Fernando H

Can you accept a Guy who went from non-virgin to Waiter?

66 posts in this topic

Can you date a guy who is not a virgin and has become a committed Waiter? 

 

If so, do you require a specific track record, for example, if he's not a Virgin he must be a waiter longer than 1 year, 3 years, 5 years?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I would definitely consider a guy who decided to wait as a non-virgin.

As for the track record, I would not set a specific time frame, as the number of years are somewhat arbitrary. It would really depend on how serious he was. I would only have an issue with dating someone who only decided to wait after meeting/dating me. In that case I would feel like he did not decide entirely on his own, and would only be doing it because that's what I want. When a man makes up his own mind, apart from me and backed up with his own reasons, that is when I would consider dating him.

14 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I would prefer to marry a man who had waited all his life, I would still consider marrying a man who was not a virgin but had later decided to wait until marriage.  For me, the amount of time he has been waiting is not the issue - I would care much more about what they had done in the past e.g. him having had sex within a committed, long term relationship would be much easier to accept than if he had been out having a series of one night stands with no love/commitment involved.  

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have thought this through many times when men, who were not virgins but had become committed waiters, approached me. Some were really nice people but I could not bring myself to enter into a relationship. Since most of them were Christians they almost always quoted 2 Corinthians 5:17 as a reason why I should accept them. I wholeheartedly believe that people can become new creations in Christ but I feel that has nothing to do with why I cannot accept them in any way other than as a brother in Christ. It is not because I think am better than them or that I am judging anyone or that I am an unforgiving person. Call me jealous or naïve; maybe it is just me, but though I tried hard, I could never get over the fact that there had been someone other than me. Yeah, I know, I'll probably die a virgin :).

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't bother me to date a non virgin who had decided to wait as long as there are dedicated to their choice. It's like someone took the wrong way and decided to be in the right way again, I'll forgive them, and even respect them because in a way if you've never smoke it's easier not to smoke but if you've smoke already and know what it's like,I would think it's harder to stop smoking....

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Bethreny for the comment, is very good to know the input and thoughts of a woman.

Very good and interesting insight 29K. Follow up question, would you want to know the details if you were considering a non-virgin waiter?

Raz, that is an excellent input. Your not naive, maybe jealous and your entitled to that feeling. You had the paitience and dedication to wait faithfully to your one and only, and you deserve someone who will reciprocate your faithfullness. I hope you don't die a virgin and pray you find your one and only. I've have guy friends and met other guys who are virgins, just pray.

Thanks for the comment DivaDreamer.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good and interesting insight 29K. Follow up question, would you want to know the details if you were considering a non-virgin waiter?

 

I would need to know the details before embarking on a serious relationship with the man involved.  It would be hard to hear at first but I would rather know the truth then let my imagination worry about what may or may not have been done in the past.  As I said in my previous post, I'd be wary of men who had had a string of one night stands beforehand as that would demonstrate to me that we had fundamentally different (and incompatible) attitudes towards sex.  If they had had sex  within a loving, committed relationship then that's another story entirely.  

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I would definitely consider a guy who decided to wait as a non-virgin.

As for the track record, I would not set a specific time frame, as the number of years are somewhat arbitrary. It would really depend on how serious he was. I would only have an issue with dating someone who only decided to wait after meeting/dating me. In that case I would feel like he did not decide entirely on his own, and would only be doing it because that's what I want. When a man makes up his own mind, apart from me and backed up with his own reasons, that is when I would consider dating him.

This is something I can relate to, but the reverse (with my girlfriend). When someone is waiting because YOU ARE, it's not genuine. I think "I'll wait for you" is a whole bunch of crap. Either you're waiting because it is morally the right thing to do, or you aren't. That determines whether values align, and that is the most important thing in a relationship.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I would definitely consider a guy who decided to wait as a non-virgin.

As for the track record, I would not set a specific time frame, as the number of years are somewhat arbitrary. It would really depend on how serious he was. I would only have an issue with dating someone who only decided to wait after meeting/dating me. In that case I would feel like he did not decide entirely on his own, and would only be doing it because that's what I want. When a man makes up his own mind, apart from me and backed up with his own reasons, that is when I would consider dating him.

