Article - Practical ways to improve your attractiveness and desirability for a Christian spouse

[Buster Cannon 1,432]

Came across this article, has a lot of good advice IMO.

 

I initially wrote this a while ago and posted it on Boundless, and it was summarily deleted. It was commented on in these two places but it is worthy of its own post here:

 

http://societyofphineas.wordpress.com/2013/11/14/a-woman-wants-a-king-not-a-peasant/

 

http://sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/truthful-dating-and-relationship-advice-is-terribly-sexist-does-that-mean-reality-is-sexist-too/

 

—————–

 

To the women.

 

What men are attracted to: physical beauty. All things being equal (spiritual characteristics, femininity, etc.) a man will pick the most attractive female.

 

The good thing, however, is that all men have different tastes for what they find attractive. Some like black hair, some like brown, some like blonds, some like redheads. Some like different color eyes, some like different types of body shapes.

 

However, one of the things that turns most men off (note: most not all) is being overweight or obese. If you are overweight or obese and you want to have men ask you out I would suggest losing weight through good nutrition and exercise. The same would be true for men. Women don’t want a man who is overweight or obese.

 

Again, all things being equal all men and all women would prefer to have their spouse be physically active and healthy.

 

This is not to say personality does not matter. It does. If there is a attractive woman that nags, is entitled, and otherwise makes a man’s life a pain in the butt then these are qualities in her personality that will make him drop her as a potential mate.

 

Being spiritual is not an excuse to ignore the physical, and neither is being physical fit an excuse to ignore the spiritual. You want both. Be as physically attractive as you can, and seek after God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

 

Note: All of the tenets that feminism pushes onto women such as confidence, independence, strong attitude, etc in women is a turnoff for most men. We are looking for a spouse, not a business partner.

 

Conclusion: Women your physical beauty will get you in the door, and your personality and spirituality will make him want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

 

—————–

 

To the men.

 

What women are attracted to: lots of different things including looks, athleticism, talent (musical and otherwise), high status, masculine personality, money, etc.

 

Proportions of these depend on the woman and you have no way to telling. However, the most important one to develop is a confident masculine personality, although the others are nice to have and can/should be worked on. The easiest way to improve your confidence is your posture, working out, etc.

 

Remember this men: your confidence is displayed in your posture, your walk, and your tone of voice. Studies show that non-verbals are 50-90% of the conversation. You can have all of the confidence in the world, but if it is not reflected in your body language you will fail.

 

If a Christian man goes up to a Christian woman with slumped shoulders, a downcast look in his eyes, is fidgting, and speaks quickly with a high tone of voice “let’s go out on a date†is he going to be successful? Absolutely not.

 

On the other hand, if a Christian man goes up to a Christian woman with his shoulders back, a smile on his face, makes direct eye contact with her, and says in a low tone masculine voice†“let’s go out on a date†is he going to be successful? A much higher percentage that the woman will say yes.

 

Easy ways you can work on your non-verbals and confidence from another commenter:

 

1. Start working out. Heavy weights to build muscle

 

2. Fix your nutrition if you’re overweight/obese. Add in more protein to help gain muscle

 

3. Work on your posture. Don’t slouch. Ever.

 

4. Work on your walking. Long strides, confidently. When you’re making any actions, slow and deliberate. If you have any nervous movement such as scratching, wiggling, RLS, etc eliminate it completely.

 

5. Become comfortable with space. When you’re sitting down instead of crossing legs or arms over yourself spread legs out and put your arm up on the chair. Get comfortable and relaxed in these power poses.

 

6. Make eye contact with everyone. Hold it and don’t look away first. Smile if you lock on for a few seconds and it continues. Never look down when talking to a woman as this indicates to her that [you are submissive to her].

 

7. Speak more slowly and deliberately so that your voice is lower in tone.

 

Obviously, these things are important, but more important is your spiritual walk. As is stated in Scripture about Jesus: “They were amazed at his teaching, because his words had authority.â€

 

As a masculine, CHRISTIAN man you should be studying the Word, praying, meditating, fasting, etc so as to become more like Jesus. You should know the Scriptures well enough to speak with authority on your faith. If you don’t know the Scriptures or the power of God then how are you to be a responsible leader in your marriage?

 

Conclusion: Men your masculine personality and confidence will get you in the door, and your ability to lead her spiritually will make her want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

 

—————–

 

Final conclusion: Both sexes should work on being more physically attractive and spiritually attractive.

