gangrene, before it kills us.

 

Peacefulwife on October 26, 2016 at 6:33 pm

I shared this on my FB pages this week:

Some “proofs” that you belong to Christ and that His Spirit is working in your heart include things like:
– You begin to hate your sin.
– You WANT God to change you.
– You are willing to learn to trust Him with everything and you want to give up your own control.
– You are willing to submit to Him – meaning, He is in charge now, not you. He is Lord of your life. He is the Master.
– You are willing to seek His will above your own.
– You realize His wisdom is much greater than yours.
– You see Him changing you over time to be more like Jesus.
– You see more and more fruit of the Spirit – Galatians 5:22-23.
– You desire Him or you want to learn to desire Him more than anything else.
– Things of this world begin to be less and less important. You are willing to give up “friendship with the world” in order to have friendship with God.
– Things of God begin to be more and more important.
– You want to hear His voice and obey Him. You learn to recognize His voice and you want to be quick to do whatever He commands.
– You want to spend time with Him.
– You want to please God rather than people.
– You want to hear solid Bible teaching/preaching.
– You are willing to receive life-giving rebukes from God and from mature, godly, wise believers.
– You want to share this Greatest Treasure with many other people.
– You want everyone to know Jesus.
– You want to know God more and more.
– You are passionate about God and you want to be even more on fire for Him. You have a spiritual appetite.
– You have His peace and joy in your heart increasingly.
– You want to love God above everything in life and love other people.
– If you see that you are putting anything above Christ in your life and heart, you are willing to get rid of it no matter how painful it might be.
– You are willing to be content with what you have because your contentment comes from Christ Jesus, not your circumstances.
– You are willing to learn to be thankful for suffering, knowing God is using that to prune, refine, and mature you.
– You want to praise and thank Him.
– You want to pray.
– You want to bless others.
– You want to take care of the poor, the oppressed, those who are hurting, etc…
– You want to love those who mistreat you.
– You want to forgive and not hold on to bitterness.
– The Bible is alive to you, you know God is speaking to you through it, and you want to read it.
– You can’t be comfortable living in sin.
– You want to humble yourself before God and become less and less so that God can become more and more in your life.
– God refines your motives and points out your selfishness, pride, self-righteousness, control, idolatry, jealousy, lust, disrespect, contempt, unforgiveness, bitterness, materialism, greed, etc… and you want to get rid of those things.
– It is His power that is changing you, not your own. He begins to radically change your heart, mind, and soul. You are willing and thankful to grant Him access to allow Him to change you.
– Your motives are just that you love God and want to please Him.
– Your motives are not fear or guilt – but LOVE.

Of course, this is a process – the process of sanctification.
None of us will be perfect until heaven. We grow from babies in Christ to mature adults in Him. But if we belong to Jesus, He will change us and we will respond to His voice. There are times when it is harder to hear Him. Sometimes that is because of sin in our lives – sometimes we are under the enemy’s attack or we are very weak/exhausted/sick. Sometimes we stumble, then we want to get right back up. In general, however, the direction of our lives is moving in the way that I described above.
If you don’t have a relationship with Jesus and you would like to know Him, please let me know and we can talk about how you can receive Jesus’ gift to you – His death on the cross to pay for your sins and His resurrection that can give you victory over sin, death, and hell can be yours. You can be right with God. You can know God intimately here and in heaven forever! That is what I long for each of us to find!

 

Jonathan on October 26, 2016 at 6:39 pm

I’m not here to cast shade on your blog. My point is that requiring church attendance is a useless parameter in choosing to date someone. Personally, I only date unbelievers. They aren’t uptight and they are more accepting.

 

Peacefulwife on October 27, 2016 at 6:49 am

Jonathan,

You certainly have free will to make your choices. You don’t answer to me – no one does. We all answer to Jesus.

My purpose here is to seek to point women to Christ and to walk in obedience to Him. God gives us commands because He has our best interests in mind. Church attendance alone is NOT an accurate indication of someone’s spiritual condition. I completely agree. Many go to church who don’t know Jesus. That is why I talk about many other things, as well. And, if you read the part where I talk about church attendance, I certainly concede that there may be times church attendance is not possible. For instance, if there is truly no Bible-believing, Bible-teaching church anywhere nearby.