 

This is something I can relate to, but the reverse (with my girlfriend). When someone is waiting because YOU ARE, it's not genuine. I think "I'll wait for you" is a whole bunch of crap. Either you're waiting because it is morally the right thing to do, or you aren't. That determines whether values align, and that is the most important thing in a relationship.

 

I third that sentiment. While it would initially hurt if she was a non-virgin, it's not a dealbreaker for me. All that matters to me is that she's waiting on her accord. I do not want to be with someone who waited because I asked her to. I think it kind of defeats the purpose of waiting because we view sex as special and intimate only reserved for our spouse. It kind of loses it's value when your spouse doesn't appreciate waiting the same way you do. What good is giving such a special gift to that one person you're saving it for only for them to have a lukewarm or indifferent attitude about it? I know it sounds harsh, but it would feel a huge waste and all that time and sacrifice waiting would in vain. I do not want to give myself (and my virginity) to someone who didn't appreciate it the same way I do. It's not the past that matters, it's the attitude.

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something I can relate to, but the reverse (with my girlfriend). When someone is waiting because YOU ARE, it's not genuine. I think "I'll wait for you" is a whole bunch of crap. Either you're waiting because it is morally the right thing to do, or you aren't. That determines whether values align, and that is the most important thing in a relationship.

Different things are important to different people. This is the key truth you're forgetting when you call someone waiting for someone "a whole bunch of crap."

 

For you, maybe it would ruin waiting until marriage and/or you're relationship if someone was waiting for you. It wouldn't for me, though. I care more about virginity than waiting until marriage. I also care about waiting until marriage, but I honestlycare more about virginity. In accordance with that, it's more important to me if a girl is a virgin than if she is waiting. I long for the exclusivity of being each other's only sexual partners more than I want us both to value waiting.

 

That being said, of course I would hope she was also a waiter and enjoyed the exclusivity of our sex life as much as I do. And, even if she's not a waiter and doesn't value the exclusivity as much as I do, I would hope she still found a degree of specialness to it. But, if she didn't, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker to me. It would be a disappointment, but not a dealbreaker.

 

Now that I've explained this, it should be rather clear why a girl waiting for me would certainly not be a bunch of crap to me. I would be overjoyed that I had found a compatible partner who is also a virgin.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also cared more about finding a virgin than finding a waiter. My boyfriend definitely wasn't a wait-till-marriage type, but he was a virgin, and he was willing to wait as long as I needed. That's all I cared about.  :) At first he didn't think there was anything particularly special about us being each other's only partners (though he didn't think it was a negative thing either), but as time has gone on he has started to see value in it.  ^_^

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Different things are important to different people. This is the key truth you're forgetting when you call someone waiting for someone "a whole bunch of crap."

 

For you, maybe it would ruin waiting until marriage and/or you're relationship if someone was waiting for you. It wouldn't for me, though. I care more about virginity than waiting until marriage. I also care about waiting until marriage, but I honestlycare more about virginity. In accordance with that, it's more important to me if a girl is a virgin than if she is waiting. I long for the exclusivity of being each other's only sexual partners more than I want us both to value waiting.

 

That being said, of course I would hope she was also a waiter and enjoyed the exclusivity of our sex life as much as I do. And, even if she's not a waiter and doesn't value the exclusivity as much as I do, I would hope she still found a degree of specialness to it. But, if she didn't, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker to me. It would be a disappointment, but not a dealbreaker.

 

Now that I've explained this, it should be rather clear why a girl waiting for me would certainly not be a bunch of crap to me. I would be overjoyed that I had found a compatible partner who is also a virgin.

Aaah, interesting point. Never thought of that switch in priorities.

 

I can only speak from experience. I think values should align in relationships. History does not equate to values necessarily.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something I can relate to, but the reverse (with my girlfriend). When someone is waiting because YOU ARE, it's not genuine. I think "I'll wait for you" is a whole bunch of crap. Either you're waiting because it is morally the right thing to do, or you aren't. That determines whether values align, and that is the most important thing in a relationship.

 

Wait. Why wouldn’t it be genuine? To be honest, would you really even know if it was genuine? You can’t read their minds. What if someone was on the rocks about waiting and you influenced them to wait? That wouldn’t be genuine? I can go either way with this one. I understand both sides and what you’re saying, but I’m going to argue the opposite for now :D.

