BlackRose

Reasons for a virgin to date/marry a non-virgin

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So in quite a lot of the threads on this forum, I've noticed that there are many people who despite being a virgin themselves, would be very open to dating/marrying someone who isn't a virgin and is just WTM. 

For myself, I could never even think of dating someone who isn't a virgin. I personally see it as getting the shorter end of the stick and I would rather be alone. If I'm not going to get 100% in that department, to me it seems like a waste of time. I recognise that there are other things to consider when deciding to date (and therefore marry a person) like faith, integrity, faithfulness, ability to raise children, views on controversial topics etc but the way I see it is, if we can't get over the first hurdle then the others don't matter. This excludes faith though, they must be Christian first and foremost. 

So I am interested in trying to understand:

  1. Why is a person not being a virgin not a deal-breaker for you? 
  2. How do you/would you actively get over the fact that they have had other sexual partners and you have not i.e. the lack of exclusivity that will never be truly present in your relationship should you choose to marry them? 
  3. What is your deal-breaker since I assume it is something else? 

BTW for me, I define virgin in the following way:  Firstly this does not include rape victims or those who have been sexually assaulted because I believe that an important aspect in losing your virginity should be the fact that is consensual. Secondly if you can get an STD from the said act, you are not a virgin.  Thirdly, anything more than a peck/kiss for me puts you as virgin*. Just thought it would be best to add some definitions for what I classify as a virgin/virgin* since this is not the same for everyone and may change how you view certain aspects of this question. 

 

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Good question! I'd marry a non virgin although I'd prefer not to.

1. The reason why it's not a deal breaker is because for all I know it could be the best marrige of my life and he could make me the happiest I've ever been so I'd be willing to look past it. The fact that he'd even agree to wait would mean a lot to me.

2. To be honest with you, I would always be a little jealous/disappointed in the back of my mind and also feel like I'm being compared to his previous sexual partner(s). So it would be nice if he just acted like the other times never happened lol.

3. I guess deal breakers for me would be more personality wise like rudeness or laziness. Oh and outstanding personal hygiene is a must!

I definitely agree that anything more than kissing would classify as virgin* and especially that any act that could transmit STDs as non virgin. A lot of people seem to believe that you can do everything but and still be a virgin.

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While I wouldn't either, I can see why other people would consider them. I think the most obvious one is that by excluding non-virgins your pool of options dwindles substantially, but I'm sure we've both heard that a billion times already. Besides that... I guess their character, your chemistry and what you mean to them could make them shine over the others.

As for me... eh. It would always bother me how I made this effort and endured all the struggles and frustrations that come with it while my partner just didn't. But even if they decide to "wait on you", that idea is still kind of unpleasant. It would really make me question the motivations behind them suddenly being okay with that. Other people might be a bit more optimistic about it, but I'll always see it as fishy.

That discomfort is enough reason for me not bother trying it, it would just be a disservice to myself and whoever else is involved. I know I'm always gonna see it as me giving them 100% and them returning it with 70%, maybe 80% at best. Personally I don't really buy the idea that we could still have great chemistry/compatibility when our approach to life has already proven to be so starkly different.

Obviously there are examples of that dynamic working. I wouldn't want to discredit anybody's relationship/marriage. I just wouldn't want to chance it.

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@Marono That's a fair reason and tbh the one that my friends who are open to dating/marrying non-virgins have said as well. I think jealousy does play a massive role in this. Jealousy isn't wrong - it just shows that you care :)  However I tend to care too much and that's probably the reason I could never accept a guy who isn't a virgin. But if you can I think that's great tbh since it does increase the pool of people to choose from haha. Personality is super important. I would have shut down so quickly if they were rude or lazy, I just can't stand people like that haha. Hygiene should be a given, if people don't have good hygiene, that's a turnoff no matter how many of the other boxes you tick tbh :D

I agree so much with that and I think definitions are important too. A lot of people do think that you can get away with so much and then claim that you're still a "virgin". I have massive issues with that and honestly, if we disagree with the definitions of what counts and a virgin adn what doesn't, that's gonna be a deal-breaker too. 

@Adam Haha, yeah, I've heard that a lot from my close friends who were shocked that a guy being a virgin was on my list of deal-breakers. I do see it as fishy and in a way, I also see it as them being lazy. I've kept myself and you couldn't? Clearly you're not the one for me then. The percentage thing is another reason I could never try it. I would always feel a bit bitter and sad, they get 100% whereas I end up with leftovers :( Character and things like that don't matter since this would always be the biggest hurdle for me to cross - hence why I ask about it early on and while we're friends so that there is no time for feelings to develop because I'll have already made my decision. There are definitely examples where it's worked out but I could never do it myself. 

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On 7/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, BlackRose said:

Why is a person not being a virgin not a deal-breaker for you? 

To be honest, it's easier for me to say virginity was not a dealbreaker when I was younger compared to now. It still is ultimately not a dealbreaker for me now (even though some days I feel like it is), but I noticed the older I got, the more it would bother me if a girl I was with wasn't a virgin. It also doesn't help that my chances of finding a virgin gets smaller as I grow older. There are exceptions of course, but women are usually not able to separate the physical aspect of sex with the emotional part than men. I hate the idea that a part of her heart will always be with another guy or guys. I also hate the idea that somehow I wouldn't please her sexually as well as any of the previous guys. As someone who has issues with jealousy, it would really eat me up inside knowing she could never be exclusively mine. Secondly, I also have occasional feelings of entitlement when I think about how long I've waited and turned down offers for sex in the past that I felt I deserve a virgin. Like @Adam said, it wouldn't feel like a fair trade given that I've resisted my sexual urges all my life, remained STD free and endured so much loneliness. Yet despite that, she will get to have "all of me" while she could never give me the same in return. I know that love isn't about keeping score, but it is hard not to feel short changed when you've followed all the rules and did what was right.

I know this isn't the right way to think because the truth is, I don't deserve anything. I am not owed a relationship, let alone with a virgin, just for doing what its right. If I ever do end up with a good woman, virgin or not, it would only be because of the grace of God. I realize that I myself have my own brokenness that I would hope a girl would look past. While I do believe everyone has the right to decide what their dealbreakers are, I still choose to not to potentially miss out on someone great because of this issue.

 

On 7/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, BlackRose said:

How do you/would you actively get over the fact that they have had other sexual partners and you have not i.e. the lack of exclusivity that will never be truly present in your relationship should you choose to marry them? 

It would be a very tough process for me, no doubt about it. First and foremost, I would need to have lots of prayer with God to give me the peace about her sexual past. I would also need reassurance from her in both words and actions that she loves me and only me and that she wishes she would have waited for me. I don't want her to be live in shame or to keep dwelling on her past, but she would have to show remorse for her sexual past. I could not be with someone who didn't see anything wrong with premarital sex or tried to justify it in any way. It's not her past that is ultimately a dealbreaker, it's her attitude of her past that counts.

 

On 7/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, BlackRose said:

What is your deal-breaker since I assume it is something else? 

The biggest dealbreaker for me is if she is not a Christian. She also has to be waiting out of her own choice and not just because I asked her to.

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Since @Invincible mentioned it, I wanted to talk about the entitlement thing. Looking back on some of my posts, it might be easy to construe that I feel entitled. I never thought to clarify that I don't actually feel like I am owed the type of relationship I want. I know I have to become worthy of it, but when I do or even if I already am, does that then imply that I "deserve" that relationship? It's hard to say. On one hand I don't think that anybody is entitled to anything at the end of the day. I was never a fan of this type of attitude, so it's especially disturbing to think I may have displayed that line of thought before. But on the other hand, I feel that everybody who is honest and works hard should be rewarded. I would say that type of person does "deserve" to have their dreams realized. Of course, it doesn't always work out like that and that is unfortunate. Anyway, those two beliefs tend to contradict each other. I honestly don't know how to feel about it. I think I just assumed I was in the latter camp and carried out my posts under that belief. I'll just clarify now that I don't think I'm even remotely close to perfect, I've still got a long way to go. I'm not expecting anything right now.

The reason I'm committed to this dual virgin dynamic is not ultimately due to faith, although that is something that has an influence on it. I want it based on some of my own ideas I have regarding love and marriage. Faith and some other things have led me to forming those ideas. I also think that because of the way my life panned out, it's the path that I personally should be on. That does make me think that I would eventually find my way to a woman who is on the same wavelength, but I definitely understand that it doesn't always work out so favorably. I can't control how anybody else lives, not that I would want to anyway. I don't believe I'm entitled to it, despite how much I want it.

Now I know myself well enough to know that I'm never willing to compromise. Either I find this specific person or I'll be alone. As unfortunate as the latter situation would be, I know I'm stubborn enough to accept it. I get that I'm inviting that possible reality onto myself by forcing my own parameters, but I have them for my reasons and I'm not letting them go. Obviously I can't predict the future, so I have no idea what will actually happen. I'm hoping for the best, not only for me but for all of us.

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@Invincible I can understand the shift for virginity being less of a deal-breaker when you were younger compared to when you are older. As time goes on, a bit like fine wine, things become more precious and harder to give away. The same was for me and kissing. Before I would have been fine to kiss before my wedding day but as I've gotten older, I realised that my first kiss is very precious to me and I would want to save it for someone who could also do the same (although it's not nearly as much of a deal breaker as virginity is).

On 7/5/2017 at 3:02 AM, Invincible said:

I would also need reassurance from her in both words and actions that she loves me and only me and that she wishes she would have waited for me

From what I've seen and heard, women can be much more remorseful for their actions when it comes to premarital sex than men are. You're more likely to find a woman who regrets it than a man and that's something that's made it a deal-breaker for me. I guess also for me it doesn't actually matter if they regret it or not because the deed has been done and it's not something they could ever take back. A bit like murder, a person can regret it but they can never bring that person back from the dead since what they have done is a permanent decision and with that, there are consequences that will affect other people. That being said, I'm certainly not perfect and I've also made decisions that will affect other people but not to that extent. I think the other issue with someone being a non-virgin is that you have to be willing to accept the baggage from previous relationships that they will bring into your life. Furthermore certain experiences in my life have affected how I relate to other people. I would need to find a guy who could deal with the fact that I start off from distrusting others initially and that I am very weary in letting people into my inner circle.

I agree with jealousy - depending on how you deal with it, that will play a factor in whether a person can date/marry a non-virgin or not. There definitely would need to be a lot of prayer involved though - truly accepting a persons sexual history wouldn't really work without it.

On 7/5/2017 at 3:02 AM, Invincible said:

While I do believe everyone has the right to decide what their dealbreakers are, I still choose to not to potentially miss out on someone great because of this issue.

Honestly, I wish I could look past virginity as a deal breaker for myself and I commend people that eventually can since it does reduce the dating pool quite drastically. However as everyone has mentioned, giving 100% and receiving significantly less is rather discouraging and honestly for me waiting not really worth it if your virginity is just going to be given to someone who at the end of the day doesn't value sex in the same way as you. That's why I'm like @Adam in the sense that I am prepared to not ever be married. It's not that I'm owed it in anyway but more to do with the fact that I cannot love someone in the way that they deserve to be loved if they are not a virgin. I would almost resent them for it and that is not healthy for either of us. I'm the kind of person who has no qualms in divorcing my husband if they cheated on me, whether or not I have children. I view sex as one of the most intimate things to do with another person and that involves a high level of trust (something that I don't do easily). By someone not being a virgin, I have no ability to ever trust them on such a level so that also plays a factor into it for me. 

However before even getting to whether they are a virgin or not - they need to be a Christian or there is no possibility of us having a relationship, no matter how "perfect" they may seem - that factor is too big a box not to tick. 

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On 7/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, BlackRose said:

So I am interested in trying to understand:

  1. Why is a person not being a virgin not a deal-breaker for you? 
  2. How do you/would you actively get over the fact that they have had other sexual partners and you have not i.e. the lack of exclusivity that will never be truly present in your relationship should you choose to marry them? 
  3. What is your deal-breaker since I assume it is something else? 

OK, let me start by saying that more than anything else, it's important to be true to yourself. 'To thine own self be true' Polonius said in Hamlet and my mother has always encouraged us.

Hmmm...well, I'll start off by saying that I was raped as a child and, of course, that doesn't count, but I have kissed and cuddled before...so, I'm not sure how you're going to feel about my answers because in your eyes I can only claim virgin* (whatever that means, which is fine I'm not going to harshly judge your views because you have a right to them, as I do mine :) ). That being said, here are my answers...

