shaneb

A third way for Christians on the 'gay issue'?

41 posts in this topic

Who am I to Incriminate people who Sin differently than me. Especially if I want to teach them anything about a ''Graceful or Merciful God'' 

 

Many Christians have forgotten John 8:7 From Jesus mouth himself. This alone costs precious lives. But hating them for forgetting it would be kind of ironic

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Who am I to Incriminate people who Sin differently than me. Especially if I want to teach them anything about a ''Graceful or Merciful God'' 

 

Many Christians have forgotten John 8:7 From Jesus mouth himself. This alone costs precious lives. But hating them for forgetting it would be kind of ironic

 

I know you are trying to be gracious and supportive with this response and I appreciate that.  I just want to point out that to most LGBTQ+ people this doesn't sound gracious at all.  This statement still condemns our relationships as sinful. 

 

We all sin differently and I openly acknowledge that I sin but I don't believe that my marriage to my husband is one of those sins. 

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I know you are trying to be gracious and supportive with this response and I appreciate that.  I just want to point out that to most LGBTQ+ people this doesn't sound gracious at all.  This statement still condemns our relationships as sinful. 

 

We all sin differently and I openly acknowledge that I sin but I don't believe that my marriage to my husband is one of those sins. 

 

Well that would just be a difference of opinion on our part. I am sure there are Christians who think its a sin and Christians who don't think its a sin,etceterasexuals that think its a sin and etceterasexuals that don't, regardless of it being in the bible. Versus on homosexuality have been interpreted differently before. It is about as grey as suicide being a sin ,or euthanasia,or lying for a kids birthday party,or stealing from the rich to give to the poor. If the bible wasn't so hard to understand we wouldn't have denominations and significantly less controversy on many things. Sometimes i find it ironic that people are so quick to nag Christians for generalizing all homosexuals into the same boat but then so many people will generalize christianity regardless of how broad a term christianity can be.

 

To me , its a sin, its said in the bible, I have interpreted what I have read that God doesn't like it, but at the same time there's  versus about how we are all sinners and how God hates the sin but loves the sinners. It is pretty much the point of the bible, step 1, prove no one can be perfect, step 2, show how regardless of how hard we try to be perfect or do not try to be perfect God will love us as long as we love him.My God is a graceful and merciful God

 

It must be hard , giving free will to people and then observing what they do.I certainly wouldn't be able to do it

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...or stealing from the rich to give to the poor. If the bible wasn't so hard to understand we wouldn't have denominations and significantly less controversy on many things. Sometimes i find it ironic that people are so quick to nag Christians...

 

I know, right? Sometimes, I just wonder, "Why didn't Jesus leave us some kind of teaching authority to help us understand the Bible instead of leaving it all for us to puzzle out on our own?"

 

Oh, wait...

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!  :P )

 

xxx

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I know, right? Sometimes, I just wonder, "Why didn't Jesus leave us some kind of teaching authority to help us understand the Bible instead of leaving it all for us to puzzle out on our own?"

 

Oh, wait...

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!  :P )

 

xxx

I really think you could work for Catholic Answers or something though, Jegsy. Seriously. You could write a whole book based on the excellent responses you've left on certain forums. 

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I know, right? Sometimes, I just wonder, "Why didn't Jesus leave us some kind of teaching authority to help us understand the Bible instead of leaving it all for us to puzzle out on our own?"

 

Oh, wait...

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!  :P )

 

xxx

 

You're right. Scripture is SOOOOO difficult to understand that it took this teaching authority you speak of 2000 years to "infallibly" defined the meaning of only 8 (some say 12 or 15, no one can agree) of the 31,173 verses (35,529 if you include the deuterocanonicals) of the Bible. So we're essentially left in the dark of the true meaning of 99.98% of the rest of the Bible since it would take the Church roughly several million years to interpret all of Scripture at this rate. This teaching authority sure likes to take its sweet time. BTW, none of these infallibly defined verses are ones that address homosexuality. lol

 

Love you, Jegs :D

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I know, right? Sometimes, I just wonder, "Why didn't Jesus leave us some kind of teaching authority to help us understand the Bible instead of leaving it all for us to puzzle out on our own?"

 

Oh, wait...

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!  :P )

 

xxx

Priceless

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I really think you could work for Catholic Answers or something though, Jegsy. Seriously. You could write a whole book based on the excellent responses you've left on certain forums. 