 

Hopefully this makes sense. My mind goes 50 places when I type so…

 

If someone who wasn’t going to wait, either a virgin or not, decided to wait because they were truly feeling something amazing with you and started falling in love with you, why would this be bad? I would seriously appreciate this if I liked the person. People have a weak influence or a strong influence and people are influenced strongly or weakly. Even if they wait for YOU, it’s still THEIR decision to wait. Someone isn’t going to wait 1-10+ (depending on your waiting time for marriage :P) years just to have sex with you unless they were really sure about this. (Well maybe not unless they’re a patient douche with an evil agenda LOL.)

 

There has to be a lot of thought into this decision otherwise they would continuously pressure you to go against what you believe. The morally right thing in our minds is to wait, and it doesn’t make it morally wrong for them to just decide then and there that they want to wait for you. If it wasn’t for other people and stories in your life, you wouldn’t be the person you are today, so maybe you are a game changer for someone and even if you don’t end up together, they may see value in what you ‘taught’ them that was right according to you and choose to do this from now on but they were still influenced by you. Values can still align because the bottom line is you’re both waiting. And even if you’re waiting for yourself, you still have in the back of your mind you all want to wait for you future spouse, right? So why is it THAT much different if they want to wait for you if they feel you’re to be their spouse?

 

And yes, I know there are some people out there who leave behind bitter experiences, but not everyone is like that. Some can still be genuine and wait for you. It’s not necessarily a bad thing at all, in my mind. But that’s me :D.

 

 

 

I also cared more about finding a virgin than finding a waiter. My boyfriend definitely wasn't a wait-till-marriage type, but he was a virgin, and he was willing to wait as long as I needed. That's all I cared about.  :) At first he didn't think there was anything particularly special about us being each other's only partners (though he didn't think it was a negative thing either), but as time has gone on he has started to see value in it.  ^_^

 

So see, you influenced him for the positive :D. Just one example.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry but personally no. I wish I could, I really do. But I can't accept a man who can't give his full heart to me. I respect all the girls who can look past that. ^^ Because I really can't, sorry. I've found a perfect guy before and he's got it all. Christian, dat british accent, handsome, but he's non-virgin. and just like that he's gone in my heart.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Wait. Why wouldn’t it be genuine? To be honest, would you really even know if it was genuine? You can’t read their minds. What if someone was on the rocks about waiting and you influenced them to wait? That wouldn’t be genuine? I can go either way with this one. I understand both sides and what you’re saying, but I’m going to argue the opposite for now :D.

 

Hopefully this makes sense. My mind goes 50 places when I type so…

 

If someone who wasn’t going to wait, either a virgin or not, decided to wait because they were truly feeling something amazing with you and started falling in love with you, why would this be bad? I would seriously appreciate this if I liked the person. People have a weak influence or a strong influence and people are influenced strongly or weakly. Even if they wait for YOU, it’s still THEIR decision to wait. Someone isn’t going to wait 1-10+ (depending on your waiting time for marriage :P) years just to have sex with you unless they were really sure about this. (Well maybe not unless they’re a patient douche with an evil agenda LOL.)

 

There has to be a lot of thought into this decision otherwise they would continuously pressure you to go against what you believe. The morally right thing in our minds is to wait, and it doesn’t make it morally wrong for them to just decide then and there that they want to wait for you. If it wasn’t for other people and stories in your life, you wouldn’t be the person you are today, so maybe you are a game changer for someone and even if you don’t end up together, they may see value in what you ‘taught’ them that was right according to you and choose to do this from now on but they were still influenced by you. Values can still align because the bottom line is you’re both waiting. And even if you’re waiting for yourself, you still have in the back of your mind you all want to wait for you future spouse, right? So why is it THAT much different if they want to wait for you if they feel you’re to be their spouse?

 

And yes, I know there are some people out there who leave behind bitter experiences, but not everyone is like that. Some can still be genuine and wait for you. It’s not necessarily a bad thing at all, in my mind. But that’s me :D.