 

However, men and women are different in what they look for in attractiveness. You need to know the population you are trying to sell yourself to if you wanted to get married.

 

Thoughts?

[Guest JDmantel]

I saw a post from a girl somewhere with a sneezing fetish. In order to get her i'd just have to be around dust...

[Guest JDmantel]

But yeah I've suffered knee ligament damage with a few other injuries, I've gone from having a pretty good body and being fit to putting on weight and having to watch my diet. You just feel better with a bit of muscle and less fat and that obviously breeds confidence, hardly rocket science. Slowly starting to play football again and doing some pull ups and stuff. In terms of what I like I have a wide range of women I find attractive. I don't have a 'type' or a thread running through women i'm attracted to physically. I prefer thin but I've been attracted to curvy and overweight. Though I have noticed that's when I had the six pack etc. Now i'm more attracted to slim girls. Maybe I just like something different to myself but overall i go for slim..

 

As for walking and posture I've never even thought of stuff like that. As for voice how can you change that? I'm not trying to imitate Christian Bale doing Batman, with a guttural growl for a voice!

[bethreny 501]

This article kinda rubbed me the wrong way...I mean I don't think people need to be told that in order to attract someone, they need to be attractive...

Also, saying that most men don't want a woman who is confident...I mean I guess it could be true for many that they don't want one who is over confident. But I highly doubt that men want an insecure woman. That hasn't been my experience, anyways. My BF likes smart and independent women. Independence doesn't mean that I am disconnected, it just means that up until this point I have been responsible and resourceful, able to function on my own. (I don't label myself as a feminist, but I kinda took that as a slam against me or people like me)

Also the guidelines for men seemed a little cookie cutter. Just like men, women have different preferences. Sometimes I have found awkward guys really cute. Not all women want a guy who looks like he works out.

And the eye contact thing...gave me flashbacks to men who were very into eye contact while asking me out. Have to say, it doesn't work for me. I like a guy who is a little bit shy. I think it's adorable. There is nothing wrong with breaking eye contact first, unless your goal is to intimidate the other person.

I'm not saying everything in the article was wrong, and the spiritual side is important too. The stuff i found irritating made it hard for me to accept the whole thing :-P

Just as a final note, I do agree with the part about taking care of yourself and being healthy. Not disagreeing with that, maybe i just dont like how it was presented. But maybe there is no perfect way to do it!

[wny 929]

Most of the advice for guys sounded more general and obvious than particularly Christian. Christian women like muscular confident guys? Oh, surprise, haha. I guess they're like every other woman out there.

[29K 1,541]

The advice seemed pretty generic and obvious, boiling down to just 'be physically and spritually attractive'. It also assumed that everyone finds the same physical and personality traits appealing when in reality attraction is far more complex.

Unsurprisingly () the paragraph that criticises feminist traits such as confidence, independance and a strong attitude really ruffled my feathers. Traits like these are often developed at a very early age and have nothing to do with the influence of feminism. I have always been fiercely independent (the confidence came much later after much soul searching) and would have been this way no matter what environment I was raised in. To get women with personalities like this to change entirely just to attract a man is unrealistic and a recipe for future unhappiness and resentment.

[Buster Cannon 1,432]

I think the confidence part could have been worded better; it's definitely a good thing to not be insecure with yourself. It gets unattractive when a woman has that "I'm a strong independent woman who don't need no man" attitude. A lack of grace and willingness to be led/taught is definitely a turnoff.

[Jegsy Scarr 3,521]

Uh...Yeah, a lot of this article just seems kind of weird...

 

To the women.

 

What men are attracted to: physical beauty. All things being equal (spiritual characteristics, femininity, etc.) a man will pick the most attractive female.

 

The good thing, however, is that all men have different tastes for what they find attractive. Some like black hair, some like brown, some like blonds, some like redheads. Some like different color eyes, some like different types of body shapes.

 

Okay, let me try to sum up what I've learned so far: Men like attractive women, but men find different things attractive. So in other words, this advice boils down to: "You have blonde hair and blue eyes? Very good - some men will find that attractive." That's not really advice, then, if what it means by attractive is "having a hair and eye colour that some men like." Okay, I have light brown hair and hazel eyes, which some men like, so that means I'm attractive.

