Naturally

Your pleasure = Spouse's responsibility?

20 posts in this topic

Hey guys, I have a few questions that I'm eager to get your opinion on:

1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate?

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

As a woman, every time I felt like I wanted it, I would initiate with my husband. I wouldn't want to "take care" of it myself anymore. Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes?

"Take care of it for you" = handjob or oral or or full sex

If he needed the release say, once a day, I think I could handle it. More than that and we would need to reassess.

*Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this?

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

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2 hours ago, Naturally said:

1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate?

I'd venture to say it's pretty often on average. For most guys, they probably masturbate at least a couple times a week.

 

2 hours ago, Naturally said:

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

As a woman, every time I felt like I wanted it, I would initiate with my husband. I wouldn't want to "take care" of it myself anymore. Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes?

"Take care of it for you" = handjob or oral or or full sex

If he needed the release say, once a day, I think I could handle it. More than that and we would need to reassess.

*Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this?

If a guy preferred to rub one out himself rather than have his wife do it then there is seriously something wrong there. As a wife, she should be offendedthat her husband seems to imply that he doesn't want her physically as much as his own hand. Anyone, man or woman, would feel inadequate or not good enough if their spouse preferred to self-medicate rather than be physically intimate with them. It means that you are not satisfied with your spouse and you have to look elsewhere to please yourself. If that's the case, why even get married at all? A big part of marriage is that you get to have another person to share as a sexual outlet with that you could not have before you married. Because sex in marriage isn't just about your own pleasure, it's also about the pleasure of your spouse. Like any other need in marriage, I believe both people should make every effort within reason to satisfy your spouse sexually. If one person has to look elsewhere for sexual satisfaction, that most likely points to some sort of deeper dysfunction with him or her, not the spouse.

 

2 hours ago, Naturally said:

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

Yes I would. I personally would be devastated if my wife would rather pleasure herself than to turn to me. I would feel like I just don't do it for her and that she isn't attracted to me. I would want to be available to fulfill her sexual needs to the best of my ability.

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2 hours ago, Naturally said:

1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate?

I think this question can be answered many different ways, mainly because it is a completely subjective question. It's also something that cannot be answered in a universal sense but on a person to person basis. I think age, maturity, sexual activity, relationship status, moralistic fiber, and religious level all factor into how often one masturbates.

For example, a 21 year old, non-sexually active, paper Catholic/Christian, is far more likely to masturbate at an exponential rate as opposed to a 35 year old, married, paper Catholic/Christian. If two people of the same age, same relationship status, same religion, same sexual activity were to be asked they wouldn't even have the same answer. 

As a 29 year old, single, Christian, virgin, I masturbate at a far lower rate than my 20 year old self with the exact same circumstances. And most of that came with time, maturity, knowledge, understanding, and patience. On a personal level I masturbate about once a week, and usually in a non-sexual context. Meaning I don't view porn or fantasize about other women. It's all about releasing the tension that builds. 

2 hours ago, Naturally said:

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

Personally, I would be ok with it. My only issue with this is the 'whenever you needed it' part. I think if done with enough frequency(as on a daily basis) it would be hard for my wife not to get tired of it, or to view it as nothing more than a duty as opposed to an act of love. I don't want my wife to feel like it's a chore or something that she must do, that is in no way what love is about. I also feel like this is more of a prelude to sex where the act is part of something more intimate and sacred. 

Now in certain situations where full on sex is not an option, like after childbirth or during her period, then I could see how a handjob/oral is viewed as an act of love and intimacy and would be greatly welcomed. 

The danger in this is having a husband who knows he can expect this of his wife and requests it at an outrageous rate. You both lose sight of how beautiful and binding every act of sex is and you both begin to resent one another. 

2 hours ago, Naturally said:

*Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this?

In this scenario I can actually agree with the guy. There may be times where I'm just not as aroused as I would like to be, and it could be due to stress from my job, stress from children, exhaustion, and any other number of reasons why I wouldn't be able to finish. On those days I would much rather do it myself or just not do it at all to be honest. I also wouldn't want my wife to feel like she wasn't sexually appealing enough or unable to perform the job.

I have actually had friends tell me about similar situations where they weren't able to finish for various reasons, and afterwards their wives felt as if they weren't adequate enough to please them. The issue had nothing to do with them at all, and had everything to do with what the guy was going through. In that instance, I wouldn't want my wife stroking me for 30 minutes trying to get me to finish. I'm sure either her arm would get tired or the friction from all the stroking would begin to hurt. 

2 hours ago, Naturally said:

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

I would find it VERY disrespectful and VERY hurtful with one exception, she was doing it with the intent of my enjoyment. I would love to pleasure my wife every day if possible, but if she wanted to pleasure herself in front of me for my viewing pleasure, why would I say no? I would be ok with it being a 'once in a while' kind of thing, but if she was doing it because I couldn't get the job done then our communication skills need to be greatly worked on. 

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First, I must say you bring up some excellent questions and you also sound like you know yourself very well, which is an excellent thing to have. So good for you :)

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate?

It can vary greatly depending on the guy. Some men do it a few times a day while others maybe do it a few times a week.

 

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

Ok to give a quick answer to this question: YES! Unequivocally YES! I would go so far as to say that almost any man WOULD and SHOULD cherish his wife if she thought like this.

