Renegade

"I'm waiting because you're waiting."

13 posts in this topic

So...I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but I REALLY need some advice and insight on this from you guys....I met a guy who is very gentlemanly, righteous, respectable, etc. We have the same beliefs, interests, values, etc, but when I brought up the topic of waiting he said he was neural.

 

He basically said that if he was with someone who was WFM then he would wait too, and if was with someone who was NWFM then he wouldn't wait either.

 

This really bothers me, but in all other ways he is a morally just person and a great potential match for me...What should I do? Should I consider dating this person or should I take it as a sign that I need to move on and find someone who isn't 'neutral'? < : o

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Renegade,

 

   You are beautiful person both on the inside and out. In opinion It does seem a little rocky... hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I think I would just remain friends. He seems a little contradictory. He has good morals and values that match you but on a sexual basis it is hard to say. He DOES seem like a cool guy but if on a sex level he seems like he has little to know concrete foundations.  Then I think you guys are best off friends. Thats just what I think... 

 

P.S: Good luck

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I think it sounds like a situation where you should give it a shot. That sounds exactly like I was at one point, I had met a girl who was waiting, which then in turn caused me to wait and actually take an interest in waiting even after the relationship was over.

I had been completely neutral on waiting, I wouldn't have waited had I never met somebody who had. Not because I had a problem with it, but because I was just in the middle about it.

Good luck if you decide to give it a shot!

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I don't know really that's what my ex said in a way. That just lead to heart ache mostly on my part. It's a tough situation to tell though I wouldn't date a girl that said that but that is me.

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Well it may end up good like what happened for Josh or it may not be such a good idea. I'd say just weigh your options and think about what's the most important thing for you in the situation. Personally I'd want an already convicted waiter who is looking out for all women's purity but this guy might end up being a great guy for you and you might be able to change him for the better If things don't work out...

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If you do pursue him, don't expect to be able to change his mind about this subject. If you're going to pursue him, then do it as if you'd be OK if he never changed his mind on this subject. One bit of advice I always hear is that one shouldn't expect to be able to change a love interest, and should find someone who is how they want them prior to getting into a relationship.

 

That said, if you can overlook this issue, then I see no issue pursuing him.

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This really bothers me, but in all other ways he is a morally just person and a great potential match for me...What should I do? Should I consider dating this person or should I take it as a sign that I need to move on and find someone who isn't 'neutral'? < : o

 

I think you've answered your own question. I think you know deep inside that this issue is too important to you to be with someone who is just neutral, even if they are open to waiting.

 

I'm going at this from a different angle than many others who has replied so far. The fundamental problem with a waiter being together with a non-waiter of any kind is the inherent difference in how we view sex. Us waiters view sex with a special degree of exclusiveness that should only be expressed through marriage, the ultimate commitment to another being. If we think of sex as something so special, then the only thing that makes it even more special is being with someone who has the same convictions. I couldn't imagine sharing my first time on my wedding night with a woman who thought it nice I waited for her, but didn't understand or appreciate it in the same way I did. That bond in that supposedly intimate moment would not seem as meaningful to me. In fact, it would feel cheap. I don't want my future wife to think of the act of waiting as just a novel, but unnecessary idea. I want her to be one with mind in body, mind and spirit.

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours. If you can live with the fact that he has an indifferent view on sex, then he does sound like a good idea otherwise. Maybe you could help him see the value in waiting and perhaps he will change his views. All I know is that I don't think I should have to convince someone to have the same views as me.

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What if he decides he can no longer do it after you've started dating and you are already so emotionally invested?I mean that's still a possibility.... but if you think you can handle it and are willing to take the risk,then I say go for it.

 

P.S I have to say that waiting is easy in theory but hard to commit to in reality and even harder without something pushing you towards it.When I decided to wait I was all ready and even though I knew it was not an easy thing to do, I never thought it would be that hard. And I'm sure am not the only one here-many people feel or have felt at one point in time like giving up and usually what keeps them grounded is their faith, convictions,beliefs and like someone has said it's going to be harder without that strong foundation to stand on.

The way you've said it, seems like he thinks it just something you can just do and that it comes natural but I would just make sure that he understood what's he is in for and would not just back out as soon as the going got tough.

 

That's my two cents anyways:-)

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I'm going at this from a different angle than many others who has replied so far. The fundamental problem with a waiter being together with a non-waiter of any kind is the inherent difference in how we view sex. Us waiters view sex with a special degree of exclusiveness that should only be expressed through marriage, the ultimate commitment to another being. If we think of sex as something so special, then the only thing that makes it even more special is being with someone who has the same convictions. I couldn't imagine sharing my first time on my wedding night with a woman who thought it nice I waited for her, but didn't understand or appreciate it in the same way I did. That bond in that supposedly intimate moment would not seem as meaningful to me. In fact, it would feel cheap. I don't want my future wife to think of the act of waiting as just a novel, but unnecessary idea. I want her to be one with mind in body, mind and spirit.