1. I didn't grow up really knowing anyone who waited, or planned on waiting. It wasn't until later in life that I found out I had 1 or 2 friends who made this decision. So, for me, I've always just believed that sex as part of a relationship is just normal, and ok so I'm different. My mom always encouraged me to follow my own path, but she also constantly reiterated to me that if I ever did get carried away to 'not beat myself up over it'. She was insistent that I was not to hate myself. With all of that, for me deciding to wait was not for anyone else, it was for me. I'm not doing this for any possible future spouse. The idea that he may have had sex previously, unlike a lot of virgins, doesn't bother me. Who he is NOW (whenever we get together, that is) is the person that matters to me. His past experiences are just that, past. Every person that I have been involved with has had a prolific past...the one guy it bothered me with was because he seemed so proud of it, and we weren't exclusive (we never became exclusive), the other guy I was exclusive with and we were serious but he owned his past without being proud of it and he was honest with me about anything I wanted to know. Also, I find that, guys with a past are very accepting, and I love people that are accepting. In addition to all of that, I believe that we can take what we want to from experiences, and use them to become the person who we want to be. So, whether or not they are a virgin or not, if they have become a wonderful man and taken only the good from any experience they've had (be it sexual or otherwise) that's a man I will find beauty in. The last thing I'd like to add here is just this...Most people do not look favorably on someone who is willing to wait because they are interested in YOU, but has not made that decision for themselves. THIS IS OK, I am just odd because I feel like that speaks louder to how they feel about a future with me than it does about their decisions from the past. Ok, so I just typed a lot out here, and I feel like I could say a ton more...but it doesn't feel necessary. In fact, I feel as though most of this may be superfluous.

2. Well, 'getting over it' isn't something I'd have to do, because I already have. In all honesty, knowing that it's not only possible but likely, I feel like if you even THINK you could accept them, it's a good idea to try before it comes to past. Nobody wants to spend the beginning stages of what could be a potentially beautiful love agonizing over what someone has done in the past. The beginning should be the best, most exciting part. After that you get into the depth of the matter, and when it gets deep is when you find out if the two of you can team up for a lifetime. So, if their sexual past is not something you can accept? That is OK! By all means, be who you are and look for what YOU need in someone. If, indeed, you find that you MAY be able to accept it and you don't want it to be a deal breaker? Try to accept it as a possibility before it ever happens. If you can do that, accept who you are and what you need and figure out where to go from there, then you'll be much better off.

3. My deal breakers? Hmmm...I find them changing, as I age. Which, as far as deal breakers, or attraction, is concerned, I would just encourage that people accept themselves, even if those lists change from time to time. Time and nature have a funny way of changing us, sometimes. That being said, my deal breakers are quite few, I think. We have to be on the same wavelength spiritually. I mean, if he practices a specific Christian faith, that's ok, as long as he understand and accepts that I am just Christian and do not believe that any one religion is ultimately correct. I'd still attend church with him, at least most of the time, if he desires that. Second, he must be a fair and open minded leader. Rather old fashioned in the home and household roles. Open minded towards the outside world, even if conservative personally, respecting people even if he doesn't agree. He doesn't put people down, even jokingly, just because he doesn't agree. It really bothers me when I see comments on stuff where someone is calling a group of people 'libtards' or 'demawhatchamacolits'. I'm know it sounds like a weird combo, I know, but this is how I am so I know it's possible.

Again, the most important thing to do is to be who YOU ARE. Being true to yourself, regardless of how others feel, is the best gift one can give to oneself.

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On 7/5/2017 at 2:44 PM, Adam said:

Since @Invincible mentioned it, I wanted to talk about the entitlement thing. Looking back on some of my posts, it might be easy to construe that I feel entitled. I never thought to clarify that I don't actually feel like I am owed the type of relationship I want. I know I have to become worthy of it, but when I do or even if I already am, does that then imply that I "deserve" that relationship? It's hard to say. On one hand I don't think that anybody is entitled to anything at the end of the day. I was never a fan of this type of attitude, so it's especially disturbing to think I may have displayed that line of thought before. But on the other hand, I feel that everybody who is honest and works hard should be rewarded. I would say that type of person does "deserve" to have their dreams realized. Of course, it doesn't always work out like that and that is unfortunate. Anyway, those two beliefs tend to contradict each other. I honestly don't know how to feel about it. I think I just assumed I was in the latter camp and carried out my posts under that belief. I'll just clarify now that I don't think I'm even remotely close to perfect, I've still got a long way to go. I'm not expecting anything right now.

I think the key difference is that "worthy" like what you were saying is a better way to think about it than "entitled." I think it's better to say we who have fought hard to remain virgins gives us a legitimate reason to make virginity a dealbreaker rather than actually feel like we are owed one as if it's a guarantee. Whereas a non-virgin would not have legitimate grounds to do the same since they themselves aren't one. That's not to say they cannot hope for a virgin, but they can't require a virgin without being a hypocrite. I just think it comes down to whatever we expect in a potential partner, we must expect the same of ourselves as well.

 

15 hours ago, BlackRose said:

@Invincible I can understand the shift for virginity being less of a deal-breaker when you were younger compared to when you are older. As time goes on, a bit like fine wine, things become more precious and harder to give away. The same was for me and kissing. Before I would have been fine to kiss before my wedding day but as I've gotten older, I realised that my first kiss is very precious to me and I would want to save it for someone who could also do the same (although it's not nearly as much of a deal breaker as virginity is).

Yes, that's a good point. These things we value are kind of like fine wine, especially since things like virginity become more rare the older we get. But then the double edge sword of that is because it's harder to find, the less chance of finding one who meets our requirements. It's kind of a catch 22. I totally know what you mean about the kissing thing. I think I've come to the point where I am seriously wanting to save my first kiss for marriage. I don't think there is anything wrong with kissing before marriage. But I figure if I saved myself this long, I might as well save my first kiss too. I just think it would make it a lot more special waiting on that too.

 

15 hours ago, BlackRose said:

From what I've seen and heard, women can be much more remorseful for their actions when it comes to premarital sex than men are. You're more likely to find a woman who regrets it than a man and that's something that's made it a deal-breaker for me. I guess also for me it doesn't actually matter if they regret it or not because the deed has been done and it's not something they could ever take back. A bit like murder, a person can regret it but they can never bring that person back from the dead since what they have done is a permanent decision and with that, there are consequences that will affect other people. That being said, I'm certainly not perfect and I've also made decisions that will affect other people but not to that extent. I think the other issue with someone being a non-virgin is that you have to be willing to accept the baggage from previous relationships that they will bring into your life. Furthermore certain experiences in my life have affected how I relate to other people. I would need to find a guy who could deal with the fact that I start off from distrusting others initially and that I am very weary in letting people into my inner circle.

I agree with jealousy - depending on how you deal with it, that will play a factor in whether a person can date/marry a non-virgin or not. There definitely would need to be a lot of prayer involved though - truly accepting a persons sexual history wouldn't really work without it.

Yeah that sounds about right, I would definitely agree women would more likely regret premarital sex. I think that may be because many girls were pressured to have sex from their past boyfriends when they really didn't want to. Yet they did so because they believed that is what she had to do to get him to stay. Which is wrong of course. But even so, this still brings up another issue. There have been several studies done that concludes a strong correlation between the number of premarital sex partners a girl has to her chances of a successful marriage. Basically, they state if a girl has even 1 previous sex partner, it would reduce her chances of a successful marriage by roughly 30% by average. Whereas for a man, it would take on average around 19 sex partners to have the same percentage drop. It goes down from there with each subsequent partner. This I think has to do with the fact that women usually aren't able to separate sex from emotions like most men can. Because of the high levels of oxytocin, or the "bonding" hormone that women release during sex, she creates an intense, long-lasting bond with that man. So it's not hard to imagine that bond with another man would be serious baggage in a marriage. Of course both men and women should strive for purity, but we can't pretend the consequences are the same for both. This just happens to be one area that affects girls in a much more dire way. That is quite troubling to me and I hate the idea of walking into a marriage where my chances of a successful marriage are statistically lower due to her sexual past. Sometimes I even I wonder how I am able to say virginity is not a dealbreaker for me :( 

I also agree with you about the permanent nature of actions. I don't buy into the idea of "born-again virgins." There is no such thing and I just think people think of themselves as such as a means of make oneself feel better. I know that might offend some people, but that is the truth. I don't say that to be all high and mighty because I have made terrible mistakes, lots of them. Actions have consequences and you cannot undo something once it's done. I certainly do not downplay my past mistakes because I know full well I am fully responsible for them and all I can do is learn from them.

 

15 hours ago, BlackRose said:

Honestly, I wish I could look past virginity as a deal breaker for myself and I commend people that eventually can since it does reduce the dating pool quite drastically. However as everyone has mentioned, giving 100% and receiving significantly less is rather discouraging and honestly for me waiting not really worth it if your virginity is just going to be given to someone who at the end of the day doesn't value sex in the same way as you. That's why I'm like @Adam in the sense that I am prepared to not ever be married. It's not that I'm owed it in anyway but more to do with the fact that I cannot love someone in the way that they deserve to be loved if they are not a virgin. I would almost resent them for it and that is not healthy for either of us. I'm the kind of person who has no qualms in divorcing my husband if they cheated on me, whether or not I have children. I view sex as one of the most intimate things to do with another person and that involves a high level of trust (something that I don't do easily). By someone not being a virgin, I have no ability to ever trust them on such a level so that also plays a factor into it for me. 

However before even getting to whether they are a virgin or not - they need to be a Christian or there is no possibility of us having a relationship, no matter how "perfect" they may seem - that factor is too big a box not to tick. 

I think it shows you have a much higher sense of introspection than you may give yourself credit for. I think it's amazing that you can admit that your requirement for a virgin is not just for your own benefit but for the guy as well. You know yourself well enough to know you will unfairly resent him if you were with a non-virgin and I commend you for realizing that. That on it's own is selflessness in it's own way.

I also think it is good you at least tried to work towards looking past someone's sexual baggage and it's okay if you just can't bring yourself to. You were honest with yourself and you understood the lower chances of finding a partner and accepted it. That's all that matters.

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All of you have said some really profound things. I admire your ability to overlook their histories. Though if I'm being honest, I can't say that I would really want to have that ability. I never said that I was perfect. I don't have the most morally clean slate either. I have my own dispositions too; I tend to keep people at a distance, I'm ambivalent about putting my trust in others, I'm capable of jealousy, I never forget, so on and so forth. These characteristics, some life experiences and my own thoughts have led me to place this level of emphasis on virginity. Compounding this is how I see keeping my own virginity as a positive that would ideally be recognized and reciprocated. Whether or not that has any actual merit is subjective, I suppose. Just understand that I would never ask for a virgin if I wasn't a virgin myself.

I see those who are waiting until marriage as having a very attractive mindset. That by itself already establishes a lot of common ground, and it wouldn't be unlikely for us to find that we share even more in common, while also identifying with each other across a variety of things. Wishful thinking, I know, but it's easier to be optimistic about that situation as opposed to trying to see if it could work with non-virgin, when you already know right off the bat that you have conflicting ideas about sex, that you are uncomfortable with their past, and that you feel like your conviction may have been for naught. That last one is going to raise questions like, can a non-virgin truly value, recognize and appreciate your virginity when they haven't held their own to the same standard? Can they do so as much as a voluntarily waiting virgin can? Will a non-virgin not judge you for being a virgin? You can probably come up with more. None of this is to suggest that a non-virgin is incapable of loving and understanding you on truly intimate level, it's just that I personally would always be skeptical about it. There is a lot of uncertainty that comes with that type of relationship that some of you are better fit to deal with than I am. More power to you, but for me, it will be for the best if I just stick with it how I see fit. It would honestly be for the non-virgin's best interest not to take on somebody like me.

I don't see myself as being able express love as fiercely as I would in a relationship where we are each other's first and only. I pretty much see it the way @BlackRose sees it. The imbalance between virgin and non-virgin would bother me too much. It just won't be healthy for either of us. Adultery is also a concerning issue. Having seen many people in my life having to deal with it, I can easily say that it is absolutely grounds for divorce. The fact that I've seen one person get caught, beg for forgiveness, only to eventually do it again really makes me think that past tends to have more impact on future decisions than people would like to believe. Having seen it so often is one of the things that influenced my desire to wait. I feel like I need to prove that I'm in control of myself and that I'm faithful to her even though we literally do not even know each other. I guess that's kind of silly, but hey, it's motivating. :superwaiter:

Just for clarification, I don't think that virginity inherently makes people better or worse. I never mean to judge non-virgins or to discredit them and their relationships. I also don't think that just being a virgin automatically makes you the perfect partner, of course there is far more to it than that. All I'm saying is that I have my own preferences and dealbreakers that account for the type of person that I am and for what type of person I would most likely have a connection with. I don't think that's anything to feel guilty about. Shoot, there are even people who list being a virgin as a dealbreaker. If they can do that, then I don't see anything wrong with listing not being a virgin as a dealbreaker. :P

Sex is just such a powerful thing. For as much happiness as it can bring, it can cause an equal amount of unhappiness. I think that waiters have the best approach to it, so that's where I want to be.