The greatest issue is that those who seek to follow Christ look for someone who has a heart that is fully yielded to Christ. God’s Word is clear about that believers are not to marry unbelievers. So that is the standard I will seek to uphold. And He also does say that we are not to forsake assembling together with the Body of Christ. You are welcome to take up those things with the Lord if you disagree. But my desire is to uphold God’s Word here and to promote our obedience to Him.

Unfortunately, I have also seen the fall-out when Christian women choose to marry men who profess Christ but don’t live for Him or when they marry unbelievers on my other blog http://www.peacefulwife.com and I would really like to spare my single sisters the pain of choosing to rebel against God’s design for our marriages. It would be better to remain single and obedient to God than to marry against God’s will.

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:23-24

 

 

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Interesting question actually!

 I best start off with this since: oddly enough I don't go to "Church" as in the normal sense (a building with like-minded people) for several different reasons and it's been this way for over 10 years. Mainly because there wasn't a good one near us. The things that they were teaching we too basic (and there's no point in going if you're not growing spiritually) or the pastor overseeing the church was exhibiting inappropriate behaviour (one divorced his wife and then (very quickly which made it look very suspicious) remarried so that he could get an American passport so he could start preaching). 

As a result of not being able to find a Church, we just do Church as a family in our house on Sundays, watch a sermon, do praise and worship, pray etc. When I have told people, this, it comes across as very odd since it's very unconventional. The others pretend it's okay but still think it's odd.We would try and get back into it again but it's not been very positive. Yet I do have a personal relationship with God and that ultimately is the most important thing about being a Christian. 

I think it's not a complete red flag for me at least. What would be more of a red flag is if they did nothing to maintain a personal relationship with God. However one thing that I am having to think about is what Church would we go to? Since I have a family church, unless he wants to come to that, I'd probably have to head to his one but my negative experiences with Churches as of late have made me rather weary. Also I tend to react badly when people bring me to events and introduce me because I see it more as a burden for the person showing me around - especially when I don't know anyone. 

This is something I need to consider more though but I'm not dating yet so I have plenty of time for thoughts, consideration and prayer on this matter :)  

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I wouldn't say not attending church is a red flag, for ME. I do not attend regularly, only holidays (most of the time) with my family, as I do not subscribe to one specific faith and do not feel right practicing something my heart isn't in. This doesn't make me less Christian, or less able to live a Christian life. So, that being said, I would not hold it against a guy. What I would see as a red flag is not being able to explain your feelings pertaining to ones faith in God, how they treat people, outlooks on acceptance and love, things like that. I enjoy a good faith conversation, and such things, and I believe that helps my growth. Gathering in His name and growth are what's important. Not the place in which it's done, or a specific schedule.

Honestly, I would even attend with him, most of the time, as long as he doesn't ask me to convert.

In my humble opinion. :)

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@BlackRose and @PG1

Thank you both verymuch for your answers :)

To tell the truth, I have the exact same point of view as you BlackRose...I mean,  currently, I don't go to church because I also had bad experiences, similar  as yourself, and also as Jonathan explained in the comments of the article.

On 12/07/2017 at 9:27 PM, BlackRose said:

As a result of not being able to find a Church, we just do Church as a family in our house on Sundays, watch a sermon, do praise and worship, pray etc.

I think that's absolutely awesome indeed ! I believe that it's how God intended things... : that members of family can worship Him and pray together , that's really beautiful and I'm in admiration in front of that.

On 12/07/2017 at 9:27 PM, BlackRose said:

When I have told people, this, it comes across as very odd since it's very unconventional. The others pretend it's okay but still think it's odd.We would try and get back into it again but it's not been very positive.

:lol::P I totally understand that ! Welcome to my world !:lol:

At the end of the day, what matters most is what God thinks about us, not people. Because we will answer to Him. So... I think that you and your family do the right thing, as long as the purpose is to honor God and follow the principles of the Bible.

On 12/07/2017 at 9:27 PM, BlackRose said:

Yet I do have a personal relationship with God and that ultimately is the most important thing about being a Christian. 