No, I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't take this as an attack - these kinds of conversations are important, and interesting. I appreciate they disclaimer, though - I know these debates can often appear aggressive. :)

 

I have an issue with saying values align in that case.  ACTIONS align, but values are what spur actions.  Any action can have multiple motives. One may donate to charity to help the needy, one may do so to receive praise.  Same action, but values are not aligning there. in a case with different values, it's not always an issue of that sort, but actions are manifestations of values, not values themselves.

 

I think what matters is the individual's reason for waiting. And like I usually do, I'm going to present a philosophical paradigm:

Waiting until marriage can come from three motivations: self-concerned/amoral (waiting because it's simply what they want), other-considered/amoral (waiting because it's what the other person wants), or global/moral (waiting because they believe it is the morally right thing to do).

In a case where one person is motivated by the self-centered/amoral reasons, then being with someone waiting for the same reasons OR for specific/considerate reasons does NOT represent a conflict in values per se. This is because there is no real distinct moral value involved in their decisions to wait until marriage for "doin' tha nasty". It's not a global moral stance - rather, it is something personal.

 

And I think this is where I tend to butt heads with a lot of people, waiters and non-waiters.  I fall into the global/moral camp, thinking it is disrespectful to the intrinsic value of others to have sex before marriage ("Talk about dramatic!"). This is an issue that I think does and should have a moral valence, and not everyone does. If one person is waiting for global/moral reasons, and their partner is waiting for another reason, then their values do not align, even though their actions might.

 

When someone is waiting out of a moral conviction (i.e., global/moral motivation), I think being with someone waiting for the same reason is important, particularly if waiting until marriage is a value you wish to pass on to your children. But if your waiting is not moral in that sense, then it doesn't matter. That's not to say those waiting for the other two reasons are "immoral" - for them, the situation just doesn't have a particular moral importance.

 

And a DISCLAIMER before someone starts throwing stones: don't misinterpret the labeling of the "self-concerned" or "amoral". "Self-concerned" simply means they are waiting for "personal reasons". "Amoral" refers to a lack of moral valence for that situation in the eyes of the individiual, not lack or deficit in moral judgement on the part of the individual.

 

Those are my $5 bucks (it's WAY too long to be two cents). Attack me as you please. ;)

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not going to lie. It would bother me. I want to date and marry a virgin so we can experience things together without him comparing me to another woman. Unless I really fall hard and in love with him, I wouldn't be able to look past that. I know God forgives us and people do make mistakes and deserve second chances. But if I'm waiting for him, he should've also waited for me.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't take this as an attack - these kinds of conversations are important, and interesting. I appreciate they disclaimer, though - I know these debates can often appear aggressive. :)

 

I have an issue with saying values align in that case.  ACTIONS align, but values are what spur actions.  Any action can have multiple motives. One may donate to charity to help the needy, one may do so to receive praise.  Same action, but values are not aligning there. in a case with different values, it's not always an issue of that sort, but actions are manifestations of values, not values themselves.

 

I think what matters is the individual's reason for waiting. And like I usually do, I'm going to present a philosophical paradigm:

Waiting until marriage can come from three motivations: self-concerned/amoral (waiting because it's simply what they want), other-considered/amoral (waiting because it's what the other person wants), or global/moral (waiting because they believe it is the morally right thing to do).

In a case where one person is motivated by the self-centered/amoral reasons, then being with someone waiting for the same reasons OR for specific/considerate reasons does NOT represent a conflict in values per se. This is because there is no real distinct moral value involved in their decisions to wait until marriage for "doin' tha nasty". It's not a global moral stance - rather, it is something personal.

 

And I think this is where I tend to butt heads with a lot of people, waiters and non-waiters.  I fall into the global/moral camp, thinking it is disrespectful to the intrinsic value of others to have sex before marriage ("Talk about dramatic!"). This is an issue that I think does and should have a moral valence, and not everyone does. If one person is waiting for global/moral reasons, and their partner is waiting for another reason, then their values do not align, even though their actions might.

 

When someone is waiting out of a moral conviction (i.e., global/moral motivation), I think being with someone waiting for the same reason is important, particularly if waiting until marriage is a value you wish to pass on to your children. But if your waiting is not moral in that sense, then it doesn't matter. That's not to say those waiting for the other two reasons are "immoral" - for them, the situation just doesn't have a particular moral importance.

