sagittarius

I am dating a girl who wants to wait until marriage

35 posts in this topic

Hi, Tempest.

@sagitarrius: Having read through things here, it would seem that those people who waited and had regrets, weren't truly regretting waiting...they were regretting that they didn't gain enough street smarts to end up choosing the right person. Like perhaps that actually felt that they didn't use their pre-marriage time well enough and didn't learn to discern good people from bad people or compatability from incompatablity well enough, to avoid someone who would make their lives at the very least difficult.

I agree. People regretted ending up with the wrong person. AND, a large part of WHY they ended up with the wrong person is because they followed what their parents told them to do, or what their church told them to do, and did not ever learn to discern things for themselves.

So if you want to follow celibacy, do so for your OWN reason, and not because others say you 'should' do things a certain way.

I know that it never felt that sex outside of marriage was the right thing at the time

If that is what is right for you, then I applaud you for recognizing this.

I just hope to learn to discern well enought to end up with the kind of person who will influence me to questioning a decision I know in my heart is the right one and has made all the difference in my life.

I sincerely wish you luck and this kind of discernment, to find the person you desire and who is right for you.

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So what do you believe then is following God in other aspects of your life ??

This is a separate conversation but I follow God in almost every aspect of my life.

I do recognize that I am not perfect. But my efforts and intentions are sincere.

there are also ppl who waited and are happy that they waited....

I would very much like to meet some people who ARE happily married, and in retrospect are happy they waited.

As of this moment, I have yet to meet a single person (born 1970 or later) who fits this description.

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1. To me at least, this 'getting experience' deal sounds way too much like you're using various people...

I don't "use" people.

...to get better at something that should be learned with the person you marry and commit yourself to.

Please don't get into "should"'s. By this you are suggesting there is only ONE path that every person needs to take. Life doesn't work this way.

2. My parents have been together for around 30 years and they both waited...and they are still very in love and guess what? My mom and dad both have made enough hints that they are glad they waited...and this does relate to the physical component of the relationship. So, there...one couple who's happy that they waited.

My hats off to your parents. I do feel that today is a different time. We don't have a depression, a WWII, or a Cold War literally threatening our survival. Such extremely harsh conditions can bind people together. However, I would not wish such brutal conditions upon future generations, and I hope you would agree with me here. But, among people who have a wide range of free choice, I have yet to meet a couple, or even a person, who is glad they waited. Granted, I do not live in Utah where such things are likely to be more common.

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Yeah, funny thing is, at first my dad (who gave me a lot of my early moral instruction) used the 'scare-the-crap-out-ya' approach. In other words, "If you have sex outside of marriage, I will find out, since I'm your dad...and when I do, I'll kill you! LOL. Then, when he saw me getting older and smarter, he sat me down and gave me a nice philosophical/spiritual chat, adding that ultimately I had the right to choose when the time came (he just felt that it was a good thing to wait, as he and my mom had and it had made all the difference, in the positive sense)...but he gave me some pretty convincing reasons for waiting (without the previous threats, lol). On top of that, I've had the kinds of life experiences that only added to my resolve to wait (seeing the emotional effects that not waiting has had on girls and guys...and not wanting to be one of those douchebags who sleeps with a girl and eventually breaks up with her, when the next hottest thing comes along, etc.). I just put two and two together and, on top of seeing the example of my parents, who both waited and are glad they did (my mom and dad have both said that waiting for each other was the best decision they ever made, on top of the decision to marry each other), and these reasons/reasoning made enough sense to me. I also think that it's just plain and simply a better decision to wait, given the fact that once you lose your V-Card, you can't get it back, even if you want to. Just too much risk for me. And besides, I'd rather have a stable relationship that has at least some solid guarantee of lasting, before I go all in, so to speak. Quick question: So, are you ultimately not attacking the notion/lifestyle choice of waiting-till-marriage...just attacking the same kind of thoughtlessness that a lot of people exhibit when diving into sex-outside-of-marriage...except in this case in relation to the decision to wait? Just kinda seems like that...which might make some more sense to me...and provide for common ground in this debate.

See ya on the flipside,

Tempest Desh

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Yes it is the thoughtlessness that I am criticizing. If you want to wait, that is fine as long as it is a freely-made CHOICE and not something that is mandated from an outside authority who claims to represent the word of God.

I actually waited for a long time. And it was certainly not because of religion (I had experienced enough hypocrisy by the time I was 13 to last me for a lifetime). I had my own reasons. And I remember seeing, guys getting drunk and punching each other and becoming sworn enemies because, "he took my girl!" All of it reinforced my resolve to wait until I found somebody who was special.

I'm also not overly promiscuous. Most single people who are more sexually liberated regard me as an amateur, which I readily agree I am. There are codes of ethics and social norms involved with the single scene that I will probably never understand, nor do I want to. I do see girls degrade themselves and chase guys who do nothing but degrade and use them. In fact, these girls are attracted to the guys who degrade them! I see guys waste much of their lives preening themselves and learning stupid behaviors that will only net them short-term opportunities to get off. Usually at the expense of long-term ambitions. For me this has never been a worthwhile trade-off.