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3 hours ago, Adam said:

All of you have said some really profound things. I admire your ability to overlook their histories. Though if I'm being honest, I can't say that I would really want to have that ability. I never said that I was perfect. I don't have the most morally clean slate either. I have my own dispositions too; I tend to keep people at a distance, I'm ambivalent about putting my trust in others, I'm capable of jealousy, I never forget, so on and so forth. These characteristics, some life experiences and my own thoughts have led me to place this level of emphasis on virginity. Compounding this is how I see keeping my own virginity as a positive that would ideally be recognized and reciprocated. Whether or not that has any actual merit is subjective, I suppose. Just understand that I would never ask for a virgin if I wasn't a virgin myself.

I see those who are waiting until marriage as having a very attractive mindset. That by itself already establishes a lot of common ground, and it wouldn't be unlikely for us to find that we share even more in common, while also identifying with each other across a variety of things. Wishful thinking, I know, but it's easier to be optimistic about that situation as opposed to trying to see if it could work with non-virgin, when you already know right off the bat that you have conflicting ideas about sex, that you are uncomfortable with their past, and that you feel like your conviction may have been for naught. That last one is going to raise questions like, can a non-virgin truly value, recognize and appreciate your virginity when they haven't held their own to the same standard? Can they do so as much as a voluntarily waiting virgin can? Will a non-virgin not judge you for being a virgin? You can probably come up with more. None of this is to suggest that a non-virgin is incapable of loving and understanding you on truly intimate level, it's just that I personally would always be skeptical about it. There is a lot of uncertainty that comes with that type of relationship that some of you are better fit to deal with than I am. More power to you, but for me, it will be for the best if I just stick with it how I see fit. It would honestly be for the non-virgin's best interest not to take on somebody like me.

I don't see myself as being able express love as fiercely as I would in a relationship where we are each other's first and only. I pretty much see it the way @BlackRose sees it. The imbalance between virgin and non-virgin would bother me too much. It just won't be healthy for either of us. Adultery is also a concerning issue. Having seen many people in my life having to deal with it, I can easily say that it is absolutely grounds for divorce. The fact that I've seen one person get caught, beg for forgiveness, only to eventually do it again really makes me think that past tends to have more impact on future decisions than people would like to believe. Having seen it so often is one of the things that influenced my desire to wait. I feel like I need to prove that I'm in control of myself and that I'm faithful to her even though we literally do not even know each other. I guess that's kind of silly, but hey, it's motivating. :superwaiter:

Just for clarification, I don't think that virginity inherently makes people better or worse. I never mean to judge non-virgins or to discredit them and their relationships. I also don't think that just being a virgin automatically makes you the perfect partner, of course there is far more to it than that. All I'm saying is that I have my own preferences and dealbreakers that account for the type of person that I am and for what type of person I would most likely have a connection with. I don't think that's anything to feel guilty about. Shoot, there are even people who list being a virgin as a dealbreaker. If they can do that, then I don't see anything wrong with listing not being a virgin as a dealbreaker. :P

Sex is just such a powerful thing. For as much happiness as it can bring, it can cause an equal amount of unhappiness. I think that waiters have the best approach to it, so that's where I want to be.

Again, you need to do what is best for YOU. Ultimately, if you're happy with yourself, your life, and your decisions, if you ever meet someone and fall in love that's the most important thing because in order to make someone else happy you must first be happy inside. Honestly, I'm getting a bit older and have gotten into a mindset of finding that I'm content alone and happy in who I am. If I meet someone (and it's not even like I'm looking right now, but I'm not turning a blind eye either, to be honest), that's awesome, but if not...well, I believe that God has blessed me in so many ways, even when life gets rough, that I know I can trust Him to guide me. What I'm getting at is that you sound like you know yourself, and you are happy with your decisions. That, my friend, is wonderful. Being true to you. It's the best gift you can give yourself.

The nice thing about some of these discussions is that you get a variety of views which, even if minds are not changed (not a good thing, nor a bad thing), really makes you think. I'll admit, usually I've thought things through and don't change my mind...however, every now and again, someone says something and I'm like 'Wow, I didn't think of it from that angle'. The point is that as long as you're thinking your decisions through (as it sounds like you are) then that's awesome.

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37 minutes ago, PG1 said:

Again, you need to do what is best for YOU. Ultimately, if you're happy with yourself, your life, and your decisions, if you ever meet someone and fall in love that's the most important thing because in order to make someone else happy you must first be happy inside. Honestly, I'm getting a bit older and have gotten into a mindset of finding that I'm content alone and happy in who I am. If I meet someone (and it's not even like I'm looking right now, but I'm not turning a blind eye either, to be honest), that's awesome, but if not...well, I believe that God has blessed me in so many ways, even when life gets rough, that I know I can trust Him to guide me. What I'm getting at is that you sound like you know yourself, and you are happy with your decisions. That, my friend, is wonderful. Being true to you. It's the best gift you can give yourself.

@PG1 Thank you. I totally agree. I would never say that I regret feeling the way I do, but sometimes I do question it. But I figure it's that way for a reason. I do feel pretty certain about what it will take for me to be able to give and receive love. I also believe that nobody should have to change who or what they are for anybody. People who fall in love with you should do so because you are you. It makes being happy with yourself very important; it's something that I'm working hard on and also why I'm not exactly looking for a relationship at the moment. I just wouldn't want to put that on anybody else. But yes, I do know myself, I know what I want and I am content to stand by my beliefs. Every day is spent pushing myself closer to eventually realizing that inner happiness. Once I reach that point, I know I'll be ready.

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@PG1, @Invincible , @Adam Thank you so much for your contributions so far. I'll reply each post in turn so just to warn that this will be a very long post :) 

@PG1 First of all thank you so much for sharing that. I'm sorry that that's happened to you - no-one deserves that, ever. But I'm glad to hear that your mother has been so supportive of you and your decisions which not everyone has so that must have helped a lot :) 

Secondly to expand on the whole virgin* thing - it's more of the in between stage of not being a virgin and being a virgin. There are activities that I consider intimate to the point where I wouldn't see that person as a complete virgin but they haven't lost their virginity so I can't say that they aren't a virgin either. It's a term that enables me to categorise people. So if a person has just kissed, I would still consider them a virgin tbh. Cuddling however, I actually have no idea what that constitutes (my inexperience is really showing here :unsure:) but if that's just a longer version of a hug (and as long as there are clothes on) I'd have no issues with that and consider them a virgin still too. It's more for activities like making out to the point where you're fondling each other, taking clothes off etc. Those people can still claim that they are virgins if they haven't done anymore than that - this is when I would use virgin*. I hope that makes more sense - it's not to offend anyone at all :). But as you've said, we're all entitled to our definitions and opinions which is totally okay.  

On 7/6/2017 at 7:51 PM, PG1 said:

Every person that I have been involved with has had a prolific past...the one guy it bothered me with was because he seemed so proud of it, and we weren't exclusive (we never became exclusive), the other guy I was exclusive with and we were serious but he owned his past without being proud of it and he was honest with me about anything I wanted to know. Also, I find that, guys with a past are very accepting, and I love people that are accepting. In addition to all of that, I believe that we can take what we want to from experiences, and use them to become the person who we want to be. So, whether or not they are a virgin or not, if they have become a wonderful man and taken only the good from any experience they've had (be it sexual or otherwise) that's a man I will find beauty in.

I agree with the fact that the way a person approaches and discusses their past is just as important as what they have done. I also agree with the fact that guys with a past tend to be more accepting. However, I think the reverse is also the same in my case as well - since I don't have a sexual past, I'm less accepting and that makes dating a non-virgin impossible. I'm more accepting in other areas, especially ones where I have had issues. I'm currently friends with a guy who I met online (on a dating site) and he does have a sexual past and one thing that I have noticed is that he is very accepting. However his sexual past is not the only reason why I wouldn't date him - the more important reason is due to the fact that his break-up from his ex affected him really negatively and that is baggage that I'm not willing to handle. Furthermore distance is also an issue since he lives in the US and I in the UK so that doesn't help at all. I think also people tend to take more negative experiences from previous relationships rather than positive one - that's mainly been the case for the situations I've seen around me so I am weary of thinking that someone could take only positive experiences onboard. However if it is possible then that completely makes sense. 

On 7/6/2017 at 7:51 PM, PG1 said:

Most people do not look favorably on someone who is willing to wait because they are interested in YOU, but has not made that decision for themselves

I think the reason why people (myself included) find issue with that is because they essentially have their cake and eat it. They've fooled around and although they respect your decision enough to wait for you, their attitude seems wrong since if they were in another relationship where the other person wanted to make it sexual, they would also be willing to have sex with them. I think also that because it tends to be the narrative in movies  I also personally have a real issue with that decision - the loose playboy guy wins over the "good virgin Christian" girl and is willing to wait until marriage to have sex with her. It rubs me up the wrong way and suggests even more that he doesn't think long-term, just for the here and now. Also I feel that more often than not, playboy type guys tend to look for "virgin" wives which also bothers me.But once again, if someone is willing to accept that, that's totally their decision and I have no reason to undermine it at all :)  And I don't feel that your comments have been superfluous at all, in fact they're very insightful and provide a unique perspective. 

On 7/6/2017 at 7:51 PM, PG1 said:

Well, 'getting over it' isn't something I'd have to do, because I already have. In all honesty, knowing that it's not only possible but likely, I feel like if you even THINK you could accept them, it's a good idea to try before it comes to past. Nobody wants to spend the beginning stages of what could be a potentially beautiful love agonizing over what someone has done in the past. The beginning should be the best, most exciting part. After that you get into the depth of the matter, and when it gets deep is when you find out if the two of you can team up for a lifetime. So, if their sexual past is not something you can accept? That is OK! By all means, be who you are and look for what YOU need in someone. If, indeed, you find that you MAY be able to accept it and you don't want it to be a deal breaker? Try to accept it as a possibility before it ever happens. If you can do that, accept who you are and what you need and figure out where to go from there, then you'll be much better off.

The fact that someone had actually gotten over it previously never really crossed my mind so thanks for adding that.  However that is actually where I start off from - agonizing about what they have done in the past. I'm also more cynical to romantic love than most so that really doesn't help the situation at all. But the way I see it is that I could never consider dating someone who I am not friends with first. So when I become friends with that person and if things start to head further, I would then ask them what their stance is on sex before marriage and is it something that they have struggled with. If it is, I shut down completely to the potential of any possible relationship happening between us and let them know that is the case. More because, I don't want to want to waste their time. I think for me personally, it's more damaging to find out that they aren't a virgin later on and then have to deal with the hurt and pain that comes with it because by that point, I would have feelings for them. However this is all speculative since I haven't ever been in a relationship but I have shut down potential ones based on the fact that they aren't a virgin. The older you get and haven't been in a relationship, the more risky it is going into one. A vicious cycle where I'd probably end up fearing going into a relationship due to the hurt that follows if it doesn't work but if you're not willing to be hurt then you can't get into a relationship. So at this point I'm only being true to myself by having non-virginity as a deal breaker. 

It definitely makes sense for deal breakers to change as you age and I expect some of mine to change as well. All of your deal breakers seem very fair tbh. Respecting others is a big one tbh. If they can't respect others, I wouldn't be able to respect him and that's a big thing in order to have a successful marriage.

@Invincible I totally agree with the fact that a non-virgin can't make virginity a deal breaker without being a hypocrite. There are certain things that I am willing to accept in comparison to most women like a person who has watched/struggled with porn/hentai because I have struggled with that (hentai in particular because I watch a lot of anime) myself for on an off for a couple of years until I decided to quit. It makes no sense and if very hypocritical to make that a deal breaker if you have struggled with that very same issue yourself. 

18 hours ago, Invincible said:

Yes, that's a good point. These things we value are kind of like fine wine, especially since things like virginity become more rare the older we get. But then the double edge sword of that is because it's harder to find, the less chance of finding one who meets our requirements. It's kind of a catch 22. I totally know what you mean about the kissing thing. I think I've come to the point where I am seriously wanting to save my first kiss for marriage. I don't think there is anything wrong with kissing before marriage. But I figure if I saved myself this long, I might as well save my first kiss too. I just think it would make it a lot more special waiting on that too.