 

Even though I don't quite have waiting as a dealbreaker (she can just happen to still be a virgin), it would be tough for me if she didn't view sex as extremely special. If we ended up together and I was like, "I'm so happy I finally got what I wanted-the most special sex that is between two who only know each other," and she didn't really take any joy in that at all, it would be very disappointing. Ultimately not disappointing enough for me to make it a dealbreaker, but still disappointing. I'm kind of thinking this might not be a big concern for me, though, as I'm thinking more and more that if I meet the type of woman I'm attracted to and she's a virgin, then it's almost certain she must be waiting. This might just be something I'm feeling because of all of the promiscuity I've heard about lately, though.

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Even though I don't quite have waiting as a dealbreaker (she can just happen to still be a virgin), it would be tough for me if she didn't view sex as extremely special. If we ended up together and I was like, "I'm so happy I finally got what I wanted-the most special sex that is between two who only know each other," and she didn't really take any joy in that at all, it would be very disappointing. 

 

I tend to think that even if the person wasn't WTM, they would ultimately end up seeing and understanding and celebrating the specialness of it even if they weren't WTM from the beginning. In other words, just because they didn't yet make a firm commitment to WTM, under the given circumstance, it is probably impossible not to celebrate the outcome. At least for many people. And this is assuming both parties are virgins. With the aforementioned case, knowing you're each other's one and only, that's something you just can't ignore and I think would naturally be celebrated regardless of a person's original position on WTM.

 

If someone's not a virgin, and they are holding out just for you, they may not see sex as something so special. At least this could be argued. The flip side, though, is that if they are not a virgin, but are willing to wait for you, a long duration of going without sex in a relationship might heighten and naturally be conducive to appreciating the value of sex.

 

I just think it's a little presumptive to say that because someone isn't waiting, they will not appreciate the specialness of sex if they end up waiting for a waiter. While that could be the case, I'm speculating that in many cases it would end up not being the case at all.

 

Though this should go without saying, if the non-waiter ever tries to pressure the waiter into sex, then obviously none of the above applies.

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I would have to disagree with the above - not everyone can be influenced into thinking that WTM is special, especially if they themselves are non-WTM

I have mixed feelings about this topic...

I think it all depends on how much this guy ends up loving you, and how much self-control he has. In a relationship between a WTM and a non-WTMer, there is going to have to be a lot of self control by both your part, and by his part as well. If you dont feel like he'd be able to cope with months and months of abstinence, then there might be a red flag. It might get harder for him after the first month or two! However, if you do feel like the person will love you enough, and if you think he can genuinely cope with the change in lifestyle, then go for it :)

Very difficult situation!

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I would have to disagree with the above - not everyone can be influenced into thinking that WTM is special, especially if they themselves are non-WTM

I have mixed feelings about this topic...

I think it all depends on how much this guy ends up loving you, and how much self-control he has. In a relationship between a WTM and a non-WTMer, there is going to have to be a lot of self control by both your part, and by his part as well. If you dont feel like he'd be able to cope with months and months of abstinence, then there might be a red flag. It might get harder for him after the first month or two! However, if you do feel like the person will love you enough, and if you think he can genuinely cope with the change in lifestyle, then go for it :)

Very difficult situation!

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough; though I did make the qualification "at least for many people."

 

I also wrote:

 

"I just think it's a little presumptive to say that because someone isn't waiting, they will not appreciate the specialness of sex if they end up waiting for a waiter. While that could be the case, I'm speculating that in many cases it would end up not being the case at all."

 

I never said everyone can be influenced into thinking WTM is special.

 

Further, I also made the qualification that this only applies to those who are truly willing to wait for the other person. Not those who are trying to convince their partner to give in.

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guys...  here is one man's experience...   those of you who know a bit of my story (I'm a successful waiter... longtime married/dad) may recall that i married a woman who was not a virgin, but who in fact chose to wait with me.

 

Like IAG noted above...   this was NOT a case of her slowly over time trying to convince me to have sex.   This was a case of us growing comfortable with our boundary lines, and importantly agreeing together about waiting.  It was NEVER easy LOL.   We were human, we both had sexual urges and desires, we both were affectionate and warm people who wanted to express our love to each other in all ways.   But.  We also had a plan about that, and ultimately lived the plan.

 

Sex that first time was undeniably special - for BOTH of us - and truly a celebration.  As it was the second time.   And the third time.   well you get my point.  

 

I am not insensitive to the array of reactions this discussion thread brings up for each of you... i would also suggest to you all that like everything that is interpersonal...   your feelings in holding back on sex, anticipating sex and ultimately having sex - inside marriage or not - is a pure reflection of who you two are as individuals and as a couple.

 

Does your partner - virgin or not - celebrate the romance of your relationship?  Do they celebrate the small everydayness of holding your hand?   of a sweet kiss on the cheek as much as a passionate kiss on the lips?   Those are all important signals as to whether sex will be celebrated... vs just a pursuit...   which I know is buried within this thread... the fear that a non-waiter is ultimately just playing the game of wearing you down to pursue sex.

 

My dating experience included yes one or two who were playing that game... and ultimately i saw those relationships for what they were... i don't mean the sex issue - i mean the relationship issue.  we weren't matches - we were trying each other on in a dating relationship and we weren't fitting - at least from my angle.

 

And then I met a woman who was not playing that game.  She had made a different choice along the way but made a powerful choice with me.   Special for us both - celebrated by us both.   Because we were two people who sought that sort of relationship, regardless - or perhaps as a consquence of - previous choices.

 

one man's experience guys - 

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