Bette

How should I deal with the people who try to convince me that waiting is stupid?

15 posts in this topic

Considering the fact that I'm in college, it's kindof a  given that sex is a common topic of discussion. Meaning, I regularly have to divulge that I'm a virgin and waiting unless I want to lie. It's become equally common that my "friends", upon learning of my stance, try to convince me that I'm an absolute moron. They seem to consider my primary reason, my religion, not worth arguing over and they just discount it. When I say something around the lines of "I just want to save myself for my husband" they use that stupid car analogy. You know, the "You wouldn't buy a car without test driving it, so why would you marry someone without 'test driving' them?"

Any counter-argument beyond that, they ignore. Is there a good way to deal with that or to shut them down?

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You need new friends. I don't know what you mean when you say regularly have to divulge that you're a virgin. You don't have to tell anyone anything you don't want to, let alone be obligated to defend your choices. Real friends do not make you feel "stupid" or look down on you for your personal choices, rather they should respect and encourage you in them. I know how tough it is to let go of long time friends, but they are NOT your friends. Trust me, you will feel a lot better when they are out of your life. It is better to be alone than to have toxic people constantly bringing you down. Anyone who uses the stupid car analogy don't think of people as people, they think of them as objects. That should be a big red flag right there.

You shouldn't have to argue with them in the first place because it's none of their business. They already made it clear they think less of your choice anyways. The best way to deal with it is to drop them out of your life and find friends who will support your choice.

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I agree with Vince. That was a good point about the "car analogy" viewing people as objects. People have feelings and emotions, cars do not. I think a lot of people are against waiters  because they (despite what they say) know their lifestyles are bad and waiters show that there is an alternative.

Also, it would be best to have friends that aren't bringing up sexual matters all the time. People are influenced by the friends they have so it is wise to choose good friends! The only morons here are your "friends".

There are plenty of arguments to be made for waiting. You could recite them all day long but it wouldn't change a thing with them. They have already insulted you and discounted you. They don't respect you or your opinion. If someone sincerely asked you about your stance, then you could have a conversation with them about it. But it sounds like they are not interested in doing that. I think this is one of those cases that is akin to "throwing pearls before swine". Wisdom will only be appreciated by those who are seeking it in the first place.

So, in short- you need true friends. Perhaps you could see if there are some religious groups on your campus perhaps.

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Hi Bette,

You deal with these people by not giving them a say. I'm a big fan of not divulging information that is not of anyone's business. BUT at the same time, I've been in your situation and understand the desire to not appear obnoxiously prudish, secretive, or disagreeable when you're trying to fit in and make friends.

The argument can be made that you shouldn't be around people like that and you should defend your belief and put people in their place when they disagree with you, yes... or you could just get along with people. The truth is, you're going to need to be around people like that; people who disagree with your choices. Whether you like it or not, appearing to "fit in" is important in our society - especially in your career where making connections with all types of people opens up a myriad of doors for you.

The challenge is to associate with people who share different principles to you and not letting their principles rub off on you. The best way to do this is to be a politician - keep to less contentious topics and when the topic of virginity comes up, skillfully dodge the question with responses such as "I'm still settling in and haven't found anyone here I'm interested in" or "I'm in a kind of long-distance relationship, it's complicated". My advice is to keep your answers short and vague, it doesn't invite a lot of questions. 

For these "friends" that already know your stance, just appease them by saying "good point" or "I'll see how I go this year". There's no reason to be combative over an issue that has nothing to do with them in the first place, and there's no reason to cut off a "friend" just because you disagree on one issue. Find commonalities and struture your conversations around them.

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First, you don't have to tell people. Just dating partners may need to know this at the appropriate time but you don't have to make it a standard identifying trait. "Hello, my name is Bette and I'm a virgin"

For the situations in which people already know. Be bold about it. Don't act shy and meek and weak about it as if there is something wrong with you. Know that they want to shame you into living the types of lives they live. Probably lots of drinking and casual sex. The more stern, bold and set in stone you act the more they'll have to back down and just accept you (or as the above poster stated) get new friends.

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Some good points have been made here. I'm going to try to provide an alternative view (because I like running against the grain).

Waiting for marriage is an important part of your life and an integral part of who you are. While you should never feel obligated to divulge personal information, I don't think you should hide it either, as if who you are is something to be ashamed of. Be proud of your decision to wait. Have an attitude of, "This is me; take it or leave it." It's so liberating to not have to care what anybody thinks of you.

I also think it's important to be able to talk to others about our opinions and convictions. Really, close friends ought to be clued in on each others' personal lives, in order to truly be friends to each other. I hide nothing from my friends; I'm an open book. Additionally, it will be good for you to think through your conviction so that you can reasonably explain it. There may be moments in the future when you're not thinking totally rationally and you need to remind yourself, "Wait, why can't I have sex with this person right now?" (It's happened to me). Or perhaps some guy pressures you (unfortunately, it happens all too often). If you find you can't reasonably explain it, you may need to do some soul searching or ask other waiters for their thoughts.

