sagittarius

I am dating a girl who wants to wait until marriage

35 posts in this topic

Hi,

The girl I am seeing is a virgin and I am not. She is truly beautiful (by this I mean she has a number of physical features that almost make me think she was custom-tailored for me), we get along well, and I am seriously looking for a marriage-calibre partner.

But she is a virgin. And if it is meant to last, then yes I am willing to wait. But I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

She is a Christian which is a mixed blessing. My personal faith is fairly strong but I do not like the church one bit. The church has been guilty of severe atrocities ever since it was formed, and most Christians put the church's interpretations of scripture ahead of, well, scripture. Besides that, there is not one single reference in the Bible of "you should wait until marriage." But the church is fond of making their believers believe this is the case. So this REASON is at best misguided.

I do like her strength of character, as well as many other things about her. But is the virginity thing really a plus? I don't want to be married, three years in, feeling frustrated and every time I bring up the subject I get, "the Bible says that sex is a sin!" To me that is not a healthy or a happy life or partnership.

Any thoughts.

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First off, thank you both for the warm welcome. I do feel love in your responses.

And now, for the main event. :)

Whoa! Is it your girlfriend that says the 'Bible says sex is a sin'?

She does say more of what you are implying, that sex is an awesome thing that belongs in marriage. It's the "that belongs in marriage" part that seems like a dictate and an artificially imposed rule that goes against nature but is insisted upon by a church which falls short of the glory of God. To follow a rule imposed only by a flawed church, is putting the church ahead of God, which is not good.

The Song of Solomon is a book dedicated to the beauty that is marriage and sex. Also check out Proverbs 5:19.

I actually read the Song of Solomon, and it has nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. It is a tale of lust. Which to me seems like an endorsement of such acts, in whatever form any two consensual adults choose to engage.

With all due respect, you're wrong.

With all due respect, I might be right. You don't know for sure. And you are not in a position to make such judgments.

No, the Bible does not use those exact words...

This is important. Because there are no exact words defining that sex before marriage is a sin, specifically means it is NOT a sin. Especially when considering the Bible makes references to sexual morality in so many other ways. Even Leviticus, that questionable book promoting slave ownership while condemning just about every unorthodox behavior under the sun, makes no mention of sex before marriage being a violation of God's plan.

...but the Bible does make it clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Examples please?

In 1 Corinthians 7:1 the question raised to Paul is "It is good for a man not to have relations with a woman" In response, Paul answers, in verse 2, that "because sexual immorality is so common, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her husband".

Many things. First, Paul directly contradicts Jesus's teachings several times in his letters, and I am convinced that just because somebody experiences a flash of light, does not mean every word they write is divinely inspired. So you have to take anything Paul said with a grain of salt. He was a student, not the master. And you have to read his words as such.

Second. "Sexual immorality" is not defined in this passage. But I might define it as using sex as a weapon to hurt others. Abuse, assault and general ex-relationship spite are good examples, each of which existed before and still exists today. The Bible never really defines what "immorality" is in this case.

Third. If individuals are free from sexual immorality, they do not need their own spouses. There are many references, on this site and elsewhere, to the celibate life. Did Mother Teresa have a husband? She did not, so she is violating the passage you quoted. But would you consider her a sinner because of this?

Two teenagers in love, or single people seeing and experiencing the world, are not immoral if they happen to engage in something that is available, natural and innocent. As long as they have love in their hearts, and love for each other, they are not immoral.

In essence, sex outside of marriage is sexual immorality.

This is your interpretation, and it is not proven by the quote you provided.

Sexual immorality is also forbidden in countless other Bible passages (Acts 15:20...

Again, "sexual immorality" is not defined. This verse does, however, forbid the consumption of meat of strangled animals. Are you a vegetarian? If not, then according to this verse, you are every bit as immoral as a serial rapist (which I think DOES count as sexual immorality).