 

And a DISCLAIMER before someone starts throwing stones: don't misinterpret the labeling of the "self-concerned" or "amoral". "Self-concerned" simply means they are waiting for "personal reasons". "Amoral" refers to a lack of moral valence for that situation in the eyes of the individiual, not lack or deficit in moral judgement on the part of the individual.

 

Those are my $5 bucks (it's WAY too long to be two cents). Attack me as you please. ;)

 

I hope not. I just wanted to get my view from that side out :D. Yes they are indeed. Now I have to open up word to respond to you. :P You do seem much calmer than I do, but I guess that’s because I imagine people talking when I read things, so I know my voice and I don’t know yours but I imagine it’s calm. Anyways, here we go.

 

You’re absolutely right. Actions can indeed have many motives. But you’re also getting into the point where you still don’t know their motives full on. They could still keep this from you. Someone who told you they decided to wait for themselves, may have changed their mind right before they met you, only to tell you they’re waiting because they know you are, and you’re duped thinking they are waiting for the same reason. And this is the unfortunate suspicious side of me where this is coming out but only because I’ve experienced this.

 

As for the charity example, I understand where that ties into this, but one person was not genuine at all. A person deciding to wait for you can still be doing it for a moral reason that would still align with your values.

 

 Wait wait wait. But doesn’t global/moral still rest in the amoral category because it’s what you want? Otherwise your morals would not be your own, if that makes sense? Is this global thing because one thinks it’s the moral thing to do for the world? LOL maybe I’m not understanding this so much :D. Please explain. I think they can still tether together in a way. Why would there be no distinct moral value for an amoral? To me it seems like there would be many distinct morals for someone waiting because it’s what they want. It still fits into the definition of ‘morality’. Why does something global have to be what’s deemed as moral? Maybe I’m taking the meanings differently.

 

So me personally, I fall into two categories then. I’m under amoral (self) and global. LOL.  I still don’t understand why it’s a conflict other than if the person was being ‘persuaded’ by you. Then it wouldn’t be considered moral. But being influenced by you from their own choice is different.  

 

But it does have moral importance. I can vouch for that. Claiming it doesn’t have moral importance makes only one of those 3 moral. I don’t agree with this :P. You must understand and change yourself first before you start to change the world, so starting with your ‘self’ is the first way you change things, then move to ‘global’ aspects. There is still that belief, but no matter what, those waiting for global purposes are still doing something they consider moral for themselves, unless you believe you have no autonomy over your moral beliefs. I know it’s a long way for people to believe in things as a mass consciousness, so for now, morality is very subjective. I think that’s why I’m fighting you on this.

 

From those examples I still don't see why it's bad other than what I said up there. If anyone has an example of this in real life, it would be greatly appreciated if you'd share. I can imagine the scenarios in my mind, but we're all different beings here LOL.

 

Hahaha thanks for that. But you may need to clear some things up for me :P. Good luck with my crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what matters is the individual's reason for waiting. And like I usually do, I'm going to present a philosophical paradigm:

Waiting until marriage can come from three motivations: self-concerned/amoral (waiting because it's simply what they want), other-considered/amoral (waiting because it's what the other person wants), or global/moral (waiting because they believe it is the morally right thing to do).

 

And I think this is where I tend to butt heads with a lot of people, waiters and non-waiters.  I fall into the global/moral camp, thinking it is disrespectful to the intrinsic value of others to have sex before marriage ("Talk about dramatic!"). This is an issue that I think does and should have a moral valence, and not everyone does.

 

 

Hm, I guess then I would've fallen into the self-concerned/amoral position, and my boyfriend would've fallen into the other-concerned/amoral position. I would like to pass on the ideal of waiting at least for a loving and trusting long-term relationship, and ideally for 'the one' to my children, though.

 

I would be interested in hearing you expand upon the ideas in the second paragraph I quoted. I think waiting is good for a lot of people's emotional well-being, and I would like to see it more accepted in today's society. However, I don't see anything morally wrong with someone making an educated decision to go down another path, if that's what they really want and they are able to find consenting partners. I have a good deal of polyamorous friends who seem to be quite OK with their decisions in life (I actually have more kinky poly friends than I do straight friends...it certainly keeps parties interesting, if nothing else :lol:).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what's causing confusion is the distinction between the moral and amoral decisions.  The "global" motivation is not about what one wants for themselves per se.  This is derived from Immanuel Kant's approach to morality, commonly known now as deontology.  "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will it shall become universal law."  Essentially, act towards another only as you would deem acceptable for them to act towards you.