Lastly, I don't think cutting out anyone who disagrees with you, only associating with like-minded individuals, is the best way to live a well-rounded life. That is such a closed-minded way to live. However, respect is also key in any friendship. If they will not respect your convictions, then it may be time to move on. One of my best friends is an atheist, yet he and I have had a close friendship for eleven years. We don't agree on everything, but we have a mutual respect for each others' views and convictions.

Take the time to think through your decision to wait so that you can explain it. Then talk about it openly when the topic arises. It shouldn't become an argument or a debate, but merely a discussion. A true friend will respect your views, and perhaps even ask pointed questions. If they belittle you or disrespect you, kindly tell them that if they continue to do so, then you will not be able to continue a friendship with them.

Who knows, perhaps you may be the one to show them an alternative way to live and think.

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8 hours ago, Naturally said:

For these "friends" that already know your stance, just appease them by saying "good point" or "I'll see how I go this year". There's no reason to be combative over an issue that has nothing to do with them in the first place, and there's no reason to cut off a "friend" just because you disagree on one issue. Find commonalities and struture your conversations around them.

2 hours ago, 4800 Years said:

Lastly, I don't think cutting out anyone who disagrees with you, only associating with like-minded individuals, is the best way to live a well-rounded life. That is such a closed-minded way to live. However, respect is also key in any friendship. If they will not respect your convictions, then it may be time to move on. One of my best friends is an atheist, yet he and I have had a close friendship for eleven years. We don't agree on everything, but we have a mutual respect for each others' views and convictions.

 

I would only agree with that if I were around people I could disagree with in a civil and respectful manner but's clearly not the case here. First, Bette's "friends" are trying to convince her she's a moron for her choices. Second, when she tries to explain herself, more often than not they ignore her. So not only are they flat out demeaning her, they aren't even willing to listen to most of her reasons. They disrespect her and aren't even interested in any type of discussion at all. Her "friends" are the real closed-minded ones here. Keeping people around those who disagree with you is only beneficial if they treat you like an equal as 4800 Years eluded to, otherwise it's simply toxic.

To address Naturally's point, I don't see why she should have to appease people by saying things she most likely doesn't truly mean. That's just being disingenuous. She shouldn't have to tolerate other people speaking to her in whatever manner they please, while she just grins and bears it. If anyone did that to me, I'd be like:

tumblr_mxepci7wrQ1t0vkc1o1_500.gif

 

You made an argument earlier how keeping people around who disagree with her may open up career opportunities. Now this may come off as naive or absurdly idealistic, but if that is the sole reason to keep people around then I don't think that is right. At the very least, we should have a genuine relationship with that person before making job connections. Otherwise to me, that is just using people. On a side note, I wouldn't want to work with someone like one her "friends" anyways. We all know how prevalent work gossip is and how quickly word gets around. It is likely others in the office will get up in her business about her choice to wait as well. Not to mention some may actually take it upon themselves to help her get laid ASAP. Yeah....not the best work environment.

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This is interesting. I actually wanted to start a thread about being confident in WTM. I might do it soon...

Naturally´s and 4800 Years´s answer resonated the most with me, so I just want to say only a few more things additionally (or again, because I think they are important):

1) Don´t ever feel pressured to reveal this information about you. If you want to that´s great. If not, that´s fine as well. If you feel you need to say something or you get asked directly by someone then I think Naturally´s advice was good in regards to the more vague, short answers.

 

2) I think it´s very important who exactly those "friends" are. Some college students you share some classes with, your room mates, your lifelong friends, you´ve known for years or decades?

Me personally, I wouldn´t share that I´m WTM on a casual get-together with some more or less good friends (maybe they´ve brought some other friends of them as well to the party etc.).

That´s just going to be awkward and you get stigmatized right from the get-go (I´m assuming that no one else is WTM in that group). Because...

 

3) Remember: you are the freak. Not them.

I think, the founder of this site, Mike, said it sometime here or it was in his book. And it really made sense. You are the freak in the eyes of society. You are weird and awkward in the eyes of society or let´s say in regards to the mainstream and what´s so called "normal".

So if you know that you are the freak, then don´t expect to be welcomed with open arms by everybody when you declare that you are WTM.

I actually found the page in the book and I´m going to quote:

"You don´t chose your race or your sexual orientation, but you do choose to wait until marriage to have sex. You made a choice that you knew in advance would make you a rare minority. You chose to go against the norms of society.You chose to reject all the behaviors that were expected of you by your peers. You chose to be a freak. Waiting makes you special and it makes you noble, but it also makes you weird. You can save yourself a world of grief by simply remembering at all times that you´re the weird one, and that your non-waiter friends are actually following the rules of society."