 

Here is my personal insight:

It is paramount not to just give, but how you give. I also think it automatically becomes your responsibility (whether you like it or not) to take care of your spouses needs. You two are together for life so you depend and need each other...but that is just my two cents.

I think a husband and wife should passionately give inside the bedroom and outside. Passionate giving is when you’re excited to give, you LOVE to give, you think about being the best you can be while giving, and you think about how you can give in better ways. That is giving out of love to your spouse and is passionate giving. A loving and caring partner will take the initiative to find out what their partner likes, why they like it, and how they like it…so they can meet their needs.

My ex was the only sexual experience I have ever had. We were together for 3.5 years and I passionately gave to her and she never voluntarily returned any favors. She only cared about her sexual needs and that was it. I would have to ask for my needs every single time or else I would be left high, dry, and sexually frustrated…when you love giving to the person you’re with and they could care less about giving back to you and will completely neglect your needs unless you ask every single time….Yeah that sucks. Trust me! I was so thankful I did not marry her because I would have regretted that for the rest of my life…being viewed and treated like a chore and a job

 

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

As a woman, every time I felt like I wanted it, I would initiate with my husband. I wouldn't want to "take care" of it myself anymore. Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes?

Again every guy is different. These are great questions that definitely need to be discussed before marriage. Personally, I think most guys will not want to do it themselves. I know I sure wont!

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

If he needed the release say, once a day, I think I could handle it. More than that and we would need to reassess.

I think that is great you know your limits and yourself! That is an excellent…so good for you..be sure to always communicate that stuff with anyone of interest because he might need it 3 times or more a day.(Keep in mind some people just have higher hormonal levels coursing through body)

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

*Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this?

Yeah, I too have heard guys say this. Again everyone is different. Personally, when I was with my ex, a caressing handjob felt just as good, if not better than intercourse. Again, not everyone is wired the same. Also, there was 0 comparison...anything felt a million times better when she was doing it, verses "taking care of it myself". I'm also really sensitive down there so I'm super easy to please lol... But I NEVER wanted or had any desire to "take care of business myself", (despite being sexually frustrated) I always wanted her over myself...If ever get married, that will be even more intense as I will be madly in love with my wife :)  and want her a million times more than myself.

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

Well you definitely got the eager part right…as most waiters will be eager lol. The way I see it, if she told me about this before we got married, then I knew ahead of time what her needs are and can’t be offended. In general I think I would be ok with this... I would obviously want to know why and my response/reactions will be dependent on her reason/s. but some guys might get super weird about this and others might not care at all.

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@StarGate SG1

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and experiences!

 

54 minutes ago, StarGate SG1 said:

My ex was the only sexual experience I have ever had. We were together for 3.5 years and I passionately gave to her and she never voluntarily returned any favors. She only cared about her sexual needs and that was it. I would have to ask for my needs every single time or else I would be left high, dry, and sexually frustrated…when you love giving to the person you’re with and they could care less about giving back to you and will completely neglect your needs unless you ask every single time….Yeah that sucks. Trust me! I was so thankful I did not marry her because I would have regretted that for the rest of my life…being viewed and treated like a chore and a Job

 

What I am wondering here now is the following:

Some people say, if the person is a giving person in general and in other aspects of life, the person will be giving in bed, too.

Some people say, that you can´t really know if the person will be giving when it comes to sex unless you actually build a sex life with them. Even the kindest, most giving people in everyday life can be absolute selfish in bed.

What´s your experience there?

I never knew what to believe or how to approach this matter. Because, if my spouse would not care about my needs at all and it turns out I would have to ask every single time for just one thing, this would be quite devastating to me. I consider myself a highly giving person and actually like the thought of giving pleasure almost more than receiving it (Almost! Of course, I´d like to receive pleasure, as well and it would also frustrate me when my spouse apparently does not really care about giving back to me).

I am just wondering if talking about it and experiencing your partner in other life areas would be enough to prevent such a scenario you mentioned you had with your previous girlfriend (which sounded truly heartbreaking and I can imagine that it sucked)!

Thanks again for sharing!

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On 2/20/2017 at 5:22 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Some people say, if the person is a giving person in general and in other aspects of life, the person will be giving in bed, too.

Some people say, that you can´t really know if the person will be giving when it comes to sex unless you actually build a sex life with them. Even the kindest, most giving people in everyday life can be absolute selfish in bed.

What´s your experience there?

You have amazing insights in this and I commend your open-mindedness. That is always nice to see in people :)

If I am reading your question correctly, I can say in many areas of her life, she was extremely kind, thoughtful, honest, and a very caring person. She also passionately gave by singing in a church choir, going on mission trips to grief stricken areas, always passionate about giving to people in need whether in church/outside of church, and always helping and volunteering in her bible study. So you are correct, those types of people can absolutely be selfish/self-absorbed in the bedroom. You won't have any idea until those bedroom doors close and you have regular sex with them.

