Naturally

Virgin Therapists: What would you do?

55 posts in this topic

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

Your questions are wildly unrealistic. There is no way the average man/women per this scenario can ever tell an employer anything similar to what you have suggested. As I stated in the last response, that would be career suicide. That is not how the real world works.

Agree to disagree. If it was indeed an optional project and she is as valued as you assert she I don't see the problem with giving her 12 hours (or even 1) to think it through if she did not proactively apply for the position. 

 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:
On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Sure, but this raises the question: who is valued more highly in my wife's life: me (her husband) or her workplace?

 This question has no relevance to appreciating/respecting Jane for her talents,

Adam can appreciate Jane's talents without making their use in the workplace more important than their marriage. 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

This question has no relevance to appreciating/respecting Jane for her talents, which I had to mention bc the previous comment completely devalued her by saying she is essentially just making herself busy.

I didn't state she was just making herself busy. It was a general question. But on the stated assumptions that the extra work project was not mandatory, was not essential to keeping her job, was not necessary to meet financial needs of the marriage, taking on the project is a CHOICE regardless of the quality of her talents or not. Fact is people do choose to make themselves too busy to properly invest in their marriage be it unnecessarily prioritizing kids or the husband/wife working extra hours so they spent less time at home with a nagging spouse/conflict situation or whatever. If I unilaterally choose to make myself so busy that I cannot appropriately invest in the marriage (and my spouse reasonably objects) I consider that unacceptable. 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

Just because she is talented, does mean she values her work over her husband.

No one is saying that...But having talents isn't a good reason to neglect a marriage. 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

Again, this is getting very irrelevant b\c Adam never asked this question and it lacks confidence/maturity

A mature, confident husband understands/or:

  •       Supports his wife during hard times, even if he can’t get anything in return
  •      The meaning of sacrifice and life is not always fair, balanced, and equal
  •      Does not compare himself to things in his wife’s life
  •      During times of absence, he still knows he’s #1 in his wife’s heart·        

And we can consider how long he will have that confidence and not compare the value his wife places on their life together when she continues to unreasonably prioritise other things and fails to show a minimum of affection and consideration. Actions speak louder than words. 

But you raise an interesting side issue. Do we treat and expect our spouses to act and respond like the "perfect", mature, confident, etc spouse (which, in my view, is a product of a good track record of a healthy happy marriage - which if Adam's and Jane's was, we wouldn't have this scenario...) and blame them when they don't live up to our standard or do we treat them for where they are, recognising that it takes time for both to grow and flourish into a good spouse?

 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

All the more reason for her to show Adam that her work is not the problem but rather Adam’s lack of confidence and maturity, when encountering real world challenges.

Would you say the same thing if Adam and Jane had children in the home?

 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:
On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Certainly to the immature part. We don't want a transactional marriage. My point was that if Jane is absolutely outside the standard of passionate giving during the two months then there would be no need/expectation of her "compensating"/restoring for the 2 month's neglect. The expectations from her would be exactly the same as just before she took the project.

I guess for a second there I was trying to look at the relationship from a semi-mature perspective..i.e

If Adam acted like a confident mature husband, when handling this problem…Jane would appreciate the sacrifice he made for her and express her gratitude in a loving way. Nobody would have the thoughts of compensating, debt, restitution or any other immature spin.  

You are making expectations as to Jane's behaviour. In regard to "If Adam acted...": can she only express gratitude when Adam sacrifices cheerfully and willingly? But you are inadvertently making my point, if Jane feels that she has not been living up to the standard of giving passionately then she will aim to heal whatever damage that may have caused by expressing her gratitude at least afterwards (though ideally during). While some of the terms like debt and compensation are insufficient descriptors, I thought I was making myself sufficiently clear. The need for putting in some extra effort (even if it's a "Oh, I missed you so much" after returning from a vacation) after a period of disconnection (whatever the cause) isn't "immature spin". If you expect and treat your relationship to be at the same point after a period of disconnection as it was before it, it will deteriorate with each instance of disconnection. Imagine a soldier coming home from deployment and him (or his wife) treating his wife (or her husband) as if he had never even left. Is this such an outlandish concept??

 

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:
On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Nothing in the scenario indicates that she has responded in such a way.

That’s because the actual scenario ended while they were still fighting.

Let me rephrase that: There is no indication whatsoever that Jane intended to respond in such a way. If she did, one would expect her to communicate that to Adam, which should go a ways to mending the scenario because she would be at least acknowledging Adam's sacrifice and validating the relationship.