It is a catch 22 sadly but I guess as long as you're willing to risk the chance that you may not find anyone - it makes it okay to have such a requirement. I even remember on of my friends who said that she's willing to date a non-virgin but she wanted to save her first kiss for marriage. At the time I thought saving your first kiss wouldn't be wise but now I definitely see the appeal in doing so and it does make it more special :D  

18 hours ago, Invincible said:

Yeah that sounds about right, I would definitely agree women would more likely regret premarital sex. I think that may be because many girls were pressured to have sex from their past boyfriends when they really didn't want to. Yet they did so because they believed that is what she had to do to get him to stay. Which is wrong of course. But even so, this still brings up another issue. There have been several studies done that concludes a strong correlation between the number of premarital sex partners a girl has to her chances of a successful marriage. Basically, they state if a girl has even 1 previous sex partner, it would reduce her chances of a successful marriage by roughly 30% by average. Whereas for a man, it would take on average around 19 sex partners to have the same percentage drop. It goes down from there with each subsequent partner. This I think has to do with the fact that women usually aren't able to separate sex from emotions like most men can. Because of the high levels of oxytocin, or the "bonding" hormone that women release during sex, she creates an intense, long-lasting bond with that man. So it's not hard to imagine that bond with another man would be serious baggage in a marriage. Of course both men and women should strive for purity, but we can't pretend the consequences are the same for both. This just happens to be one area that affects girls in a much more dire way. That is quite troubling to me and I hate the idea of walking into a marriage where my chances of a successful marriage are statistically lower due to her sexual past. Sometimes I even I wonder how I am able to say virginity is not a dealbreaker for me :( 

I know a couple of people who were pressured into having sex with their boyfriends and the situations thereafter have been awful. It's really sad that some men are pressuring women. We need to reteach men not to do this but also let women know that if they truly respected you, you wouldn't have to have sex with them to stay. I would absolutely love to see this study though! It is true that men and women see sex differently, It's more of a physical thing for men but much more emotional for women. The numbers are certainly interesting though. I think that's where my issue lies for me as a woman. I know that the moment I have sex with my husband I'll be bonded to them in a way physically, emotionally and spiritually since sex is all of those things and that's something that would enable me to be committed to him. So unless that woman initially doesn't value sex or her first time which is unlikely, it will affect her in some way shape or form. In the same way, the fact that it would only have a negative affect on a marriage if a guy sleeps with 19+ people is really sad; it just shows that to guys like that sex is cheap and so giving away my virginity to someone who wouldn't value it at all makes we want to hold onto it all the more :( . However it is just a study and as they say, there are lies and then there's statistics ;)  There definitely is some truth in the results that the study has produced but more in the sense that in order to have a successful marriage, if one person is a virgin and the other isn't, you will have to work much harder at your marriage compared to if both people are virgins or both are not virgins. Mainly because there is a sexual imbalance that may cause resentment, comparisons etc - since sex is one of the 3 main reasons for marriages breaking down (the others being money and communication), by going into a marriage where the two people have had such differtent experiences, it's less likely but not impossible to make it work.

My dad always tells us to "work smarter, not harder" - that's how I see marrying a virgin to marrying a non-virgin. It can and will still work and there are plenty of relationships where it does. However, you may have to work harder to get the same result. The fact that you are open to dating a non-virgin means that it isn't a deal breaker - unlike myself where I need to find out whether they are a virgin or not in order to consider dating them or not. It's a process and if it is a deal breaker one day and not the next, that's fine since we're changing all the time but once you meet someone who you are seriously considering getting into a relationship with, I think it's only then you'll know whether or not if it's a deal breaker. 

19 hours ago, Invincible said:

I also agree with you about the permanent nature of actions. I don't buy into the idea of "born-again virgins." There is no such thing and I just think people think of themselves as such as a means of make oneself feel better. I know that might offend some people, but that is the truth. I don't say that to be all high and mighty because I have made terrible mistakes, lots of them. Actions have consequences and you cannot undo something once it's done. I certainly do not downplay my past mistakes because I know full well I am fully responsible for them and all I can do is learn from them.

I also have a major issue with the term "born-again virgins" and I agree it is just a term to make themselves feel better. It's too permanent an action to try and cover it up with the fact that they are "born-again" just seems a bit silly tbh. Sex is physical first and foremost, spiritual and emotional second whereas the term "born-again Christian" relates to spirit first, then it's emotional and this transpires into physical behaviour

19 hours ago, Invincible said:

I think it shows you have a much higher sense of introspection than you may give yourself credit for. I think it's amazing that you can admit that your requirement for a virgin is not just for your own benefit but for the guy as well. You know yourself well enough to know you will unfairly resent him if you were with a non-virgin and I commend you for realizing that. That on it's own is selflessness in it's own way.

I also think it is good you at least tried to work towards looking past someone's sexual baggage and it's okay if you just can't bring yourself to. You were honest with yourself and you understood the lower chances of finding a partner and accepted it. That's all that matters.

Thanks so much for that, that's really kind of you to say, honestly :)  I know that it is unfair to blame someone for their mistakes in an environment where they should feel safe and loved. This is because in a relationship I would hope that that person accepts my mistakes and flaws and create an environment where I am safe and loved and I can do the same for them. There are certain issues that I would find easier to deal with than most so sexual baggage probably isn't going to be one I will look past. Sadly is does lower the chances of finding a partner but what helps me is knowing that having a spouse or husband will not make me happy - only I can do that. Having a spouse is an addition to your life that not everyone is privy too, so it's better to prepare for going through life without one than stalling and hoping one will show up which is what I did before and it made me angry and distressed. Now I'm just focusing on activities that bring me joy and fulfillment while strengthening my relationship with God. Through those things I try find contentment in my own life. However whenever I see a series on marriage or another friend on Facebook gets engaged, it does make me angry upset that I have no-one in my life to that level so I have to take steps to avoid things like that - happiness in a bubble if you will. 

@Adam Seeing your posts, it shocks me how similar we are in a way, it's very refreshing and comforting when you encouter someone on a similar wavelenght to your own :D 

19 hours ago, Adam said:

All of you have said some really profound things. I admire your ability to overlook their histories. Though if I'm being honest, I can't say that I would really want to have that ability. I never said that I was perfect. I don't have the most morally clean slate either. I have my own dispositions too; I tend to keep people at a distance, I'm ambivalent about putting my trust in others, I'm capable of jealousy, I never forget, so on and so forth. These characteristics, some life experiences and my own thoughts have led me to place this level of emphasis on virginity. Compounding this is how I see keeping my own virginity as a positive that would ideally be recognized and reciprocated. Whether or not that has any actual merit is subjective, I suppose. Just understand that I would never ask for a virgin if I wasn't a virgin myself.

The reasons as to why you've place such an emphasis on virginity are very similar to my own so I can definitely relate to that. I also tend to keep people at a distance and am weary of trusting others since too many times since I've seen it go very very bad and I know that jealousy would be an issue for me in a relationship too. I also agree with the fact that the ideal situation is that it would be reciprocated and I know that I would have a very hard time getting over the fact that they couldn't give themselves to me in the way that I would if that person wasn't a virgin. 

20 hours ago, Adam said:

I don't see myself as being able express love as fiercely as I would in a relationship where we are each other's first and only. I pretty much see it the way @BlackRose sees it. The imbalance between virgin and non-virgin would bother me too much. It just won't be healthy for either of us. Adultery is also a concerning issue. Having seen many people in my life having to deal with it, I can easily say that it is absolutely grounds for divorce. The fact that I've seen one person get caught, beg for forgiveness, only to eventually do it again really makes me think that past tends to have more impact on future decisions than people would like to believe. Having seen it so often is one of the things that influenced my desire to wait. I feel like I need to prove that I'm in control of myself and that I'm faithful to her even though we literally do not even know each other. I guess that's kind of silly, but hey, it's motivating. :superwaiter:

I also think I wouldn't be able to love someone as fiercely if they weren't a virgin compared to if they were yet I would want that same love in return. It's not fair to expect something from others and not be able to give the same. Personally I think once a cheat, always a cheat - if you have the capability to cheat once, you can do it again and that alone is enough to make me leave. I don't think it's silly, I think it romantic and also a reason why I want to wait to hopefully experience the joy of two virgins giving themselves to each other on their wedding night and experiencing sex for the first time with each other :D   

Thanks so much for your contribution and insight though everyone and for those of you who have taken the time to read this lengthy post, thank you :D 

 

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5 hours ago, BlackRose said:

I know a couple of people who were pressured into having sex with their boyfriends and the situations thereafter have been awful. It's really sad that some men are pressuring women. We need to reteach men not to do this but also let women know that if they truly respected you, you wouldn't have to have sex with them to stay. I would absolutely love to see this study though! It is true that men and women see sex differently, It's more of a physical thing for men but much more emotional for women. The numbers are certainly interesting though. I think that's where my issue lies for me as a woman. I know that the moment I have sex with my husband I'll be bonded to them in a way physically, emotionally and spiritually since sex is all of those things and that's something that would enable me to be committed to him. So unless that woman initially doesn't value sex or her first time which is unlikely, it will affect her in some way shape or form. In the same way, the fact that it would only have a negative affect on a marriage if a guy sleeps with 19+ people is really sad; it just shows that to guys like that sex is cheap and so giving away my virginity to someone who wouldn't value it at all makes we want to hold onto it all the more :( . However it is just a study and as they say, there are lies and then there's statistics ;)  There definitely is some truth in the results that the study has produced but more in the sense that in order to have a successful marriage, if one person is a virgin and the other isn't, you will have to work much harder at your marriage compared to if both people are virgins or both are not virgins. Mainly because there is a sexual imbalance that may cause resentment, comparisons etc - since sex is one of the 3 main reasons for marriages breaking down (the others being money and communication), by going into a marriage where the two people have had such differtent experiences, it's less likely but not impossible to make it work.

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/2002-male-and-female-statistical-data.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/virgin-bride.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2012/03/promiscuity-data-guest-post.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2012/08/more-promiscuity-data.html

http://cdn.freedomainradio.com/FDR_2899_Marriage_Partners_Study.pdf

There you are :). Obviously correlation doesn't equal causation. But there clearly is a strong link between the number of premarital sex partners and the likelihood of divorce and over all happiness in marriage. Having premarital sex doesn't automatically mean that your marriage is doomed to fail, but studies like this is just further evidence that sex isn't "just sex." It creates a very powerful and intense bond with the other person and therefore needs to be handled with great care.

6 hours ago, BlackRose said:

My dad always tells us to "work smarter, not harder" - that's how I see marrying a virgin to marrying a non-virgin. It can and will still work and there are plenty of relationships where it does. However, you may have to work harder to get the same result. The fact that you are open to dating a non-virgin means that it isn't a deal breaker - unlike myself where I need to find out whether they are a virgin or not in order to consider dating them or not. It's a process and if it is a deal breaker one day and not the next, that's fine since we're changing all the time but once you meet someone who you are seriously considering getting into a relationship with, I think it's only then you'll know whether or not if it's a deal breaker. 

Yes exactly. It does make me sad knowing that she couldn't exclusively be mine emotionally and sexually, but I could still accept her if and only if she has a complete change in mindset. She has to regret sleeping around and get right with God about it. Also, she has to be waiting out of her own accord and fully appreciate the value of waiting. I do not want to be with someone who didn't appreciate the fact that I waited for her. To me, that is almost like wasting my virginity on someone who don't think deserves it.

 

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4 hours ago, BlackRose said:

The reasons as to why you've place such an emphasis on virginity are very similar to my own so I can definitely relate to that. I also tend to keep people at a distance and am weary of trusting others since too many times since I've seen it go very very bad and I know that jealousy would be an issue for me in a relationship too. I also agree with the fact that the ideal situation is that it would be reciprocated and I know that I would have a very hard time getting over the fact that they couldn't give themselves to me in the way that I would if that person wasn't a virgin.

Betrayal was just an unfortunate reoccurring "trend" I noticed while growing up. Sometimes I was the victim of it, and other times I would see it happen to other people. It's particularly devastating when it comes from your own family. It definitely impacted my willingness to trust people. That and moving around a lot prevented me from being able to forge lengthy friendships with actual trustworthy people, so I came out of all this pretty jaded. I just naturally have these walls up now and well, you know how unpleasant it can feel.

I haven't talked about jealousy much, but it is something I feel. I think it's a natural thing, though. You might get the impression that it isn't when you talk to average people about it. Usually they just call you insecure and tell you to get over it. Not much sympathy there. Well, I'll always think it's an attractive quality. To me it just shows how deeply you care and how much this person means to you. I know that too much of it can be very dangerous, but you can have a healthy amount of it.

If I somehow against all my wishes ended up with someone who had a past, I would probably be resentful about it, but I think I would suffer silently. It would be something that holds me back from giving my best effort into the relationship, and if confronted about it I wouldn't be able to have a rational discussion about it since that person isn't someone who saved themselves for marriage, and as a result wouldn't be able to fully understand why I feel the way I do. It's also a little unsettling to think that they wouldn't have cared if I had slept with anyone before them, taking my decision to wait entirely for granted. But yeah, I'd rather be alone than deal with that. Don't want to have to put anybody through that either.

5 hours ago, BlackRose said:

I also think I wouldn't be able to love someone as fiercely if they weren't a virgin compared to if they were yet I would want that same love in return. It's not fair to expect something from others and not be able to give the same. Personally I think once a cheat, always a cheat - if you have the capability to cheat once, you can do it again and that alone is enough to make me leave. I don't think it's silly, I think it romantic and also a reason why I want to wait to hopefully experience the joy of two virgins giving themselves to each other on their wedding night and experiencing sex for the first time with each other :D 

I really think that nobody can truly appreciate a virgin WTM as much as another virgin WTM can. They understand better than anyone what having that title means and all of the challenges that come with it. I just see it as the best possible foundation to set a relationship on. Of course, all of the other necessary pieces of a relationship have to fall into place, and such a foundation isn't going to guarantee that happens. But I'm going to be the most optimistic about that specific scenario. Aside from that, it's just such a pleasant thing to think about. To know that you share so many special first experiences together. To believe that they were preserving themselves for you, and you for them.

