Guest

Ask a Seventh Day Adventist

20 posts in this topic

Figured I'll do this too.

Since I doubt anyone else on this board knows or is part of my religion.

 

Just some pointers.

 

Right now there is a schism within the church between Progressives and Conservatives, the answers I'm giving are more conservative but lean closer to moderateness.

 

We are not mormons.

We are protestants.

 

Not all of us are Vegan (though I'm trying to learn how to be).

 

Ask away. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, as a Seventh Day Adventist, do you believe? As in, what beliefs set you apart from other Christian denominations? (Wait, Seventh Day Adventists are actually Christian, right? Sorry for my ignorance  :mellow: )

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, as a Seventh Day Adventist, do you believe? As in, what beliefs set you apart from other Christian denominations? (Wait, Seventh Day Adventists are actually Christian, right? Sorry for my ignorance  :mellow: )

Seventh Day Adventists are part of the Protestant branch of Christianity but with more focus on prophecy, health and the significance of God's law.

 

Some of the differences between Adventists and mainstream christianity:

I state "most" because every "adventist" is slightly different.

 

1. Most follow the health laws and don't eat meats that are listed in Leviticus.

2. Most Worship on the 7th day instead of the 1st day of the week.

3. Most believe in Sola Scriptura (Bible being God breathed)

4. Most believe in a 6 day creation (some progressives don't).

5. Health is a big focus within Adventism.

6. Most of us believe in the prophetic Ministry of Ellen G. White (which is controversial amongst other denominations, but some progressives don't believe in the ministry).

 

 

The most noticeable difference though is the belief in prophecy and the Seventh Day Sabbath

 

I suppose any question is fair game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, as a Seventh Day Adventist, do you believe? As in, what beliefs set you apart from other Christian denominations? (Wait, Seventh Day Adventists are actually Christian, right? Sorry for my ignorance  :mellow: )

 

Some that come to mind not specifically mentioned by Ringer are:

 

- Rejection of the theory of immortality of the human soul - rather than being intrinsically immortal it is actively sustained by God

- The human soul not ascending to heaven or hell immediately after death

- "Hell" as not being eternal

- Jesus Christ whilst being human having the identity of God

 

There are a number of others. If you want a good overview I recommend reading the Church's official 28 Fundamental Beliefs: https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some that come to mind not specifically mentioned by Ringer are:

 

- Rejection of the theory of immortality of the human soul - rather than being intrinsically immortal it is actively sustained by God

- The human soul not ascending to heaven or hell immediately after death

- "Hell" as not being eternal

- Jesus Christ whilst being human having the identity of God

 

There are a number of others. If you want a good overview I recommend reading the Church's official 28 Fundamental Beliefs: https://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf 

Wait hold up.

Are you an Adventist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Figured I'll do this too.

 

Since I doubt anyone else on this board knows or is part of my religion.

 

There are. You just have to look around :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do you take ellen g white as a true prophet, and consider her writings "inspired" ?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do you take ellen g white as a true prophet, and consider her writings "inspired" ?

The Church's position is that Ellen White is a prophet.

Personally I believe in her prophetic ministry, but I don't believe everything she wrote was inspired. I do believe her writings were inspired by God.

 

I've known some people in church who said her writings were from the devil, so honestly I can't give you a complete answer and I'm sorry about that. But me personally, she was inspired and many of her writings are good for explaining certain texts in the Bible along with how to stay healthy and keep away from the things of the world.

 

Unfortunately I fail quite a bit myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist. But I have a sister that is and will be going to her church starting October. I was really skeptical about them, like I was with any denomination. Because I don't know how close to "right" any of them get(if there is such a thing). But I am getting sick with not having real christian fellowship, so I decided to take this step. We'll see where God leads me. Maybe I'll start asking you some questions pretty soon, but right now I'm really curious how the religious reality around me looks like. Looking forward.  :) 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist. But I have a sister that is and will be going to her church starting October. I was really skeptical about them, like I was with any denomination. Because I don't know how close to "right" any of them get(if there is such a thing). But I am getting sick with not having real christian fellowship, so I decided to take this step. We'll see where God leads me. Maybe I'll start asking you some questions pretty soon, but right now I'm really curious how the religious reality around me looks like. Looking forward.  :)

Well, any fellowship is better than no fellowship. :)

I'll pray that you find what you're looking for, but regardless of denomination; careful study and skepticism (a healthy amount) is always needed to find the truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you feel about Dr. Carson as president?

I'm not exactly sold on it.

Let me put it this way... do I think he'll be a good president?

