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Johnny

Men's Physical Attractiveness

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I'm confused at your post. If I say that physical attractiveness isn't first and foremost, I'm a liar. If I agree with you that it is, then I'm telling the truth?

 

What makes me more or less trustworthy than the women who took a survey?

 

 

I can't converse with and ask questions of people who answer surveys. (It would be nice if I could, though).

 

Besides, I could be wrong. As someone who is probably average looking myself, I have every incentive to want to believe I can overcome my lack of looks, height, tan, muscles, etc with my personality, but like everyone, I get impressions based on my own past experiences. Nevertheless, I also know I’m not a mind-reader. I’m willing to keep an open mind, and even if you’re not convinced of that, there are others who may want to read what you have to say besides just myself.

 

In any case, could we please retire the notion that I believe women are liars? I don't think that's being very fair, considering I went to the trouble to show that that is not my point of view. Something is not a lie if you believe it. I do believe women believe what they're saying. That's not at issue.

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I think, initially, everybody wants someone they are instantly find attractive to come up to them and ask them out. Yes I have succumbed to this more often then not. But, I have become more attracted to men, over time, because of their personality. I started out not thinking them attractive and then becoming attracted to them, and also the reverse. I think, for me, personality is what keeps my attention on or pushes me away from men.

 

This type of thinking is probably what gives me the most hope. I've seen the kind of dynamic you're describing happen with other people several times. Of course, that's double-edged, too, since the feelings can also eventually go the other way, as you stated. Anyway, since a woman may not be initially attracted to a man and have her perception of him change later on, that would support the idea that in the end, women care less about looks than men do, since from what I've seen, men are less likely to suddenly become attracted to someone.

 

The problem I'm encountering now that I've taken up online dating again (more like online browsing) after a 10+ year hiatus, aside from a miserable, three-week stint on OKcupid last year, is that women online will not take the time to get to find out what your personality is like if they don't (apparently) like the way you look. I understand their point of view, though. I might be the same way, but I'm open about it. However, when I read their profiles about what they want in a man, and I fit it to a tee, I'm feeling like they left out another descriptor like "devastatingly handsome," not that I'm hideous to look at, but with a baby face, a fair complexion, and an average or below average height, I'm not tall, dark, and handsome. (Some have said I'm handsome, but I'm not sure your mom's friends count ;) ). I also think my messages are pretty witty and personable without being creepy or ignorant sounding, but I've noticed they'll often not even get read, because some sites will notify you of that.

 

In any case, I'm not restricting my search to online dating sites only. It's just another avenue, and I think keeping an active social life with people in person is the best one for the reasons you mentioned about having your feelings change towards men over time in whom you might not have initially been interested.

 

ETA: I'm not saying women dating online are "liars" either. I'm just saying their descriptions in what they want in a man may not be completely exhaustive.

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Attraction first, personality second. I can't tell if someone is funny, or smart, or kind, by looking at him. So I definitely go off attractiveness first. However, if I go on a date with an attractive guy, and his personality sucks, I'm done. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the opposite way with me. I could find a guy with a great personality but if I don't find him attractive, we can't be anything more than friends.

 

Thanks for the candid input. I typically have the same thing happen. If I'm not initially attracted, I've very rarely had that change later.

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The challenge with these surveys is that attractiveness is almost all subconscious, as it relates with very subtle and even invisible body cues having to do with health and mating. Basically, anybody (male or female) is looking for a healthy mate to create children with. This even goes for people that say they don't want kids. (You can't turn off your body's instinct.) Attractiveness is almost always related with health, symmetry, availability... but mostly health. In terms of what women find attractive, it's totally unique with each woman. But as I was mentioning, the only responses we find in surveys are the verbal/conscious ones. There's not really a way to do a survey for instinct. Our body has a very intelligent system, and that system operates all the time, whether we know it or not.

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In regards to online dating, just keep in mind that the women you're contacting are quite possibly bombarded with messages. The summer I met my husband, I had 12 or more NEW guys contact me almost every day. Add them into the conversations I'd already started and attempted to continue... I simply didn't have enough hours in the day to reply to everyone, no matter how interesting and/or attractive.

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Posture and social interaction speaks to me more than appearance for a first impression.

 

A supermodel with a sour look and aggressive attitude won't give me a chance to think "oh he's cute" before I begin to equate everything about that man - even his physical appearance - as something undesirable.

 

On the flip side, a homely, deep-thinking man with a practical approach to life will be much more attractive and desirable.

 

For me, a person's physical, mental and emotional characteristics are just one single package. While I can objectively say whether or not the person is "hot" or "ugly" depending on my preferences, a pretty face will still be introduced as "that asshole" and nothing more if they decide to be one.

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In regards to online dating, just keep in mind that the women you're contacting are quite possibly bombarded with messages. The summer I met my husband, I had 12 or more NEW guys contact me almost every day. Add them into the conversations I'd already started and attempted to continue... I simply didn't have enough hours in the day to reply to everyone, no matter how interesting and/or attractive.

 

Thanks, and I know this is true that women get a lot of messages, especially on free sites like OKCupid, which has a high male-to-female ratio from my understanding. I even remember one time when I’d set up an account and had accidentally put “f†for my sex and got visits from four guys within a just couple of minutes of creating the account, and this was even before posting any pictures yet. I was like, ‘Why are all these men viewing my profile?...Ohhh.’

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From the original article, the author states, "The surveys I conducted for my books For Men Only and For Young Men Only revealed that up to 90 percent of women question, 'Am I loveable? Beautiful? Special?'" Now, is this a fair or complete conclusion by the author? Does this high of a percentage of women really wonder if they're lovable or beautiful to the general population these days when statistically, many of those same women could have hundreds or thousands of adoring fans on social media telling her how beautiful and special she is and "liking" her pictures? Also, as we've established, many women who use dating sites get many messages per day, so do they still have reason to doubt themselves, as the author claims, or is it more likely that they simply doubt themselves in regards to men who meet particularly high thresholds for desirability, heavily influenced by the men's looks?

 

In addition, I've found some interesting entries from this blogger I've been reading, lately, in which the author delves into the male attractiveness issue: https://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/analyzing-attraction-part-3/#respond

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Thanks for the responses so far, even I haven't directly addressed them. I have read them all, though, and appreciate the input and thought that goes into them.

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