Now the root-cause to her issue was directly related to her arrogance. In the bedroom, she was extremely cocky about her body. She had some traditional and definitely unique physical traits that she felt made her God’s gift to men. So naturally that was all she cared about sexually. Nothing else mattered if it did not directly glorify what she thought made her so special. (*Side note: Not relevant but for the record those traits did not. She had a lot of partners and not one man ever fought for her or tried to marry her…My two cents, what makes a women a good lover is mainly her attitude, NOT physical. I know it sounds cliché but trust me, it’s true.)

On 2/20/2017 at 5:22 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

I never knew what to believe or how to approach this matter. Because, if my spouse would not care about my needs at all and it turns out I would have to ask every single time for just one thing, this would be quite devastating to me. I consider myself a highly giving person and actually like the thought of giving pleasure almost more than receiving it (Almost! Of course, I´d like to receive pleasure, as well and it would also frustrate me when my spouse apparently does not really care about giving back to me).

Yeah not only did I have to ask for everything, every time, in spite of giving in all area of the relationship…but the worst part of it was HOW she did things…after being asked. It’s like that saying “It’s not what you say but HOW you say it.” this is also true for our actions. Sure she would do them but seeing how bored she was and had 0 desire or care to attempt being good, was a major buzz kill lol. At best, I would get half assed attempts… After a while, you begin to feel cheap when someone treats your needs like a constant, annoying chore, that they don’t enjoy doing. After I realized she would never truly care about giving, sex did not feel that good anymore. Now on a positive note, I definitely don’t regret anything. Just because there were several areas of incompatibility, does not mean someone is a bad person…I just don’t want to make it sound like I’m ex bashing a good person.

The fact you even think and care about being a good giver in the bedroom, means you can be assured that if you have the right attitude that will make you a rockstar wife in all areas of your marriage. I promise :)

 

On 2/20/2017 at 5:22 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

I am just wondering if talking about it and experiencing your partner in other life areas would be enough to prevent such a scenario you mentioned you had with your previous girlfriend (which sounded truly heartbreaking and I can imagine that it sucked)!

I think you can mitigate these risks but not eliminate them. If you’re a waiter, you’re definitely accepting inherent levels of risk, in terms of your future sex life. Especially, if you’re a women. Now for some people, sex is not that important and they can have it or not in a relationship, so it’s less risky for them.

In the case of my ex, there was 0 indication that she was going to be sexually arrogant, only care about receiving, and would only offer half assed attempts at anything that did not benefit her physical pleasure.

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@StarGate SG1 You're right you can mitigate but not eliminate those risks. Sometimes that comes with the territory of waiting. It definitely sounds like it was for the better that you two did not get married. I know I would be miserable if my partner viewed me as a chore, did not even care about being good, and could not have fun doing things i like.

2 hours ago, StarGate SG1 said:

It’s like that saying “It’s not what you say but HOW you say it.” this is also true for our actions.

100% agree with you. I'm like you, passionate in all things that I do and would hope my wife (if i ever get married) is similar. You want someone to do things in all areas of the relationship because they want to not because they have to or feel some sense of misguided obligation.

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate?

This can very greatly depending on the guy and there a lot of things that can factor into this. It could be once a week or 5 times a day.

 

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

If I ever get married, we will both be have the understanding that we will fully satisfy the other person's needs.:)

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes?

Never. If I am choosing my hand over my wife, their is a massive problem.I will choose her hands, not mine lol..God I hope this never happens

 

On 2/19/2017 at 3:22 PM, Naturally said:

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

Hmm if we talked about it before we got married and I knew she would need to do this, then I think I would be fine with it, as long as it was not frequently...and I would need to know why. that would definitely determine how I would feel about it.

 

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5 hours ago, Jake1986 said:

It could be once a week or 5 times a day.

 

:o Yikes! No wonder teenage boys eat so much! It's said it's because they're putting on height and muscle mass but I dunno, probably just needing the energy to keep up with this schedule!

 

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On 2/20/2017 at 10:14 AM, Invincible said:

As a wife, she should be offendedthat her husband seems to imply that he doesn't want her physically as much as his own hand. Anyone, man or woman, would feel inadequate or not good enough if their spouse preferred to self-medicate rather than be physically intimate with them. It means that you are not satisfied with your spouse and you have to look elsewhere to please yourself.

That's the message I'd get.

On 2/20/2017 at 10:14 AM, Invincible said:

I personally would be devastated if my wife would rather pleasure herself than to turn to me. I would feel like I just don't do it for her and that she isn't attracted to me. I would want to be available to fulfill her sexual needs to the best of my ability.

I can understand why a man would feel this way and I think it's on the mark. The only reason I can think of of why I would take care of it myself in a marriage (that's free of any serious issues) is because my husband can't bring me to orgasm. In which case it may be more beneficial to the marriage to talk about it and work on it together.

On 2/20/2017 at 10:27 AM, Jorge said:

I think if done with enough frequency(as on a daily basis) it would be hard for my wife not to get tired of it, or to view it as nothing more than a duty as opposed to an act of love. I don't want my wife to feel like it's a chore or something that she must do, that is in no way what love is about. I also feel like this is more of a prelude to sex where the act is part of something more intimate and sacred. 

I think your wife would appreciate this level of consideration.

On 2/20/2017 at 10:27 AM, Jorge said:

In this scenario I can actually agree with the guy. There may be times where I'm just not as aroused as I would like to be, and it could be due to stress from my job, stress from children, exhaustion, and any other number of reasons why I wouldn't be able to finish. On those days I would much rather do it myself or just not do it at all to be honest.