100% in agreement with that statement above ! I do think the same.

On 12/07/2017 at 9:27 PM, BlackRose said:

I think it's not a complete red flag for me at least. What would be more of a red flag is if they did nothing to maintain a personal relationship with God

ABSOLUTELY !

On 12/07/2017 at 10:23 PM, PG1 said:

as I do not subscribe to one specific faith and do not feel right practicing something my heart isn't in. This doesn't make me less Christian, or less able to live a Christian life.

Hmm...I think this is very interesting...so you would probably fit in non denominational churches? But I have a question : is the Bible your guide?

Anyway, I perfectly understand you and I'm in the exact situation as yourself currently. Actually, my point of view regarding churches has evolved...because I grew up in a baptist church from 8 to 18. And I'm totally grateful to God for those persons who taught me the faith (the Pastor of the church and his wife). They were indeed truly christians and tried their best to live a holy life. They were an excellent example for me.

Then I had to move from where I grew up and seek another church...And that's how I experienced some weird things...thankfully, God has protected me, and my faith in Him is absolutely intact.

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@Geraldine You have no idea how motivating it is to hear that other people do this :D I also definitely related to some of Jonathan's points in the article. One issue that I have had is that people tend to focus on the positives on going to Church and hid the negatives which are now getting more and more common. It is important to have a community  (however big or small) of Christians around you who you can learn from and grow spiritually. 

4 hours ago, Geraldine said:

:lol::P I totally understand that ! Welcome to my world !:lol:

At the end of the day, what matters most is what God thinks about us, not people. Because we will answer to Him. 

What God thinks about us is super important and something I've had to come more to terms with as I'm getting older. I think another thing for me has been developing a personal relationship with God. When you're born in a Christian household, you almost take it for granted (well I did) and you forget the importance of searching and knowing more about him for yourself. It was only in my late teens when I started to develop a relationship with him personally. I'm not perfect but at least it's something but it is important since we all have to give account at the end of the day.

5 hours ago, Geraldine said:

So... I think that you and your family do the right thing, as long as the purpose is to honor God and follow the principles of the Bible.

Agreed, our aim in doing Church at home was solely to honor him and follow the principles of the bible. But also because my parents felt like the Church was also demanding too much from them (as some do) and they didn't want to be those statistics of Christian parents with children "going off the walls" because the parents spent 90% of their time at church and weren't there to influence their kids. 

We're all called to serve but sometimes I also feel like some Churches can take this out of balance and that also doesn't put Churches in a great light.

There are definitely some great ones out there but they are few and far between. 

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Hmm...I think this is very interesting...so you would probably fit in non denominational churches? But I have a question : is the Bible your guide?

@Geraldine Yes, I rely on the Bible and prayer. I don't read the Bible regularly, but it's my guide when I need to know something. When I don't understand something from it I look up other people's views and thoughts. From there I pray and ask God to lead me to the right interpretation.

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@BlackRose : Totally agree with everything that you said

@PG1 : Ok, thank you very much for sharing. I understand.. Regarding me, I read the Bible regularly and it's my daily guide for everything... I try my best to obey God's word with His help (but I fall short sometimes and I'm very grateful for His mercy and forgiveness).

18 minutes ago, PG1 said:

When I don't understand something from it I look up other people's views and thoughts. From there I pray and ask God to lead me to the right interpretation.

Same for me :)

 

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Not going to church in and of itself would not be a red flag for myself. Too many people form naive suppositions about others based on that persons actual or imagined church attendance- i.e. "that person couldn't have been the thief, they go to church at......<_<" Just as sitting in a car dealership doesn't make oneself an automobile, attending church doesn't make a person a believer (obedient or not). 

I think a person's character and lifestyle is far more important than their church going status. Unfortunately, there are a lot of churches out there but the overall quality doesn't seem very high. Many have flawed doctrine and are very weak on preaching. For instance, not many churches will actively promote waiting. They might mention it in their publications, but most are not actively preaching sermons on it. Ideally, Christians would be in good churches most Sundays, but these are not ideal times we are living in.

