Jada

Would you be insulted..

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 if someone asked you to sign a prenuptial agreement? I would definitely want one before getting married  but given how offensive some people can take it to be, I don't know. Do you think it's selfish to want one?

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Not at all. A prenup would let me know she is studious with her finances and wouldn't burden our marriage with unnecessary debts and expenses.

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No. A prenup does not say you don't think the marriage will last, or that you don't trust them. It protects you both if in the event something does happen.

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I would not be insulted at all. Unlike a lot of people, I don't see the gesture of a pre-nup as 'What, you think we won't make it?'. I see it as 'I love you and I think, that since we both want to make this work, we will do our best TOGETHER... but just in case the worst happens... because there are no guarantees in life... let's make it so that the split will go as smoothly as possible. Hoping that we never have to see it again.' I do think the stipulations should be kind of harsh for both parties, so they are not easy to get out of. That way it also serves as a reminder of WHY we got married, making us think it through more thoroughly. Aside from my emotional moments, I am a pretty pragmatic person. I think about the what-ifs in life. A recent 'fun' test I took told me I am a 'Practical Romantic'. I guess that might explain why I think like this. I realize that there is no guarantee, and that you can hope for the best, plan, work together, do everything possible, and it could still fall apart. I think a pre-nup is more of an insurance plan. When people get divorced, it's affects more than just the the two involved. Their families, friends... their life. If you put that safe-guard in place, with the plan that it will never get used unless it's a last resort, I think it would help all involved.

 

Just my view point.

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I would absolutely sign one and would not take any offense when asked. I think it's actually a very good idea in this day and age. Whilst its not the most romantic start to marriage (and no-one goes into a marriage expecting it to end in divorce), it's prudent to have plans in place in case anything does go wrong.

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I would never sign a prenup, nor would I ever ask my spouse to sign a prenup. Other people can do what they think is best, though.

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If I love him and want to be with him for the rest of my life, I would not mind signing it. Shoot, we can get one for the both of us. Don't plan on using it any ways :D

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I'm not down with prenups at all.  I'm all about being prepared, but I feel like prenups cheapen the value of marriage, so to speak.  I'm not a proponent of divorce at all, and walking into a marriage with a prenup almost makes it feel like divorce is an option.

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Generally speaking, having a prenuptial agreement would render a marriage invalid in the Catholic Church. Marriages can't have conditions put on them: you must enter into them freely, without reservation, a total gift of self. If you start by saying, "I'll marry you...if you agree to give me half your money if we break up" then there would be a serious issue there.

 

Plus, it suggests that those who are seeking the pre-nup don't seriously believe that marriage is for life. Although technically, you can obtain a civil divorce in serious circumstances (though still remain validly married in the eyes of God and the Church), it should be extremely rare. There wouldn't be any reason to ask. You'd in effect be saying, "Will you sign a pre-nup, just in case you turn out to be abusive and/or violent?"

 

The only exception given in Canon Law, incidentally, is in the case of a widow and widower, both with children, marrying each other. In that case, they could sign an agreement to decide what assets from their first marriages would go to their children from those marriages. However, that would be in the case of the death of one spouse, not in the case of divorce. It'd be allowed because it's protecting the interests of a third party (the children), not of either spouse.

 

xxx

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I wouldn't be offended but I'm definitely not signing one and I'm not asking him for one. The money we make will be ours.

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Hallejouya.

Thank goodness for the spell checker. Someone spell this for me. He he

Hallelujah haha

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It is true that there are no guarantees in life. I'm under no illusions that divorce happens and in some cases it may even be necessary. But no matter how much of a positive spin we try to put on prenupts, you are entering marriage with at least some level of distrust and uncertainty. That to me is degrading the sacred vow of "for better or worse, till death do us part." To me, it's not the denial that things could go wrong, but rather the attitude of marriage. I strongly believe the right attitude can make all the difference in reducing the level of uncertainly to nearly nothing. If I don't have complete faith that a marriage will last, then I'd rather not marry at all.