Interesting. It's quite telling of how skewed information is out there, my perceptions have been formed to believe men are always aroused and always want it. As if they're primitive animals incapable of restraint, exhaustion, choice etc.

On 2/20/2017 at 10:27 AM, Jorge said:

I would find it VERY disrespectful and VERY hurtful with one exception, she was doing it with the intent of my enjoyment. I would love to pleasure my wife every day if possible, but if she wanted to pleasure herself in front of me for my viewing pleasure, why would I say no?

Sounds quite erotic. But as immature as it might sound, I think I'd be too embarrassed to ever do that in front of my husband! 

On 2/21/2017 at 9:30 AM, StarGate SG1 said:

YES! Unequivocally YES! I would go so far as to say that almost any man WOULD and SHOULD cherish his wife if she thought like this.

Aww good to know.

 

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On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Naturally said:

2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome?

I don't think for the purposes of preventing porn/lust intrusion is entirely valid. Certainly, the Bible in  1 Corinthians 7:5 has an element of ensuring sufficient sex to ward of sinful temptation but I'd be careful (and I don't think you intended this) of framing it in a way where porn/lust is only not okay because you have been "taking care" of it; it isn't okay regardless. Though a healthy sexual marriage will help. 

To answer the question, yes, I would welcome the option. But then, who wouldn't? some masochist perhaps...

On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Naturally said:

As a woman, every time I felt like I wanted it, I would initiate with my husband. I wouldn't want to "take care" of it myself anymore. Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes?

I'd feel the same way. Scientifically/bio-chemically masturbation is different from sex. If you're interested to know more I can find the reference. I hope I don't want to masturbate or feel the need to when married. Wouldn't it be terrible to think I'd rather masturbate than be intimate with my spouse? However, I can see myself not initiating even if I felt like it in some circumstances, say, if I know she is terribly stressed/burdened and I don't want to lay this on her (or having to reject me if she feels bad about it).

 

On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Naturally said:

If he needed the release say, once a day, I think I could handle it.

As admirable as this is, I would be concerned that this would turn it into a chore. How long will you be able to gain satisfaction out of this and see it as an act of love? Particularly when you may not be getting direct pleasure/orgasm out of it? I'm assuming since the focus is on taking care of his need, even if you were to have full sex you wouldn't continue it till you orgasmed too??  Then there is the issue of concerns over an imbalance of taking and giving that can crop up: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rediscovering-love/201210/when-your-partner-gives-more-you-can-return 

And unless he has an extremely high sex drive that drives him crazy without daily release (in which case he might need to check that out..) how might this level of servicing make sex "less special"? There would be no joyful waiting and anticipating even till the next day....all that, absence makes the heart grow fonder stuff....Women are recommended to wait 6 weeks after childbirth to have sex. Certainly, she could be giving handjobs and oral sex to tie the husband over but maybe, maybe, I wouldn't mind waiting in anticipation till we can come together in full union again.....it would certainly remind me how much I value it....

On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Naturally said:

*Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this?

This is one reason I generally don't see masturbation as a good thing. You can become desensitised or too programmed to orgasming the specific way that you do it. Communication becomes important but if he sees this situation as a bad thing he should stop masturbating completely. His body/mind should eventually reset. @Invincible has made a strong point against solo sex in marriage. Allow me to explore why even if married, some [male or female] may still value it. Whether these are good reasons is another thing. If you've masturbated for years you've become used to your style of stimulation and you also know what to do for how you want it. If you want a different area touched, pressure, speed, whatever, you do it - you don't need to try and communicate it and hope it is done right. It will probably take an attentive mate and quite some time for them to be able to read you like a book sexually. You also only have to consider yourself and your own needs; you don't need to be concerned with responding physically or otherwise to your partner or their emotions etc. And of course there is absolutely no pressure or opportunity to reciprocate if you wouldn't want to. Solo-ing may be one way for a spouse to decrease the imbalance between giving and taking (see the link above).

On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Naturally said:

3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?

Yes. I would like to know why and hope to resolve those reasons. Does she have trouble reaching orgasm with me and doesn't want to tell me? Does she have trouble reaching orgasm in general and having me there hoping and trying to get her there is just creating some kind of guilt of not getting there which is making it even harder for her to get there [is masturbation more relaxing than the pressure of sex]? Does she feel guilty for needing so much attention to reach orgasm in comparison to me? Is she not comfortable giving directions? Am I not taking them? Is she sexually unfulfilled? So many questions that I'd like to have answered....

Interesting statistic: 40% of "taken" men masturbate compared to 30% for women. (http://www.yourtango.com/2015276231/real-reason-women-prefer-masturbation-over-sex-with-men)

20 hours ago, Naturally said:
On 2/20/2017 at 10:27 AM, Jorge said:

I would find it VERY disrespectful and VERY hurtful with one exception, she was doing it with the intent of my enjoyment. I would love to pleasure my wife every day if possible, but if she wanted to pleasure herself in front of me for my viewing pleasure, why would I say no?

Sounds quite erotic. But as immature as it might sound, I think I'd be too embarrassed to ever do that in front of my husband! 