For proof of strangulation, watch any video about cattle slaughterhouses. Yet I do not see churches banning the consumption of meat.

Additionally, in Matthew 5:27-28, Jesus explains that to even gaze at a member of the opposite sex (who isn't your spouse), for purposes of arousal, is adultery.

I agree with this. But, Adultery is cheating on a spouse. Two unmarried people are not spouses. Although, I could see the principle extended to unmarried monogamous commitments as well.

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that to have sex with someone who isn't your spouse is a sin as well.

Again, this is an interpretation that you came up with. It is not reasonable to assume this at all.

Anything else? :)

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Hey Sagittarius! Welcome to the site!

This is important. Because there are no exact words defining that sex before marriage is a sin, specifically means it is NOT a sin.

Uh-uh. Hebrews 13:4

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge"

And, just to clarify, Dictionary.com:

for·ni·ca·tion[fawr-ni-key-shuhn]noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

I actually read the Song of Solomon, and it has nothing to do with marriage whatsoever. It is a tale of lust. Which to me seems like an endorsement of such acts, in whatever form any two consensual adults choose to engage.

Uh-uh. Yes, it's a little unclear at some points, but it definitely is about a husband and wife, for instance, chapter 4 verse 8, where the Bridegroom says: Come with me from Lebanon, my bride, come with me from Lebanon.

You're welcome! :lol:

xxx

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Hi Sagittarius,

Welcome to the debate club. :lol:

Instead of chasing a rabbit down the black hole of scriptural interpretation, let me offer you some practical reasons why people choose to WTM.

The four biggest points are:

1 No out of marriage pregnancy.

This scenario is especially tough for the woman who gets pregnant as they face severe disadvantages financially and socially. Yes they might get support from their partner or choose an abortion, but these cases are the minority. No wonder women don't want to take the risk.

2 Less chance of getting a STD.

Herpes, chlamydia or gonorrhea, these are the under-represented problems that can come from multiple sexual encounters. They are probably not as much of a threat in your case, but are a good reason not to be promiscuous.

3 Better chance of finding a relationship that lasts.

Here is the link to the latest study that has been posted on this site. Link

Quoting from the study, "It is this experience of multiple sexual relationships that Teachman finds to be associated with an increased risk of divorce."

This study relates to women. While it points to 'multiple sexual relationships' rather than 'having sex before marriage' as the link, the idea of having one sexual partner provides the best environment for your relationship is still true. What better way to create this environment than in marriage?

4 Romantic motivation

My biggest personal motivation is love, not fear of God, STD's or unwanted pregnancies. I want to give everything I have to my future wife. By abstaining, I'm saying to her, "I love you so much, I want to share this special part of me exclusively with you." "You are the only person who has this deep physical emotional connection with me." "I care for you so much, and I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to have sex with you, because if we break up, it will cause you even greater pain."

In my experience, this is the hardest concept to communicate to a non-waiter. Generally the idea that 'I love you so much, I don't want to have sex with you' comes across as an oxymoron. That's because it is very much a case of perspective. You're going to have to have a conversation with your girlfriend about these perspectives and which ones you both believe in.

One thing that I do want to stress though is that just because she doesn't want to have sex with you (yet), doesn't mean that she doesn't love you.

That's my take on things anyway. I hope I've given you something to think about and I hope to hear a reply.

Best of luck and take care :)

Rogue

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Greetings, all :)

And welcome, Sagittarius.

I'm not going to venture into the theological debate. Who we are and where we came from are questions that have been wrestled around since the dawn of Man, and it's not likely that we'll make any serious headway on them tonight... but I will take a stab at the original question. :D

RogueRaider said:

My biggest personal motivation is love, not fear of God, STD's or unwanted pregnancies. I want to give everything I have to my future wife. By abstaining, I'm saying to her, "I love you so much, I want to share this special part of me exclusively with you." "You are the only person who has this deep physical emotional connection with me." "I care for you so much, and I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to have sex with you, because if we break up, it will cause you even greater pain."