Now, if someone had a hostility towards going to church or a hostility towards church in general, that would be definitely be a red flag (or more like "U-Turn" sign ;) ) for me. But, I would rather have someone who actually lives a proper Christian lifestyle than someone who just has proper church attendance.

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Hmmm, care to elaborate there...? I don't see anything written :blink:

 

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On 10/18/2017 at 11:36 PM, Syzygy said:

Hmmm, care to elaborate there...? I don't see anything written :blink:

 

I just changed my mind in wanting to contribute. Since you asked:

A woman who can't tell you what she read from the Bible yesterday doesn't have faith. That's not an indication that she's unsaved (although it'd make me skeptical enough to avoid her), she's just dead in faith. Extending that thought, people who truly love the Lord seek out His presence. Church absence is definitely a red flag. As is not knowing or being able to explain what that church believes in terms of doctrine.

If a woman can't be fact-checked on what should be the pillars of a Christian's life, why would she be worth consideration for marriage? She's telling you upfront that what's most important to her isn't Christ. At best she's telling her suitor that she doesn't know what she values. Both of which put that woman in the not marriage material category.

The woman I intend to propose marriage to definitely did and continues to discuss faith/doctrine in 70/80% of conversation as it should define us as Christians.

People just gloss over these issues because in reality they don't care and want to be fulfilled by a relationship with man over their God (telling). "Hey you claim to be a Christian yet you're wearing pants. Where else do you deviate from God's word?" shouldn't be taboo for anyone who wants to marry a believer in Christ.

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17 hours ago, Amarillo said:

I just changed my mind in wanting to contribute. Since you asked:

Then why did you leave a trace instead of deleting or not posting anything to begin with? :huh:

17 hours ago, Amarillo said:

A woman who can't tell you what she read from the Bible yesterday doesn't have faith. That's not an indication that she's unsaved (although it'd make me skeptical enough to avoid her), she's just dead in faith. Extending that thought, people who truly love the Lord seek out His presence. Church absence is definitely a red flag. As is not knowing or being able to explain what that church believes in terms of doctrine.

If a woman can't be fact-checked on what should be the pillars of a Christian's life, why would she be worth consideration for marriage? She's telling you upfront that what's most important to her isn't Christ. At best she's telling her suitor that she doesn't know what she values. Both of which put that woman in the not marriage material category.

The woman I intend to propose marriage to definitely did and continues to discuss faith/doctrine in 70/80% of conversation as it should define us as Christians.

Not attending church does not mean you don't know the Bible, are dead in the faith, don't seek the Lord's presence or love the Lord, can't answer questions or explain doctrine, aren't cognizant of Christian or personal values, don't have Christ as your first priority or mention faith in conversation, nor does it signify a woman is not marriage material. The greatest evidence is already in this thread: three wonderful Christian women, whom any man would be lucky to marry, have already stated they don't currently attend church regularly for their own valid reasons. Not to mention most church attendees fail in the aforementioned ways anyway...

Also, I'd have different expectations of knowledge for someone who is new to the Christian faith and had no prior guidance. Their lack of knowledge is not their fault. It does not mean Christ isn't most important to them or that they don't know what they value, only they've had less time to learn. Don't assume everyone had the advantages you had growing up. “Whenever you feel like criticizing any one...just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had.”- F. Scott Fitzgerald

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5 hours ago, redgrapes said:

Then why did you leave a trace instead of deleting or not posting anything to begin with? :huh:

I didn't know I could delete posts or I would have. It had a message but I removed it because the feelings gestapo is ridiculously thick here and I didn't feel like dealing with people who can't respect the opinions of others when posts deviate from effeminate begging/whining from "men" and feminism.

Let me break it down for you since my generation seemingly needs to be told. What I say is my opinion, based on my life experiences, and what's best for my family and walk with God. At no point did I make ANY consideration to what YOU ( a stranger I'll never meet) find valuable or "Christian." Dividing things further, feigning a defense of the three women in the thread with a one-liner exhorting their virtues to a man who's already committal and from a completely different faith that does not embrace ungodly roles for women does absolutely nothing for them. At best it looks like an attempt to feel relevant when it's clear you just wanted to repost what I had written with "nuh-uh" in front of it. At worst it's placing yourself in a position of authority they did not grant to the point of actually claiming to not only know what they're feeling but also thinking they need to be spoken for. This elevation of oneself into positions of authority where they are not granted by God is a key component in the humanist movement that's naturally causing knee jerk reactions in what's quickly becoming a mob mentality society.