If there was a legitimate reason for her needing to masturbate, and isn't comfortable doing it infront of her husband (as this might also defeat the reason for masturbating in the first place) there are other ways to incorporate it into a mutual sex life if they introduce some D/s elements. He could give her some things she needs to complete within a certain time frame - could be anything really, run 2 kilometers, prepare dinner naked, and in that could be the task of pleasuring herself "for the maintenance of her health". If they want to get more specific he could specify a location (shower, bath, bedroom), maybe she gets access to special toys/food/candle whatever, maybe she needs to report/confess after the act or ask for permission in the first place. Just some thoughts...

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22 hours ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

I don't think for the purposes of preventing porn/lust intrusion is entirely valid. Certainly, the Bible in  1 Corinthians 7:5 has an element of ensuring sufficient sex to ward of sinful temptation but I'd be careful (and I don't think you intended this) of framing it in a way where porn/lust is only not okay because you have been "taking care" of it; it isn't okay regardless. Though a healthy sexual marriage will help. 

Agree. I'm against it not just in the cases of masturbation but in any area of marriage.

22 hours ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Scientifically/bio-chemically masturbation is different from sex

I don't know much about it but I assume the 'bonding hormone' oxytocin isn't released in masturbation and is in sex so could be more satisfying to the primitive part of our brains that want to copulate and bonding may be the best way to do that.

22 hours ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

As admirable as this is, I would be concerned that this would turn it into a chore. How long will you be able to gain satisfaction out of this and see it as an act of love? Particularly when you may not be getting direct pleasure/orgasm out of it? I'm assuming since the focus is on taking care of his need, even if you were to have full sex you wouldn't continue it till you orgasmed too??  

Upon further consideration I think you may be right. After a few months the novelty might wear off and risks feeling like a chore.

 

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17 minutes ago, Naturally said:

I don't know much about it but I assume the 'bonding hormone' oxytocin isn't released in masturbation and is in sex so could be more satisfying to the primitive part of our brains that want to copulate and bonding may be the best way to do that.

Oh no! Bonding hormones are still released (norepinephrine, oxytocin, vasopressin)! The problem is that the bonding doesn't occur with one's marital partner but to other things....

Here is the reference I was referring to, even found the original journal (which with your medical background I'm sure you'll feel right at home with). Prolactin is 4x greater after orgasm from intercourse than masturbation and suggest greater satiety: http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/Brody-2006-prolactin-bp.pdf Just one example of how masturbation and partner sex are different....

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On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

You have amazing insights in this and I commend your open-mindedness. That is always nice to see in people :)

 

Thank you so much! I´m just a lifelong learner interested in opinions and experiences from other people ^_^

I appreciate your openness and willingness to share your thoughts and insights here.

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

If I am reading your question correctly, I can say in many areas of her life, she was extremely kind, thoughtful, honest, and a very caring person. She also passionately gave by singing in a church choir, going on mission trips to grief stricken areas, always passionate about giving to people in need whether in church/outside of church, and always helping and volunteering in her bible study. So you are correct, those types of people can absolutely be selfish/self-absorbed in the bedroom. You won't have any idea until those bedroom doors close and you have regular sex with them.

Now the root-cause to her issue was directly related to her arrogance. In the bedroom, she was extremely cocky about her body. She had some traditional and definitely unique physical traits that she felt made her God’s gift to men. So naturally that was all she cared about sexually. Nothing else mattered if it did not directly glorify what she thought made her so special. (*Side note: Not relevant but for the record those traits did not. She had a lot of partners and not one man ever fought for her or tried to marry her…My two cents, what makes a women a good lover is mainly her attitude, NOT physical. I know it sounds cliché but trust me, it’s true.)

 

Yes, you are reading my question correctly! :)

Very interesting! Did you ever talk with her about this issue (that you would like to get more attention for your needs etc.) outside of bed? Or was it always only "in the moment" when you confronted her with a "wish" and then she proceeded to do it, but with an unpleasant attitude like you mentioned? I mean, did you ever had talks abou sex? And if so, what did she had to say about that? Or was the "God´s gift to men" the only reason she ever mentioned?

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

Yeah not only did I have to ask for everything, every time, in spite of giving in all area of the relationship…but the worst part of it was HOW she did things…after being asked. It’s like that saying “It’s not what you say but HOW you say it.” this is also true for our actions.

 

100 % agreed. It´s not what you say, but how you say it...

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

Just because there were several areas of incompatibility, does not mean someone is a bad person…I just don’t want to make it sound like I’m ex bashing a good Person.

 

Sure. No worries, to me you didn´t sound like ex bashing.

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

The fact you even think and care about being a good giver in the bedroom, means you can be assured that if you have the right attitude that will make you a rockstar wife in all areas of your marriage. I promise :)

 

Thanks, that´s heartening. But well....you also consider yourself to be a good and passionate giver...and it still didn´t work out. So I am actually still worried to find out that my man is an absolute asshole in bed....

To me it sounds so paradox, as well. A kind and loving and caring person and then so selfish and careless in bed only focusing on one´s own needs.

Did you ever hear about a reversed case? When the person is very selfish, arrogant, careless, inconsiderate [insert any negative trait you like] in every day life and other areas in life, but is absolutely a passionate, good giver in bed?