This is where I sit. (Thanks, Rogue! ;) )I'm not motivated to remain a virgin by a particular religion or science. As RogueRaider pointed out, there are a myriad of reasons for an individual to make this decision, even outside the bounds of faith. I would suggest sitting down with your girlfriend and having an open, honest discussion about virginity and Christianity, as these seem to be the two areas of contention you addressed in your original post. You may not agree with each others decisions, per say, but you may be able to find validity and respect in each others reasoning.

I do like her strength of character, as well as many other things about her. But is the virginity thing really a plus? I don't want to be married, three years in, feeling frustrated

It's a plus to some and a negative to others. If having a physically mind-blowing sex life nailed down and ensured before marriage is near the top of your list, I would urge you to be honest with yourself and your girlfriend and move on. It's valid, and you'll both be happier. If you value a mental/emotional bond just as much (if not more) as a physical one, than waiting it out with her is something to consider. If her decision is wholly faith-based and you can't find validity in that to the point that it genuinely bothers you, then that may be a true problem.

I may be incorrect, but the feel I get from your post is that a larger contention for you two lies in faith. If you find your personal faith often clashing with your girlfriend's Church-bound views, that may be the greater underlying issue to address. Unless you can find some middle-ground there, it's likely that you two will come up against more hurdles to get past (beyond the issue of virginity) in the future. After all, one's faith directs one's life, and if you two plan to marry one day, the direction of your lives will need to merge and compliment each other, faiths included.

That's all just my opinion, of course... ;)

Claire

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Hi everybody! :)

This is a worthy topic, and by working much of it out here on this forum, I am perhaps saving inter-relationship difficulty.. or at least advancing the conversation.

I am going to reply to Rogue's post first, because it hits closest to home.

The four biggest points are:

1 No out of marriage pregnancy.

2 Less chance of getting a STD.

Anytime I have ever gotten involved with anybody, these two areas have been a priority. There are ways to reduce these risks (condoms, spermicides, nuva rings), but the best advice I offered myself was to be extremely selective about who to get involved with. No partners who disrespect themselves, and no women who are looking for a baby as a security blanket. People I have known who contracted diseases have told me they received very stern warnings (from call it the Holy Spirit) NOT to get involved with a specific person...and ignored these warnings. I'll say I have been lucky and blessed to date, and for this I am extremely grateful.

3 Better chance of finding a relationship that lasts.

Now we are talking about something I am interested in.

The only tweak to your statement is it has to be a fulfilling relationship. Lots of people are in committed relationships yet unhappily so.

At least three women have shared with me their stories, of waiting for marriage (or at least their marriage partner) because they were told that was the honorable thing to do, and all throughout their marriage they were miserable: sex was unfulfilling, their husbands cheated on them left and right, and yet they stayed with it because they believed in honoring their vows even if their husbands did not. One of these women ended the marriage after her husband rammed her head into a wall when he was angry. There is NO Biblical scripture that can possibly justify commanding a woman to stay in a dangerous situation like that. Would you want to subject children to such a situation? Yet she "waited till marriage," and she did not find a relationship that lasted, nor a happy one, until she started dating multiple people.

I have also spoken with men who waited till marriage, and later confided they wished they explored a bit when they had the chance. Some lived through a sexless and verbally abusive marriage, and ended up starting over from scratch at age 30. Others are happy but every once in a while the regret comes out.

I know there are studies suggesting those who wait are on average longer lasting in marriage, but the hit ratio is far from 100%, and for those whom have been let down by the "wait till marriage" approach, they feel cheated and that the prime of their life has been wasted. They certainly tell their children to not trust the same "wait till marriage" approach that failed the parents.

Teachman believes that because the majority reported engaging in premarital sex and then cohabitation before marriage, this sequence has become an acceptable part of the path to marriage....

Women planning to live with their prospective marital partners can take comfort from the finding that if they have premarital sex and cohabit only with their future husband, it should have no effect on their future chance of divorce.