 

Oh, gosh, thank you! (If people will excuse me going off-topic a second) I was actually wondering today what to do with my blog. I've been busy with university, so I've kind of neglected it, but I've been kind of bored, to be honest. I don't really enjoy writing the posts that much, and plus, I don't think my ideas are particularly great as to what to write. The most fun I've had, I think, is when I've been writing about something to do with Catholicism (e.g. embryonic stem-cell research, the premarital sex in The Fault in Our Stars and why I think it's problematic) or something kind of based in Catholic social teaching (before the independence referendum, I wrote about how I was concerned that it might divide the country, etc.).

 

I said in my first post that I wanted to write about things that concerned me, and that I might occasionally write about the Catholic faith explicitly, but was going to focus on other stuff. I just wonder if that should be my main focus. Now, that doesn't mean I couldn't write about other stuff like I've been doing, but it would still be tied to my beliefs in some way - I don't think I'd need to re-write any of the posts I've already written. I mean, it'd be like if someone asked me if, as a female writer, I'd only be writing about "women's issues" - it might not always be explicit, but that's really going to permeate everything I write in some way or another just because it's part of who I am.

 

My only concern with focussing more explicitly on Catholicism (e.g. blogging about Catholic issues, apologetics, etc.) is that I might be limiting myself in who I'd be writing to. The blog's main purpose is really as a writer's platform - in other words, get the website up to date, get myself some loyal followers there and on Twitter (and later Facebook), so that when my novel is finished and sent to agents, I'm going to look like a serious writer. You don't need to have a platform to get published, but it gives you an edge over those who don't, and it also means publishers take you more seriously - they know that you're a committed writer, and you're going to be hands-on at publishing your book (and if you have, say, 2000 followers, that's 2000 people you can encourage to buy your novel and recommend you to their friends).

 

So partly, my concerns are about getting my novel (and subsequent novels) published. It sounds kind of cold, maybe, but this is what I hope to do to make a living, and therefore I've got to think of what will appeal to readers. At the same time, as a writer, I feel a responsibility to my novel, and my characters, and the story I'm trying to tell, because I want it to go out to the world. I want the world to read it. If my novel didn't do well, I'd honestly feel that I let that story down, as silly as it might sound. My first novel, at least, is not going to be a "Catholic" book, aimed at Catholics, but rather just a story I believe in, told as best as I can, aimed at as many people as I can. So if I become known as a "Catholic writer" as in writing only about Catholicism, then my novel might just attract Catholics, and then I wouldn't be too happy with that.

 

However...Just literally in the last couple of days, I've been feeling this push to just go for it, and write about issues that really concern me. For one thing, I really enjoy writing about them. It's something I'm passionate about, and although I don't know for sure if I'll write more posts, I'm sure I'll write better. Not just about Catholicism, but I think it'll give me confidence in everything. I won't constantly be thinking, "Oh, I want to write about the value of human life in this post, but I don't want people to go, 'Here she goes with Catholicism again - she said she wouldn't go on about all of that'." It'll feel more honest, I think - I'll be very open about the fact I'll talk about my faith, and they're not going to feel like I'm sneaking my faith in, or whatever. I actually don't think it would mean changing anything I was going to write. It'll just give me the confidence not to worry about it. And then, I can write about whatever, and it'll just feel honest. I could write a book review, or an essay on poetry, or a short story, and just write it how I want to.

 

Basically, I'd just be saying upfront: "I'm a writer, I'm Catholic, and I'm just writing about things I believe in. If you don't share my faith, then that's okay. I'm not going to try to convert you, and I won't respect you any less, and feel free to write to me and say that you disagree with me on anything at all. I only ask and trust that you'll respect me for saying what I believe, and I aim to do so charitably."

 

And if I do that, I think people will respect that. It's like how I respect Penn Gillette, but not Richard Dawkins, lacklustre Christians, or doormats (obviously, I respect them as persons, but you get what I mean). I don't care if you agree with me or not, even if you tell me you don't agree with me. If you speak with charity, conviction, and courage, then I think that's great. If you say, "Your beliefs are stupid" or "I don't really know why I believe what I do" or "Well, I don't want to offend you, so I'm not going to say I disagree" - I don't think those are admirable qualities at all. And I think most people at least agree with that. Those people I think are my target audience, whether they're Catholics or atheists. I'd love it if people said, "You know, that writer Julie Gilmore, I disagree with most of her beliefs, but I respect the charity with which she speaks, the logic and reason she uses, and the bravery she has to actually speak out for what she believes."