As far as the last swipe/twitter quote and yet another, incorrect ASSUMPTION, about someone you've never met based on different beliefs... Had God blessed me with a Godly family I probably would be unsaved right now. My blessings were in lessons of sorrow and I'm thankful to have experienced that PRIVILEGE and would denounce any person who thought they had the authority to question what God has put in my life. Thanks for playing, try quoting scripture and asking questions if you want an actual intelligent discussion for adults. :D

 

BTW I've already discussed homechurch with one of the "victims" of my reply using actual scripture and was supportive of them in that role.

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1 hour ago, Amarillo said:

I didn't know I could delete posts or I would have. It had a message but I removed it because the feelings gestapo is ridiculously thick here and I didn't feel like dealing with people who can't respect the opinions of others when posts deviate from effeminate begging/whining from "men" and feminism.

Let me break it down for you since my generation seemingly needs to be told. What I say is my opinion, based on my life experiences, and what's best for my family and walk with God. At no point did I make ANY consideration to what YOU ( a stranger I'll never meet) find valuable or "Christian."

I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it or appreciate the manner in which you write. I also respect the other posters and have not noticed any begging, whining, or "feminism" related content. What does church attendance have to do with feminism? And when you say you're going to break it down for me and your generation, it sounds like you're elevating yourself to an undeserved level of authority. Once again, you're insulting other posters but have veiled it. You want respect for your opinion but it's evident you do not respect the opinions of others. I shall say no more on that.

1 hour ago, Amarillo said:

Dividing things further, feigning a defense of the three women in the thread with a one-liner exhorting their virtues to a man who's already committal and from a completely different faith that does not embrace ungodly roles for women does absolutely nothing for them. At best it looks like an attempt to feel relevant when it's clear you just wanted to repost what I had written with "nuh-uh" in front of it. At worst it's placing yourself in a position of authority they did not grant to the point of actually claiming to not only know what they're feeling but also thinking they need to be spoken for. This elevation of oneself into positions of authority where they are not granted by God is a key component in the humanist movement that's naturally causing knee jerk reactions in what's quickly becoming a mob mentality society.

The reason my post gave a semblance of "nuh uh" is simply because I disagreed with you. It was a dissenting opinion. I don't think church absence is a red flag. I thought your post was quite irrelevant to the topic of this thread because many of the people I know who are most familiar with the Bible, who have the most Christ-centered conversations, and deeply live for and adhere to Christ are intriguingly not regular church attenders. Those are clearly not qualities that come from church attendance alone. The only plausible point I saw in your post was that not attending church is not seeking the presence of the Lord. Predictably, I partially disagree with this too.

Unfortunately the nature of what you said, though perhaps unintended, does reflect on other posters because you didn't state it as a personal preference but more than that. About mentioning others, I thought I was merely stating the obvious in a relevant way to your post rather than "feigning a defense" or speaking others' thoughts/feelings. I am very sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable. :( I also don't mean to inadvertently drag anyone else into this. :unsure:

You keep repeating on the forum that you're from a "completely different faith." What precisely makes your faith different?

1 hour ago, Amarillo said:

As far as the last swipe/twitter quote and yet another, incorrect ASSUMPTION, about someone you've never met based on different beliefs... Had God blessed me with a Godly family I probably would be unsaved right now. My blessings were in lessons of sorrow and I'm thankful to have experienced that PRIVILEGE and would denounce any person who thought they had the authority to question what God has put in my life. Thanks for playing, try quoting scripture and asking questions if you want an actual intelligent discussion for adults. :D

BTW I've already discussed homechurch with one of the "victims" of my reply using actual scripture and was supportive of them in that role.