Yeah, I agree. If someone has it in them to cheat, then that's that. Whether or not they regret it is irrelevant. Every single time I've seen somebody become a victim of infidelity, unless they immediately cut that person out from their life, it always got worse. Sometimes it gets so bad that the police have to get involved. I know it's not so easy to just cut someone out like that, and usually there are going to be more significant factors to it, but still. At least I know I wouldn't have a problem doing it. Having your cake and eating it too. I definitely see forgiven cheaters and "ex-playboys" that way. That thought does extend to born-agains as well. I don't mean to judge them so harshly. Like I do believe that they truly regret what they have done and that they want to repent. That's all good. I personally just wouldn't accept that either. Again, no offense to them.

And thanks, I'm glad you don't think it's silly. I think I made it sound like it's a challenge to control myself, but it actually is really easy. I guess that need to prove myself was just a defensive reaction to seeing so many people in my life cheat. I don't know. Like my dad and brother are total womanizers, and I suppose I could be the same way if I wanted, but I really have no interest in that. I'd never want to hurt anybody, or put myself before people I care about. To the very few people I do end up letting into my life, I have an extreme amount of loyalty for. Naturally, that loyalty extends to my future wife as well.

3 hours ago, BlackRose said:

@Adam Seeing your posts, it shocks me how similar we are in a way, it's very refreshing and comforting when you encouter someone on a similar wavelenght to your own :D

I find it shocking too. When I joined here I never really expected to meet anyone who I would relate with so closely. I wanted to at least be among other waiters, to know that other people are fighting the same battle. But I'm being consistently surprised at how often I'm able to truly sympathize with what people here are saying and how they are feeling. Usually unlike what I'm typically seeing in real life. Interacting with you specifically really has been amazingly refreshing and comforting. That's definitely the best way to put it. I've just been dealing with my own thoughts and emotions completely by myself for so many years that to meet someone who really gets it and is experienced in such a similar way is nothing short of amazing. I've become a lot happier since joining this place, and while several people have undeniably had their hand in making that happen, you have definitely had the biggest impact on it. I think I just feel a lot less alone after having met you. OK, I know I'm saying really mushy stuff but it really isn't often at all that I would get so sentimental. All I'm saying is that you've done a lot for me, more than you think and that I'm endlessly grateful. So thank you! :D

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On 7/9/2017 at 0:19 AM, Invincible said:

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/2002-male-and-female-statistical-data.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/virgin-bride.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2012/03/promiscuity-data-guest-post.html

http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2012/08/more-promiscuity-data.html

http://cdn.freedomainradio.com/FDR_2899_Marriage_Partners_Study.pdf

There you are :). Obviously correlation doesn't equal causation. But there clearly is a strong link between the number of premarital sex partners and the likelihood of divorce and over all happiness in marriage. Having premarital sex doesn't automatically mean that your marriage is doomed to fail, but studies like this is just further evidence that sex isn't "just sex." It creates a very powerful and intense bond with the other person and therefore needs to be handled with great care

Thanks so much for the studies! Didn't realise there has been so much research done but then again it makes sense :)  I agree with the bonding aspect though - that's what makes it so damaging if sex isn't handled with care at all. 

On 7/9/2017 at 0:19 AM, Invincible said:

Yes exactly. It does make me sad knowing that she couldn't exclusively be mine emotionally and sexually, but I could still accept her if and only if she has a complete change in mindset. She has to regret sleeping around and get right with God about it. Also, she has to be waiting out of her own accord and fully appreciate the value of waiting. I do not want to be with someone who didn't appreciate the fact that I waited for her. To me, that is almost like wasting my virginity on someone who don't think deserves it.

That's so true and one of the reason why I couldn't be with a non-virgin since I would kind of feel like it is wasted on them. Especially if they don't regret their actions - that's like adding salt to the wound :(  

On 7/9/2017 at 1:11 AM, Adam said:

Betrayal was just an unfortunate reoccurring "trend" I noticed while growing up. Sometimes I was the victim of it, and other times I would see it happen to other people. It's particularly devastating when it comes from your own family. It definitely impacted my willingness to trust people. That and moving around a lot prevented me from being able to forge lengthy friendships with actual trustworthy people, so I came out of all this pretty jaded. I just naturally have these walls up now and well, you know how unpleasant it can feel.

I haven't talked about jealousy much, but it is something I feel. I think it's a natural thing, though. You might get the impression that it isn't when you talk to average people about it. Usually they just call you insecure and tell you to get over it. Not much sympathy there. Well, I'll always think it's an attractive quality. To me it just shows how deeply you care and how much this person means to you. I know that too much of it can be very dangerous, but you can have a healthy amount of it.

If I somehow against all my wishes ended up with someone who had a past, I would probably be resentful about it, but I think I would suffer silently. It would be something that holds me back from giving my best effort into the relationship, and if confronted about it I wouldn't be able to have a rational discussion about it since that person isn't someone who saved themselves for marriage, and as a result wouldn't be able to fully understand why I feel the way I do. It's also a little unsettling to think that they wouldn't have cared if I had slept with anyone before them, taking my decision to wait entirely for granted. But yeah, I'd rather be alone than deal with that. Don't want to have to put anybody through that either.

Sorry to hear that :(  I haven't been betrayed persay but that's due to the walls I built up due to being let down by people and seeing others let those around me down. It does impact trust. I think another issue is due to the fact that falling in love and especially marriage involves becoming vulnerable because you trust them enough to do so. Sex (when it means something) is similar. 

Marrying someone with a past would definitely make me feel like I have to hold back at least emotionally, if not physically as well which isn't fair to them. I would feel like I've given 100% in that area so to balance the books it has to be made up in another area. I can't accept it and I'm probably not going to try to at this point. 

The problem with trust is that it's a bit of a catch 22 situation. People will let you down and sometimes we let others down and this is something we'd have to accept in marriage. That alone makes being single much more appealing :P  

On 7/9/2017 at 1:11 AM, Adam said:

And thanks, I'm glad you don't think it's silly. I think I made it sound like it's a challenge to control myself, but it actually is really easy. I guess that need to prove myself was just a defensive reaction to seeing so many people in my life cheat. I don't know. Like my dad and brother are total womanizers, and I suppose I could be the same way if I wanted, but I really have no interest in that. I'd never want to hurt anybody, or put myself before people I care about. To the very few people I do end up letting into my life, I have an extreme amount of loyalty for. Naturally, that loyalty extends to my future wife as well

Haha same here tbh. I've never experienced sexual attraction or anything like that so I have no desire to actually go and lose my virginity. Therefore it makes sense to only have sex with my husband when we are married because that's the only scenario where I will experience sexual attraction... like ever. Also I'd probably be hurting myself more in the process rather than anything else. For me personally loyalty links in with trust a whole lot. If you are fiercely loyal to people then you have to be even more careful with who you trust and open up too since if it goes wrong, it can be even more damaging. 

On 7/9/2017 at 1:11 AM, Adam said:

I find it shocking too. When I joined here I never really expected to meet anyone who I would relate with so closely. I wanted to at least be among other waiters, to know that other people are fighting the same battle. But I'm being consistently surprised at how often I'm able to truly sympathize with what people here are saying and how they are feeling. Usually unlike what I'm typically seeing in real life. Interacting with you specifically really has been amazingly refreshing and comforting. That's definitely the best way to put it. I've just been dealing with my own thoughts and emotions completely by myself for so many years that to meet someone who really gets it and is experienced in such a similar way is nothing short of amazing. I've become a lot happier since joining this place, and while several people have undeniably had their hand in making that happen, you have definitely had the biggest impact on it. I think I just feel a lot less alone after having met you. OK, I know I'm saying really mushy stuff but it really isn't often at all that I would get so sentimental. All I'm saying is that you've done a lot for me, more than you think and that I'm endlessly grateful. So thank you! :D

It's great that there is a forum like this. It shows so many different reason why people are WTM and I felt has been rather educational and it's always easier when you know people are going through something similar :) Dealing with your own thoughts and emotions adds to a lot of the emotions like lack of trust and jealousy etc which doesn't help but it's a vicious cycle as with a lot of things in life. And no worries, a little bit of mushiness is always fine by me ;)    I'll be honest, I wasn't thinking of saying a lot of the things that I have said on this forum but seeing your posts gave me the courage to do do so which is something I really didn't expect at all, but it's always easier to open up when you've faced the same issue and I definitely feel like that's made me feel better about myself to; so just so you know,  you've also done a lot for me too. Thanks Adam :D 

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4 hours ago, BlackRose said:

And no worries, a little bit of mushiness is always fine by me ;)    I'll be honest, I wasn't thinking of saying a lot of the things that I have said on this forum but seeing your posts gave me the courage to do so which is something I really didn't expect at all, but it's always easier to open up when you've faced the same issue and I definitely feel like that's made me feel better about myself to; so just so you know,  you've also done a lot for me too. Thanks Adam :D 

That's wonderful, I'm so happy to hear that. :D That makes all of this opening up really worth it. It's awesome that we're able to make such an impact just by being genuine and honest. Knowing that I could potentially inspire and motivate others is such a compelling thing. It just allows me the opportunity to give back for what you and others here have done for me. Hearing that gratitude from you especially means a lot, given our similar histories. I think because of that, I just felt it was important for me to level with you as much as I can. Regardless, I'm really glad I could do that for you. :)

4 hours ago, BlackRose said:

Sorry to hear that :(  I haven't been betrayed persay but that's due to the walls I built up due to being let down by people and seeing others let those around me down. It does impact trust. I think another issue is due to the fact that falling in love and especially marriage involves becoming vulnerable because you trust them enough to do so. Sex (when it means something) is similar.

Those experiences shaped those walls into existence. I had to become more withdrawn and weary as defense mechanism; it was to protect myself from those kind of people. The thing about me is that at my core, I can be pretty naive and optimistic. Never cared to dwell on negativity, I hate lying and I try my best to be selfless. While growing up, I guess it was easy for people to take advantage of those traits and abuse my trust in them. Eventually I caught on to it, and that brings me to where I am today. My guard's always up.

Being able to let myself be vulnerable is something I really want to have in a marriage. To be able to have total reign to be who I am without having to worry, and to be loved for it. I try to afford other people the same luxury. I always want to be the type of person people feel like they can genuinely trust and open up to.

5 hours ago, BlackRose said:

The problem with trust is that it's a bit of a catch 22 situation. People will let you down and sometimes we let others down and this is something we'd have to accept in marriage. That alone makes being single much more appealing :P

True. It's definitely easier at least. You can always trust yourself to do exactly what you expect of yourself. Though I'll always believe that the right people can really make it work. That's why it's so important that we hold on to our preferences and uphold our dealbreakers. We know what it will take to achieve a strong, trusting relationship.

5 hours ago, BlackRose said:

Haha same here tbh. I've never experienced sexual attraction or anything like that so I have no desire to actually go and lose my virginity. Therefore it makes sense to only have sex with my husband when we are married because that's the only scenario where I will experience sexual attraction... like ever. Also I'd probably be hurting myself more in the process rather than anything else. For me personally loyalty links in with trust a whole lot. If you are fiercely loyal to people then you have to be even more careful with who you trust and open up too since if it goes wrong, it can be even more damaging.

The more I think about the more I realize how much trust plays into attraction for me. I can recognize when a woman is conventionally attractive, but that by itself doesn't do anything for me. In order for me to truly feel a significant level of attraction, I would need to really trust her.

Yeah, you're right about loyalty. I think I've outlined myself as the type of person who especially needs to be extra careful. Though the people I am loyal to, I don't actually let myself be vulnerable to them either. That loyalty is really just me following my own code, I suppose. I don't judge them, I keep their secrets, I honor their wishes and I would never lie to or abandon them. But even they, I only let in so much.

6 hours ago, BlackRose said:

Dealing with your own thoughts and emotions adds to a lot of the emotions like lack of trust and jealousy etc which doesn't help but it's a vicious cycle as with a lot of things in life.

It is a vicious cycle. Coming here was definitely a good way to break out of it. The whole issue with trust is something I sort of just accepted, but now you've got me thinking about it more. I didn't understand just how much I truly valued it until I started typing out all the content in this post. It's definitely something I'm gonna keep in mind.

Again, I'm happy we could help each other. ^_^ I think it's a lot easier to stay focused when we know someone else who thinks and feels the same way or at least close to it. It's just pleasant to be able to have that positive reinforcement. So if you ever want to talk about anything, I'm always up for it. In all honesty, you would be the first person I would want to consult here if I ever had something substantial on my mind. Anyhow, I think I sorta derailed the thread, so I'll just cut it here. :wacko: Thanks again!