 

However, one of the things that turns most men off (note: most not all) is being overweight or obese. If you are overweight or obese and you want to have men ask you out I would suggest losing weight through good nutrition and exercise. The same would be true for men. Women don’t want a man who is overweight or obese.

 

Again, all things being equal all men and all women would prefer to have their spouse be physically active and healthy.

 

This seems pretty common-sense, doesn't it? But then, they're saying that all men and women prefer healthy spouses. They're thinking in terms of being obese, but if you're otherwise unhealthy through no fault of your own (e.g. medical condition), I'm not sure what good this advice would be for you.

 

This is not to say personality does not matter. It does. If there is a attractive woman that nags, is entitled, and otherwise makes a man’s life a pain in the butt then these are qualities in her personality that will make him drop her as a potential mate.

 

I'm still not getting how this "advice" is anything other than common sense. Men don't want horrible women as wives even if they're beautiful...well, duh.

 

Being spiritual is not an excuse to ignore the physical, and neither is being physical fit an excuse to ignore the spiritual. You want both. Be as physically attractive as you can, and seek after God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

 

"Be as physically attractive as you can" - okay, you've still not made it clear what "physically attractive" means, other than "don't be fat, and continue to have whatever colour of hair and eyes you have."

 

Note: All of the tenets that feminism pushes onto women such as confidence, independence, strong attitude, etc in women is a turnoff for most men. We are looking for a spouse, not a business partner.

 

"Confidence" is a turnoff? Over-confidence, sure, but just saying "confidence" is pretty vague. I mean, I can get up in front of a group of people and sing a song, which I guess means I have confidence, but I doubt that's what it means. Ditto with "independence" and "strong attitude" - just too darn vague.

 

Conclusion: Women your physical beauty will get you in the door, and your personality and spirituality will make him want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

 

If you're not "physically beautiful" (but I still don't know what that means), then I guess you're never going to get married.

 

To the men.

 

What women are attracted to: lots of different things including looks, athleticism, talent (musical and otherwise), high status, masculine personality, money, etc.

 

Proportions of these depend on the woman and you have no way to telling. However, the most important one to develop is a confident masculine personality, although the others are nice to have and can/should be worked on. The easiest way to improve your confidence is your posture, working out, etc.

 

Again, is this not just common sense? And I love how vague it all is: women are attracted to "lots of different things including..." but this depends on the woman and "you have no way to telling".

 

Remember this men: your confidence is displayed in your posture, your walk, and your tone of voice. Studies show that non-verbals are 50-90% of the conversation. You can have all of the confidence in the world, but if it is not reflected in your body language you will fail.

 

If a Christian man goes up to a Christian woman with slumped shoulders, a downcast look in his eyes, is fidgting, and speaks quickly with a high tone of voice “let’s go out on a date” is he going to be successful? Absolutely not.

 

On the other hand, if a Christian man goes up to a Christian woman with his shoulders back, a smile on his face, makes direct eye contact with her, and says in a low tone masculine voice” “let’s go out on a date” is he going to be successful? A much higher percentage that the woman will say yes.

 

??? A "low tone masculine voice" telling me "Let's go out on a date" rather than asking me if I want to go on a date? That sounds kind of creepy.

 

Easy ways you can work on your non-verbals and confidence from another commenter:

 

1. Start working out. Heavy weights to build muscle

 

But...I don't like really muscle-y men. I like guys who look like librarians, or violinists, or opera ghosts.

 

2. Fix your nutrition if you’re overweight/obese. Add in more protein to help gain muscle

 

But...I don't like really...oh, forget it. Plus, isn't "Lose weight if you're overweight" common sense?

 

3. Work on your posture. Don’t slouch. Ever.

 

Wow, that sounds like a threat.

 

4. Work on your walking. Long strides, confidently. When you’re making any actions, slow and deliberate. If you have any nervous movement such as scratching, wiggling, RLS, etc eliminate it completely.

 

Doesn't the long strides thing make it sound like a gorilla? Like a chimpanzee at a tea-party, getting slapped on the back of the head repeatedly by its trainer: "Stop scratching your fur for bugs, and pour the tea like a good chimp."

 

5. Become comfortable with space. When you’re sitting down instead of crossing legs or arms over yourself spread legs out and put your arm up on the chair. Get comfortable and relaxed in these power poses.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa...This writer is telling guys to sit in chairs with their legs wide open? That's one of the most off-putting things I see guys doing, sitting there across from me like he's trying to show off his thingy, or just say, "Look at me, I'm a man, I want to fertilise all your eggs." Please don't do this.