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:
On 3/1/2017 at 10:58 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Nothing indicates that she sees a need to temporarily re/over-invest in the relationship to restore the rift caused by the 2 months.

Again, what you’re saying is not relevant to me. Again, the way I see it anything regarding her behavior is not valid:

1)      18 hour days, 4/5 hours of sleep, and high stress levels, under these conditions, you can’t have the same expectations for your spouse. They can barely think at this point.

Which brings up the point of when would a loving husband step in and stop her before she has a mental breakdown, but that is a different issue we don't need to discuss here.

The temporary overinvesting would occur after the 2 months at which point she shouldn't be having those 18 hour days..........But even so, on the basis that it is her choice to do the project she is responsible for her absence/neglect/whateveryouwanttocallit. If I drink, climb into a car and drive into somebody because I'm too intoxicated, my intoxication isn't an excuse for avoiding responsibility/liability. If I'm a chronic gambler but I can control it as long as I don't drink and I choose to drink and end up gamble away a whole heap of money, restoring that money is my responsibility because I chose to drink in the first place. You are treating her like she has some entitlement to be unaccountable to the consequences of her choices! Which really only works if you are arguing her actions were involuntary - as in without will or conscious control - and not reasonably predictable....

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

 2) Adam caused the 2 month rift/conflict. He should consider himself damn lucky she pretended like nothing happened lol:D.     

*stunned silence*

On 3/2/2017 at 0:04 PM, StarGate SG1 said:

A)    I never had the thoughts you mentioned, when my ex was in a hardship. Nor would I ever imagine doing that to her/a wife. My only focus was supporting her and helping her get through it.

Good for you. But merely because it worked for you then in that relationship doesn't mean that a spouse in another can expect the same. Jane and Adam's relationship might have been far more touch and go and problematic. You can't expect the same responses reasonable in a healthy union in an unhealthy one.  

On 3/5/2017 at 6:41 PM, Naturally said:

If I were in Jane's position, I would want my husband to tell me of his feelings of neglect, once. After that one time, despite being unbearably busy, I'm not going to forget so there's no need to tell me a second time. Sure, if you ask me to pick up a bottle of milk during this stressful time, It's likely I'll forget. But if you tell your wife you're feeling neglected, she won't forget. A woman won't forget a feeling. If she tells you she did, she's lying. A woman will work faster to try and get home a half hour earlier for you, a woman will be watching your body language to see how disappointed you are in her that day, a woman will be grading the coldness of your kiss goodbye as she drives to work in the morning, a woman will be thinking "I know, I know" in her head as she's frantically working at home on her project and you innocuously walk past, a woman will register every single passive aggressive word you say over dinner and use it to assess how angry you are. Women are very intuitive and they are self-preservationists. A wife might not know what she's doing wrong but she absolutely knows that her husband is not happy. If a wife made no effort to make things better after her husband told her of his feelings, then she knows he is still upset with her. Even when she disingenuously asks "what's wrong?" she absolutely knows what's wrong. So, there is no reason for Adam to be berating Jane with his feelings. JANE KNOWS.

Right :D Only once. I'll have to try and remember that! If I was in Adam's position and I caught on to the fact that this was going through Jane's mind, I would be happy to put her mind at ease and tell her to focus on her job and not worry about me for now. Communication is key :) 

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18 hours ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Right :D Only once. I'll have to try and remember that! If I was in Adam's position and I caught on to the fact that this was going through Jane's mind, I would be happy to put her mind at ease and tell her to focus on her job and not worry about me for now. Communication is key :) 

Really? so just knowing her state of mind would be enough for you to be understanding? wow, communication really is key.

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1 hour ago, Naturally said:

Really? so just knowing her state of mind would be enough for you to be understanding? wow, communication really is key.

Yep.But if it stretches out too long then it will need to be addressed. At some point her not acting out her state of mind into reality undermines the genuineness of that state of mind. At some point you will invariably start to feel the effects of neglect even if you believe your partner has a mindset of wanting to please you/invest in the relationship but just doesn't actually get around to doing it...

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2 hours ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Yep.But if it stretches out too long then it will need to be addressed. At some point her not acting out her state of mind into reality undermines the genuineness of that state of mind. At some point you will invariably start to feel the effects of neglect even if you believe your partner has a mindset of wanting to please you/invest in the relationship but just doesn't actually get around to doing it...

That's understandable. 

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