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11 hours ago, Adam said:

Again, I'm happy we could help each other. ^_^ I think it's a lot easier to stay focused when we know someone else who thinks and feels the same way or at least close to it. It's just pleasant to be able to have that positive reinforcement. So if you ever want to talk about anything, I'm always up for it. In all honesty, you would be the first person I would want to consult here if I ever had something substantial on my mind. Anyhow, I think I sorta derailed the thread, so I'll just cut it here. :wacko: Thanks again!

I pretty much agree with everything you've said :D  I am happy we could help each other. I helps so much when you know that there are others who relate to what you're going through, No worries, I'm always happy to talk to anyone here - I'm sure I'll take you up on that offer. Please feel free to give me a buzz if there is anything on your mind at all. 

And it's not a problem at all. I'm sure everyone, myself include is grateful for your contribution :) 

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On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

For myself, I could never even think of dating someone who isn't a virgin. I personally see it as getting the shorter end of the stick and I would rather be alone. If I'm not going to get 100% in that department, to me it seems like a waste of time.

Virgins are also just as equally capable of not giving 100% in that department. This is why I believe this particular issue should be a case by case basis and not a blanketed belief…You have to truly know someone’s heart/mind to say you’re not getting all of them. However, virgin or non-virgin, if any one of these possibilities are true, then yes you would NOT be getting 100% of a man’s love or sexual intimacy…and subsequently you would be getting short changed:

  1. He is physically or sexually settling for you
  2. He is still in love with his previous partner/s
  3. A combination of 1 & 2

I am not a virgin but if I ever get married, my hypothetical wife will unequivocally know she is getting ALL 100% of me and not the short end of any stick. She would know this because my passion and love for her would be absolute, she would see this through my actions and feelings towards her, she would know and see that I am not settling for her and because I would want to commit the rest of my life to only her and no other woman.

If she told me I was not giving her 100% of myself, then she is claiming to know my own heart/mind better than myself or calling me a liar...either way, both are bad. Imagine if you were in a relationship and loved your bf and really wanted him to propose to you…but he says “You don’t love me.”  That would probably frustrate you because he can’t tell you…how you feel for him.

On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

Why is a person not being a virgin not a deal-breaker for you?

  1. The main reason is because if I ever get married, I will make sure my wife will not be physically or sexually settling for me. So to me it does not matter how many men she has slept with…Sure if she’s a virgin, then great…it is just a bonus but nothing more.
  2. I value the woman I’m with, not her virginity.  
  3. I am also confident and secure with my body and that is why I would not be bothered by other men my hypothetical wife had sex with. I will hope she was treated well during her sexual past, hope she had fun and I will do my very very very best to make sure I am the best possible husband to her in the bedroom and outside the bedroom.
On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

How do you/would you actively get over the fact that they have had other sexual partners

I am not sure I understand this question…sorry I’m slow:blink:…If you’re referring to getting 100%, well you already have my 0.02 cents on that. If not and you’re referring to something else, then I’ll share some personal experience from when I was a virgin.

When I met my ex, I was as virgin as they came lol, I never kissed, touched or did anything with a woman. She is my only physical, sexual and emotional experience. She on the other hand had sex with more than 60 men. We were together for about 3.5 years and I was her longest relationship. During that time, I knew she was sexually satisfied with me. We had a happy, healthy, committed and monogamous relationship. When it ended, it was very amicable. I could have married her but at the end of the day there were some major incompatibility issues, which had nothing to do with her sexual history.

So the way I see it, when you are confident and secure with your body, when you know your partner loves you and is not physically or sexually settling for you, he/she accepts you as is, when you know you’re able to satisfy your partner, hopefully then you realize you have nothing to get over. Knowing this, if I chose for some reason to let my ex’s past become a problem, then at that point I would be the one creating a problem in the relationship.

I would also add that knowing what constitutes as good sex and what is bad, is very helpful. It can alleviate the fears of the unknown. This is where you are lucky being a woman. Virgin or non-virgin, most men are really easy to satisfy in that department.…Once you know what his sexual needs are, just have passion and fun when addressing his needs…Enjoy and have fun when giving to him, don’t make him ask for the things you know he enjoys/needs, show him you care about being good, be happy, excited and joyful when you are giving. (obviously the same goes for him:) If you can do that, you will rock his world. So what's to get over? This is easy! :)

On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

you have not i.e. the lack of exclusivity that will never be truly present in your relationship should you choose to marry them? 

I thought exclusivity means that when you’re in a relationship, it’s completely monogamous?  Not an open marriage where the wife/husband can sleep with other people. In the present and future tense, they will remain exclusive and faithful to one another.

On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

What is your deal-breaker since I assume it is something else? 

Non-obvious deal-breaker: Would be if a woman is settling for me. I don’t care about how many sexual partners she has had but if she’s settling for me then she will not become my wife.

Settling - To me this is when your SO has to make a sacrifice (not a compromise…massive difference) to be with you. I have noticed two criteria present when this happens to people:

  1. It is outside of the person’s ability to fulfill or meet the sacrifice their SO made.
  2. The SO will always yearn, desire and want the thing/s they sacrificed.

The result of this means the person settling will usually not be happy and/or fulfilled with the relationship.

Let’s say for example, I hypothetically was in a situation and had to choose between two women… lol:lol: and don’t question the details, just go along with it…They are both identical except in the following ways:

-  Woman A is a virgin and she loves me. However, she is not physically or sexually attracted to me. She sexually desires a completely different type of man and she knows she always will. Subsequently, she also knows her ability to orgasm or to even be sexually satisfied by me will be greatly hindered…but she is willing to make that sacrifice because she is older, single and tired of being alone…So she is willing to settle because she views me as the “nice guy”...and something is better than nothing.

-  Woman B has over 100 sexual partners (STD/Child free) and she too loves me. However, she would NOT be physically or sexually settling for me and subsequently knows she will be satisfied by me. She too is older, lonely and wants to find someone to be with.

I will choose woman B without a shadow of a doubt...Every time. I want to be with someone who can accept me the way I am. Someone who will not have to make a sacrifice just to be with me. That is a person I will be able to satisfy and someone who will be able to give me 100%. Woman A would always wish or prefer I would be someone I can never become. Furthermore, since she made a sacrifice to be with me, there will always be something missing. Woman A is someone I struggle to see being able to give me 100% of herself, despite being a virgin.

Obvious deal breakers: A women who only has passion for her sexual needs and not mine, STDs that are incurable, not over her ex’s, lots of babies, wanting a sexually open and/or a non-exclusive marriage, sexual narcissism, violent and/or painful sex, I don’t think I would have anything against role playing (never done it) but if she needs/wants it I could do it…but it can’t be anything gross and taboo, which those details would be discussed way before marriage…or infrequent sex….yeah I have an insatiable drive so I won’t be able to keep my grubby hands off of her haha.:wub:   (i actually don't have grubby hands...they are clean and always have my nails clipped)

On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

Firstly this does not include rape victims or those who have been sexually assaulted because I believe that an important aspect in losing your virginity should be the fact that is consensual.

Thank you for this. While I am not a victim, I have read some extremely disturbing posts from some members discussing this topic…let’s just say they displayed the least empathetic response one could have.

On 7/1/2017 at 10:50 AM, BlackRose said:

I recognise that there are other things to consider when deciding to date (and therefore marry a person) like faith, integrity, faithfulness, ability to raise children, views on controversial topics etc but the way I see it is, if we can't get over the first hurdle then the others don't matter. This excludes faith though, they must be Christian first and foremost.

What if God wants you to marry a non-virgin? Are you open to what He may want for you, even if that differs from what you want?....These are just rhetorical questions.

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On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

Virgins are also just as equally capable of not giving 100% in that department. This is why I believe this particular issue should be a case by case basis and not a blanketed belief…You have to truly know someone’s heart/mind to say you’re not getting all of them. However, virgin or non-virgin, if any one of these possibilities are true, then yes you would NOT be getting 100% of a man’s love or sexual intimacy…and subsequently you would be getting short changed:

  1. He is physically or sexually settling for you
  2. He is still in love with his previous partner/s
  3. A combination of 1 & 2

Of course that's true. A person being a virgin doesn't make them automatically better but for me, it increases the level of trust I can have towards that person. Two virgins becoming one together on their wedding night don't have the extra barrier between them of past sexual partners and getting rid of those thoughts. They would only have thoughts of each other  For me a person being a non-virgin just shows me that they have no control over themselves in that department and automatically, I will lose respect for that person if I am to find out that they are not a virgin and they then ask me out. It does not mean that they are a bad person, I just feel that we could never be on the same wavelength on certain issues because your actions suggest to me that regardless of what you have been told in the bible, they thought it was right to have premarital sex which I disagree with a passion for both moral and religious reasons. Actions will always speak louder than words. For me, being a virgin in this day and age says a lot about your values and morals as an individual. In marriage, it's important to be with someone who's moral compass is on the same wavelength as yours, otherwise it's not going to work in the long run. 

However, I would also like to add that with regards to the situations above, this is what the dating process and pre-marriage counselling are for. If he exhibited either of the above behaviours or I felt that I wasn't getting 100% of him I would drop him in heartbeat :P However, he's not going to know if he's sexually settling for me until we're married so that in this case it's  irrelevant. In the case of a non-virgin, you automatically don't get 100% of their love and sexual intimacy. They have shared that with someone else. You may get 100% of what they have left to give but it's essentially getting a smaller pie rather than a full size one so it's never going to be a true 100%. In monetary terms, £50 doesn't equal £100. They are both still of value because money is valuable just like sexual intimacy, but no matter what, the virgin is getting 100% of a smaller amount (in this case the £50) which overall is still smaller and of lesser value whereas the non-virgin is getting 100% of a larger amount (in this case the £100) and essentially having their cake and eating it too (they earn £50). This is what I have an issue with and why I have extreme reservation in terms of marrying a non-virgin. 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

I am not a virgin but if I ever get married, my hypothetical wife will unequivocally know she is getting ALL 100% of me and not the short end of any stick. She would know this because my passion and love for her would be absolute, she would see this through my actions and feelings towards her, she would know and see that I am not settling for her and because I would want to commit the rest of my life to only her and no other woman.

If she told me I was not giving her 100% of myself, then she is claiming to know my own heart/mind better than myself or calling me a liar...either way, both are bad. Imagine if you were in a relationship and loved your bf and really wanted him to propose to you…but he says “You don’t love me.”  That would probably frustrate you because he can’t tell you…how you feel for him.

And that's fine, there are plenty of women like that in this world. I just happen to not be one of then. Like I've said before, I see it as getting 100% of a smaller pie (see above). Now I know that things are not fair but for me this would be settling. There are no actions or words that a guy could say that will make me change my mind or alleviate my concerns in that area if they are not a virgin because once you've lost it, I can't see you as giving me the true 100%. Instead you're giving me a new 100% which for me doesn't hold the same value. It's like when there is adultery in a relationship, the relationship changes forever and it will never be the same again. The couple has to find a new normal to accommodate for the adultery and help in the process of rebuilding trust. For me I view non-virginity in the same way, I would have to find a new normal to accommodate for the lack of trust I would have to them in that department. Now because I am not married to that person, I am under no obligation to do this so I am better off finding someone who's views align with my own because our standards would be the same.

I do agree that both are bad and that's why it's important to know if this is a serious dealbreaker for you which in my case it is. Even if the guy told me and possibly showed me that they were giving 100%, it would never really be enough for me. Their actions have spoken. It's like if someone murders a person. The can say that they are sorry all they like and repent 10 fold but it still doesn't change the fact that they have killed someone. There is forgiveness but there are also consequences. Virginity is irreversible; once it's gone, you can never get it back and it speaks volumes to me if a person has been able to be in previous relationships and still hold onto their virginity (and by virginity I don't just mean no PIV sex but that's another discussion).  I don't want to waste his or my time. Again with adultery, it wouldn't matter how sorry they are, if they cheated on me, I will be divorcing them - end of story. 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:
  1. The main reason is because if I ever get married, I will make sure my wife will not be physically or sexually settling for me. So to me it does not matter how many men she has slept with…Sure if she’s a virgin, then great…it is just a bonus but nothing more.
  2. I value the woman I’m with, not her virginity.  
  3. I am also confident and secure with my body and that is why I would not be bothered by other men my hypothetical wife had sex with. I will hope she was treated well during her sexual past, hope she had fun and I will do my very very very best to make sure I am the best possible husband to her in the bedroom and outside the bedroom.
  1. Seeing as you aren't a virgin currently, it would naturally follow that it's a lot easier for you to accept a woman being a non virgin. I know that you were also in that situation but it suggests to me that you didn't value virginty highly to begin with if you could lose it to someone who's had sex with 60 + people. That may or may not be true but that's how I view it.
  2. It's not the virginity that is of value but the things that virginity is associated with: faithfulness, self-control etc. That's not to say that non-virgins don't have those qualities, but in the sex department, it's hard to see it like that. However I do value virginity in men. It's honestly rare to meet virgin men nowadays (I still haven't met one in real life) so I would value it in that sense too and have much more respect for them. A non-virgin male just tells me that he's like the rest of the world in that case.
  3. I feel like this is very insensitive but again you're talking as a non-virgin and I'm talking as a virgin. Having confidence about your body doesn't make the issue go away if you are concerned with the lack of sexual exclusivity in the relationship which destroys it at the core for me (although I explain this a bit more below) 
On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

I thought exclusivity means that when you’re in a relationship, it’s completely monogamous?  Not an open marriage where the wife/husband can sleep with other people. In the present and future tense, they will remain exclusive and faithful to one another.