 

6. Make eye contact with everyone. Hold it and don’t look away first. Smile if you lock on for a few seconds and it continues. Never look down when talking to a woman as this indicates to her that [you are submissive to her].

 

I bet in practice, this is really creepy.

 

7. Speak more slowly and deliberately so that your voice is lower in tone.

 

Or, make her think that you think she's stupid.

 

Obviously, these things are important, but more important is your spiritual walk. As is stated in Scripture about Jesus: “They were amazed at his teaching, because his words had authority.”

 

As a masculine, CHRISTIAN man you should be studying the Word, praying, meditating, fasting, etc so as to become more like Jesus. You should know the Scriptures well enough to speak with authority on your faith. If you don’t know the Scriptures or the power of God then how are you to be a responsible leader in your marriage?

 

Conclusion: Men your masculine personality and confidence will get you in the door, and your ability to lead her spiritually will make her want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

 

Again, this must be awful for all the guys who struggle with insecurity who think this means they're not going to find a woman who'll want to marry them.

 

Final conclusion: Both sexes should work on being more physically attractive and spiritually attractive.

 

However, men and women are different in what they look for in attractiveness. You need to know the population you are trying to sell yourself to if you wanted to get married.

 

Seriously, this is just common sense. I have learned nothing from this article, except how to walk like a gorilla.

 

xxx

[29K 1,541]

It gets unattractive when a woman has that "I'm a strong independent woman who don't need no man" attitude. A lack of grace and willingness to be led/taught is definitely a turnoff.

I'm definitely a woman with that type of attitude - I don't NEED a man for anything as I have my life together and can more than cope with its demands alone. I do however WANT to share my life with someone but I personally would not want to be totally reliant on a man for anything. I feel that would leave me in a precarious position if my husband left or passed away. I've heard about so many cases of women in that situation where they have found themselves suddenly alone and feel quite unprepared to support themselves after years of everything being taken care of by their husband.

I also have no desire to be led or taught by my husband, nor do I have any desire to lead or teach him. To me this dynamic better represents a parent/child relationship than that between a husband and wife. We are both adults with our own thoughts, opinions and desires and I fail to see why the husband, by virtue of possessing a Y chromosome, should feel that his opinions are more 'right' for the family to follow. I believe all issues should be discussed to reach a conclusion that both partners are in agreement with.

I know that I am in the minority on this site with my stance on this issue! If it turns off a large swathe of the male population then that's something I just have to accept as I genuinely would be deeply unhappy in a relationship with such a dynamic. I have had relationships with men in the past who have been attracted to the fact that I am so independent and opinionated. I just need to find another man with this type of attitude and marry him!

[uriah32 8]

You all are hating on this post. While yes it fairly was obvious things it also shows how to easily make yourself more attractive. Just be in shape, or at least not overweight. Seriously, thats half the battle! Hair color and stuff is out of your control. Just being fit makes you look so much more attractive. Yes, some people have been blessed better than others in the looks catagory but how many times have you seen people with someone else that you figured would have had no chance with them? I see it every day, every person finds different things attractive.

Also, the feminist paragraph, while worded not so good, is priceless. Us guys want girls with those traits for the most part, just not a feminist who takes all of those characteristics overboard. There is no bigger turnoff then a feminist. I would rather hear that a girl I'm dating is an ex prostitute than a feminist. Because at the root of it all feminism is the cause of why less men are marrying today, and it causes men to have an easier time walking out on a marriage than in previous years (no it is not the sole root of it, ultimately it is the man's fault for doing it but feminism adds to the cause).

So yeah I really didn't think it was that bad an article. Although I would agree, I don't know why it was put in the Christian forum.

[29K 1,541]

@uriah32 - I must be your worst nightmare then!

[Steadfast Madcap 3,216]

Also, the feminist paragraph, while worded not so good, is priceless. Us guys want girls with those traits for the most part, just not a feminist who takes all of those characteristics overboard. There is no bigger turnoff then a feminist. I would rather hear that a girl I'm dating is an ex prostitute than a feminist. Because at the root of it all feminism is the cause of why less men are marrying today, and it causes men to have an easier time walking out on a marriage than in previous years (no it is not the sole root of it, ultimately it is the man's fault for doing it but feminism adds to the cause).]