 

If I can get that, then I'm really going to feel like I've achieved something. That's my aim. That, and of course, learning to respect others and their beliefs more - I really respect Penn Gillette because he's a nice guy and he's not too anti-Catholic, but I'd like to be in a position where I could talk to the most anti-Catholic person in the world, and shake hands with them at the end of our conversation and sincerely mean, "I disagree with what you say, but I respect you."

 

*sigh*

 

Okay, this has turned into another essay. You get the idea, though. I'm more and more convinced that I should just go for it, and write about what I want and not worry about attracting only a limited audience. I'm just feeling like God's telling me to trust Him on this one, and that this is going to work. And hey, if nothing else, maybe I can help some people to explain and defend their faith, and clear up some misconceptions, and maybe write things that move people. But, I'm really starting to believe that this is the way to go, and that it's going to work out for the best.

 

Right, now's the time when I give you a link to my blog, and ask you to tell me what you think. Ignore how basic everything looks, ignore the fact that there's only four posts (and the first one is out-of-date now, since it was kind of a mission statement). Just give me a feel for what you think of the writing style, etc.

 

http://writerjuliegilmore.wordpress.com/

 

(Tomorrow, I'll try to split this post and any replies into a separate thread, because I am definitely hogging it now...)

 

xxx

 

EDIT: Oh, and just as an afterthought, I don't think I'm particularly charitable or courageous, either (I think I've got conviction in being able to defend what I believe, but even then, I don't by any means know everything). It's just what I hope to aim for. I reckon if you aim for those things, then by God's grace, it'll happen. 

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Oh, gosh, thank you! (If people will excuse me going off-topic a second) I was actually wondering today what to do with my blog. 

 

At least add the word "gay" in your novel length post to make it at least somewhat relevant.  :P

 

You and your shameless PR campaign for the Catholic Church, Jegs. smh. lol

 

I really think you could work for Catholic Answers or something though, Jegsy. Seriously. You could write a whole book based on the excellent responses you've left on certain forums. 

 

Oh please, don't encourage her. lol

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Oh please, don't encourage her. lol

 

But we must!  :P Don't be jealous. Jk. 

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If the bible wasn't so hard to understand we wouldn't have denominations and significantly less controversy on many things.

 

 

I know, right? Sometimes, I just wonder, "Why didn't Jesus leave us some kind of teaching authority to help us understand the Bible instead of leaving it all for us to puzzle out on our own?"

 

Oh, wait...

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!  :P )

 

xxx

 

 

You're right. Scripture is SOOOOO difficult to understand that it took this teaching authority you speak of 2000 years to "infallibly" defined the meaning of only 8 (some say 12 or 15, no one can agree) of the 31,173 verses (35,529 if you include the deuterocanonicals) of the Bible. So we're essentially left in the dark of the true meaning of 99.98% of the rest of the Bible since it would take the Church roughly several million years to interpret all of Scripture at this rate. This teaching authority sure likes to take its sweet time. BTW, none of these infallibly defined verses are ones that address homosexuality. lol

 

Love you, Jegs :D

 

Yes, one does wonder why an all-powerful deity would trust the fate of humanity to a few obscure texts...

 

tumblr_lrh7hqNIM51qii6tmo1_500.gif

 

...<3 you all!   ;)

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Right, now's the time when I give you a link to my blog, and ask you to tell me what you think. Ignore how basic everything looks, ignore the fact that there's only four posts (and the first one is out-of-date now, since it was kind of a mission statement). Just give me a feel for what you think of the writing style, etc.

 

http://writerjuliegilmore.wordpress.com/

 

(Tomorrow, I'll try to split this post and any replies into a separate thread, because I am definitely hogging it now...)

 

xxx

 

 

I think your style is good. The way it is now, it doesn't seem like it would drive off non-Catholic readers at all. And if you want to be published, it really is best to establish an online presence and a readership before you ever go to a publishing company. Seems like you're on the right track to me!  :) On a technical note, I noticed that when you click the link to a post from the main page, it redirects you to the point in the article where the preview of that same article ends on the home page (uh...hopefully that makes sense). I'd recommend changing that, if you can, as I think most people will click through after reading just the title, and it's a bit annoying to have to scroll back up.

 

(Also, I'm totally willing to duke it out with you over the Fault in Our Stars thing. Just kidding! Sort of....  :P )

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I can't participate much in the original topic but Jegsy, I read your "essay" and there are a couple of things I thought I'd reply to. I have a blog as well - in fact, I've been blogging for almost two years now. My goal is also to build a writer's platform so that when I get my novel published (fingers crossed), I've already put myself and my writing out there. So in that respect, our situations are very similar.

