Buster Cannon

NYC pastor's list of men/women to avoid marrying

28 posts in this topic

My point is simply that there being exceptions to an instruction doesn't mean the instruction isn't in there. For instance, the Israelites were commanded not to kill, and yet, as we know, God also commanded them to kill people quite frequently, but we can't accurately say there's no commandment not to kill.

 

Have a look at this article which explains the commandment not to kill is a commandment not to murder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill 

 

 

My point is simply that there being exceptions to an instruction doesn't mean the instruction isn't in there. 

 

As for Eph 5:24, there is the commandment that wives be subject to their husbands in everything. What "everything" entails is a matter for each person's heart, but the scripture states what it states, and I think we should be wary of reading our interpretation into the wording, since some people may not know the Bible as well as others. Rather, people should be directed to what scripture actually states first, and then they can be "convinced in their own minds" (Romans 14:5) from there. 

 

 

Ephesians 5:24: Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

 

To take one verse, or in your case a part of one verse, and to say that therefore a certain command exists is a bad case of reading out of context. At best you could say that "part of a verse commands that wives be subject to their husbands in everything" even that is far stretched because you cannot cut out the bolded section of the verse below without the rest making ANY sense so you would have to say "a [warped] paraphrase of part of a verse commands that wives be subject to their husbands in everything". 

 

Rules, conditions, and exceptions to commands are PART OF THE COMMAND because without them you are presenting something incomplete and out of context.

 

Consider if you read a part of Matthew 27:5 "and [Judas] departed, and went and hanged himself" and part of Luke 10:37 "Go, and do though likewise"......Oh no! Scripture is commanding me to hang myself!

 

Even if we restricted the analysis to only Ephesians 5:24 it does not present an absolute command for wives to be subject to their husbands in everything to say so would be to ignore the first and very important section of the verse which presents a context/condition to any possible command: "as the church is subject unto Christ". 

 

Even so, does the verse actually create a command at all? Finding the greek definition of this instance of "let" has been somewhat futile but may I suggest that "let" is a very soft word so that it might be more suggested as a counsel. "Let your children play in dirt" cannot be created into a command "Your children should/must play in dirt". Furthermore, to use words like "everything" without expounding on what that "every thing" means in that verse and simply applying the modern english definition of "every thing" misrepresents the true meaning according to Expositor's Greek Testament which states it refers to everything pertaining to the marriage-relation. What that exactly excludes or includes is a whole issue in itself.

 

So at best you could say "an incompletely, verbatim, paraphrase of part of a verse of the English translation....."

 

Is anyone else with me on this or am I not making any sense?

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Rules, conditions, and exceptions to commands are PART OF THE COMMAND because without them you are presenting something incomplete and out of context.

 

There are no exceptions mentioned there, though, and in fact, I don't know of any exceptions mentioned in anywhere in scripture, do you?

 

 

Even if we restricted the analysis to only Ephesians 5:24 it does not present an absolute command for wives to be subject to their husbands in everything to say so would be to ignore the first and very important section of the verse which presents a context/condition to any possible command: "as the church is subject unto Christ". 

 

As far as I can figure, the last part of this sentence actually works to disprove the first part. That is, is the church not subject to Christ in absolutely everything? Are there exceptions to being in subjection to Christ?

 

 

Even so, does the verse actually create a command at all?

Yes, being in submission and subjection to Christ is not optional if one is truly interested in serving God. Since the Christ/church model is the one we're given, we have no reason to believe that it's optional for marriage either (again, if one is truly interested in serving God and doing what's right).

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There are no exceptions mentioned there, though, and in fact, I don't know of any exceptions mentioned in anywhere in scripture, do you?

 

 

 

As far as I can figure, the last part of this sentence actually works to disprove the first part. That is, is the church not subject to Christ in absolutely everything? Are there exceptions to being in subjection to Christ?

 

Yes, being in submission and subjection to Christ is not optional if one is truly interested in serving God. Since the Christ/church model is the one we're given, we have no reason to believe that it's optional for marriage either (again, if one is truly interested in serving God and doing what's right).

 

So now we are back to the meaning of the verse....

 

Since we have derailed this thread I have continued the discussion here: http://forums.waitingtillmarriage.org/topic/5124-the-bible-wifely-submission/ 

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