(from: The Waiting ´Till Marriage Survival Guide by Mike Wyland, p. 316).

This quote is really liberating to me.

 

4) Don´t cut people out of your life, just because they don´t agree with waiting. I encourage you to actually get along with people who are way different than you are. Not all the time, of course. People that are "more like yourself" are important, as well. Very important!

But you can learn a lot from people that are different than you, think and live differently (you don´t even have to tell that you are WTM or that you have this or that conviction; sometimes it´s enough when you just live a little bit of life with them). It will broaden your horizon and might even strengthen your own convictions. Or you might find they need a bit of alternation. Not because of pressure from outside, but because of your own thinking and the results it brought to you by your new found experiences and observations.

Important note: Of course, you should leave relationships that you don´t feel good with. Ridiculing, bad talking, making fun of your convictions, backbiting....all those are of course things that are highly disrespectful and I agree 100% with 4800 years: Respect is key in any friendship! If you don´t find respect, then get out of it.

I understand that it´s not easy to not care about what other people think. But honestly, does anyone really never care what other people think of them? I don´t believe it´s true. I think to some extent people care.

Know that it is okay, that you care about it. It´s okay, that you are insecure about how to communicate your choice to WTM (remember: you are the freak after all). But also know, that you can practice confidence when it comes to talks about WTM.

3 hours ago, 4800 Years said:

Take the time to think through your decision to wait so that you can explain it. Then talk about it openly when the topic arises. It shouldn't become an argument or a debate, but merely a discussion.

 

I think, if you let the information that you are WTM out in the open, you don´t have any control of what is going to happen next. You might don´t want an argument, but the people you just gave that information to might be in a really good mood for an extensive debate. And then there you are. Five people against you. That sucks! Especially if you actually wanted to make friends or just have a nice evening, relaxing and letting go of stress.

The ironic thing is: Many people, when hearing that you want to WTM, will categorize you as "narrow-minded", "prudish", "inhibited", "uptight"...."you name it..." (because if you want to wait for sex, then there must be really something wrong with you and sex is always such a touchy subject anyway).But in fact they aren´t that much open-minded, as well, if an other way of living and thinking stirs up so many misconceptions and emotions and leads to ascribing mostly negative things in regards to your person and character.

So this :

3 hours ago, 4800 Years said:

Who knows, perhaps you may be the one to show them an alternative way to live and think.

 

...is actually the best outcome there can be, if there will be debates or wild discussions. But let´s be honest: This is the ideal outcome, but there can be way different outcomes where you go out of the debate as even more weird....and people already thinking a certain way about you.

So to conclude:

Don´t be ashamed and don´t feel the need to hide the WTM-part about you. It´s a part of who you are, as 4800 years said. Own it. It´s yours.

But at the same time get a feeling when it might be better to not reveal the whole picture. Because of the actual same reason. It´s part of who you are. Be careful with who you share your most private thoughts and convictions with and choose those people wisely. Especially in an environment like college you don´t want people to spread some myths about you or to create a certain image for you among your peers.

Unless, you love debating and are so confident in your decision to WTM and don´t have a problem at all with people tearing something that´s close to your heart apart like a hungry hyena, so that you could take on a fight about it every week......but that´s another story ;-)

I wish you the strength to find a good balance in handling the communication in regards to WTM!

Oh and here is an article that might be interesting to you (if you haven´t already seen it):

http://waitingtillmarriage.org/top-5-objections-to-waiting-till-marriage-and-how-to-overcome-them/

All the best, Bette, and I hope you find some awesome friends :-)

 

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It seems there are different levels of "friend" at play here: best friend, regular friend, and acquaintance.

I naturally gravitate to and relate to people with similar lifestyles to my own, so those types end up being my deepest and most enduring friendships. My closest friends are highly selective in their romantic relationships too. The only exception is one from childhood who tries to convince me to change my views on sex every time we hang out. I have avoided him in person for two years now. Unfortunately opposing views crippled our close friendship despite our agreement on every other topic and enjoying his company otherwise.

As for regular friends, I only require they respect my chosen lifestyle. I'm open to polite discussion from an impersonal perspective. If they demean me or start talking about reasons why I personally should have sex, it would jeopardize the friendship. Still, I usually don't talk about something as personal as waiting with regular friends. I will address it openly if they ask, otherwise I only "divulge" to best friends.

