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Sophie

Why are there so many people who believe in God, go to church, believe in the Bible...but don't WTM?

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I'm an atheist, but I am really horrified with the amount of people I know who believe in God, the Bible, have gone to church (sometimes every Sunday,) yet they still have pre-marital sex. Millions of people do this. Is there some sort of loophole in the Bible that I don't know about? How can you claim to have faith in God and the Bible, but have premarital sex? All I know is that if I believed in God, I would never try to defy His rules in any way. I wouldn't think, "it's the twenty-first century so it's okay," or "I love him so it's okay." I guess to me, rules are rules and if the Bible speaks out against pre-marital sex, then...

From what little I know of the Bible, it says that sex was a gift or something given to us to be enjoyed in the sanctity of marriage. Which sounds perfectly reasonable to me, not an act of repression towards women and sexual desire, like so many believe it is.

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Selective incorporation.

I say that without bitterness. Waiting is a hard path and it's not for everybody, religious or otherwise.

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hey luv :lol: I know Christians who dont wait and their reasoning is that they dont think God minds them having sex outside of marriage. Everyone interprets the bible differently, for example the bible says Flee Fornication, but some Christians just choose not to read that part. They do what they want to, We are all free will agents, we have the power to choose our decisions and some choose to not wait. For example, im not sure if there is a gathering hall or weekly group meeting for Atheist, but I have friends that are Atheist, some of them dont celebrate Xmas because of the religious belief behind it and some of them do. The Atheist that dont celebrate it would argue that your not a true Atheist if you celebrate Xmas or Easter because of its religious history. And other Atheist just dont care. in every religion or lack there of, people will do what they want to even it if means ignoring the basic foundations and principles of the religion or belief they choose to be apart of, because they choose to part and seperate their belief in their own favor.

Hope this helps

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Something you need to know about Christians are that there are many different kinds. Some believe it's okay in the 21st century, while others are against it. I know a woman (she is Lutheran, and that means pre-marital is a nono) who told her son that she would buy condoms for him, but she insists he believe in her religion and go to church with her....this does not make sense. Why teach your son "safe-sex" if you want him to not commit a sin? Then there are the Christians who actually believe in what they claim to believe! But mess up...and then try to justify it, and then stop trying. There are those who preach it to cover up what they do. There are those who believe the bible says to have many wives (I've met two.) And I've known people who actually follow these teachings faithfully, and those who have fallen from it to come back with a new understanding. The world of Christianity is much like the rest of the world. Being Christian doesn't mean being perfect.

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For example, im not sure if there is a gathering hall or weekly group meeting for Atheist, but I have friends that are Atheist, some of them dont celebrate Xmas because of the religious belief behind it and some of them do. The Atheist that dont celebrate it would argue that your not a true Atheist if you celebrate Xmas or Easter because of its religious history. And other Atheist just dont care.

I may be able to say something on that. I'm an atheist, and so is my father, but to the best of my knowledge, the majority of my relatives are not (at least those over the age of 30.) Even though my mom's side of the family is Christian, our Christmas and Easter celebrations have nothing to do with religion whatsoever. I was 13 before I learned Christmas and Easter had something to do with Jesus. Easter is always about chocolate, and Christmas was always about a sparkly tree, presents, and family meals. Religion was never incorperated into the Christian holidays. I guess when it comes to atheism, you are no longer a part of a religion, but you are a part of a culture. Like I consider myself to be a part of the Jewish culture, but not the religion. Hm...does that make sense? Anyways, thank you for your explination. :)

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Well with my experience (or luck), Christian girls want nothing to do with me, and non-Christians want to have a lot to do with me. So I'm assuming I'm not the only one in this situation. If a Christian dates a non-Christian, it might be easier to trip up on their "beliefs" in order to make the other person happy. I know plenty of Christians that have dated non-Christians, and it's easy to slip away from your beliefs when that happens. Even those with a strong bond of faith will give in to the temptation. Sometimes the body wants more than the mind wants to give up. Unfortunately, however, it happens.