However, toward my late 20's I realized that virginity was no longer serving me. It wasn't helping me, in fact it was ruining my chances with the very women I had waited so long to meet, found myself interested in, and heartbreakingly found myself shot down time and again because they "just don't feel that way about" me. After this happened twice, I was devastated, and after it happened four times, my confidence was completely gone. There was no support for remaining a virgin, my emotional condition was becoming worse and not better, and I decided to make a change.

I remember the letter I wrote as a prayer. I probably still have it. And, a few days after I sent it out, a woman I had met a few months ago called me out of the blue and wanted to get together. We spent a few days together, got along, and one morning I put out there, "yes, yes, I'm ready." And that was that.

She and I did not last forever... but it was a clean and innocent exchange. I was later with a girlfriend who was sexually manipulative, and played the "cute" card very well while she withheld sex to get her way. We had a strong connection, and our families really liked each other, but boy am I glad I did not marry her. Another girl was a single mother of two and I learned a lot about raising children just by watching her and living with her for about a year. There have been a few others, but each has contributed to my life in a really significant way. Each experience/person has been a special, learning experience and when I do finally meet the somebody whom I want to spend my life with (and yes my goal is a lifetime partnership), I am ready to power a great relationship. My eyes have always been on the prize.

As for losing the V-card and never being able to get it back, I think that mindset is motivated by fear, and not by love. Fear and guilt have no place in any practice of faith. You can fear a bear's attack, and you can fear the loving embrace of God as it approaches, but you should never fear the joys of life. So what if you are no longer a "virgin", who cares. You are still a child of God, as pure and untouched as the day you were born, and that is what's important. There are virgins with terrible hearts, and there are prostitutes with hearts of gold. Don't be judgmental, especially of yourself. There is no shame or blame in living life, so long as you love God with all your heart..

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wel....actuly it dosse say its a sin but anyway the religus stuff dosent even matter realy is like jegg said

then the biggest reason she has for waiting is nothing to do with religion or statistics. She's waiting because she believes that making love is special. Special enough that she wants to save it for the one man she truly loves, more than anyone else in the world.
thats why evryone i know that waits dose. including me. its whats really imprtant. there are just a lot of other upsides

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@ sagittarius: None of those event you mentioned had ANYTHING to do with my parents marrying (happily at that) and staying together and even less to do with why they waited. My father is from the other side of the world (Bangladesh to be specific) and is Muslim. My mom is Christian and American. My dad went through the Liberation War of 1971 in what was then East Pakistan. My mom was nowhere near there and grew up in the Mid-West US. On top of this difference in circumstances, I could write volume after volume of reasons why (according to YOUR theories) they would have gotten divorced/regretted their decisions. But every time I'd put down my pen or the book itself and look up from writing/editing, I'd still see them there, HAPPY AND STILL TOGETHER AND NOT REGRETTING THINGS ONE BIT. And tons of people just like you tried to break them up with, but they stuck together. So, before you go around making such rash and (frankly speaking) offensive remarks/assumptions about the nature, substance, and viability of someone's relationship(s), maybe you should drop these generalizations, eh? None of them make much sense in my experience and as one can see on this site and elsewhere, there's a treasure trove of information and research supporting the decision to wait-till-marriage. Just ask Mike or anyone with any REAL knowledge of the subject. I've seen the power of love, faith, maturity, and intelligence in my own family life...and I honestly feel that these are some of the main things lacking in our current generation, where people are far more apt to follow their momentary whims than anything greater than mere passions...and this lack does figure into why we have so many problems in the sector of Life that comes up for discussion on a site like this. Anyways, I think I've said enough for now...

See ya on the flipside,

Tempest Desh

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Hi Sagittarius (and everyone else) :)

I've been busy with work this week so haven't had time to put up a proper reply. Sorry for the delay.

This thread has gone in all sorts of directions since I last posted. So I'm just going to reply to sagittarius response and then add a thought of my own.

In regards to pregnancies and STD's, these are just risk factors that must be evaluated. Some people are willing to take the risk, others aren't. That decision is in your hands and nothing can change that. For me, the risk of getting a girl pregnant is too high. I am in no position to support a child so I don't want to even allow the 1% chance that it could happen.

The only tweak to your statement is it has to be a fulfilling relationship. Lots of people are in committed relationships yet unhappily so.

You'll notice that I said 'better chance of finding a relationship that lasts.' I didn't say that it guaranteed a great relationship.

Unfortunately, we live in a broken world and no 'perfect' method will get you the 'perfect' relationship with the 'perfect' person.

