Mirage

Controversial Topics

19 posts in this topic

Hey all. This is an idea I've been thinking of for a few weeks now, and looking at the answers to "Viewer Undiscretion" I've decided to post it.

So basically, there are a few topics that will crop up occasionally that really fire people up. We get into massive arguments, yell at other people (via text!), and write lots of lengthy posts, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But quite often these topics get shut down, or they'll be 'paused' by vince for a few days to let people cool off. And when they open back up, if at all, they're just not the same. So I was thinking, what if we made a forum to purely host these kinds of topics, topics too controversial to be discussed in a way that let's us properly display our opinions on the regular forums.

What it would entail:

- Any topics that get to bad could be paused and the main points migrated over to the controversial topics forum (Henceforth known as CT Forum).

- If something was placed on the forum that we agreed wasn't really controversial it could be moved to the appropriate forum.

- We can still have controversial topics in the regular forums, if someone wants Christian or Muslim opinions on Gay Marriage then that can go in Religious Topics. Just keep it civil there.

- The CT Forum would not be a 'no holds barred battle royale'. It would be a place where you could quote someone and systematically destroy their points, but it would still not be the place to call someone a f***ing re***d, we're not on 4chan here.

- It would be hidden to non-members just like VDA. No need to have controversial posts hitting the feed on the front page.

- The moderators must be diverse. We can't have one mod shutting down topics or moving them out of the forum because they agree. Our mods are pretty damn good so it's not really a concern, but it is something to look out for.

Examples of topics that could be posted on a CT Forum:

- Gay Marriage

Topics like "Should Gay Marriage Be Legal?" are fine, but some of the more opinion style questions on the subject would definitely belong here.

- In Vitro Fertilization

We have several members who are very passionately anti-IVF (Jegsy is the biggest one, lots of good points). As well as a few members who are all for IVF (Myself for one). These topics never last more than two pages due to how heated the argument can become.

- Anything That Gets Too Out Of Hand

Just move the subject there if good points are being made. If it's just a flamefest the topic would be closed down. But if people are passionately arguing their stances then there should be a place to do so.

Thoughts? Opinions? Profess to me your undying admiration and respect?

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I think this is a great idea - there have been things I've wanted to discuss on here but have been reluctant to start a thread on as I have a feeling it would cause an argument. It would be great to have an appropriate place to post controversial topics and it's good that these discussions will be hidden from non-members.

Having said that, it would need to be monitored carefully, with any posts that are directly attacking other members or are just scorning their beliefs without backing it up being flagged. Also, any disagreements that take place in the CT forum should stay there and not spill out onto other boards and threads e.g. in the form of passive aggressive digs at other members. We are all mature enough to know that there are always going to be things we fundamentally disagree on, but it would be very interesting to hear opinions that differ from your own.

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Great idea, just don't tell me if it's ever made. I will argue relentlessly (because my opinions are the right ones) and you will all hate me.

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I really like the idea in concept; but I worry that in practice it might have unintended side effects. Heated arguments are bound to happen no matter what on a site like this; but encouraging them like that could lead to things getting inappropriate and out of hand really fast, even with lots of moderation. I'm not saying this would be in the spirit of this category's intention, but I just think human nature will see a place specifically designated for 'no-holds-barred battle royale' as an invitation to attack or take things to an inappropriate level. I think the difference between a flamefest with good points being made and a flamefest that's just a flamefest is an important distinction—but a challenging line for a moderator to draw. It's a bit subjective, and people might look at the same post differently by both tone and content. [Having diverse moderators would be important, but probably also tricky to coordinate.] And people will always feel personally attacked, whether it's true or not, if others rebut their arguments even respectfully. When someone chooses to participate in a discussion, s/he opens him/herself up to receiving responses, which may or may not be what s/he wants to hear.

Such a zone would still require the same individual responsibility of respect and civility that is demanded in the general forum regardless.

So while I'm not exactly opposed to the idea (quite the contrary—I love it in theory), I admit I have a few practical concerns. *shrug* For whatever it's worth.

