PG1

Chivalry. Dead or Dormant?

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I am sorry that you feel that way. I'm also very sorry, because I really don't know how to respond. Or, what advice might be given. The only thing I know, for certain, is that there are many many kinds of people in the world. Unfortunately, I don't think I have the right experience, or thoughts, to be able to be able to effectively help you. All I do know is this, God has a plan. Having faith in that plan, now that's the tricky part. I wish I could be of more help.

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It's ok. I like being on here with all of the good people. Just knowing that there are women who are waiting is a big relief. :)

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Dave, I say this as kindly and genuinely as possible, but have you considered seeing a therapist?

 

The posts in this thread are not the first time you have exhibited low self-esteem, and I wonder if that is interfering with your ability to meet or attract women. Vince wrote some great stuff about not allowing yourself to be taken advantage of, and also not getting too jaded by your negative experiences. I just think that maybe talking to a therapist could help you feel more confident and also less pessimistic.

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Dave, I say this as kindly and genuinely as possible, but have you considered seeing a therapist?

 

The posts in this thread are not the first time you have exhibited low self-esteem, and I wonder if that is interfering with your ability to meet or attract women. Vince wrote some great stuff about not allowing yourself to be taken advantage of, and also not getting too jaded by your negative experiences. I just think that maybe talking to a therapist could help you feel more confident and also less pessimistic.

 

I do go to a psychologist. Making some progress.

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I can see what you are saying, libs, but if what I am putting out there is a higher "quality" why were the women flocking to the guys putting out the lower "quality"? Granted, I can see, it has something to do with the fact that the women are lower "quality" themselves, what with throwing themselves at the ladies man. Definitely no waiters there. Definitely not women with values similar to mine.

A lot of people go with what they know/saw modeled with their parents or other family members, and they just can't recognize a good thing when they see it. I have two guys who are friends that have always been and continue to be the "nice guy", and it has finally worked out for both of them. They have great girlfriends that appreciate the sweet things they do for them. I can sense you might be wondering why if they are so great I didn't date one of them, and really it was a matter of timing, and me not looking for a relationship. Because they have always been so kind and generally just good people, I got to know them really well and came to realize we shared some interests but we weren't compatible enough to be more than friends. With guys that are jerks, they are pretty good at convincing you they are everything you want. Then they start treating the girls like garbage and show their true colors, but the girl is convinced that the "real" him was the best version and it takes being treated like absolute trash for a good bit of time to convince them otherwise. I'm not saying that is always the case, but girls with low self-esteem a lot of times don't expect to be treated better. Or they run away from what they feel like they don't deserve.

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Chivalry is a concept that is realised through understanding and acknowledgement and want of its existence. If a woman, or man, wishes to be protected and looked after, and needs a knight in shining armour, they will, naturally or artificially, create knights around them out of those who are willing, even ready, to be transformed. They will introduce the idea of chivalry or request it, or behave in such a way that calls for it, and those who are willing will fulfil that role, or given time will come into it.

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So, I'm guessing that this varies from man to man. Just thought I'd get your thoughts. :) Is chivalry dead? Or does it just lie dormant most of the time? Is it something that you do when you are taking a girl out? Or, because I have picked up that there are some here that haven't really courted much, do you PLAN on doing? Does it depend on the woman?

 

Also, what does this mean to you? For instance, opening doors, pulling out chairs, gentle hand kisses, stand up when she leaves the table or returns, taking care of the check unless it's been discussed otherwise, etc.

 

IMHO, I don't think chivalry is dead or dormant in this day and age, but it's something that hasn't been taught so much. I was also raised with traditional values so chivalry is something that comes naturally to me. For me, being chivalrous (opening the doors for women, taking care of the check, pushing the shopping cart) is something that I do for all women and not just the woman that I like. 

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IMHO, I don't think chivalry is dead or dormant in this day and age, but it's something that hasn't been taught so much. I was also raised with traditional values so chivalry is something that comes naturally to me. For me, being chivalrous (opening the doors for women, taking care of the check, pushing the shopping cart) is something that I do for all women and not just the woman that I like. 

That's hot.

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In Mexico, chivalry has a lot to do with class level. The majority of people living below the poverty level are usually more savage. Middle to high-class people tend to be more respectful, well mannered and to some extent chivalrous. When I say middle to high class, I mean an old fashioned well educated class (wealthy or not). A lot of people with new money aren't usually well mannered. I think in the US is fairly similar although the majority of Americans I have encountered that are chivalrious are usually wealthy.

Chivalry I think is inherited passed from one generation to the other, but there's always expections to every rule. It has to do more with personality in my opinion. My maternal grandmother was a highly educated woman who was a class act. It was passed to my mother and then me. Chivalry is second nature to me, and not only with women, but children and elderly and so on. But my cousins who obviously had the same grandma didn't absorb much of it, so it does have to do with one's personality.

I also think is a culture thing. Most latin countries tend to be chivalrious as opposed to more developed nations. In the US, I rarely encounter chivalrous men to tell you the truth, but I think it has a lot to do with their women. Women in the US are very proud and feminist. Many find it offensive when a guy opens the door or wants to pay for dinner or walk them to the bathroom. This trend has been growing in Mexico as many of its women are transitioning from traditional manners to modern ones and don't value a chivalrous guy anymore.

People usually laugh at me but I think there's a correlation between chivalry and modern lifestyle. The type of music today's generation listens to, the media, Hollywood, modern relationships, lack of eloquent youth, technology, etc. There's not a clear distinction between a behavior of a man and a women anymore. In Mexico, there's a saying that goes like this "El hombre llega hasta donde la mujer quiere" which means "A man will go as far as a woman allows it". I remember the days when women didn't allow men to say profanities in front of them, or get drunk, or dance with a drink on their hand or touch sensitive subjects. Nowadays, as women became more feminist and more equal to men, chivalry started to disappear. I do think chivalry is dying and it's all on women's hands to make it a comeback. Another saying that's one of my favorites says "if a man treats a woman like a princess is because he was raised by a queen"

A real chivalrious man will be chivalrious and a gentleman with everyone as opposed to a poser who will only be a gentleman with whom he's dating.

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I'm not interested in chivalry making a comeback, especially at the expense of equality. I'd rather encourage men AND women to treat all people with politeness and courtesy.

 

I had lunch with my brother yesterday, who just got back from Europe. He told me about visiting some female friends in Germany who treated him to a night out and about a female friend in England who insisted on hosting him and cooking for them. We discussed how exciting it is to play host in your home country to an international friend come to visit and what hospitality looks like in that situation.

 

How wonderful it is to live in a time when men and women can extend courtesy to each other, when the idea of who pays for something is based more on financial ability and not on gender.

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