I believe that we have to make the best decisions we can with the best information we can get. If that decision turns out to be wrong, then we learn from our mistakes an move on. I've made the decision to be a virgin because I think it is the best way to build a long term committed relationship. This may change with with shifts in time or circumstance, but for the moment I am happy with it.

While I believe this decision is the best for me, it may be completely un-needed or un-wanted by someone else. It comes down to what you want from and are willing to give to your partner.

So to specifically answer your point, if you are in a relationship that has turned bad, get out an move on.

Teachman believes that because the majority reported engaging in premarital sex and then cohabitation before marriage, this sequence has become an acceptable part of the path to marriage....

Women planning to live with their prospective marital partners can take comfort from the finding that if they have premarital sex and cohabit only with their future husband, it should have no effect on their future chance of divorce.

I too had noticed this in the study. So from a strictly biological point of view, the relationship doesn't need the piece of paper, the rings and the big party. I would argue that if you are living together, why not get married? It's fine if you don't want the big dress and oversized cake, just sign some paper work. I hear there are great tax advantages as well :)

"My love, you may ask why have I had relationships in the past. And my answer is, wouldn't you rather me confidently know what to do in certain situations, how to acknowledge and treat you as a woman, and know when it's time to shut up, than have a partner who is constantly fumbling and stuttering, and does not know how to make you feel special?

"I dated a single mother of two, and learned a LOT about how to raise children. I dated somebody who came from a huge family, and learned a LOT about how to make a good and positive impression. I have coached ex-girlfriends through their later relationships, and learned a LOT about what does (and does not) make them feel appreciated.

"All throughout these experiences, I never forgot my goal: to learn everything I could, so that when I finally met the right person, I would have strong enough relationship skills to not only sustain the relationship, but support it in being a wonderful experience for both of us. This is what I have always wanted, and YOU are who I want to share this with."

These are all great things to say and valuable to a relationship. I just don't think you need to have sex to get the experience. Let me be clear, I think that it is essential when seriously dating people that you get to know them on a deeply personal level. I just don't think you need to bring sex into it.

That's the reply done, now I want to point the discussion in another direction.

I think this whole argument is going to end up being a sidebar to the real question: is your relationship and communication with this lady strong enough to work through the problems? Couples have to make decisions on topics a lot more life changing than this one. Where to live, if/when to have kids, how to balance relationship and work, and how to cohesively live together? If you aren't able to reach a compromise on this issue how will you be able to work out one on these bigger issues?

This has already been largely discussed in the thread so I'm not going re-hash content. There was just one thought I had. If she's from a conservative background then she's probably really close with her family. The love and closeness that you offer her is going to have to be more than what she is currently getting from her family for her to consider leaving them for you. I don't know if this is true, but it just crossed my mind....

I would be keen to know how things pan out if you are willing to share them....

I hope this thread has helped you with your journey and your relationship. :)

Best of luck :)

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i think u should get your girl friend to join the site, because from what i have read i think she will need our sport more that u. hope u dont question her beliefs so much to her face. anyway just my opinion :)

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Hi everybody,

Rather than one reply per post, It's dwindling down so I'll include everybody in one.

Andrea: The one point I have been making here is that the Bible does NOT say premarital is a sin. And nobody has proven me wrong on this.

What I would offer to the discussion is that PERHAPS waiting has more downside than upside, after a certain age. It was certainly the case for me, as the older I got, the less and less there was to be hopeful about.

Have you ever read the book, A Prayer for Owen Meany?

Tempest: I honor that your parents are happy together, and think they made a respectable decision. I have never tried (to the best of my knowledge) tried to break up a couple. I have also never pressured or coerced anybody into giving up or going against their values. As the adage goes, go with what works. If you think I am being offensive then that is your projection. I am only offering perspective. I've actually enjoyed your posts, as they have been thoughtful except for this one.

Rogue:

I've made the decision to be a virgin because I think it is the best way to build a long term committed relationship. This may change with with shifts in time or circumstance, but for the moment I am happy with it."

This was my approach until age 28. Then, I'll say circumstances changed and my decision no longer served me. I do not regret waiting. And I think you have a rational and grounded perspective on this.

I just don't think you need to have sex to get the experience.

I used to believe this. But, starting around age 23, I found that my lack of knowledge about sex directly prevented me from being able to connect with women I was interested. (plural meaning two, the one who I REALLY wanted and then another who was also excellent) In retrospect, I was AFRAID of sex and sexual energy. There was an imbalance. And it drove the very person I wanted to connect with, away. After it happened four times total, I decided to make a change.

head girl: I have thought of getting her to view this thread. It may happen. And if it does... hi honey! :) But she does have a lot of support in her life. Which I think is good. Except most of it is from the church. Which I think is bad.

Last note: Miss Girl and I are having communication difficulties, and much of it spawns from differences of opinion around sex and religion. I just wish she would divorce herself from the damn church and start following Jesus's original intention like the first 12, but she has to be able to see that for herself. Time will tell how this plays out.

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas.

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