If there weren't political powers and evil at work, yes, but I feel that if he does become president he will change and probably for the worse. I don't believe an Adventist should hold political office, or should try for one. The more conservative Adventist belief is that one should not vote people into office because their actions may cause problems, but rather to vote on laws.

 

The more modern belief is that we vote.

 

Since you're asking how I feel about it, well I feel that Rand Paul is the better candidate but unfortunately he likely doesn't stand a chance. Dr. Ben Carson is known as a good surgeon and his belief in the Bible is great (at least from what I've heard about him, I can't verify how he is spiritually as only God can really decide that and I have had no contact with him, only an observation of him on the television), but I do hope either he or Rand Paul are able to run for president as a candidate. Reason being that I'm sick of all the career politicians and the incumbent powers that be.

 

I guess I feel deep down inside that I would like Ben Carson to win the presidency, but at the same time believe that should he win he will be pressured in ways he probably never thought he would be. Whoever becomes the president will have scrutiny beyond what would normally be reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Church's position is that Ellen White is a prophet.

Personally I believe in her prophetic ministry, but I don't believe everything she wrote was inspired. I do believe her writings were inspired by God.

 

I've known some people in church who said her writings were from the devil, so honestly I can't give you a complete answer and I'm sorry about that. But me personally, she was inspired and many of her writings are good for explaining certain texts in the Bible along with how to stay healthy and keep away from the things of the world.

 

Unfortunately I fail quite a bit myself.

sorry for the super late reply;

i actually own her book, "the great controversy ended, if you go through here writings, it raises some questions to me, for one, she says:

 

The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God (Early Writings, p. 65).

 

however, in the bible, Jesus tells us:

 

36 Master, which is the *great commandment in the law*?

37 Jesus said unto him, *Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind*.

38 *This is the first and great commandment.*

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

so we see a contradiction;

 

 

also, ellen G white has predicted the end of the world several times, in 1843,44,45,51 etc, however, it never came to pass. she writes in 1850:

 

 

Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again. Those who would not receive the mark of the beast and his image when the decree goes forth, must have now to say, Nay, we will not regard the institution of the beast (Early Writings, p.67).

 

now putting aside the fact that the bible tells us that no man knows the day or the hour, we also read this:

 

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

 

so essentially, God is saying if  what has been spoken has not come to pass, he/she is a false prophet.

 

sorry to kinda dump all this on you at once, but what do you think about this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry for the super late reply;

i actually own her book, "the great controversy ended, if you go through here writings, it raises some questions to me, for one, she says:

 

The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God (Early Writings, p. 65).

 

 

 

 

I have to underline that for you.

Changing the law makes one assume that the person "HAS" that power to change something. Therefore that person has put themselves above God, and exalted themselves as someone who can arbitrarily change laws on a whim. 

 

however, in the bible, Jesus tells us: 

 

36 Master, which is the *great commandment in the law*?

37 Jesus said unto him, *Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind*.

38 *This is the first and great commandment.*

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Anyone who can arbitrarily change any laws put forth by God is not loving Him with all His soul, which is a failure of the greatest commandment. There is no contradiction here.

 

also, ellen G white has predicted the end of the world several times, in 1843,44,45,51 etc, however, it never came to pass

​I'd like you to give me a precise quote on when she said the world would end. Making a statement like this really isn't something I should respond to since 1844 was when the first movement predicted the second coming and was wrong. Ellen White came later.

 

Unless you have a direct quote in which she states the world was going to end in 1844, I'm going to have to ignore this statement.

 

Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again. Those who would not receive the mark of the beast and his image when the decree goes forth, must have now to say, Nay, we will not regard the institution of the beast (Early Writings, p.67).

I'm not sure where it says anything that predicts "when" the end of the world will be. This quote is basically stating Jesus is coming soon, and "soon" as you know is a relative/subjective term. Time is almost finished. If you wish to disagree on something subjective like this, I can't really say anything to you about that. It's not even worth discussing as it would be a point in which communication would be mute to one side.

 

As for to the "in a few months" it's a statement that those living closer to the time of the second coming (again no set dat) will have fewer time to learn of God. It's part of the belief that in the latter rain there will be many people who are going to come forth and learn the Truth within the Bible and not harp on small things like misnomers or legalistic propositions. Sadly, most Adventists themselves don't even know this.

 

No one knows the day or the hour, but that doesn't mean that time isn't almost finished.

sorry to kinda dump all this on you at once, but what do you think about this?

 

But you haven't really dumped anything. You've just shown how so many people can easily misunderstand something and see it as truth.