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

You won't have any idea until those bedroom doors close and you have regular sex with them.

In the case of my ex, there was 0 indication that she was going to be sexually arrogant, only care about receiving, and would only offer half assed attempts at anything that did not benefit her physical pleasure.

 

Not the answer I hoped for, but thanks for your honesty :lol:

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:15 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

I think you can mitigate these risks but not eliminate them. If you’re a waiter, you’re definitely accepting inherent levels of risk, in terms of your future sex life. Especially, if you’re a women.

And how do you think you can best mitigate these risks?

Why would you personally be even okay with taking these risks by (maybe) waiting til marriage the next time?

Why especially for women? What about the waiting men? Where is the difference here?

 

Also can I ask you another question a bit out of context? You don´t have to answer, if it´s too personal or if you don´t want to, of course. I am wondering about your ex girlfriend...

She seemed very religious and very engaged in church. I mean, bible studies, mission trips, church choir. She even termed body parts of her "God´s gift to men". One might think, that a person like her would be interested in waiting until marriage to do the deed. Do you know why she didn´t want to wait? Was waiting EVER in the talks?

I am not negatively judging here (my waiting isn´t motivated by religion). I guess, I am just wondering and always have a bit of trouble understanding those very religiously involved people, but still they don´t find waiting worthwile and desirable.

 

Thanks for the talk! ^_^

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On 2/24/2017 at 11:56 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Oh no! Bonding hormones are still released (norepinephrine, oxytocin, vasopressin)! The problem is that the bonding doesn't occur with one's marital partner but to other things....

Here is the reference I was referring to, even found the original journal (which with your medical background I'm sure you'll feel right at home with). Prolactin is 4x greater after orgasm from intercourse than masturbation and suggest greater satiety: http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/Brody-2006-prolactin-bp.pdf Just one example of how masturbation and partner sex are different....

Really interesting. It would be interesting to see this study performed on men (women?) who actually prefer masturbation to sex (due to conditioning their bodies to respond to self-gratification) and see whether the prolactin effect is similar to those preferring PIV.

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3 hours ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

I am not negatively judging here (my waiting isn´t motivated by religion). I guess, I am just wondering and always have a bit of trouble understanding those very religiously involved people, but still they don´t find waiting worthwile and desirable.

It is a very sad issue. Check out this article

 Thom Rainer in his book The Bridger Generation notes that believers are no longer Bible-based.  He has made the following chart to illustrate this:

Builders (born 1927-1945) – 65 percent Bible-based    believers
Boomers (born 1946-1964) – 35 percent Bible-based believers
Busters (born 1965-1983) – 16 percent Bible-based believers
Bridgers (born 1984 or later) – 4 percent Bible-based believers

This is alarming!  However, it is also alarming that few believers today hold a biblical worldview. The pollster, George Barna notes that only 7 percent of Protestants hold a biblical worldview.  Non-denominational Protestant churches score only a little better at 13 percent. These figures are distressing and bewildering.  Barna says, “The primary reason that people do not act like Jesus is because they do not think like Jesus.”

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@'tis the Bearded One

Thanks for the article.

If you go to bible studies, though (like the ex girlfriend, for example), doesn´t it mean that you are looking into the subject and the Bible? How can you go to bible studies and not live a bible-based life (or at least make an effort to do so)? Isn´t that a contradiction? I think, if someone goes to bible studies (voluntary and not forced by someone else), they are actually interested in the Bible, aren´t they?

The article talks about how Christians aren´t that interested anymore in church service, and serious prayer and the Bible. But the girlfriend seemed like the exact opposite. Very involved, even doing mission trips!

I also know some people who are very involved in church, some even taking leaderships in church. Yet, they would never wait and think it is not desirable. I have trouble understanding that, honestly. Some say, that it is purely Interpretation and that nowhere in the Bible it is clearly stated that you should wait until marriage to have sex. So they don´t.

This whole topic reminds me of this video.

It is meant to be comedy and not serious, but I think, it has a lot of truth in it, especially for the younger generation.

 

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On 2/27/2017 at 5:14 AM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

This whole topic reminds me of this video.

:lol: I know that video...

You'd have to look at how in-depth those Bible studies are and if they are touching on those heavy issues. Unfortunately, not everyone teaches (or interprets) the Bible correctly. Certainly, you would expect someone interested in going to Bible studies to live what they learn but sadly there is a difference between knowing what is right and doing it. You don't need to be particularly spiritual or committed to go on mission trips. It can be something done more to do with friends/travel than doing hard work for the service of others. 

If you have someone who professes to believe in the Bible but doesn't have a moral problem with pre-marital sex, maybe study yourself into this topic and ask for a Bible study on it :D See how it goes...hehehe

I don't know how many church experiences you have had but I notice the different levels of Bible content in sermons across and within denominations. This can be very stark sometimes. Some independent seventh-day adventist churches I've been too most of the sermon is quoting Bible verses while in the mainstream it can be far fewer. Not that quantity matters but it can be an indicator of where the emphasis lies. In some circles you have a Bible camp and you are sitting in sermons/workshops hour after hour [your butt gets sooo sore] and in others you have far less and don't know what to do with all the free time! 