 

Since I started my blogging journey, I've learnt a lot. I created my first blog in January 2013, and my primary goal was to share my life with friends and family as I finished high school and moved overseas for university. My secondary goal was, like I said, to build a platform. My posts were an eclectic mixture of "15 things you didn't know about the Titanic", "My holidays in pictures" and "Climate change and hypocrisy in the New Age community". As I explained in my About page: "Most of the time I blog about my life, experiences, poetry and Pagan path… the rest of the time I'm just babbling away." There never was a clear purpose to my blog, it was just a place to write and share things that interested me. That was a problem - I didn't have a specific audience to target, and so I didn't gain many followers.

 

Another problem that I encountered is that I never felt comfortable sharing the more personal aspects of my life - specifically, my faith. I was open about it, but other than for religious festivals, I never wrote about it. I was scared that people would be put off. Most of my friends and family are either devout Christians or firm atheists who would find my beliefs silly, strange or plain sacrilegious, so I kept quiet. But the more I developed my blog, the more cramped I felt: my faith is an important part of who I am, and though not everything revolves around it, it does influence many aspects of my life. By not mentioning it, I felt like I was repressing my true self and pretending to be someone I wasn't.

 

In the end, I created a new blog on WordPress and made it specifically about Hellenismos. I didn't tell my friends or family about it at first, so I could give myself time to set it up and start posting. I did tell them eventually, and had a bit of trouble with a couple of family members - one of them told me I needed to "start living in the real world"… Um, thanks? Can't I have a religion now? - but it's all sorted out now and the blog is well-established. Even better, my views and subscribers have increased exponentially and I have way more than on the original blog! I feel much more comfortable using this one as a platform, because although everything I write about is viewed through Hellenic lens, I feel like those lens give a much clearer picture of who I really am.

 

This taught me an important lesson: people won't read your blog if there isn't anything unique about it, especially if it's a generic "this is my opinion" blog. So how can you be unique? The best way to be unique is to be you - all of you. My point is, if people sense that your writing is passionate and genuine, they won't mind if they disagree with your underlying beliefs (well, so long as they aren't belittling or proselytising) because it's you and your voice that they like. Many of the people who follow my blog aren't Hellenic polytheists or even Pagans: they're there because they're interested in what I have to say, not necessarily because they agree.

 

Something else to think about: when your novel gets published, will the fact that you're Catholic really stay secret for long? Will you even want to keep it a secret? I know that, for my part, I will be open about my faith if ever I become a renowned author - partly because the Pagan community needs role models who aren't only famous because they're Pagan, but mostly because it's simply a part of who I am. Yes, people will disagree with me and I'll probably get hate mail at some point, but that doesn't matter. Not to mention that if people don't want to read my Hellenic blog, they don't have to - they can just stick to reading my books! But if they are interested in Hellenic life and beliefs, by keeping a blog about the subject, I'm gaining that many more followers who will potentially read my novel when it comes out. Fans of my books might not read my blog, but fans of the blog are likely to read the books.

 

One of my favourite authors at the moment is Brandon Sanderson, who is Mormon. Do I agree with his beliefs? Not in the least. Does that prevent me from enjoying his books? Not at all. He doesn't have a website where he writes about Mormonism, but if he did, I wouldn't be opposed to reading it - he certainly seems like an intelligent man, and he has a lot of good points to make about creative writing. A blog written by him, even if it was religious in nature, would no doubt be interesting to read.

 

What I'm trying to say (and I feel like I'm doing a terrible job of expressing it, someone stop me before I ramble off the edge of the world) is that people will respect you if you stay true to yourself. They might not agree, but they will admire your passion. As you said:

 

I'd love it if people said, "You know, that writer Julie Gilmore, I disagree with most of her beliefs, but I respect the charity with which she speaks, the logic and reason she uses, and the bravery she has to actually speak out for what she believes."

 

I've already seen from your posts on WTM.org that you have the potential for that. Your arguments are well-constructed and I can tell that you have strong feelings about topics that relate to Catholicism - not only that, you're not afraid to speak up about them. That's why I enjoy your posts so much. Now if you applied that to blogging… :)

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Well this thread has been totally derailed.  :)

 

Haha! Sorry…  ^_^

 

I would get it back on track but I'm probably not the best person for that... Um, yeah. Christians. Gay people. The Bible and stuff. Right?

 

Okay, I'm out  :superwaiter:

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Wait a second, can you split a thread into two different threads? Someone do it for me!

 

xxx

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