I think part of it is that people are growing up slower. They are dependent on their parents into their mid or even late 20s, aren't mature enough at an early age, and do adult things without considering the adult responsibility. We live in a throwaway society where we can blame shift and not commit to anything. The commentary applies to humanity as much as it does to Christianity.

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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (Paraphrase of John 8:7)

That's my take in a nutshell. Pre-marital sex is a sin...but it is just that...a sin. Even the most ardent, practicing Christian is not without sin. Its part of this world and always will be. Nobody's perfect...and true Christians don't claim to be...I sure don't. I'm against pre-marital sex (obviously) but similar to Mike I know that it's a tough road and that many people just can't do it. The temptation there is just so great. I mean it's not like pre-marital sex is the only sin one can commit...let's get real. Using the Lord's name in vain?? Looking lustfully at another person? And about a million more. How many Christians could say they've never done either of those two things? Probably not very many. But that doesn't make them bad people or even bad Christians. It just shows that that person is a human being! A human being saved by God's grace...and only by his grace we surely don't deserve it. God loves us unconditionally! :)

In saying that, I really do wish more Christians followed God's word and waited but it is what it is. *shrugs*

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:) a quote I have often depended on, DD: "I am stronger than my temptation." I've been told God doesn't give one a temptation he/she can't handle.

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:) a quote I have often depended on, DD: "I am stronger than my temptation." I've been told God doesn't give one a temptation he/she can't handle.

That's a very nice quote, no matter what religion you are. :)

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Hmm, I've wondered that too... I have a friend who's Catholic, goes to Mass every week, does volunteer work for the church, goes to a church youth group, even went to Madrid last year for World Youth Day with the Pope. But, I remember asking her if she was going to WTM, and she sort of thought about it for a while, before saying no, she didn't think she would. Which surprised me a bit.

I think the reason why people often don't wait even though they are religious is the same reason a lot of people don't wait: because they want to wait, but don't think anyone else is waiting, and they feel they have to compromise some beliefs to find love in today's world. Probably one of the main reasons a site like this is really important.

xxx

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Every religion has followers that don't do all that they're supposed to do in their religion. It's not only WTM-related nor is it only Christians.

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...they want to wait, but don't think anyone else is waiting, and they feel they have to compromise some beliefs to find love in today's world.

I think so many people feel this way, religious or not. I honestly think that if WTM was still viewed as the proper, normal thing to do and there was minimal pressure to do anything else, a lot more people would choose WTM. If WTM was completely normal, it would be so much easier for me to say that I am most definitely doing it. Then again, my parents didn't marry until their early forties, so...and then they seperated. They didn't WTM, but if they had, I bet they would have regreted it.

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I second everything DD said. That's how I feel in a nutshell.

Also Sophie, I'll just add that it's a lot easier to "look" like a Christian and do Christian things once in a while (i.e. church, pray once in a while, quote a Bible verse) than to walk the walk. There are plenty of people who go to church and say they believe in God but their actions/lifestyle really don't match up. There's a lot of "commercial Christians" out there who look like Christians but their soul isn't in it. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody else but you get the drift.

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Spot on, Sophie! I'm a Christian, but I see the same problem that you do and it's quite irritating to see so many Christians (Evangelicals, even!) fornicating with delight.

I can think of a few reasons:

(1) they're only nominally Christians, but really live as if God doesn't exist, even if they go to church every Sunday at 9 am and pray every day. They won't accept rules if they're inconvenient or difficult.

(2) they're Christians of the Jesus-as-therapy type (this overlaps with #1)

(3) they're the appeasement type (by which I mean sacrificing 'problematic' doctrine to better protect the core of the faith, and/or doing the nasty to avoid losing their lover).

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because they pick and chose there faith, they look at the rules and go "erm i don't like that rule ill miss it out", but they still believe in there faith and there still good people they just select what parts of faith they want to believe or follow

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Also Sophie, I'll just add that it's a lot easier to "look" like a Christian and do Christian things once in a while (i.e. church, pray once in a while, quote a Bible verse) than to walk the walk. There are plenty of people who go to church and say they believe in God but their actions/lifestyle really don't match up. There's a lot of "commercial Christians" out there who look like Christians but their soul isn't in it. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody else but you get the drift.