By exclusivity I mean that they have not been with any other person sexually but you. There is something special and sacred about that and I believe that it lost when one person is a virgin and the other isn't. For me this is what constitutes real intimacy and is the way that God intended it.  Everything else falls short of that mark. The non-virgin brings along with them sexual baggage and the lack of sexual exclusivity to the relationship. They dynamic is different if they are both not virgins. For me, my husband being a virgin would enable me to open up to him mentally, physically and emotionally because I know that there will be no comparisons or sexual baggage being brought into our relationship and for me that is beautiful. The moment they are not, I will always feel a bit shortchanged and emotionally hold back from them so it doesn't make sense to enter this type of relationship for both his and my sake.

 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

Let’s say for example, I hypothetically was in a situation and had to choose between two women… lol:lol: and don’t question the details, just go along with it…They are both identical except in the following ways:

-  Woman A is a virgin and she loves me. However, she is not physically or sexually attracted to me. She sexually desires a completely different type of man and she knows she always will. Subsequently, she also knows her ability to orgasm or to even be sexually satisfied by me will be greatly hindered…but she is willing to make that sacrifice because she is older, single and tired of being alone…So she is willing to settle because she views me as the “nice guy”...and something is better than nothing.

-  Woman B has over 100 sexual partners (STD/Child free) and she too loves me. However, she would NOT be physically or sexually settling for me and subsequently knows she will be satisfied by me. She too is older, lonely and wants to find someone to be with.

I will choose woman B without a shadow of a doubt...Every time. I want to be with someone who can accept me the way I am. Someone who will not have to make a sacrifice just to be with me. That is a person I will be able to satisfy and someone who will be able to give me 100%. Woman A would always wish or prefer I would be someone I can never become. Furthermore, since she made a sacrifice to be with me, there will always be something missing. Woman A is someone I struggle to see being able to give me 100% of herself, despite being a virgin.

There is always a 3rd option, choose neither. Both involve settling and for me (assuming they are male obviously) they both have qualities that I would find unattractive in a spouse. Like I said before, just because someone is a virgin doesn't make them better but it does make it more likely that they would be (although in this situation that would not be the case for Person A). Person B however makes me doubt that they seriously understand how highly I value sexual intimacy. They wouldn't ever understand or appreciate the fact that I've waited so losing my virginity to that person would be wasted on them. It's like giving an expensive gift to someone who shows no appreciation for it but throwing it away or/and shows no gratitude; of course it's good to give but the matter of the fact is, that gift was wasted on them and it would have a much higher value being given to someone who appreciated it. 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

I would also add that knowing what constitutes as good sex and what is bad, is very helpful. It can alleviate the fears of the unknown. This is where you are lucky being a woman. Virgin or non-virgin, most men are really easy to satisfy in that department.…Once you know what his sexual needs are, just have passion and fun when addressing his needs…Enjoy and have fun when giving to him, don’t make him ask for the things you know he enjoys/needs, show him you care about being good, be happy, excited and joyful when you are giving. (obviously the same goes for him:) If you can do that, you will rock his world. So what's to get over? This is easy! :)

Again you're saying this from the perspective of a non-virgin. That brings little comfort to those who have waited and are still virgins. I also feel like this opinion gives virgins, especially women very little credit. I am not fearful of sex and there is a lot of knowledge available to know what good marital sex should be like  and I'm all for the opinion of educating yourself to know what to expect in a marital sexual relationship...although this does now mean that I have a whole list of things I want to try with my husband though lol.

For me, I'm not concerned about pleasing him sexually; that's something I'll learn how to do and will be happy to do as his wife and I hope he would be the same with me. What will be lost is the opportunity to learn about each other together and only each other. The sacredness of sex being between just the two of us as husband and wife exclusively is forever lost and is not something I take lightly, hence why it's a dealbreaker for me. He as a non-virgin would be bringing to the relationship information and techniques he's learnt and used on other women. That doesn't make me feel special, and it doesn't make sex seem like something that is intimate and done between two people that love each other,  it makes me feel like I'm another person on his list of people he's slept with and that for me is disgusting and trashy. It's disgusting to think that he's performed such intimate acts on another human being and then "claims" that it's special with me :wacko: I can't physically fathom having sex with someone who isn't my husband to the point where I feel almost sick. I don't understand why people can have sexual desires to engage in activities with people that they aren't married to. That's what I need to get over and frankly someone telling me they love me isn't going to be enough. It's not as easy as you make it seem. Just because you were able to get over it (hence why you were fine having sex with a woman who's slept with over 60+ people), don't forget that some people cannot. It tends to be a common excuse that non-virgins give to virgins: 

  • It's not that deep
  • Just get over it 
  • It may not be their first time with you but it's still special etc

I wouldn't consider dating someone who's even slept with 1 person (unless they fit certain requirements that I have e.g. they have not had sex for over 4 or more years AND tick all of the boxes but due to their lack of virginity, I would judge them more harshly so even with that lifeline, it's unlikely I would date them since I would nit pick and find an excuse not to). So a person who's been with 60 + people just says to me that they don't value the sacredness of sexual intimacy, there's no coming back from that point - to me they are not dateable and not marriage material. As you can see we are coming from very different perspectives and we're probably best to agree to disagree on this. 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

Thank you for this. While I am not a victim, I have read some extremely disturbing posts from some members discussing this topic…let’s just say they displayed the least empathetic response one could have.

Oh dear, that's quite a shame. I'm lucky to have not seen those posts, I didn't even know they existed :blink: Rape and sexual assault should always be separated, since it's through no fault of their own. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It just makes me sad and angry that there are people in this world that would do that. Further blaming and saying that they aren't a virgin again is like another slap to the face for something that isn't their fault which is cruel and heartless in my opinion. 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:09 PM, SG1 said:

What if God wants you to marry a non-virgin? Are you open to what He may want for you, even if that differs from what you want?....These are just rhetorical questions.

I have considered this time and time again. We all do. I know for myself and God knows me, it's either the guy has to be a virgin or I will remain and be happily single. It's both for the guy's benefit and my own. You have to know yourself. Some people can handle being married to a non-virgin just like some people can handle adultery. Others cannot and therefore will not stand for this. I would unfairly hold it against him which would make him miserable and I know that knowing that he has been intimate with another woman would make me miserable. Also for me, my love language is Acts of Service followed by Quality Time. Words of Affirmation is the lowest one for me. In order to get over it, you must value what people say, but I live by the saying that actions speak louder than words. Words are cheap when it comes to sex because it's a mainly physical thing. They can claim that they "wish they had waited for me" and "they love me" but it does not erase the fact that they have had sex, an act of intimacy that should be between husband and wife only, with another person (or people) on this planet. To me that speaks volumes about how they value sex. You cannot take back or undo your actions once they are done but you can always twist words and say "that's not what I meant" or "I didn't mean it like that". Furthermore there are too many stories of one person being a virgin and the other isn't and the virgin has a hard time getting over the fact that their spouse was sexually active with other people in the past. It's the kind of thing that can either go away with time or hurt more with time. When deciding to enter a relationship or marriage you should choose your battles carefully and that's one I choose to avoid.

There are very specific circumstances where I would be willing to accept a non-virgin but if not then I am happy not never be married and that doesn't bother me at all. I've never had a crush or been sexually turned on by another person so I cannot sympathise with any reason a person would give as to why they had sex before or outside of a marriage context - period. It's not something that I respect as a decision and so overall at this point there is no reason as to why myself as a virgin would marry a non-virgin. Again, that's not to say that other virgins wouldn't and there are plenty of virgins that are fine marrying non-virgins. However there are also virgins who will not marry non-virigins and that should be respected as well. 

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Well, it's 

On 7/1/2017 at 11:50 AM, BlackRose said:
  1. Why is a person not being a virgin not a deal-breaker for you? 
  2. How do you/would you actively get over the fact that they have had other sexual partners and you have not i.e. the lack of exclusivity that will never be truly present in your relationship should you choose to marry them? 
  3. What is your deal-breaker since I assume it is something else? .

Hmm. Well let me try and address your points one at a time, as briefly as I can.

1) Because there are plenty of quality women in the world that don't deserve to be passed over just because they have made a few mistakes. Not everyone will have shared your journey or your perceptions, but the mistakes they made and the experiences they had make up who they are today. I also believe that while as virgins, we certainly have a right to be picky, it ultimately isn't beneficial to be picky, for the reasons I said.

2) I'd draw on the fact that they love me now, and that I love them and am attempting to build a life with them. You can either ask that she disclose who she was involved with, or you can just elect to never bring it up. Being that it's generally a good idea to get an STI test done, the issue will come up sooner rather than later.

3) Basically someone who wasn't willing to be patient and wait. While I'm not opposed to women who have had multiple partners, I wouldn't want a woman who has a reputation for sleeping around. Also, while I am comfortable with the idea of dating a single mother, there's limits, and mine is no more than two children. However, when dating a single mom, you have to be patient and understanding with her, because her time is not really her own, and ultimately, you are not a priority. So you'll have to mature fast and just be patient.

 

Anyway, hope this helps. If you have any questions, tag me, and I'll respond.

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On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

In the case of a non-virgin, you automatically don't get 100% of their love and sexual intimacy. They have shared that with someone else. You may get 100% of what they have left to give but it's essentially getting a smaller pie rather than a full size one so it's never going to be a true 100%. In monetary terms, £50 doesn't equal £100. They are both still of value because money is valuable just like sexual intimacy, but no matter what, the virgin is getting 100% of a smaller amount (in this case the £50) which overall is still smaller and of lesser value whereas the non-virgin is getting 100% of a larger amount (in this case the £100) and essentially having their cake and eating it too (they earn £50).

1)      It seems like you’re stating this one analogy as absolute fact. It definitely does NOT apply to every non-virgin and your analogy can also apply to virgins who have shared their love and emotional intimacy. You would have to be extremely arrogant to claim that you know the capabilities of how much love and intimacy everyone is capable of giving. The reason I said this needs to be a case by case basis is because we all don’t respond the same way to varying stimulus. That is why you have to know more about a person before you claim to know how much you’re getting. For instance, these are just a few of many other possibilities:

    A)    There are people that can have their love and intimacy continuously restored to the exact same amount. If their relationship ends, their love and intimacy tank gets  empty. When they find the next person, their tank gets topped off… Just like filling up a car, it will be the same amount every time.

   B  )     There are also many people whose love and intimacy grows and deepens as they experience more relationships. They need these diverse experiences to get to know themselves and they use all the good things they have learned to become a much better person. They now have way more to give, not less and their pie is bigger because they got more ingredients.

   C)     Then there are the types that have hearts like glass…if it drops and gets shattered, it can never be put back together. They will never be able to love again

2)      Since you mentioned the importance of Christianity, where in the Bible does it say non-virgins are not capable of giving the same amount of love and sexual intimacy as they did during their first time…or what medical/psychological studies/research show this to be true? After Christ saw the good in a person’s heart/mind, when did He view them as only being capable of giving less or “what they have left to give.”….???? He did not view the sinful woman who greeted Him in Luke 7 that way. He did not view the thief on the cross next to Him that way. Christ did not judge them by their actions for a very specific reason, He judged them by what was in their hearts.

Actions/words can be cheap and by no means can they show/tell what's in someone’s heart/mind. The Pharisees might have had good actions but some of their hearts were bad… People can show you everything you want to see just as easily as they can tell you what you want to hear. The thief’s heart spoke WAY louder than his actions and that is why Christ accepted the thief into heaven. He showed them empathy, grace, mercy and forgiveness and thank God He does not judge us by our actions alone.  

3)     You can’t actually prove how much of a person you’re getting any more than you can prove if someone has had consensual sex…and that’s because these things are abstract. Abstract things like love, commitment, settling et cetera usually require the other person to have faith and trust in their partner. How much of a person you get is determined by their heart/mindset towards you in the present, not their actions in the past. People lie all the time about being a virgin or hide their infidelity. If their partner’s find out the truth, it’s because the lie got exposed. If their actions determined how much they could give and/or their virginity was not abstract to the other person, then their partner’s would have known right away that they were getting less. There are even guys on this site who found out their wives lied about their virginity.