Did you just prove my case for me??

4 Romantic motivation

My biggest personal motivation is love, not fear of God, STD's or unwanted pregnancies. I want to give everything I have to my future wife.

I think this is beautiful, commendable, and worth acknowledging. I could say the same about my biggest personal motivation.

By abstaining, I'm saying to her, "I love you so much, I want to share this special part of me exclusively with you." "You are the only person who has this deep physical emotional connection with me." "I care for you so much, and I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to have sex with you, because if we break up, it will cause you even greater pain."

Abstinance is not the only way to say all of those things. It may not even be the best way.

Here is another way:

"My love, you may ask why have I had relationships in the past. And my answer is, wouldn't you rather me confidently know what to do in certain situations, how to acknowledge and treat you as a woman, and know when it's time to shut up, than have a partner who is constantly fumbling and stuttering, and does not know how to make you feel special?

"I dated a single mother of two, and learned a LOT about how to raise children. I dated somebody who came from a huge family, and learned a LOT about how to make a good and positive impression. I have coached ex-girlfriends through their later relationships, and learned a LOT about what does (and does not) make them feel appreciated.

"All throughout these experiences, I never forgot my goal: to learn everything I could, so that when I finally met the right person, I would have strong enough relationship skills to not only sustain the relationship, but support it in being a wonderful experience for both of us. This is what I have always wanted, and YOU are who I want to share this with."

I am not saying I am 100% sure this girl is "the one." But I do seriously consider every woman I spend time with, for this role.

One thing that I do want to stress though is that just because she doesn't want to have sex with you (yet), doesn't mean that she doesn't love you.

Thank you for stressing this. Even though it is early in our connection, I very much believe and experience this.

That's my take on things anyway. I hope I've given you something to think about and I hope to hear a reply.

My pleasure!

Best of luck and take care :)

Thank you. :)

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Hey Sagittarius! Welcome to the site!

Thank you, very much.

Uh-uh. Hebrews 13:4

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge"

That is one translation... here are two others:

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Neither of these versions use the word "fornication." Neither of these translations pass any kind of judgement upon unmarried people who get down with each other.

As for the Song of Solomon...

Uh-uh. Yes, it's a little unclear at some points, but it definitely is about a husband and wife, for instance, chapter 4 verse 8, where the Bridegroom says: Come with me from Lebanon, my bride, come with me from Lebanon.

The word "spouse" is finally used in 4:8, but the very next verse (4:9) starts using wording such as this:

"Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse"

And then "my sister, my spouse" is used in tandem several times later.

I don't know what "my sister" means, but I doubt it is incest. Therefore, if "sister" is not meant to be taken literally, neither is "spouse."

You're welcome! :lol:

You're welcome also.

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This is not a "main event" to me. This is somebody speaking about the Bible, a book which is important to me.

Perhaps a discussion about the Bible, since it is important to you, is a "main event!"

Yes, I am in a position to make such judgments. I do know for sure. I have a Masters in Theology and this was a pretty straightforward topic (no offense). I do still have much to learn. You don't have to trust my judgment; ask any reputable pastor, theologian, or a seasoned member of a church you trust. Or contact a teacher of a Christian university.

Academic degrees, university assignments, and church rankings do not confer the authority to judge, nor do they confer infallible interpretation.

[The Song of Solomon] is a tale of love and marriage, not lust.

Song of Solomon 2:3, "I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste," is pretty darn lustful. You can't get much more of an explicit account of a woman giving a man oral sex than this.

Yes, this is an interpretation but I did NOT come up with it. They are in my HCSB study notes.

...

I got "my interpretation" from the HCSB Study Bible which is written by seasoned, reputable, knowledgeable theologians. This version of the Bible has also won an award.

Again, theologians and awards do not establish divine credibility. Popularity, yes. But not credibility.