I agree completely! I think for many people like this they kind of separate their religion from their lives...i.e. they go to church on sundays "putting in their time" so to speak and then the rest of the week don't even think about God or their actions. My take anyway..

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Honestly I do disagree with some of the statement about how it's not for everyone I think it is for everyone just some people blatantly make the choice not wait. If we have the self-control (regardless of Faith or lack thereof) then so can others just my opinion.

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I think it also has to do with your environment (how you were raised, where you were raised etc..) and its influence.

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Honestly I do disagree with some of the statement about how it's not for everyone I think it is for everyone just some people blatantly make the choice not wait. If we have the self-control (regardless of Faith or lack thereof) then so can others just my opinion.

I think I agree with you. Especially if you are a virgin, waiting is something you can definitely do. I'm sure it's a lot harder for non-virgins though, not because they want sex more but because they've already had it, they've experienced all the physical benefits so going abstinent would be harder because you actually know what you're missing out on. It would be like, for me, to never eat ice cream ever again. lol. Or for most girls, chocolate. But I also think waiting for girls is easier, and I'm not just talking about libido differences, but for a girl to lose her virginity...it hurts. There is frequently blood, and almost always pain. Whether or not the hymen is still intact, it's going to hurt. Girls are well aware of this, so I think this is the main reason why we tend to be cautious about who we give our virginity to.

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I see this all the time too. While I really wish they would have more respect for themselves, I always remind myself that I'm human and sin everyday too. Never anything major, but I know that I do. As far as the women that I see all the time that have pre-marital sex... I just remind myself that we're all sinners, and that the reason I view WTM as so important is because the man I'm with will always be a part of me mind, body, and soul. I know a little bit of envy I will be forgiven for, and eventually I'll probably forget I even had that silly thought. The gift of me though, that will be around my entire life. I guess it all comes down to being able to respect and love myself, not just whether or not God will forgive me.

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Honestly I do disagree with some of the statement about how it's not for everyone I think it is for everyone just some people blatantly make the choice not wait. If we have the self-control (regardless of Faith or lack thereof) then so can others just my opinion.

good point

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A lot of Christians pick and choose the parts they want to follow due to convenience.

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You'll find hypocrites on every street corner. There may be 1 million of them, 5 million, or 10 million of them - It doesn't make it right. They can go to mass three times a day, go to church every Sunday, teach Sunday School, or drown themselves in holy water. My opinion is that rituals do not make a Christian. You may have to look a little harder, but there are those who are living the life. Also, be careful about the rumors you may hear about other people's sex lives. I think the people around where I live have had me married, divorced, and a single dad. In my case, it's not just a matter of following rules. I know waiting is better for me emotionally, physicially and spiritually.

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As a Christian, I've been discouraged by this subject time after time, knowing that I am the only one of my 'christian' friends who is still waiting. Most Christians are hypocritical due to the fact that they don't feel any conviction from God once they've sinned, because they're selective about what they believe is sin and what isn't.

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I have to agree with JM about the difference between the rituals of being a Christian and the free will choices of being a Christian in the every days. Truth is it's hard to match all things together... we're human... we make mistakes, we say the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person sometimes... we make the wrong choice in the moment and act selfishly or pleasure-seeking vs doing-unto-others. I'm not offering a defense for anyone - including myself - but living the life every day can often be different than going through the rituals of church, and holy days, and what-not.

There are those who are WTM and do not really belong to a church, synagogue, temple, mosque or place of worship or religious community; there are those who are WTM and belong but attend and participate largely only on holy days and associated big events; there are those who are WTM and are very immersed in the faith of their religion as well as the outwardly practices... and there are also those who are doing any or all of those things and are NOT WTM - as you point out.

All you get to "control" though... is who you are and to the very best you can what you do, where you do it and who you do it with... Act the way you hope others do or will; act for your own integrity; act to model good behavior for those you influence or teach. :-) As JM concluded above... waiting was indeed better for me all the way around, regardless of what others were or were not doing (or what others thought I was or wasn't doing!).

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