4)      Sharing does not always equal taking or an automatic loss of something. That would be a really selfish way of looking at it. In many ways sharing can help others to grow and learn. If a non-virgin’s or virgin’s relationship/s made them grow into a better individual, they now have more to give to the next person…not less. I think a person has a “smaller pie” when they can’t grow from their experiences and become a bad person, they still have romantic feelings for an ex/s or when a person is closed minded to other religious, social and moral views because they think theirs are superior…that is when someone has less to offer.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

For me this is what constitutes real intimacy and is the way that God intended it.  Everything else falls short of that mark. The non-virgin brings along with them sexual baggage and the lack of sexual exclusivity to the relationship. They dynamic is different if they are both not virgins. For me, my husband being a virgin would enable me to open up to him mentally, physically and emotionally because I know that there will be no comparisons or sexual baggage being brought into our relationship and for me that is beautiful. The moment they are not, I will always feel a bit shortchanged and emotionally hold back from them so it doesn't make sense to enter this type of relationship for both his and my sake.

Well I sure hope you find a virgin husband. I get that in terms of a relationship you don’t want to be compared to other women…but it seems rather hypocritical for you to compare non-virgins to virgins and adulterers (which the last one is illogical and completely degrading to a massive number of people)…and then to make a blanketed assessment and finalization that their love and sexual intimacy is now less valuable…Virgins who have had relationships can also compare partners to ones from the past, no differently than a non-virgin. At the end of the day, there is a big difference between comparing and noticing differences. Plenty of virgins and non-virgins do not compare, that is why you have to get to know the person first.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

I feel like this is very insensitive but again you're talking as a non-virgin and I'm talking as a virgin. Having confidence about your body doesn't make the issue go away if you are concerned with the lack of sexual exclusivity in the relationship which destroys it at the core for me (although I explain this a bit more below) 

No, you’re incorrect about the virgin comment. Like I said before, I was a virgin when I met her. She was my first kiss and even the first women I romantically held hands with. You don’t get much more virgin than that especially as a 28 year old male lol. There was no issue for me, regarding her sexual history. I felt the same then as I do now.

Confidence means a person has self-assurance that comes from acknowledging and appreciating their abilities, qualities, strengths and life experiences. Security means they will have a level of mental stability that is not easily disrupted, even during significant disturbances in their life. If a person knows they complete their partner, has confidence/security and then places their faith and trust in their partner, I don’t see how healthy, safe STD/Child free relationships from the past can be problematic in the present. These qualities/traits should allow them to be thankful, excited and appreciative that they found a person who currently shares their values and wants to spend the rest of their life committed to them. If one or more of these things are missing then I can definitely see how their sexual history could be a problem. Sexual exclusivity would not be the root cause to the problem, it would be the person who lacks the ability to handle something that happened in the past. And/or their lack of faith and trust they have for their partner…that is what becomes toxic and destroys a relationship.  

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

Two virgins becoming one together on their wedding night don't have the extra barrier between them of past sexual partners and getting rid of those thoughts.

A virgin with confidence/security will not have those thoughts in the first place…especially, if they know their partner is not settling for them in anyway. They should have faith and trust in the person they are marrying…If on their wedding night they are thinking about the things they don’t like about their new bride/groom, they probably just made a colossal mistake.

I can see an ex being a barrier if the other person still has feelings for them or the ex is presently involved in the person’s life and is getting prioritized first. i.e. If they are in school together, work together, share custody of a child/children et cetera.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

For me a person being a non-virgin just shows me that they have no control over themselves in that department and automatically, I will lose respect for that person if I am to find out that they are not a virgin and they then ask me out.

There are people who suffer from severe chemical imbalances resulting in hypersexual urges and controlling their actions and enduring a celibate life can be catastrophic on their physical and mental health. Similar chemical imbalances can cause severe depression in people or premenstrual dysphoric disorder in women. We would not tell the people suffering from depression to try harder, control yourself and if you still feel depressed then you have no control over yourself. They often need medication to help adjust the imbalance. From reading your views so far, I am assuming you don’t suffer from any of these issues, but if you could step into the shoes of someone that is afflicted with these problems and feel the agony they battle on a daily basis, I doubt you would have the views you do.

I am sure you sin in other areas of your life but that certainly does not mean you lack self-control, it means you’re human. When we ask Christ for forgiveness, depending on our heart/mindset He shows us mercy, forgiveness, empathy and grace, not a lack of respect. I find it confusing that you place a high level of importance on a man being a Christian, yet the views and opinions you have expressed seem to be very different than the way Jesus viewed and interacted with the people of his time. I must be missing something.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

For me, being a virgin in this day and age says a lot about your values and morals as an individual.

It is a great thing you are on this site. There are some great virgin guys : ) Also, there are people who were born and raised without sexual morals but if they recently found religion, they might currently share the same morals and beliefs as a you.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

However, he's not going to know if he's sexually settling for me until we're married so that in this case it's  irrelevant.

You don’t have to have sex to know you’re settling for someone sexually.  People can hide the fact they are settling because they really want something from that person and they fear losing them/it if they admit to settling.  One aspect to settling means you will always want and yearn for something your partner will never be able to give.

For example, if one person needs sex 2x per day but the other needs it 1x per month…someone will be settling if they get married. Or if one person wants a certain type of sex or sexual acts and the other person will not allow it…. Or if a guy is sexually attracted to women with certain features, he can still settle for a totally different type of women. Or if a women is sexually attracted to tall guys, she can still settle for a shorter nice guy… I’ve seen variations of the last one happen a lot.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

And that's fine, there are plenty of women like that in this world. I just happen to not be one of then.

The type of woman you are has nothing to do with the point I was making. My point was to show how non-virgins can give all of themselves.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

There are no actions or words that a guy could say that will make me change my mind or alleviate my concerns in that area if they are not a virgin because once you've lost it, I can't see you as giving me the true 100%.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

The sacredness of sex being between just the two of us as husband and wife exclusively is forever lost and is not something I take lightly, hence why it's a dealbreaker for me.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

This is what I have an issue with and why I have extreme reservation in terms of marrying a non-virgin. 

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

That doesn't make me feel special, and it doesn't make sex seem like something that is intimate and done between two people that love each other,  it makes me feel like I'm another person on his list of people he's slept with and that for me is disgusting and trashy. It's disgusting to think that he's performed such intimate acts on another human being and then "claims" that it's special with me :wacko: I can't physically fathom having sex with someone who isn't my husband to the point where I feel almost sick. I don't understand why people can have sexual desires to engage in activities with people that they aren't married to. That's what I need to get over and frankly someone telling me they love me isn't going to be enough.

You seem to have your mind made up in the first two comments and I wonder why you even made this post?…but then the last two statements seem to be contradictory because it’s a possibility.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

It's like when there is adultery in a relationship, the relationship changes forever and it will never be the same again. The couple has to find a new normal to accommodate for the adultery and help in the process of rebuilding trust. For me I view non-virginity in the same way, I would have to find a new normal to accommodate for the lack of trust I would have to them in that department.

Sorry but you can’t be comparing non-virgins to adulterers. You say actions speak louder than words and that’s what you live by…Yet you’re not looking how different the actions are between an adulterer and a faithful person…let alone what’s going on in their heart

An adulterer is in a monogamous relationship and breaks the vows/trust by literally having sex with another person/people…often times devastating their partner. Knowing this, they still chose to do it anyway. A faithful person who is in a sexually monogamous relationship has stayed loyal, committed and trustworthy to their partner and has not had devastated them by breaking their vows/trust. They could never hurt the person they are with in that way and have not broken any vows.  

There is no comparison or valid logic to what you’re saying because the actions, heart and/or mindset between of an adulterer is completely different. lol :lol:The fact you view non-virgins the same as adulterers makes me wonder why you even made this post lol...this is a pretty a negative, close-minded and one dimensional perspective. Yeah it's probably best you find a virgin and there are definitely guys here that would be into you... have you tried going to churches, church functions and activities?...back when i dated i really liked this one church in particular because they had an amazing singles program that always did fun stuff...like camping, volleyball, softball, picnics, target shooting, bonfires, volunteering in the local communities and a bunch of other stuff. It was good because it gave singles the chance to mingle outside of service

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

I know that you were also in that situation but it suggests to me that you didn't value virginty highly to begin with if you could lose it to someone who's had sex with 60 + people. That may or may not be true but that's how I view it.

I grew up in a highly abusive house and got beat and battered by a full grown man for 16 years and maintaining my virginity up until I was 28 was even harder than going through that. I valued it within myself because I thought it was the right thing to do. In others I viewed it as something that will be between them and God. However, when my views changed I wanted to at least have sex with someone special and not just any girl...So I waited a few years until I found my ex. Like I said before I value the women, not her virginity. The number of partners has nothing to do with valuing my own virginity. It was her amazing qualities that I really liked...and of course I found her physically attractive.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

However I do value virginity in men. It's honestly rare to meet virgin men nowadays (I still haven't met one in real life) so I would value it in that sense too and have much more respect for them.

Well you’re on the right website for finding a virgin man. I know there are several male members in the UK. I think there is a section on the site where you can post your location…That would be a great place for you to look…and maybe send them a friendly cheerio mate…(lol I could not help myself and I know that’s not a common British greeting…or at that is what other Brits have told me) from there hopefully they will pursue you :)

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

By exclusivity I mean that they have not been with any other person sexually but you. There is something special and sacred about that and I believe that it lost when one person is a virgin and the other isn't.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

For me this is what constitutes real intimacy and is the way that God intended it.  Everything else falls short of that mark.

Ok I gotcha you want to be the first and only experience. Well I have said it a few times now and I hope you find a virgin husband…you’re in the right place for it. What is the “something” that you mention? What is it? Where did you get the idea that “it” (whatever you’re referring to) is lost? I am guessing you’re referring to an abstract element of some kind. If a person completes their SO…meaning in every measurable way the SO is satisfied with them, would not change a single thing about them and wants to commit the rest of their life to them…then to that SO nothing is lost but rather found. I struggle to see how anyone could still choose to feel like something is lost when they complete another person. When a person puts the needs of their SO above their own desires, many times that can totally change their personal views on what they thought was important.

Maybe that is one of several methods for experiencing real intimacy but it certainly is not the only way. God could have intended that in a world without sin and injustice but once the fall of man occurred, I don’t think God will have the same standards for imperfect beings. I think Christ set the perfect example for what real love and intimacy is. It was the abstract elements that set Him apart from everyone. His love, empathy, compassion, grace, mercy and forgiveness He showed to sinners/ those in suffering.  

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

The non-virgin brings along with them sexual baggage and the lack of sexual exclusivity to the relationship.

Yeah again this is definitely a case by case basis and not an absolute. Plenty of people have normal and healthy sexual experiences without any baggage. In that case it’s only baggage if the other person makes it a problem. The same thing can apply to virgins who lack emotional exclusivity…it mostly depends on whether or not that person is over their ex and fully committed to their new partner and if that new partner has the qualities/traits to handle things from the past.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

There is always a 3rd option, choose neither. Both involve settling and for me (assuming they are male obviously) they both have qualities that I would find unattractive in a spouse. Like I said before, just because someone is a virgin doesn't make them better but it does make it more likely that they would be (although in this situation that would not be the case for Person A). Person B however makes me doubt that they seriously understand how highly I value sexual intimacy. 

I think you completely missed the point in my hypothetical example, which showed that someone’s actions alone does not determine their ability to give all of themself but rather their heart/mind. In the example I gave, despite the virgin’s actions to remain celibate, she would not be able to give all of herself because she is settling…which is the state of her heart/mind. I did not personally ask how you would view the hypothetical situation because I figured you would automatically think about your deal-barkers and miss the opportunity to see another person's view, which is why I said not to question the details. I was answering your question about what are my deal-breakers.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

For me, I'm not concerned about pleasing him sexually; that's something I'll learn how to do and will be happy to do as his wife and I hope he would be the same with me. What will be lost is the opportunity to learn about each other together and only each other. The sacredness of sex being between just the two of us as husband and wife exclusively is forever lost and is not something I take lightly, hence why it's a dealbreaker for me. He as a non-virgin would be bringing to the relationship information and techniques he's learnt and used on other women.

If two non-virgins or one virgin and non-virgin wtm, they will be able to still learn what each other likes…unless they give exact step by step instructions on what to do and the exact technique…lol and that would be really boring..well at least for me…so unless that is the case, they will have to explore their partner’s body and pay attention to what they like and how they like it. We are not all carbon copies of one another and subsequently will respond differently to different people and things.

On 11/24/2017 at 4:04 PM, BlackRose said:

I've never had a crush or been sexually turned on by another person so I cannot sympathise with any reason a person would give as to why they had sex before or outside of a marriage context - period.

Well that explains pretty much everything.

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