With acquaintances (most peers/coworkers) the topic rarely comes up. I seldom feel pressure to answer anything because most people just aren't bold enough to ask directly (though they may be beating around the bush- something I don't play along with) and I don't offer it up freely. I also respect people who, when asked, say "I do not discuss this publicly." I think there is strength behind that answer, not weakness, and one shouldn't feel obligated to share they are WTM. However, I am still able to relate to acquaintances on other levels and enjoy being around them. If they cross a line with me, I end my acquaintance with them (as in avoiding and deflecting conversation with them but still saying hi in passing) until they sincerely apologize and demonstrate ongoing respect.

I guess it comes down to keeping positive influences (who support, respect, or confirm your beliefs) close and questionable influences at an arm's length.

Best of luck finding friends in college, Bette. Keep looking. :)
 

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Thanks for the advice, guys

3 hours ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

2) I think it´s very important who exactly those "friends" are. Some college students you share some classes with, your room mates, your lifelong friends, you´ve known for years or decades?

Me personally, I wouldn´t share that I´m WTM on a casual get-together with some more or less good friends (maybe they´ve brought some other friends of them as well to the party etc.).

That´s just going to be awkward and you get stigmatized right from the get-go (I´m assuming that no one else is WTM in that group). Because..

These are mostly people in my major that I classify as "friends" (with the quotations) simply because we socialize regularly and are mostly on good terms. That being said, my college groups us together. There is no escaping them. Some of them will be my co-workers because I'm going into a niche career. Because of that I try to avoid pissing them off too much, I'll be dealing with them for a while. They are INCREDIBLY pushy, the whole lot of them harped on one poor girl for weeks after she expressed her views on Obama.

 

There is ONE girl who may possibly be WTM. She is a christian, and she's the closest thing to a real friend I have their. Whenever they bring up my virginity, this outspoken young woman suddenly takes interest in her shoes or changes the subject. She's a bit of an oddball but I'm hoping to get closer to her.

 

Also, thanks for the article, some of the arguments it held were nearly identical to the ones these people use.

 

16 hours ago, Syzygy said:

So, in short- you need true friends. Perhaps you could see if there are some religious groups on your campus perhaps.

 

That's not a bad idea... I think there are at least two christian groups here. I'll look into that.

10 hours ago, HeWhoWaits said:

For the situations in which people already know. Be bold about it. Don't act shy and meek and weak about it as if there is something wrong with you. Know that they want to shame you into living the types of lives they live. Probably lots of drinking and casual sex. The more stern, bold and set in stone you act the more they'll have to back down and just accept you (or as the above poster stated) get new friends.

 

I hadn't really thought of this, but I guess I do automatically act sheepish when people coerce me into revealing my views. Gotta work on that...

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I dealt with it by drinking. They had good intentions... but still... Drinking was a bad idea. Nearly became an alcoholic.

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Good. Just dont let anyone make you feel bad for being a virgin.

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On 10/17/2016 at 7:23 PM, Invincible said:

You need new friends. I don't know what you mean when you say regularly have to divulge that you're a virgin. You don't have to tell anyone anything you don't want to, let alone be obligated to defend your choices. Real friends do not make you feel "stupid" or look down on you for your personal choices, rather they should respect and encourage you in them. I know how tough it is to let go of long time friends, but they are NOT your friends. Trust me, you will feel a lot better when they are out of your life. It is better to be alone than to have toxic people constantly bringing you down. Anyone who uses the stupid car analogy don't think of people as people, they think of them as objects. That should be a big red flag right there.

You shouldn't have to argue with them in the first place because it's none of their business. They already made it clear they think less of your choice anyways. The best way to deal with it is to drop them out of your life and find friends who will support your choice.

Vince! You're a genius! I needed to read this post for sure!

Bette, I agree with what most people have said. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about being a virgin.  There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a 34 year old virgin and there's nothing wrong with that.  I know people shouldn't "slut shame" but they also shouldn't "virgin shame" either.  I believe respecting people's personal journeys no matter what's in their past.

Last night, I was in a social situation where people were asking me questions about my sexual history.  I said, "I'm not comfortable answering those questions."  I left it at that.  It's up to you when and to what extent you want to be honest about your virginity or waiting till marriage decision.  I've found that I have friends who are very supportive of me waiting.  I've found that when I've revealed my being a virgin to some people, they literally freak the frack out about it. They visibly look uncomfortable. They get judgemental and sometimes, flat out mean, like they think something's wrong with me. So, I actually pick and choose who I reveal my status with.  My best friends are very supportive of me waiting.  My acquaintances, I don't tell because I don't feel comfortable telling them.

I want to end on a positive note.  You'd be surprised who will be supportive of you waiting.  So, just trust that you can find friends who will support you.  I have a friend who has a promiscuous past and she's very supportive of me waiting and prefers that I wait ironically, lol.  I actually think it's the sweetest thing in the world that me waiting is more important to her sometimes, than it is to me.  lol.  

Yeah, good luck to you.  Keep waiting!  I feel all of us Waiters are doing the right thing! :)

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