I was merely referring to the length of time you have been a Christian and devoted to Bible study, not about family or experience. I'm aware of the scripture on this topic and it seems the key is meeting with fellow Christians to discuss God. If this is how you define "church" then perhaps we're in agreement. But I'm not looking for your spiritual or personal support, nor do I expect to receive it.

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6 hours ago, Amarillo said:

Let me break it down for you since my generation seemingly needs to be told. What I say is my opinion, based on my life experiences, and what's best for my family and walk with God. At no point did I make ANY consideration to what YOU ( a stranger I'll never meet) find valuable or "Christian." Dividing things further, feigning a defense of the three women in the thread with a one-liner exhorting their virtues to a man who's already committal and from a completely different faith that does not embrace ungodly roles for women does absolutely nothing for them. At best it looks like an attempt to feel relevant when it's clear you just wanted to repost what I had written with "nuh-uh" in front of it. At worst it's placing yourself in a position of authority they did not grant to the point of actually claiming to not only know what they're feeling but also thinking they need to be spoken for. This elevation of oneself into positions of authority where they are not granted by God is a key component in the humanist movement that's naturally causing knee jerk reactions in what's quickly becoming a mob mentality society.

6 hours ago, Amarillo said:

As far as the last swipe/twitter quote and yet another, incorrect ASSUMPTION, about someone you've never met based on different beliefs... Had God blessed me with a Godly family I probably would be unsaved right now. My blessings were in lessons of sorrow and I'm thankful to have experienced that PRIVILEGE and would denounce any person who thought they had the authority to question what God has put in my life. Thanks for playing, try quoting scripture and asking questions if you want an actual intelligent discussion for adults. :D

It's interesting you tell someone to quote scripture and ask questions when you have done neither this entire thread. As someone who frequently comes across as high and mighty, I would have expected you to enlighten us mere heathens with your vast knowledge of the Lord's will. But then I was reminded of a certain thread a while back regarding the proper role of opposite sex friendships in a Christian marriage. You provided zero scriptural evidence to support your position. All you kept saying was, "That won't fly in my marriage." Yet here you are again, on the issue of church attendance. You provide no scripture, nor do you even cite how the church has impacted your life specifically. All you did was base your judgmental view of others base on your own experiences, what's best for your family and your personal walk with God. So do not presume to talk down to others when you don't provide any biblical basis for anything you have said. It seems to me like you are the one who is elevating yourself into a position of authority not granted by God.

Frankly, I grow weary of you coming on here and constantly acting like a tough guy. Yet when push comes to shove, you can't back up anything you say except a holier-than-thou attitude. So let me be blunt: get off your sanctimonious high horse, have some humility and be respectful to your fellow members. Otherwise you will no longer be part of this forum.

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On 17/10/2017 at 7:49 AM, Syzygy said:

Not going to church in and of itself would not be a red flag for myself. Too many people form naive suppositions about others based on that persons actual or imagined church attendance- i.e. "that person couldn't have been the thief, they go to church at......<_<" Just as sitting in a car dealership doesn't make oneself an automobile, attending church doesn't make a person a believer (obedient or not). 

I think a person's character and lifestyle is far more important than their church going status. Unfortunately, there are a lot of churches out there but the overall quality doesn't seem very high. Many have flawed doctrine and are very weak on preaching. For instance, not many churches will actively promote waiting. They might mention it in their publications, but most are not actively preaching sermons on it. Ideally, Christians would be in good churches most Sundays, but these are not ideal times we are living in.

Now, if someone had a hostility towards going to church or a hostility towards church in general, that would be definitely be a red flag (or more like "U-Turn" sign ;) ) for me. But, I would rather have someone who actually lives a proper Christian lifestyle than someone who just has proper church attendance.

Thank you very much for your answer @Syzygy

I agree 100% with everything you said

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7 hours ago, Invincible said:

 So let me be blunt: get off your sanctimonious high horse, have some humility and be respectful to your fellow members. Otherwise you will no longer be part of this forum.

Already something I was working toward, please delete my account. :) Thanks!

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@Invincible Thank you, Vince! :lol:

21 minutes ago, Amarillo said:

Already something I was working toward, please delete my account. :) Thanks!