I am waiting because I don't think it would be respectful to my wife to have slept with other people before her - I feel it would be "cheapening" her. And I feel this way because of how I imagine I would feel in that position.

In this sense, morality is not about what I want for myself. I would love to go around and have carefree sex. But I am confined by what I believe is morally right. Sex before marriage devalues the another individual in a sort of irreversible way - you can't get any more intimate than sex; it's not like kissing someone - I kiss my parents.

While I believe moral decisions involve subjectivity, I don't support the notion that morality is subjective. If someone thinks the Holocaust is morally fine, I would not deem their position acceptable, on the basis that moral righteousness involves respect of the inherent rights of others, rights I would not want violated in the position of the Jews. An example on a different level, perhaps, but still getting to the point of moral objectivity vs. subjectivity.

We do have moral autonomy - we make our own decisions. That doesn't entail that morality is itself open to subjectivity.

 

So I actually don't believe what one chooses to do needs to be considering "what's right for me". When one chooses to do "what's right for me", they don't consider it based on a moral rule that should be made universal. When an individual makes a choice to live a certain way for OTHERS, that is a concern of morality. The "vegan" who eats plant foods only because it is healthy is not making a moral decision; the vegan who abstains from eating and wearing animals in order to promote protection of their right to live and be free is. I would also argue the person who eats vegan near their vegan family member is being considerate, but is not driven by moral concern; this is the closest parallel to the specific/considerate motivation for waiting, though it might not seem so obvious. The person waiting "for their partner's sake" is not having sex with others outside of his/her time with their partner, as the family member would not eat vegan when not around the vegan. However, this is because the person "waiting" feels confined by monogamy - here, faithfulness/monogamy is a moral value to him/her, while waiting until marriage is not. The real similarity comes from opportunities - when the family member is not confined by that situation where s/he is with the vegan family member, s/he will eat meat. Similarly, the person "waiting", when outside that relationship (i.e., before or after the relationship - relationships are more likely to end than last forever), will have premarital sex, because they are no longer confined by the situation. The only moral value involved for this person is monogamy, but this is not the same as waiting until marriage. It's fine if one accepts him without the value of waiting, but this person clearly does not give moral consideration to waiting until marriage.

 

As for values changing, that's a whole other story, and we're talking about different stages in a relationship. Dating someone who's not waiting out of moral concern is one thing; marrying someone with that value is another - you may not require your dating partner to align with you in moral values; you may not even consider waiting until marriage a moral value. Again, it depends on where you are at. But waiting for your partner only because they are waiting, while considerate, is not based on moral axiom regarding waiting until marrage. That's where their "waiting" is not inherently moral. It's respectful to the partner, but that's not really the point - their "decision to wait with you" cannot be driven by a moral decision regarding abstinence.

 

Regarding the deontological approach, I posted a video on the video introduction thread where I discuss it in more detail.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean now. I can understand that. So you would only date a woman who has that same view – she doesn’t want to sleep with multiple people as it would cheapen her :P? You think it would cause conflict if she waited just to wait and had no specific reason? Would you insist on a reason then even if it was something true to her heart and her moral values and she was being genuine?

 

But you’re confusing me because your belief to wait is yours so they are your moral beliefs, maybe not directly FOR you. I get that you’re waiting for you wife because you want her to have the same beliefs because you feel that way but you’re still doing it for yourself but kind of in a loop. â€Sex before marriage devalues the another individual in a sort of irreversible way - you can't get any more intimate than sex†I also take this as true. But someone can still have this same belief but be waiting for a variety of other reasons :D such as maybe it’s because they have a strong relationship with the Catholic or Christian god and feel this belief will bring them closer, but they still believe the above quoted sentence as well. And hey now, you don’t make out with your parents. That kind of kissing is extremely intimate. Some people actually consider this more intimate than sex –if it’s good ;D. But no, you are correct with that, IMO.