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I think it's a good idea, only because it seems like OPINION questions turn into FACT vs FACT, or WHY I'M RIGHT, arguments very quickly.

 

So, if we could just stick to answering questions as they are posed, and start a new topic if the need is felt to argue a point, then I don't really think it's necessary, but not a bad idea.

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I wouldn't mind such a forum, provided one of the rules was that it isn't just another opinion thread.  Participants should have to substantiate their claims with reference material or links to references (or really well-explained reasoning).  Sometimes members make wild claims and insist in post after post that they are right but refuse to back it up at all.

 

And while I don't mind who names it, maybe it should include the word 'debate' in its description or title... e.g. Controversy and Debates forum because we would still want everyone to behave respectfully.  Personal attacks, insults and snide remarks really should have no place here.

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I wouldn't mind such a forum, provided one of the rules was that it isn't just another opinion thread.  Participants should have to substantiate their claims with reference material or links to references (or really well-explained reasoning).  Sometimes members make wild claims and insist in post after post that they are right but refuse to back it up at all.

 

And while I don't mind who names it, maybe it should include the word 'debate' in its description or title... e.g. Controversy and Debates forum because we would still want everyone to behave respectfully.  Personal attacks, insults and snide remarks really should have no place here.

Ah, I agree completely. We can't have people not backing up their claims. Maybe have a rule that if you mention something about studies that have been done, then you must provide links or a means of finding the study? And if you get called out on something you should cite sources as well. Similar to how I've seen Jegsy do it when challenged about Catholicism.

As to your second point, we could include debate in the forum description. Something like this:

 

Controversial Topics

"Debate controversial topics with other members here. Be sure to read the rules and guidelines of this forum before posting."

Otherwise I feel the title would be too wordy. Thoughts?

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Ah, I agree completely. We can't have people not backing up their claims. Maybe have a rule that if you mention something about studies that have been done, then you must provide links or a means of finding the study? And if you got called out on something you should cite sources as well. Similar to how I've seen Jegsy do it when challenged about Catholicism.As to your second point, we could include debate in the forum description. Something like this: Controversial Topics"Debate controversial topics with other members here. Be sure to read the rules and guidelines of this forum before posting."Otherwise I feel the title would be too wordy. Thoughts?

Absolutely love it

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Thoughts? Opinions? Profess to me your undying admiration and respect?

 

The third one. :P

 

I'm all for it. I've actually been thinking about a separate forum for controversial topics since I realized that EVERYBODY seems to have these stupid and annoying little things called "opinions."

 

We'll try to get a maiden voyage of this subforum soon and make a test run out of this.

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Whoever sets the rules to this I hope has been educated in proper debate and formal argumentation (many rules that the common person may not know).

Also, I love formal debate.  I hate domestic argument.  Would a controversial section encourage people to argue more?  Is this pro-waiting until marriage? Or is this pro-get your boxing gear on? 

Also, by statistical analysis, there is a certain demographic that furthers the informality of argumentation.

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We'll try to get a maiden voyage of this subforum soon and make a test run out of this.

 

Just make sure it goes better than the Titanic's!

 

Sorry, couldn't help it :P

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Just make sure it goes better than the Titanic's!

 

Sorry, couldn't help it :P

 

With the way some people argue here, it is likely to be an utter "disaster." AHAHA! Get it? Disaster? Cause you know, you said Titanic...disaster? hehe....okay not funny.

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I am for this idea. Though we still should not forget how important mutual respect is for one another. If you want to say something nasty, write it on a piece of paper and flush it down the toilet. I hope in the future we can have clean open debates on all forums. 

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Also, by statistical analysis, there is a certain demographic that furthers the informality of argumentation.

 

Could you clarify what you mean by that?

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Could you clarify what you mean by that?

 

If I had to guess:

 

By looking at the members we have, there exists a certain class of members who bring arguing down to a much baser level. So some subgroup of people exists that prevents us or at least makes it much harder for us to carry on a proper argument as you'd see in a debate hall.

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I like that idea.

 

Or have some place called "The War Zone" where everybody gets offended all of the time. :D

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