 

My boyfriend digs my feminism, and is pretty intent on marrying me, so. Â¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also have no desire to be led or taught by my husband, nor do I have any desire to lead or teach him. To me this dynamic better represents a parent/child relationship than that between a husband and wife. We are both adults with our own thoughts, opinions and desires and I fail to see why the husband, by virtue of possessing a Y chromosome, should feel that his opinions are more 'right' for the family to follow.

 

Yes, this. I recently mentioned in another thread that I find the idea of a "man = teacher, woman = student" dynamic in the bedroom to be nauseating; well, I feel that same way about everything in the relationship.

 

I actually didn't have much of an issue with the article as a whole though. I suppose since it's labeled as Christian dating advice, and I'm neither Christian nor dating, I don't feel like it was meant for people like me anyway.  I do feel like I've let myself go in recent years though, so I should probably do my boyfriend a favor and work on getting back into shape.... 

[GodsPhysicist 476]

In seeing some of the revulsion in the responses to the article, I had a thought.

 

Has anyone considered that one who is a WTM'r might be having a revulsion reaction to the article because one, in fact, is not liking what one must change in oneself in order to be more attactive?  Perhaps this might be why one might still be a WTM'r?

 

Personally, I find the article quite helpful in informing me what would make me more attractive.  I look at all the things I focus on in life that I think make me a better person, and, if fact, not all of them make me more attractive.  As a driven but humble person, I am inclined to change something whenever I am not getting the results I really want in life.  I have read some of the suggestions in the article.  I find I have far too often made excuses to making my own body language more important, to name one example of something I would like to change.

 

I find the article basically says and asks me: "Annnd...that's why you're single!  Are you going to change the way you handle your non-verbal communication so you can get better results?"  To the article, therefore, I say back: "I am grateful that you write something that is difficult for me to read in response to the answers to honest questions I have a hard time asking."  I am an example of someone that a woman can keep, but I still must improve my body language to advertise that properly.

 

Also, I find that whenever I am open about the things that I would like to change about myself and admit it, people often are more at ease to re-evaluate themselves knowing they aren't the only ones who struggle with change.

 

I hope my comments can invite others to liberate themselves from their fears of being honest about what they struggle with.  I think this is an important issue because all of us WTM'rs can use any good advice we can get to support each other in achieving satisfying and fulfilling marriages.  I think being more attractive is just one more thing that gives us just a little more light at the end of a long tunnel that waits for marriage.

 

Let's be honest with each other about how we can improve ourselves...

[Bashful_dove48 60]

You know I've never felt the need to look attractive to catch a guys' attention. I'll dress up for myself once in awhile or when the occasion calls for it, but other than that I'm very natural. No make up, natural wavy hair (sometimes poofy hair), and T-shirt and jeans. I like to be comfortable and always felt that if a guy likes my natural looks, rather than "pretty girls" with make up and perfect curves, that's the type of guy I'd want to be with. Someone who likes me in my true and natural state because this is the face God gave me that he is going to wake up to every day when we marry.

For about 4 months now God has blessed me with a boyfriend who did noticed me despite the fact I never wore make up or dressed up much. I didn't feel the need to act girlier to get his attention (he already liked me). I knew I just had to be myself and pray about it. The day before we got tofether he called me beautiful and still tells me I'm beautiful not just because of my looks but because of my heart as well.

I'm not against make up or looking nice, but what's also important is not being ashamed of the natural looks God gave you.

[Mirage 1,001]

Also, the feminist paragraph, while worded not so good, is priceless. Us guys want girls with those traits for the most part, just not a feminist who takes all of those characteristics overboard. There is no bigger turnoff then a feminist. I would rather hear that a girl I'm dating is an ex prostitute than a feminist. Because at the root of it all feminism is the cause of why less men are marrying today, and it causes men to have an easier time walking out on a marriage than in previous years (no it is not the sole root of it, ultimately it is the man's fault for doing it but feminism adds to the cause).

So yeah I really didn't think it was that bad an article. Although I would agree, I don't know why it was put in the Christian forum.

Woah woah woah. Speak for yourself. Confident, independent, well-spoken women are very attractive to me. And what's with this hate on feminism?

Also this is the Religious Topics forum, not the Christian forum. Christianity is not the only religion.