 

I also find the idea of prenupts to be a huge distortion of priorities. When you marry someone, you are essentially trusting your life and the lives and safety of your children to your spouse.....but not your MATERIAL possessions. I could never sign one without feeling like I am prioritizing protecting possessions over the marriage.

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Generally speaking, having a prenuptial agreement would render a marriage invalid in the Catholic Church. Marriages can't have conditions put on them: you must enter into them freely, without reservation, a total gift of self. If you start by saying, "I'll marry you...if you agree to give me half your money if we break up" then there would be a serious issue there.

Well I learn something new every day! I change my answer to it would bother me for religious reasons and no signature on my part.

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I don't care if she is a millionaire and I'm making a measly $20,000 a year I want a prenup that says my money is Mine and her money is Her's. Sure while we're married we can share the wealth, but what kind of man would I be to take her money away from her. Even in the relationship I would rather earn something rather than buy it easily by borrowing her money and vice versa.

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In the olden days people got married in their teens and early 20s so most of the wealth was earned together. So it makes sense for those marriages to have the couples share half of the wealth in case of a breakup.

Today most people get married in their late 20s or early 30s so their wealth is earned independently. So it makes sense for a prenup that allows each to keep his or her entire wealth.

It makes no sense for me to marry a millionaire and divorce in a few months to take half of her wealth despite her earning it without me.

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I wouldn't sign one and would never ask for one. I understand that divorce happens, but if either of us is marrying while thinking about what happens when there's a divorce, I feel like I have no business getting married in the first place. A prenup, to me, would speak to a deeper lack of trust. I would not wish to enter into a marriage if I didn't trust the other person to not try to take advantage of me if things went south—and vice versa. I think it's fine to do if that's what's right for you...but definitely wouldn't be right for the type of relationship I'm looking for. If my potential husband insisted on a prenup, I would actually call off the wedding (because we're not both in the place I would need us to be in before entering into a marriage).

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In the olden days people got married in their teens and early 20s so most of the wealth was earned together. So it makes sense for those marriages to have the couples share half of the wealth in case of a breakup.

Today most people get married in their late 20s or early 30s so their wealth is earned independently. So it makes sense for a prenup that allows each to keep his or her entire wealth.

It makes no sense for me to marry a millionaire and divorce in a few months to take half of her wealth despite her earning it without me.

 

I will say that I can understand a prenup in cases where the couple have children from previous relationships, and need to keep their assets separate in order to protect their kids' inheritance, or if they're getting married later in life and are each independently wealthy, or if someone has a ton of family money and has a real need to protect themselves from getting taken advantage of by a gold digger.

 

In my case, I've been dating my boyfriend since we were both 16; we are starting together from nothing. So as far as I'm concerned, everything we have will be because of each other. It probably wouldn't even truly make sense to even think of separating our things between 'his' and 'mine,' because so much of it will be purchased jointly between us (excluding some heirlooms I'm set to inherit from my mom, but any divorce court would recognize such things as belonging to me so there's no point in having to hash that out beforehand).

 

Also, at least for me, I see the above cases I mentioned as people living very close, but not intertwined lives. For my marriage, I want our lives to be intertwined. No 'his' stuff and 'my' stuff, no separate bank accounts, etc. Just two different ideas of how you want marriage to be, I guess. I don't see either way as being broadly right or wrong, but one is definitely not right for me.

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... (excluding some heirlooms I'm set to inherit from my mom, but any divorce court would recognize such things as belonging to me so there's no point in having to hash that out beforehand).

 

... I don't see either way as being broadly right or wrong, but one is definitely not right for me.

On your first point, you may want to look into that. I believe the laws have changed some but, based on an experience my mom had, I looked this up. Depending on where you are from, there is a LOT to those laws. It's not always cut and dry. Even if you two have been together since you were 16, it's good to be educated. Take my advice, or don't. :) You have proven more than once on these forums that you are fully capable of thinking for yourself, I just wanted to give you something to think about.

 

On this second thing... I think this is a good statement.

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I don't care if she is a millionaire and I'm making a measly $20,000 a year I want a prenup that says my money is Mine and her money is Her's. Sure while we're married we can share the wealth, but what kind of man would I be to take her money away from her. Even in the relationship I would rather earn something rather than buy it easily by borrowing her money and vice versa.