 

I hope you have a good week. If you have anything further to ask I come by from time to time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to underline that for you.

Changing the law makes one assume that the person "HAS" that power to change something. Therefore that person has put themselves above God, and exalted themselves as someone who can arbitrarily change laws on a whim. 

 

Anyone who can arbitrarily change any laws put forth by God is not loving Him with all His soul, which is a failure of the greatest commandment. There is no contradiction here.

​I'd like you to give me a precise quote on when she said the world would end. Making a statement like this really isn't something I should respond to since 1844 was when the first movement predicted the second coming and was wrong. Ellen White came later.

 

Unless you have a direct quote in which she states the world was going to end in 1844, I'm going to have to ignore this statement.

 

I'm not sure where it says anything that predicts "when" the end of the world will be. This quote is basically stating Jesus is coming soon, and "soon" as you know is a relative/subjective term. Time is almost finished. If you wish to disagree on something subjective like this, I can't really say anything to you about that. It's not even worth discussing as it would be a point in which communication would be mute to one side.

 

As for to the "in a few months" it's a statement that those living closer to the time of the second coming (again no set dat) will have fewer time to learn of God. It's part of the belief that in the latter rain there will be many people who are going to come forth and learn the Truth within the Bible and not harp on small things like misnomers or legalistic propositions. Sadly, most Adventists themselves don't even know this.

 

No one knows the day or the hour, but that doesn't mean that time isn't almost finished.

But you haven't really dumped anything. You've just shown how so many people can easily misunderstand something and see it as truth.

 

I hope you have a good week. If you have anything further to ask I come by from time to time.

 

ya, i don't really come on here very often haha, but i like engaging with other denominations/religions/theists/atheists etc.

 

with regards to the pope, i fully agree with her comment about the pope; however, that is not what i am referring to. she refers to the Sabbath as the "GREATEST" commandment, however, that is wrong. loving the Lord our God is the greatest

 

"Anyone who can arbitrarily change any laws put forth by God is not loving Him with all His soul, which is a failure of the greatest commandment. There is no contradiction here."

 

i agree, the POPE is breaking that commandment, but that does not mean that keeping the Sabbath is the GREATEST commandment.

 

the dates i mentioned:

 

-and the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844.†Early Writings, p. 236.

 

-I have seen the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed." Early Writings, p. 74.

 

(you can check out more here: http://www.bible.ca/7-prophecy-blunders.htm)

 

with regards to the "few months" that is just a play on words. if i say "i will be there in a few minutes" and i show up 7 years later... well yes, technically it is "minutes" but overall, that is a false statement; likewise, if she says " will have to learn in a few months" and over 150 years go by, well that is not a true statement.

 

also, matthew 19:16 reads:

 

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 *He saith unto him, Which* ? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

why didn't Jesus tell him to keep the sabbath?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh88 check it she says "He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the *decalogue*..." The decalogue means the 10 commandments. She is only claiming it is the greatest commandment of the 10, not of all the commandments. So she doesn't contradict Jesus answer about the greatest commandment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya, i don't really come on here very often haha, but i like engaging with other denominations/religions/theists/atheists etc.

 

with regards to the pope, i fully agree with her comment about the pope; however, that is not what i am referring to. she refers to the Sabbath as the "GREATEST" commandment, however, that is wrong. loving the Lord our God is the greatest

 

And so how do you love the Lord? Read John 14:21 please.

Changing any commandment means disobeying, putting yourself before God, not following... etc.

 

-I have seen the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed." Early Writings, p. 74.

 

 

I'm still not following this "dates i mentioned" thing here because nothing here indicates a failed date or prophecy that has discernable evidence. I can't argue against something when I am not even aware of the point you're trying to make.

 

with regards to the "few months" that is just a play on words. if i say "i will be there in a few minutes" and i show up 7 years later... well yes, technically it is "minutes" but overall, that is a false statement; likewise, if she says " will have to learn in a few months" and over 150 years go by, well that is not a true statement. 

In the first quote you mentioned up there there is "we" and there is "they." what WE will wait for years, THEY will have to learn in a few months.

 

There are two subjects, so I fail to see what you're trying to argue here from your stated original point of her statements on time being wrong.

  

 

why didn't Jesus tell him to keep the sabbath?

 

 

Please refer back to John 14:21 and then Isaiah 28:13 to understand your own question.