[Buster Cannon 1,432]

For what it's worth, the author of the article posted a follow-up article addressing the inquiries in the area of independence:

https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2015/05/01/independent-versus-self-sufficient-and-responsible/

@Jegsy:

I think you took some of the author's pints to the logical extreme lol. Just a few notes based on your post:

- In general, lifting heavy weights doesn't turn you into a super muscle-y dude. You'll look leaner and more toned, but getting huge is something entirely different.

- Speaking slowly in terms of not rushing your words, not sounding like a condescending jerk lol. As someone who's struggled with talking too fast in the past, the worst thing that can happen is someone asking you to repeat yourself. Speaking slowly and more deliberately gives your audience the opportunity to follow along with you comfortably

- Sitting with your legs slightly open is much different than going full spread eagle. The point is that you want to look comfortable in your surroundings, not hunched up and timid

- If a guy struggles with insecurity thinking that he might not get married, he needs to work on that. Part of developing attractiveness for a man involves building confidence. As a Christian, his confidence should come first and foremost from God, but also through overcoming challenges, taking steps to improve in weak areas, etc.

- A lot of this stuff may look like common sense, but as the saying goes, common sense isn't so common. You'd be surprised at the attitudes/assumptions of the average church goer

[29K 1,541]

That response was something else, lol. Clearly this guy knows it all and has a far better understanding of what women think and want than the women themselves. 

 

Apart from being incredibly patronising, the post shows such a lack of understanding of women it's actually funny. The part where he talks about how women 'ape masculine behaviours such as independence because they think it's attractive to men' is ludicrous.  My independence is a deeply engrained part of my personality and I have been the same way since early childhood, far before the time when I even gave a thought to what men may or may not find appealing.  Some people are just made this way! It's certainly not a calculated behaviour designed to attract a man.

 

I'm proud of the person that I am and am certainly not going to change it for anyone.  If that puts off vast swathes of men from dating me then I couldn't care less.  Ultimately they're doing me a favour by not wasting their time on me as I couldn't imagine how deeply unhappy a relationship with a man who resented or tried to stifle such a major part of my self would be.

[Steadfast Madcap 3,216]

Apart from being incredibly patronising, the post shows such a lack of understanding of women it's actually funny.

 

He literally wrote a post called "Why I Don't Respect Women," so I don't get how he feels he's authorized to speak from a woman's perspective at all.

 

From him:

"Women can’t tell tha [sic] they’re attracted to power, status, athleticism, looks, and money. Perhaps they’re afraid that if they admit it they look shallow so it’s self preservation."

 

Wow. So it doesn't matter if I think I'm attracted to kind, selfless, skinny dudes, this guy is here to set me straight about how I really feel. I didn't care too much about the original article one way or the other but going through his site he seems like a real piece of work.

[Jegsy Scarr 3,521]

@Jegsy:

I think you took some of the author's pints to the logical extreme lol.

 

lol! I know, I think I started off seriously, then just had fun with it...

 

xxx

[bethreny 501]

The author is trying to change how we use the english language. He is equating the definition of Greek words with english ones, disregarding how they are typically used today. Like in his post "Why I Don't Respect Women"

I think a comment by Geoff at the bottom of that article makes a good point of it (sorry cant get the quote box to work on my phone)

"I’m aware of the utility of Greek. But, in general, even among very conservative men, if you told one of them, “I don’t respect your wife†the average understanding, unaffected by feminism, but more affected by general usage, would be a punch in the face.

The Scriptures do reveal God’s truth, but they don’t (as you know by using Greek) determine English word usage. I just typically try to avoid confusion when I can when talking about potentially life threatening matters."

Regardless of how I feel about his overall message, I find it very difficult to listen to this guy solely because of this.

JMO

[Jegsy Scarr 3,521]

Oh, gosh, he's got an article on why he doesn't think a man can rape his wife...

 

https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/is-there-marital-rape-or-not/

 

In summary, regarding the possibility of “forced” sex in a Christian marriage:

 

• One spouse is in sin (the one refusing) and one is not (the one doing the forcing),
• but both are not walking according to the Spirit of Christianity and one flesh.

 

In reality, what usually happens is:

 

• One spouse refuses sex (and is in sin), and the other spouse becomes indignant and responds not out of love (while lawful, not with the fruits of the Spirit) but doesn’t force sex.
• One spouse is in open rebellion against Christ and their eternal soul is in danger (the one refusing sex), and the other is a Pharisee who holds the law over love even when they have the authority to do that what they want (the one who wants sex but responds not out of love).