I agree. I would sign a prenuptial agreement. It's to protect myself and my spouse if something goes wrong

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Would sign one and ask for one as well. Having things planned out for how the "worst" will play out when things are great means it will be less messy compared to if the course of actions gets determined while the worst is happening!!!

 

I would love her too much to want even the 'worst case scenario' to be as painless as possible :)

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In many states, whatever you earn before marriage is yours, even in divorce. What ever you inherit/earn while married, can be subject for division during divorce. So if I own a house before I'm married, she can't take it in divorce. But if I were to inherit a house, there would be a division.

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I would love her too much to want even the 'worst case scenario' to be as painless as possible  :)

This is the way I feel... I thought about it later, but never came back on here to state it. It's kind of a letter to your future self, in a worst case scenario. It's a piece of paper that speaks, 'Listen, Dudes, you guys DID love each other SO MUCH, at some point, that you didn't even want to cause each other pain if things turned bad for your future selves, and you couldn't fix it... I'm just a reminder of that'. Maybe you'd still have to use it, or maybe just looking it over would make you rethink and make you both try even harder to look for another solution.

 

OK, so I know that sounds silly, but it's just a point of view. We all have a point of view. None are absolutely wrong.

 

Also, Some people are really good at hiding who they really are, or what their intentions are, just to get what they want. Yes, I have a reason for this statement, but my reason is not relevant. To some of us this paper doesn't mean there is a lack of trust in another person, or their feelings, it means that you are willing to SHOW how much you trust each other. Not too many people are going to get past that paper if they are lying about themselves or their feelings. Actions speak louder than words. For you it might mean you see it as a sign that you don't love them as you think you do, or vice versa, or that there is not enough trust, and that's ok. You're allowed to have your own view. It doesn't mean that to me. My reasons for agreeing to it are no more right or wrong than your reasons for not agreeing to it. That's the beauty of life, we don't all have to agree with each other. 

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On your first point, you may want to look into that. I believe the laws have changed some but, based on an experience my mom had, I looked this up. Depending on where you are from, there is a LOT to those laws. It's not always cut and dry. 

 

I should probably have specified that any divorce court *in Texas* would recognize those heirlooms as being mine. My understanding of the way Texas, and other community property states, divide things up is this: everything you brought into the marriage is yours, along with anything that was specifically gifted to one person within the marriage (such as the heirlooms). That was the way it was when my parents divorced, anyway. My mom was able to retain those same heirlooms because they were gifted to her by her mother, even though my parents had been married for like 20 years by the time that happened. And my father is a total skeezebag, so if he could have gotten his hands on her valuables I'm sure he'd have tried.

 

I think it's really my parents' experience that makes me so anti-prenup, separate bank accounts, etc for myself. I have trust issues due to the crap my father pulled during the divorce, and I don't want to give into those issues and fears when it comes to my own marriage. I mean, I'm already trusting my boyfriend with my health and safety in a way that would very likely have gotten my mother seriously harmed or worse if she had trusted my father in that same way, so I'm already working hard on overcoming a major hurdle -- a far more major one than financial stuff. So then, my thought process is, why give into the financial trust issues, too? 

 

Of course, someone could have my same experiences and come out very much on the side of prenups and separate bank accounts -- and that person is probably wiser than I, honestly. But I want to be able to throw caution to the wind when it comes to love! I just...don't want to feel like my faith in marriage has been irreparably damaged because of what my father did. That would just be letting him win.

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The only instance where I might consider it would be if either of us were disproportionately wealthy or a public figure, or had some sort of complicated inheritance/trust fund and/or children from a previous marriage.  Then it might help make it clear to everyone else that your love was for each other, not for money or assets that could become part of a marriage.  But that's all unlikely, and I don't see a need for it otherwise.

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I would want to know his reasons for asking me to sign one.  Is he being pressured from family, friends, etc?  Why does he think that we need one?

 

Other than having a very valid reason...no, signing one, for me, would be highly unlikely.  And it's not something that I would ask of him either.  

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