But now we'll never know the connection between church attendance and feminism. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I don't appreciate that he's leaving instead of responding politely, answering questions, and providing scripture to support his opinion. It just proves everything Vince just said about him is true. <_<

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11 hours ago, Amarillo said:

Already something I was working toward, please delete my account. :) Thanks!

Since you asked so nicely....

10 hours ago, redgrapes said:

Seriously though, I don't appreciate that he's leaving instead of responding politely, answering questions, and providing scripture to support his opinion. It just proves everything Vince just said about him is true. <_<

I hate that I'm always right. Sometimes I don't know why I was cursed with this talent :P 

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On 10/23/2017 at 8:34 AM, Guest said:

Already something I was working toward, please delete my account. :) Thanks!

On 10/23/2017 at 7:41 PM, Invincible said:

Since you asked so nicely....

Sometimes I wish we didn't delete users' accounts except in special circumstances, but I can't say I'm sad he's gone. He always annoyed me but I never felt like engaging with him. He'd probably just call me an effeminate (the alt-right-christian way of saying "faggot" I guess) libtard heathen or something.

 

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11 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Sometimes I wish we didn't delete users' accounts except in special circumstances, but I can't say I'm sad he's gone. He always annoyed me but I never felt like engaging with him. He'd probably just call me an effeminate (the alt-right-christian way of saying "faggot" I guess) libtard heathen or something.

 

I agree. The whole argument he started was very bizarre. He and I used to be pretty good friends on here, then he radically changed and started getting grouchy and extremely pushy with his beliefs so I backed off. I don't like negativity in the forums. My friends support my decision to wait but no one in my family does so this site is kind of a haven for me. I'm glad VInce told him off. 

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5 hours ago, Matthew said:

Sometimes I wish we didn't delete users' accounts except in special circumstances, but I can't say I'm sad he's gone. He always annoyed me but I never felt like engaging with him. He'd probably just call me an effeminate (the alt-right-christian way of saying "faggot" I guess) libtard heathen or something.

I don't know, I guess it's just in my nature to stand up to this sort of thing. This current case not withstanding. I have deleted other members' accounts upon request for various reasons. I guess I just felt the need to honor their wishes.

And I don't know how anyone could legitimately call you effeminate with your manly beard and all :P 

 

5 hours ago, JesSea said:

I agree. The whole argument he started was very bizarre. He and I used to be pretty good friends on here, then he radically changed and started getting grouchy and extremely pushy with his beliefs so I backed off. I don't like negativity in the forums. My friends support my decision to wait but no one in my family does so this site is kind of a haven for me. I'm glad VInce told him off. 

That's exactly why I did it. This forum should be a place where all members can feel safe and support each other. Most of us already have to deal with friends and family giving us crap for waiting as it is. The last thing we need is other members tearing others down.

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I have been having a time with this topic in my own life...why I don't go to church myself.  The simple answer is that I believe that I know more that the preachers know or are willing to accept.   Knowing more than a preacher knows is easy if we're talking about a certain Church of God Preacher. But knowing more is more than just simply what info is in the Bible.

I came across a book by Bart Ehrman in which he asserted that there were books in the Protestant Bible that were Forgeries and not from Paul. So that means that we should not accept certain books as authentically from Paul just like the Protestants don't accept certain books from the Roman Catholic Bible.

I am comfortable donating money to charities for the poor and not donating to a misguided church. I am also orienting my life to the whole word of GOD and not merely the 7 undisputed letters of Paul.

Just to take a break here and show how contrary to regular Christiandom I am, how do you think that I would be received were I to go into a church and say that there is no AntiChrist coming. Pretty excluded, huh. How about that 666 as the mark of the beast is made up...Not what you might regularly hear, huh?

Then I could get into the fact that 501c3 Churches curtail there sermons so that they do not preach politically so they can keep their tax free status.  Ever had a preacher tell you that he can't tell you who you should vote for? It's not because they shouldn't, but that they chose not to in order to keep their tax exempt status.

Ask yourselves, "How cruel is it for a minister of GOD not to tell you whom to vote for?" Pretty cruel isn't it.

I have plenty of reasons not to go to a 501c3 church!

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