As a practical example, I help run the sabbath school youth group in my church. The previous week I explored some of the Bible verses that describe the glory and power of God as a bit of a reminder who we really are approaching in prayer. The next week I explored it in a more practical basis of how should that influence how we pray to God: are we uber casual, giving a "shout out" to our "bro" in heaven - and at what point do we lose out in not showing sufficient respect and reverence; how do we balance who ALMIGHTY GOD is with His desire for a deeply personal friendship with us? - are we too formal/pompous (particularly in public prayers trying to one-up each other on how many titles and adjectives we can use in addressing God) - are they too long [in church] - are we adulterating prayer with sermonizing - what should our posture be during prayer ie slouching around, sit, stand, kneel, prostrate. We explored that we can pray to God whenever in whatever position but scripture does indicate that a kneeling or prostrate position should be taken when praying in worship [public or private]. My church doesn't kneel for every prayer during the worship service and I don't really like it. [I'm surprisingly conservative in some ways ;)] In youth group we sit. I asked the question, should we start kneeling when we pray in youth group? None of them expressed supported for the notion. None of them had a Bible based reason for why not (granted there were only 5; granted they didn't have the opportunity to conduct their own study on it). One under 20 spouted a knee problem. 1st I've heard of it! We've got 70 year olds kneeling to pray and you spritely person can't?? Another said that they felt fine praying with God sitting (so why bother kneeling?). At our closing prayer my fellow leader and myself were the only ones kneeling :(. Afterwards, I discussed it a little with the team leader and my surprise at how the lesson turned out. To me, unless you can present a Bible-based argument why you shouldn't, your feelings on an issue are largely irrelevant. If you have discovered how GOD wants to be worshiped (and this can extend to other things such as music) who are you to effectively say "Well, God might like it this way (and let's face it, as God He would have his reasons...right?), but I prefer to worship God my way so He'll just have to deal". Doesn't that defeat the entire point of worship? I wouldn't give a friend chocolate, knowing that they don't like chocolate, simply because I like chocolate [unless it's for their own good and I'm giving them some tough love but it's pretty arrogant to have such an attitude towards God...].

How did this end up in a thread about masturbation and handjobs?? :lol: If you have more questions [or any Bible questions in general] don't hesitate to PM me! :D 

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On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Did you ever talk with her about this issue (that you would like to get more attention for your needs etc.)

Yes, later on in the relationship I also discussed the issue... at appropriate times. I mentioned the absence of passionate giving and why I can’t move forward. I feel that an arrogant person will care too much about them self… and might not be able to see what is important to the other person and that is why she could not change. Or perhaps she did not want to change and needs a person that will only stroke her ego.

 

It’s like love. You can’t force someone to love you by talking about it. They have to feel it on their own. Same thing for passionately giving. Which she did love me and she was a loving, caring, and a passionately giving person in other areas of her life. She was not compatible for me but is for someone else.

 

I have no idea if this makes any sense I could explain this better IRL Sorry that’s the best I can do.

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

did you ever had talks abou sex?

 

I communicated verbally/written format (i.e texting….I tried to cover all bases) verbatim…hundreds of times what I like (which was nothing crazy) and the one thing I don’t like but I’m flexible on. It should never get to that point, if it does, there’s a problem/s.

 

Here is one thing I learned. For the most part, you should really only communicate this stuff if your partner is trying (and for the right reasons) but they just are not quite getting it right…Then you can give them helpful pointers. Your partner should be excited to implement the suggestions…You should not have to tell them more than a few times. 

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

And if so, what did she had to say about that?

 

Off the top of my head, she never had much of anything to say.

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Did you ever hear about a reversed case? When the person is very selfish, arrogant, careless, inconsiderate [insert any negative trait you like] in every day life and other areas in life, but is absolutely a passionate, good giver in bed?

Yes, it was called high school and a little of college lol

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

And how do you think you can best mitigate these risks?

For me I don’t know for sure…just have ideas. Sorry. Also some people might be really excited but don’t express it outwardly….so you really have to know the person.  

For example, you can talk about the things you would like to receive and give with your husband. If he lights up with excitement and talks about how he would like to give the things you mentioned to a wife and would have fun receiving the things you mention, then I would imagine you would be ok…If just talks about the stuff he wants that benefit him and 0 focus is on the women, you might want to proceed with caution. 

Let’s say you’re talking about getting married…you can talk to him about passionate giving and what it means to you and you could mention…you don’t want to feel like a chore you have to get over with so it’s important that we both enjoy each other’s needs….et cetera …lol not verbatim like this but you get the idea.

In general I don’t think this is something women have to worry about as much…I think WTM guys on average are eager to please.

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Why would you personally be even okay with taking these risks by (maybe) waiting til marriage the next time?

If she was a waiter, I’m confident she will not be anywhere near the same…As I believe my situation was quite rare. I will also tell her everything and why it ended…doing that means I have confidence and trust in her.

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Why especially for women?

On average, there seems to be more factors that can play into their complete satisfaction.

Yes, love plays a critical role but in a lot of cases, it certainly is not enough for some women.

Anyway, if a woman is a virgin, she has not had a chance to get to know her body+mind, while in a relationship with a man. Without that experience, some(by no means all) WTM virgins can’t say for certain what factors they will need to be completely satisfied.