 

There were a lot of people who thought the holocaust was morally fine. There were even more who thought it was immoral. Those who even thought it was immoral were forced to kill those they didn’t want to. Many of the police battalion were regular German civilians who were recruited by the Nazis and they actually backed out of shooting the Jews and Poles because they knew it was horrendous. But yes this is a whole other topic. But because of the Nazis, the holocaust would be subjective because there are absolutely two sides to it. Of course it was immoral. It was awful, but the Nazis thought they would create the ‘pure’ Aryan race and purge the rest. In a way to them it was still moral (and yes some are still very much alive). Typical psychopaths. I think once we truly understand the universe better we can understand what is objective, like we obviously exist. (please no nihilism LOL). Until then beliefs will always challenge other beliefs unless there is a world revelation :D. You know more about this factually than I do because like I said I haven’t read my books yet ): but I shall get to them soon >: D.

 

But we don’t know what is moral in truth. We have books and articles on these things from long ago, but someone could truly believe something immoral was moral. That’s what I think. We all have the autonomy, so we all have the capability of choosing what is right based on rational decisions, emotional decisions or heartfelt decisions. What rings true to someone will be what is moral to them, creating the subjective view. It doesn’t mean it’s universally moral, or what the creator chose to be moral, but we don’t necessarily know this yet even though we have some ideas like what you mentioned about rights of individuals to not be infringed upon.

 

Why is there only one moral rule to be a vegan :P? Why can’t someone live their own life as a vegan without having to be questioned as to why they believe what they’re doing is the ‘correct, moral way or being vegan?’ I believe the rest of this is for Steadfast so I’ll wait it out :D.

 

Well dating to marry the person would be different then, right? Not just dating to date. I agree with what you have said here by means of the person waiting for the person who is waiting first off.

 

Oh more learning :D through video! Yay!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have, and do, consider this. I think I'd even be impressed with a guy who gives me a chance, and wants to get to know me, knowing he isn't getting sex unless we get married. If he gets to know me, and then decides that he feels I am definitely worth waiting for (and with), I think I'd find that impressive AND a major compliment that he is giving to me. That he thinks I am THAT special to change himself like that. I feel like, at my age, completely ruling out a guy who hasn't waited just limits my possibilities even more. My line to draw is just WHAT did their past involve? I mean, I've 'hung out with' a self proclaimed 'ladies man'... womanizer. He was an old friend that I had a massive crush on. He led me to believe that he could see a possible future with me, but never wanted to make even a dating commitment. We never went out 'officially'. I mean, I got a new experience out of it, and now know that I enjoy kissing, but I didn't like how I felt in the end. I'm intelligent, and I KNEW that he would never be serious (although, as it turns out, he is married now, but I don't believe he's committed) but I let my crush get in the way of my better judgement. Therefore, if he was a known, or self proclaimed ladies man, I'd have to say no. If he had been with woman after woman, never being serious, I also don't know if I could do that. However, if he had only been with 1 to a few people, and only been with people he was serious about... yeah, I could handle that.

 

A big part of how I now see relationships stems from my experiences. I'm big on communication. There should NEVER be any assumptions made. If we start seeing each other, there should be a clear line drawn 'are we friends?' that's that. If we date 'casually', it means we can see other people, but I won't be sleeping with you. Discussions should be had if either/both of us feel we want more, or to break up. If we decide to date 'seriously', this means we only go out with each other. No sex, and they've decided I'm worth finding out if they want a future with me on a one-on-one basis. More discussions if one/both decide we want more, or less. Next step, I guess it's obvious, is if he asks me to marry him and we become engaged. I'd hope to find someone that wouldn't, necessarily expect an answer right that second, because I like to think things through but I can see myself being totally dumbstruck, but I also hope that I'll have the guts to go with my feelings in the moment. Still, no sex. Then, of course, marriage. Yes, sex. lol

 

I'm pretty specific about how I feel about these stages. I am a firm, almost religious, believer in communication.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either you're waiting because it is morally the right thing to do, or you aren't. That determines whether values align, and that is the most important thing in a relationship.

Morally, my personal view is that it's neutral. I don't think that our choices as waiters are right for everybody. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now