 

What should happen is:

 

• The refusing spouse should know the Scriptures or be enlightened to the Scriptures and repent.
• The initiating spouse should respond out of love by correcting with the Scriptures, and explaining/teaching them if they are unaware. If they continue in rebellion then potentially meting out consequences as necessary.

 

This issue is complicated because it accurately highlights three different categories:

 

• Rebellion against God (the one refusing to have sex in marriage).
• The letter of the law of God (the non-sinful and lawful potential to force a spouse to have sex).
• The Spirit of God and Christianity (the desire to have both spouses choose to have sex willingly and enthusiastically of their own free will).

 

In reality, we are prone to thinking of life in context of only two categories: good and bad. However, often we want to do good, but we follow the letter of the law instead of the Spirit of God. This means it comes off as legalistic or mean-spirited even if it is the Truth.

 

[...] [long bible quote]

 

It is of first importance, even if we know the Truth, to minister to people where they are. Not impress upon them the Truth that they may not know or not be able to handle at that point in time.

 

Is it important to know that there is no such thing as marital rape? Sure. But it is more important that people don’t divorce.

 

Note: If you couldn’t understand what this post is advocating then here is the final conclusion:

 

If a Christian husband or wife wants to force themselves on their spouse then they are more like a Pharisee (obey the letter of the law) than Jesus (He who embodies the Spirit of the law). As Christians, even though we know it is lawful, we want to be like Jesus.

 

That’s the reason why forcing sex on the spouse is a sin. It’s a sin of hypocrisy.

 

I personally cannot think of any instance that I’ve heard of where Christians who are walking the walk have forced themselves on their spouses.

 

 

(Bolded emphasis is mine)

 

So basically, the best he can say is, "Well, forcing your wife to have sex isn't bad. It's just not good."

 

It's especially troubling considering that his "ideal" scenario of how a husband should act if his wife refuses sex is still that if all else fails, "potentially meting out consequences as necessary." This is considered by the author to be "responding out of love" in a Jesus-like way. I have no idea how he envisions a husband "meting out consequences."

 

Also, the fact that there's absolutely no indication given that a wife might have perfectly good reasons to refuse sex that's aren't sinful. He just says Refusing sex = a sin, and leaves it at that. So if we take this article to its logical conclusion, if a wife refuses to have sex with her husband because her doctor told her not to have sex for a while (e.g. after she gave birth), that's a sin, and her husband can force her to have sex against her will, and certainly if he's tried to reason with her about it and she's still refusing. Presumably, he can have sex with her even if she's kicking and screaming that she doesn't want to, and it's still the wife who's sinning, regardless of reasons for refusing sex.

 

I...I can't even...

 

xxx

[Steadfast Madcap 3,216]

Oh, gosh, he's got an article on why he doesn't think a man can rape his wife...

 

Some of the comments on that one are seriously disturbing.

 

"My take on the marital rape paradigm is that it is a legal fiction invented by feminism as a way to try and keep men under their command. Historically amongst other things it is my view that when a woman agrees to marry that she is agreeing to spread her legs for the rest of her life whenever her husband wants her to."

 

Yeah, these guys don't want a loving partner, they want a f*ck toy that can cook them breakfast in the morning. To me, that is truly the greatest perversion of marriage.

 

Also, this guy isn't even married or in a long-term relationship, so I don't know why he feels authorized to dish out so much dating and marital advice....

[Johnny 261]

Oh, no, Buster, you introduced manosphere blogs onto this board! Such a move could potentially break the Internet! Well, at least, it could cause this thread to be moved to Controversial Topics. In fact, I think most threads on these forums could appropriately be moved there at some point.

[Johnny 261]

As far as a woman being independent, confident, etc, go, I think men are fine with women who display these traits by being responsible and sociable, but the problem comes in when women who are ostensibly trying to attract men feel the need to say they are these things. When I was doing the online dating site thing, I can't tell you how many profiles I read in which the women stated little more than that they were strong and independent. Now, how would a woman feel if a man said or wrote that he was "strong and independent?" Why would he even feel the need to bring such things up? Wouldn't bringing them up (and especially if they're some of the few things you mention about yourself) actually be indicators of insecurity? 

[zoyuxi 70]

Cue: