Naturally

Virgin Therapists: Withholding. Not manipulative, just angry.

99 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Jorge said:

A vasectomy is actually reversible. 

In theory. In practice, the results are questionable at best.

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5 hours ago, Dave1985 said:

Wow... If you don't like your birth control pills, you will refuse to have sex with him because he refuses to get an irreversible surgery that could leave him in constant pain... I just don't know what to say... You are so far beyond unreasonable, it just boggles my mind.

Side effects of female birth control: Vaginal discomfort / itching / irritation, abnormal vaginal discharge, redness & swelling of the vulva, urinary tract infections, yeast infections, burning sensations while urinating, menstrual cramps, heavy bleeding, severe pelvic pain, loss of libido, pain during sex, headache, migraine, chest pain, back pain, jaw pain, sore legs, pain behind the eyes, breathing difficulties, coughing up blood, nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, stomach cramps, bloating, weight gain, breast soreness, breast lumps, breast cancer, nervousness, dizziness, fatigue, confusion, insomnia, numbness, swelling in face, hands & feet, fever, chills, bruising, scarring, problems with vision, speech and balance, freckles and darkening of skin, yellowing of skin and eyes, acne, allergic reactions, increased hair growth, loss of scalp hair, depression, emotional volatility, anxiety, vein inflammation, blood clots, angina, heart attack, stroke, uncontrolled blood pressure, severe diabetes, gallstones, liver tumours, death.

Sorry, got carried away there with unreasonable reasons. Back to you.

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On 2/24/2017 at 8:40 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Sex has a deep emotional impact for us. Our sexuality is a core part of our identity. If a wife is aware of these factors when turning down sex and reaffirms/validates them, I think the sexual rejection will be easier to take

Why do you think it's such a vital pat of the male identity and not to the same extent the female identity? Is it the social basis of human sexual behaviour that views a man's sexual prowess and the ability to perform sexually as more "successful males" while women have to such expectations to be considered a "successful female"? Therefore sexual rejection = incompetent male. 

 How might a wife turn down her husband so that the emotional impact isn't so severe? - What words would you suggest she use?

On 2/24/2017 at 8:40 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Does the conflict have to be resolved before the emotion improves or can we work on the reconnection first? Does the decision have to be made before there can be a reconnection? Obviously, it will depend partly on the conflict e.g. if I beat my wife [God forbid] I wouldn't expect a reconnection without first a resolution. But what in the case of a decision of say, moving cities, or what school the kids go to? Or will there not be any emotional disconnection unless the husband somehow hurt his wife in how he approached it? Like @Steadfast Madcap mentioned with going behind the wife's back and expecting her to uproot her life for him without input/query?

I think it's really underestimated how much of an effect the husband has on how this situation plays out. As you touched on here, emotional disconnection can be avoided with sufficient interest, awareness and effort in maintaining communication and offering understanding and compromise in the process. Under these circumstances, an issue may be looming but sexual intimacy can continue because he's making the effort to maintain emotional intimacy with her despite their conflict or disagreement. Through his efforts (communication) he is enabling her to maintain the love she has for him which enables her to continue sexual intimacy enabling him to maintain the love he has for her. So if the husband really wants to be the leader in his marriage perhaps it's his responsibility to lead first by example.

On 2/24/2017 at 8:40 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

If the conflict was resolved, can you give a ballpark figure of how long it might take for the emotions to settle down to discontinue withholding?

Just because conflict is resolved doesn't mean emotional intimacy is restored.

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On 2/24/2017 at 5:11 AM, Naturally said:

Side effects of female birth control: Vaginal discomfort / itching / irritation, abnormal vaginal discharge, redness & swelling of the vulva, urinary tract infections, yeast infections, burning sensations while urinating, menstrual cramps, heavy bleeding, severe pelvic pain, loss of libido, pain during sex, headache, migraine, chest pain, back pain, jaw pain, sore legs, pain behind the eyes, breathing difficulties, coughing up blood, nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, stomach cramps, bloating, weight gain, breast soreness, breast lumps, breast cancer, nervousness, dizziness, fatigue, confusion, insomnia, numbness, swelling in face, hands & feet, fever, chills, bruising, scarring, problems with vision, speech and balance, freckles and darkening of skin, yellowing of skin and eyes, acne, allergic reactions, increased hair growth, loss of scalp hair, depression, emotional volatility, anxiety, vein inflammation, blood clots, angina, heart attack, stroke, uncontrolled blood pressure, severe diabetes, gallstones, liver tumours, death.

Sorry, got carried away there with unreasonable reasons. Back to you.

I can see why the liberals consider it basic women's health care that needs to be paid for by the taxpayers. :P

As a Catholic, I believe in Natural Family Planning as the only "acceptable" birth control method...

But why does it have to be the husband permanently sterilizing himself to meet your demands of being "responsive to your needs"? Making him get a surgery that can't easily be reversed? Are you going to make up for the lost income during the week he's not able to go to work? If you later decide you want kids, are you going to shell out the $10,000 it costs to have it reversed in a hope of a 25-55% chance that he would be able to have kids? If you ever leave him, are you going to give him enough money to reverse it? Seriously... no other option but a permanent surgery?

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@Dave1985 

Thanks for your answer!

I am not quite sure what to say. It sounded quite...pessimistic.

I am not actually miserable on a daily basis. Just have sad moments/days where I am questioning this whole WTM-thing and feeling very down and lonely, because I seem to be the only one with this idea (in my real social environment, I mean). But I guess, every waiter has his/hers ups and downs and sometimes wanting to throw in the towel.

If you don´t mind me asking...how come you seem so negative regarding women and marriage?

If I would hear about "the female human being" for the very first time just by reading some of your posts, I would think, that women are some evil, malicious and ruthless creatures with mean intentions just on earth to destroy men and suck every ounce of happiness out of them while exploiting them in almost every area of their lives.

I don´t deny that women like that do not exist. But good news is: There are kind, loving women with good intentions, as well. Women who would be passionate about making their man happy.

So....you can still find happiness, is what I am trying to say.

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On 2/24/2017 at 5:00 PM, Dave1985 said:

Wow... If you don't like your birth control pills, you will refuse to have sex with him because he refuses to get an irreversible surgery that could leave him in constant pain... I just don't know what to say... You are so far beyond unreasonable, it just boggles my mind. I'm glad to be single...

As others have pointed out. It is generally reversible. And even if a particular vasectomy wasn't you can still harvest sperm through "sperm aspiration". If the wife is in constant pain or physical/emotional damage from birth control, the risk of lasting pain for the husband from a vasectomy doesn't exactly rule out the option. I think you might need to take a step back and calm down a little. After all, this thread has had a relatively high emotional load...

On 2/24/2017 at 5:00 PM, Dave1985 said:

didn't need any further evidence that women can be power hungry sociopaths.

We have women mass murderers, sociopaths, baby killers, and psychopaths and it took you a lovely girl waiting till marriage to have sex to figure this out? Women can be as bad as men. Men as bad as women. I didn't think this was an issue....

 

On 2/24/2017 at 5:00 PM, Dave1985 said:

What if he were to cave into your ridiculous demands, and you were later to decide that you want kids? Would you divorce him, and take a sizable chunk of the assets? Would you have a child with another guy and have the feminist family courts make him pay for them? Would you be withholding then because you want kids now, and his own choices made it an impossibility? Would he once again be single, and forever unable to reproduce because of your actions? I just don't know what to say...

Woah, mate. Take it easy. Some of these accusatory questions are quite out of line. I realise you have a very strong negative view of the whole situation but you are frankly sounding quite paranoid and prejudicially hostile. If you treat women who have given no indication that they would find such actions acceptable as if they would do them, I think your chances of scaring away the best of girls is pretty high. No one wants to tackle that level of hostile projection. Unless you're betting on God sending you a saint....I suggest you familiarise yourself with the term "self-fulfilling prophecy".

If you are happy to be single. Great! Not everyone is cut out for marriage. But if you are blaming women for not being happily married, it won't do your well being any good!

14 minutes ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

If I would hear about "the female human being" for the very first time just by reading some of your posts, I would think, that women are some evil, malicious and ruthless creatures with mean intentions just on earth to destroy men and suck every ounce of happiness out of them while exploiting them in almost every area of their lives.

If this is the messages that are being received. Really, what are your chances of a decent, balanced, level-headed girl telling herself, "I'm sure years of my life won't be wasted trying to prove him wrong! I can change him!" May I suggest seeing a professional to work through some of these things?

2 hours ago, Dave1985 said:

But why does it have to be the husband permanently sterilizing himself to meet your demands of being "responsive to your needs"? Making him get a surgery that can't easily be reversed? Are you going to make up for the lost income during the week he's not able to go to work? If you later decide you want kids, are you going to shell out the $10,000 it costs to have it reversed in a hope of a 25-55% chance that he would be able to have kids? If you ever leave him, are you going to give him enough money to reverse it? Seriously... no other option but a permanent surgery?

Again, not permanent. Lost income, potential cost of reversal, cost of storing sperm before procedure are all going to play towards balancing the options. No one is saying they are inherently irrelevant factors. 

 

15 hours ago, Naturally said:

Why do you think it's such a vital pat of the male identity and not to the same extent the female identity?

Ah...I was (at least intending to) explore the emotional side of sex for males not make some comment on how this isn't the case for females.

 

15 hours ago, Naturally said:

How might a wife turn down her husband so that the emotional impact isn't so severe? - What words would you suggest she use?

I'd say unless/until (it still wouldn't hurt...) there was the whole "freedom of no" understanding (in which case "B)" would be covered in their sufficiently frequent sex life), I would explain in more detail A) why she feels the need to turn it down (stress, headache, pains, emotions) and "B)" the reason that she isn't using to turn it down (e.g. I don't love you, I don't value our sexual connection/your sexual aspects, I don't get enough pleasure from our sexual intimacy). The last could be done with an expression of how much she appreciates his sexual affections and how much she is looking forward to it when the pains are gone, when she has an expected moment of de-stress, whatever. If she can give a concrete instance of when that will be would be even better. If she initiates at the soonest possibility, it would also be a good communication via action sort off a "Yes, now we can finally have sex again! I've been looking forward to it as much as you and just couldn't wait until you felt the need to initiate again. Come here you sexy beast!"  

 

16 hours ago, Naturally said:
On 2/24/2017 at 8:40 AM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

If the conflict was resolved, can you give a ballpark figure of how long it might take for the emotions to settle down to discontinue withholding?

Just because conflict is resolved doesn't mean emotional intimacy is restored.

Sure. I was picturing a (potentially unrealistic?) situation where the conflict has been resolved, the husband has done all that he could do to heal whatever harm he may have caused - and she has accepted this but she might just need some time to flush her system of the emotions involved? "I accept your apology/whatever etc there isn't anything else I expect you to do, but I need some more time to process". Kind of like waiting a little after a car-crash to let the adrenaline etc ease out. 

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4 hours ago, Dave1985 said:

As a Catholic, I believe in Natural Family Planning as the only "acceptable" birth control method...

But why does it have to be the husband permanently sterilizing himself to meet your demands of being "responsive to your needs"? Making him get a surgery that can't easily be reversed? Are you going to make up for the lost income during the week he's not able to go to work? If you later decide you want kids, are you going to shell out the $10,000 it costs to have it reversed in a hope of a 25-55% chance that he would be able to have kids? If you ever leave him, are you going to give him enough money to reverse it? Seriously... no other option but a permanent surgery?

Sure, and you have the right to practice your beliefs as do others theirs. Your beliefs are no more important than anybody elses just because they're yours.

Just like your preference for NFP would preclude a wife who uses birth control. My desire to never produce children of my own would necessitate a husband who shared the same desire and wished to ensure the permanency of that desire through a vasectomy.

Sure, if he comps me for the week I'd need to take off for a tubal ligation... You know it's a marriage not a business deal, right?

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On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Without answering your question, do you not think that there are aspects in the control of a husband which impact on a wife's "womanhood, self-esteem, mental health, feelings of love and almost every aspect of life"?

Sure. I think there are aspects in the control of a husband which impact the wife´s womanhood, self-esteem, mental health, feelings of love and almost every aspect of life.

Absolutely.

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

In which case, we can ask the exact same question, except that it might not be related to sex.

 

Yes, you can ask the exact same question. For some women it might be related to sex, for some not.

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

So why is it so "bad" when it's sex instead of something else? Do we here have some upcroppings of overly prudish culture saying sex is bad or that the man is an "animal" if he wants/needs sex? Bearing in mind that women can crave sex just as much as males.

Who said it is bad when it is sex instead of something else?

I am afraid I don´t understand what you are trying to say here ... What "upcroppings of overly prudish culture"? What culture are you talking about?

Well, I don´t think that a man is an animal for wanting sex....and I don´t think sex is bad. Rather quite the contrary.

Sorry, I can´t follow you here.

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

There is a difference between being refused sex and choosing not to have it. In my current state I'm not supposed to have sex according with my beliefs; I am in marriage. Having sex for me right now is not even an option, even if it was offered (which has occurred). I don't entertain any hope of having sex tomorrow or next week or next month which may be dashed by a wife's rejection. If I ask someone on a date, or am in a non-marital romantic relationship with someone and they would refuse to have sex with me I'd see that as a good thing and not as a rejection because I'm not expecting or hoping to have it at that point. UNLESS they really wouldn't want to have sex with me even if we were married. Even then, the connection, and hence the strength of the rejection, would be nowhere near as strong as with my wife.

Makes sense and I agree.

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

The whole aspect of hope, anticipation, raking up the courage (which depending on how bad it is can take a lot, particularly when your wife thinks your an animal for wanting "so much" sex) and then rejection is a big part of the problem - which is why in counseling in order to assist matching unmatched sex drives scheduling sex can help. This sex schedule as to when sex will happen can help the higher sex drive person cope with a less than desired frequency because he has certainty. These can be quite flexible. The book Sex, Men and God explores some.

Thanks. Keep the book recommendations coming ;)

 

On ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 11:41 PM, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Certainly, if the non-waiter feels rejected because of your moral code that can be an issue but it is different from the situation where there is no moral code preventing you and you choosing on the basis of your feelings to neglect your partner's sexual needs. When a waiter is refusing sex because they aren't married, I'd suggest they want sex but won't choose to because of their morals. When married and withholding they can choose to but they don't want to. 

 

Agreed.

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On 2/23/2017 at 2:46 AM, Steadfast Madcap said:

As for what type of conflicts or issues are justifiable reasons for turning down sex, I think there's wayyy to many individual situations or scenarios imaginable to ever really begin to come up with a comprehensive list.

Fair enough. Let me rephrase, since as I've discussed with @Naturally the conflict itself needn't create the disconnection. 

At what level of emotion would you, ladies be inclined to withhold? Do you equate level of negative emotion with level of disconnection or can you feel a strong negative emotion but still feel sufficiently emotionally connected*?

* the concept of a love-hate relationship is the closest I can come up with as an example.

[feel free to create your own emotion list]: Neutral, indifferent, uncomfortable, annoyed, irritated, frustrated, exasperated, disappointed, insulted, aggravated, upset, angry, irate enraged...

The emotions are a bit mixed above but afterwards I found this: an anger thermostat:

 

12    infuriated; raging; rageful; boiling; explosive

11.5  fuming; smoldering; inflamed; outraged

11     incensed; enraged

10.5  seething; livid; “hot”

10     bitter; irate; inflamed; rancorous

9.5    heated; wrathful; vengeful

9       hostile; belligerant

8.5    riled; galled; agitated; pissed off

8       indignant; insulted

7.5    disgusted; fed up; exasperated

7       perturbed; piqued

6.5    upset; antagonized; cross

6       resentful

5.5    provoked; irritated

5       miffed; irked; chagrined; disgruntled

4.5    vexed; “hot under the collar”

4       irritable; irascible; grumpy: grouchy

3.5    peevish; petulant; testy

3       offended; provoked

2.5    frustrated; uptight

2       annoyed; chafing

1.5    impatient; edgy; distressed

1       bothered; troubled

0.5    displeased; disappointed

0       completely calm and cool; peaceful; tranquil; fully in control—both emotionally and cognitively

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201401/the-anger-thermostat-whats-the-temperature-your-upset 

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@Naturally

What I forgot earlier....Was it you, who complemented the title of this thread and another thread with the introduction "Virgin Therapists"? :P

(I don´t know if only the person who started the thread can change the title later)

Although, we have a lot of non-virgin waiters here who, of course, are more than welcome to give their opinions, the title is funny :lol: Sounds like a TV-series or something similiar...

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8 minutes ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

Although, we have a lot of non-virgin waiters here who, of course, are more than welcome to give their opinions, the title is funny :lol: Sounds like a TV-series or something similiar...

Yes. I do hope they don't feel excluded..."Virgin Therapists" just has a better ring (and double meaning) than "Waiter Therapists". Technically most are probably "born-again virgins"...

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2 minutes ago, 'tis the Bearded One said:

Yes. I do hope they don't feel excluded..."Virgin Therapists" just has a better ring (and double meaning) than "Waiter Therapists". Technically most are probably "born-again virgins"...

Yes, to all non-virgins here: don´t feel excluded!!!

But what double meaning does "Virgin Therapists" imply? It´s therapists that are virgin....or do you mean the star sign as the double meaning? Haha, sorry, I am obviously missing something here.

"Waiter Therapists" does have a double meaning, too, though. Waiter as in "waiting till marriage" and Waiter as in the profession (waiter/waitress). Haha. Okay, that was not that funny :superwaiter: :lol:

 

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13 minutes ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

But what double meaning does "Virgin Therapists" imply? It´s therapists that are virgin....or do you mean the star sign as the double meaning? Haha, sorry, I am obviously missing something here.

The other meaning I was thinking of is when we treat Virgin synonymously with Novice/yet-to-be-broken in therapists...

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Just now, 'tis the Bearded One said:

The other meaning I was thinking of is when we treat Virgin synonymously with Novice/yet-to-be-broken in therapists...

Aaah, of course! Needed some time to catch up on that ;)

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4 hours ago, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

@Dave1985 

Thanks for your answer!

I am not quite sure what to say. It sounded quite...pessimistic.

I am not actually miserable on a daily basis. Just have sad moments/days where I am questioning this whole WTM-thing and feeling very down and lonely, because I seem to be the only one with this idea (in my real social environment, I mean). But I guess, every waiter has his/hers ups and downs and sometimes wanting to throw in the towel.

If you don´t mind me asking...how come you seem so negative regarding women and marriage?

If I would hear about "the female human being" for the very first time just by reading some of your posts, I would think, that women are some evil, malicious and ruthless creatures with mean intentions just on earth to destroy men and suck every ounce of happiness out of them while exploiting them in almost every area of their lives.

I don´t deny that women like that do not exist. But good news is: There are kind, loving women with good intentions, as well. Women who would be passionate about making their man happy.

So....you can still find happiness, is what I am trying to say.

The women always loved to make fun of my OCD and call me "crazy". I was convinced early on that none of them could be interested in me. And here is the big one in an older post. http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/topic/5636-how-should-christians-handle-pathological-liars/?do=findComment&comment=80743

 

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57 minutes ago, Dave1985 said:

The women always loved to make fun of my OCD and call me "crazy". I was convinced early on that none of them could be interested in me. And here is the big one in an older post. http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/topic/5636-how-should-christians-handle-pathological-liars/?do=findComment&comment=80743

 

I know I haven't been in the discussion much but I just want to express how sorry I am that you experienced what you did. I know how it feels to be different and to be made fun of because of it. Kids can just be some of the most cruel people sometimes. Most people fear what they don't understand and I feel like I can't emphasize this enough but none of it is your fault. It also isn't the fault of others who have done nothing wrong to offend you. 

As a child I had a severe iron deficiency to the point where it looked like I suffered from dwarfism or something. I may have been 7 or 8 but had the appearance of a 5 year old. I had to go to school with kids who were much taller than me and reminded me of how different I was every single day. I still don't talk about it with people and have spent years trying to hide it from others. 

It sucks to have distrust in people and to always be guarded against others. Some issues will take a lifetime to deal with and the worst thing you can do is treat others as if all they will do is hurt you. I haven't personally spoken to you but you seem like a deeply rooted, biblical Catholic with above average intelligence and a concise depiction of what you are looking for in a woman. None of that strikes me as bad at all. But the way you express your thoughts and views to others strikes me as abrasive at times, and I feel as if it's not a clear representation of who you are at all. 

Just relax and remember that we're all kind, considerate, and caring people who value your thoughts and opinions regardless of how similar or different our beliefs may be. :)

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6 hours ago, Jorge said:

I know I haven't been in the discussion much but I just want to express how sorry I am that you experienced what you did. I know how it feels to be different and to be made fun of because of it. Kids can just be some of the most cruel people sometimes. Most people fear what they don't understand and I feel like I can't emphasize this enough but none of it is your fault. It also isn't the fault of others who have done nothing wrong to offend you. 

As a child I had a severe iron deficiency to the point where it looked like I suffered from dwarfism or something. I may have been 7 or 8 but had the appearance of a 5 year old. I had to go to school with kids who were much taller than me and reminded me of how different I was every single day. I still don't talk about it with people and have spent years trying to hide it from others. 

It sucks to have distrust in people and to always be guarded against others. Some issues will take a lifetime to deal with and the worst thing you can do is treat others as if all they will do is hurt you. I haven't personally spoken to you but you seem like a deeply rooted, biblical Catholic with above average intelligence and a concise depiction of what you are looking for in a woman. None of that strikes me as bad at all. But the way you express your thoughts and views to others strikes me as abrasive at times, and I feel as if it's not a clear representation of who you are at all. 

Just relax and remember that we're all kind, considerate, and caring people who value your thoughts and opinions regardless of how similar or different our beliefs may be. :)

Good point... You learn that people that have power over us, whether it be power that we give them (people whose opinions we care about), or power that we subliminally (foolishly) consent to (government, people we trust to make decisions for us), can and frequently will take advantage of us. She lied about police involvement. You become suspicious about people like her who want power, because she lied about everything. You knew back then (7th grade or so) that even as the girls were making fun of you, full-fledged adult women would also be looking to cause problems for you. Then you hear for years about low sex marriages ("The wedding ring turns them into nuns", "You don't find out until you're married how often they have 'headaches'", etc., etc.) Then you go off into the real world to find that all of the 18-25 year old (unmarried) women that you know are having a lot of sex... But you can't comprehend why the unmarried women would do that while the married women won't... You reach the conclusion that they are doing it only to string their boyfriends along, hoping to get married, so that the biased divorce courts give them a full-fledged nuclear weapon to ruin your life it either of you tries to leave... Eventually, you realize that women do have some semblance of a sex drive, and try to reconcile that with the sexless marriages... Eventually, you become convinced that they are attracted to the guys they have sex with, but refuse sex to the husbands because they aren't (and might never have been) attracted to him. You have to trust your judgement if you want to find a good wife. That's an awfully big burden to place on your judgement, that has far-reaching consequences, and can do massive financial, emotional, and family damage, especially if there will be kids involved. Also keep in mind that, depending on which source you believe, women file for divorce in 60-90% of cases. That suggests to me that the relationship might never have meant anything to them.

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The issue is that he got a better job in another city that he applied for prior to getting married. She  doesn't want to move because she's a school teacher and just got her first teaching job in this city and it's difficult to find a teaching job when you've just entered the field, so it'll be harder if she moves to another city. Also, she doesn't want to leave her family and friends.

 

Deciding whether to move or not to move? How did that end up in them not having sex for weeks? I'm lost? How do you go from debating about moving or not to not even having sex, even when they aren't debating this issue and one person is trying to initiate with the other? Sounds like they need counseling on learning how to argue (with rules) without insulting and belittling each other while doing so.

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On ‎26‎.‎02‎.‎2017 at 2:47 AM, Dave1985 said:

The women always loved to make fun of my OCD and call me "crazy". I was convinced early on that none of them could be interested in me. And here is the big one in an older post. http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/topic/5636-how-should-christians-handle-pathological-liars/?do=findComment&comment=80743

 

Thanks for sharing and being open and honest about your experiences and what it has done to you.

True, kids can be cruel and scar you for a lifetime. You definitely have my compassion.

You are not alone, though. Research ("The nature of prejudice" by G.W. Allport) on the causes and transmission of prejudice suggests that when an individual has a negative experience with a member of a group as part of routine everyday encounters (in your case "the female group"), this moment is often mobilized to produce and justify powerful negative generalizations about the whole population that the individual is seen to represent (in your case "the female population") (Information from "Living with difference" by G. Valentine)

So I am sure, you can work towards solving those issues, if you want to. I know, easier said than done like always.

And "misery loves company" is a...well....way too miserable motto to live one´s life by, don´t you think?

All the best!