 

And I apologize if I'm not "engaging" in discussion with you but I can't engage when there aren't any real arguments or ideas being communicated. If you were to argue about something doctrinal like "was Job perfect and sinless" then that'd be something interesting to talk about; arguing over syntax and text like this is ultimately meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry for the super late reply;

i actually own her book, "the great controversy ended, if you go through here writings, it raises some questions to me, for one, she says:

 

The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God (Early Writings, p. 65).

 

however, in the bible, Jesus tells us:

 

36 Master, which is the *great commandment in the law*?

37 Jesus said unto him, *Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind*.

38 *This is the first and great commandment.*

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

so we see a contradiction;

 

EGW refers to "the greatest commandment in the decalogue". In contrast, notice that Jesus in the verses does not list any of the decalogue as being the greatest and second greatest commandment. Read in context, the question arises from a Pharisees lawyer [as a profession, particular and legalistic] to tempt  Jesus and have him say something with which they can condemn him. I believe that all sin is equal in that all sin is the breaking of the law of god and has the equal [natural] consequence of death [see James 2:10]. If Jesus had picked one of the commandments of the decalogue and said "this is the greatest" it would imply that breaking it is worse (spiritually) than breaking the others and it would have created a hierarchy of sins which I believe contradicts scripture. But Jesus circumvents this whole schlamassel and effectively summarises the decalogue into 2 commandments: the 1st encapsulating our relationship with God [decalogue commandments 1-4] and the 2nd encapsulating our relationships with humans [5-10]. Now you might say, "hang on! Jesus has done here precisely what you said he (might have been) trying to avoid: creating a hierarchy". But consider: will not a genuine keeping of the 1st result automatically in a keeping of the 2nd? the 2nd are a fruit of the 1st. And is not a keeping of the 2nd dependent on receiving power from God through the 1st commandment [unless you believe you can keep commandments 5-10 without God's assistance]? When it comes to keeping the commandments of the decalogue none is greater than the other.However, that doesn't mean that commandments can't bear differing significance (greatness) on other grounds. Consider:

 

That it is the only commandment that defines God as the living God who created everything. 

 

Observing the Sabbath is also a sign that you understand that you cannot in and of yourself fulfill the Law - you have to rest in the power that God gives you to obey. [Hebrews: 1-11]

 

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you...16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever [see also Ezekiel 20]. Are any of the other commandments so singled out?

 

The sabbath being a sign (or a seal - Romans 4:11) is significant in the context of the anti-christ and what the mark (or sign or seal) of the anti-christ is and the anti-christs' war against the commandment keeping people as written in Revelation. The anti-christ seeks to change God's laws and times - the only law that concerns time is the Sabbath commandment. From this element alone it holds a significance above the others as a distinguishing commandment. 

 

Does this answer your query? Revelation is a complex study but if you have any questions by all means shoot either here or PM. The Great Controversy though should give you a pretty good idea of it. Its a great book!

 

 

 also, matthew 19:16 reads:

 

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 *He saith unto him, Which* ? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

why didn't Jesus tell him to keep the sabbath?

 

Jesus also did not mention the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 10th commandment yet I've never heard anyone argue that these are somehow exempt because Jesus didn't mention them. From what transpired in the story we see that he has not submitted himself fully to God. He may have the appearance of discipleship/faith but it lacks substance. Earthly things are more important to him. When I compare the commandments that Jesus listed and the ones he left out I think that in itself was a bit of a commentary/rebuke. The young man has kept the commandments that are directed towards governing the relationship between fellow man and which if he failed to uphold them would condemn him the most in the eyes of others as not being "faithful" meanwhile the commandments that are less seen [except grantedly the sabbath though I do not think this person was keeping the sabbath properly in spirit and hence maybe Jesus kept it out as well;] are neglected in Jesus' list and this might indicate their neglect in the young man's life. Note also that the young man doesn't bring up that Jesus didn't mention these. Wouldn't you expect at least a "Why didn't you mention these other ones?" If he knew he wasn't keeping the unmentioned ones it makes sense that he doesn't want them brought up. That's just my view of reading over it - if that doesn't answer your question i can study into it :) But I'm guessing your real question is: is the sabbath commandment still relevant/unchanged from the old testament in the new testament??

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello ringer... I am an Adventist too. Am a new member and I enjoyed your discussions on Ellen White. I think the idea that Ellen White predicted end of the world is in reference to the millerite movement which believed Christ would come in 1844. That was not Ellen White. Her visions started after the disappointment of 22 October 1844. According to William Miller the world was ending around 1843-1844 because of his calculations of Daniel 8:14. That's a whole long study but I hope the point will be taken.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now