However, I would venture to guess that a portion of WTM women are not greatly concerned about their sexual satisfaction, as they value the emotional and/or spiritual components more.

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

What about the waiting men?

Personally, I think men are way easier to sexually satisfy. This might sound contrary to popular belief but I think men need emotional/mental qualities from a women to be sexually satisfied.

I think many guys (especially waiters) need their SO’s to be into the sexual things they like and to care about it…If a women can do that, she’s mainly done….he will be one happy camper.

Now, don’t confuse looks with pleasure. Sure there are guys that want what they think is attractive…like a trophy wife/GF. But that is often a form of bragging, which does not equate to sexual satisfaction.

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

She even termed body parts of her "God´s gift to men".

Sorry if I was not clear, she never said "God´s gift to men". I said that here to try and properly illustrate her attitude/behavior…without mentioning graphic details of things she would actually say/do.

 

On 2/25/2017 at 3:06 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Do you know why she didn´t want to wait? Was waiting EVER in the talks?

I am not negatively judging here (my waiting isn´t motivated by religion). I guess, I am just wondering and always have a bit of trouble understanding those very religiously involved people, but still they don´t find waiting worthwile and desirable.

 

Not sure if you’re referring to waiting before she met me or while we were together…so ill just answer both. 

Waiting before me:

She waited until she was a certain age and valued elements to it. However, when she was not married by a certain point, she accepted things were not going to happen how she dreamed. So figured she might as well have fun in other ways. 

Waiting while dating me:

She was not a waiter by the time she met me and no it was not in the talks…I think she actually could WTM but she would need to know she’s getting married and fast lol.

You’re totally fine. I think I understand what you mean and yes, it can be confusing. The “very religiously involved” can have very different views regarding their beliefs. I knew some that thought consuming alcohol was bad, while other thought it was ok…Some thought homosexuality was bad, others did not, some thought dancing is wrong, others did not....Many different ways they can interpret and develop differing beliefs.

 

 

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On 2/28/2017 at 5:58 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Unfortunately, not everyone teaches (or interprets) the Bible correctly.

This also includes you

On 2/28/2017 at 5:58 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Certainly, you would expect someone interested in going to Bible studies to live what they learn but sadly there is a difference between knowing what is right and doing it. You don't need to be particularly spiritual or committed to go on mission trips. It can be something done more to do with friends/travel than doing hard work for the service of others. 

If you have someone who professes to believe in the Bible but doesn't have a moral problem with pre-marital sex, maybe study yourself into this topic and ask for a Bible study on it :D See how it goes...hehehe

This is not the first thread where you have undermined and devalued the contributions of a women. Just because she does not believe in your biblical interpretations and follow your moral compass, does not mean you diminish her spirituality, services, commitment to missions, and her relationship with God. Please, don't do this again.

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On 3/4/2017 at 11:28 AM, StarGate SG1 said:

 

On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Unfortunately, not everyone teaches (or interprets) the Bible correctly.

This also includes you

Could be. I try my best not to be but I'm only human and I don't claim my expositions to be God-breathed. Unless you are content with leveling such an accusation without even indicating where or why I am wrong, may I suggest creating a topic in the Religion subforum? Available here: http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/forum/27-religious-topics/ At the moment I'm struggling to keep up with the content I want to post but I'll try and get around to it eventually. 

 

On 3/4/2017 at 11:28 AM, StarGate SG1 said:
On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Certainly, you would expect someone interested in going to Bible studies to live what they learn but sadly there is a difference between knowing what is right and doing it. You don't need to be particularly spiritual or committed to go on mission trips. It can be something done more to do with friends/travel than doing hard work for the service of others. 

If you have someone who professes to believe in the Bible but doesn't have a moral problem with pre-marital sex, maybe study yourself into this topic and ask for a Bible study on it :D See how it goes...hehehe

This is not the first thread where you have undermined and devalued the contributions of a women. Just because she does not believe in your biblical interpretations and follow your moral compass, does not mean you diminish her spirituality, services, commitment to missions, and her relationship with God. Please, don't do this again.

I haven't undermined or devalued anyone's contributions *in this thread at least*, woman or man! I didn't refer to anyone in particular nor to your ex-girlfriend in the part you take issue with. I didn't comment at all on the merit of non-spiritually committed people going on mission trips (or other contributions to church/God), let alone that of your ex-girlfriend. Nor did I comment on the quality of the Bible studies that your ex went to  or whatever her reaction may have been to her exposure to the *truth* which may or may not have been taught there. As I stated, in response to @WakeUp&BeAwesome question of " How can you go to bible studies and not live a bible-based life (or at least make an effort to do so)? Isn´t that a contradiction? I think, if someone goes to bible studies (voluntary and not forced by someone else), they are actually interested in the Bible, aren´t they?": " You'd have to look at how in-depth those Bible studies are and if they are touching on those heavy issues. Unfortunately, not everyone teaches (or interprets) the Bible correctly. Certainly, you would expect...

The fact is, you don't need to be particularly spiritual to go on mission trips, sing in a choir etc etc. That doesn't mean that whoever goes on mission trips etc is not spiritually committed etc. 

Please don't jump into conclusions.

 

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