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On 2/26/2017 at 0:47 PM, Dave1985 said:

The women always loved to make fun of my OCD and call me "crazy". I was convinced early on that none of them could be interested in me. And here is the big one in an older post. http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/topic/5636-how-should-christians-handle-pathological-liars/?do=findComment&comment=80743

I am also sorry this happened to you. I never listened to, believed or perpetuated rumors in high school because I knew they were manufactured by pathological attention-seeking girls who got a sick satisfaction from causing drama. My "group" started out with six girls (all girls Catholic school), by the end of high school we were a group of 27 because I made sure every girl who got "kicked out" of her group for whatever petty reason, had my group to sit with. Everyone was accepted - no exceptions. People who bully are weak and loathsome and need an intervention in order to instill in them some humanity. I'm certain that had I gone to your school I would have been your friend, I wouldn't have felt unsafe around you (I also have OCD), I would have been interested in you, and I would have defended you against all those who defamed your character. We are not all the same. But I understand why this trauma has led you to stereotype all women in this way, it's only natural.

On 2/26/2017 at 8:06 PM, Dave1985 said:

Good point... You learn that people that have power over us, whether it be power that we give them (people whose opinions we care about), or power that we subliminally (foolishly) consent to (government, people we trust to make decisions for us), can and frequently will take advantage of us. She lied about police involvement. You become suspicious about people like her who want power, because she lied about everything. You knew back then (7th grade or so) that even as the girls were making fun of you, full-fledged adult women would also be looking to cause problems for you. Then you hear for years about low sex marriages ("The wedding ring turns them into nuns", "You don't find out until you're married how often they have 'headaches'", etc., etc.) Then you go off into the real world to find that all of the 18-25 year old (unmarried) women that you know are having a lot of sex... But you can't comprehend why the unmarried women would do that while the married women won't... You reach the conclusion that they are doing it only to string their boyfriends along, hoping to get married, so that the biased divorce courts give them a full-fledged nuclear weapon to ruin your life it either of you tries to leave... Eventually, you realize that women do have some semblance of a sex drive, and try to reconcile that with the sexless marriages... Eventually, you become convinced that they are attracted to the guys they have sex with, but refuse sex to the husbands because they aren't (and might never have been) attracted to him. You have to trust your judgement if you want to find a good wife. That's an awfully big burden to place on your judgement, that has far-reaching consequences, and can do massive financial, emotional, and family damage, especially if there will be kids involved. Also keep in mind that, depending on which source you believe, women file for divorce in 60-90% of cases. That suggests to me that the relationship might never have meant anything to them.

While valid concerns, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. By expecting that your relationship is going to play out in this manner is essentially willing it to happen. It might be difficult to have a successful relationship with a woman if you're so mistrustful of them. 

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:44 PM, Dave1985 said:

As a Catholic, I believe in Natural Family Planning as the only "acceptable" birth control method

If it were actually scriptural I'd agree with you. Since there is nothing in scripture about it than it is just the catholic leadership's "opinion".

There is nothing biblical declaring that a family having two kids and then stopping (with the man having a vasectomy) and having no additional children is "SIN" while the family with ten kids is obeying God's will.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that's all that is, there's nothing scriptural behind it.

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:36 PM, WakeUp&BeAwesome said:

If I would hear about "the female human being" for the very first time just by reading some of your posts, I would think, that women are some evil, malicious and ruthless creatures with mean intentions just on earth to destroy men and suck every ounce of happiness out of them while exploiting them in almost every area of their lives.

Didn't you know :D....

 

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This could all probably best be summed up with:

"In your anger do not sin”  Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

and:

The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.  For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.  Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

It is alright to have conflict and to disagree but in the end you should still be kind and respectful to each other when having a disagreement and to not run off at the mouth and begin name calling and becoming disrespectful to each other to where the disagreement ends up separating you. "Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry", you should respectfully "table" the issue after a while and then come together again and leave things with each with an embrace and reaffirming that you love each other and that you'll keep discussing things respectfully in the future. It's hard to do but when you don't argue with rules and belittle each other and let resentment and bitterness sneak in you "give the devil a foothold".

If a family decision such as stay or move ends up causing weeks or months of separation from each other and resentment it shows that they aren't having disagreements but staying respectful during the debates and they've made the mistake of "going to bed still angry with each other" and they've let resentment and bitterness begin to sneak in. They've given Satan that foothold to begin the process the driving a wedge between the couple.

According to scripture, spouses being separated physically, emotionally and spiritually for long periods of time is not the way it is intended to be. Therefore they are doing it wrong.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

It sounds as though they are being proud, dishonoring each other, they are self-seeking and they are keeping a record of wrongs and they aren't being forgiving of each other.

You posted this 4 months ago or so. Hopefully your friends have moved past this, forgiven each other and are doing well now.

 

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