Hey, if this is your viewpoint, that's fine....All I ask is that you not say that this view is endorsed by the Bible (because it is not).

Some of what I write is my own viewpoint, based on life experience. I am happy to share this, and do not assume that my view is endorsed by the Bible.

However, "sex before marriage is a sin" is another viewpoint, which is fine... but you should not say that this view is endorsed by the Bible either, because it is not.

you claim that Paul contradicts Jesus' teachings?

Yes, because he does.

You conveniently left out my part about the gift of celibacy.

I actually mentioned it. But your Corinthians 7:1-2 reference does not allow for this exception, so those verses are by themselves incomplete. I do respect the gift of celibacy, and have been celibate for most of my adult life.

All throughout your post you were splitting hairs.

Perhaps. But they are important hairs. There seems to be this universal Christian belief that sex before marriage is a sin. I am postulating that it is not a sin, and that basing life choices upon such a belief does great harm to levels of intimacy that two people would experience, without this derived and false belief making things complicated.

Since I am in a situation where this false belief may impact my life directly, I have chosen to highlight this false belief, to shed light on it, so that a truer belief, one more in accordance with the true will of God, can be realized.

Best of luck to you and your girlfriend.

Thank you...sincerely.

Your points have gotten me to consider much. My purpose with this thread is not to troll, but to come to a kind of completion, to settle the issue once and for all.

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Ahh, last post for tonight. :)

Greetings, all :)

And welcome, Sagittarius.

Thank you Claire!

there are a myriad of reasons for an individual to make this decision, even outside the bounds of faith. I would suggest sitting down with your girlfriend and having an open, honest discussion about virginity and Christianity....you may not agree with each others decisions, per say, but you may be able to find validity and respect in each others reasoning.

We have had two very intense conversations about this, during the past two weeks!

And, well, we're still talking. So that has to be worth something. I appreciate your perspective though.

If her decision is wholly faith-based and you can't find validity in that to the point that it genuinely bothers you, then that may be a true problem.

People somtimes place faith in things that, in the end, are revealed to not be grounded in truth. Pedophile priests claiming to be closer to God than the children they were abusing, and the victims' parents were keeping faith in the priests. Things like that.

I have no problem with real and true faith, in fact I love it. It is solid, it is grounded, it is real. I do have a problem with faith in things that are not real and true. You might call them idols. And this false viewpoint... waiting until marriage only because an interpretation of a religion says so, is not real faith. It's not real, it's not divinely inspired, it's not in harmony with God's plan.

I may be incorrect, but the feel I get from your post is that a larger contention for you two lies in faith. If you find your personal faith often clashing with your girlfriend's Church-bound views, that may be the greater underlying issue to address. Unless you can find some middle-ground there, it's likely that you two will come up against more hurdles to get past (beyond the issue of virginity) in the future. After all, one's faith directs one's life, and if you two plan to marry one day, the direction of your lives will need to merge and compliment each other, faiths included.

You hit the ball out of the park here. This is EXACTLY why I am making such a big deal out of this. I don't mind teaching or showing somebody who is open-minded and interested. And I am open-minded and interested enough to consider and learn from a different veiwpoint. But the important thing is that our intentions are in alignment. If we can reach a real harmony, then we don't even have to agree on every detail, because the overall flow of the relationship dynamic will just work.

If our intentions are not in harmony, then this issue is going to turn into another issue, which will turn into another issue, and five months or 15 years later a lot of resentment will have built up. So, I am taking this issue very seriously.

What both she and I have in common is that our personal faiths are the very highest priority for both of us. It is rare to meet somebody else who is just as sincere. As with all things, being both engaged and patient will bring out the right outcome.

I really enjoyed your post...thank you for sharing.

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hi nice to meet you, do u have a bible handy? read the song of solomon i think it will explain it all to you :)and no sex is not s sin its just for when u r married

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look u r fighting on a side that only you are on mabe if you wearnt so quick to give ancers and you took some advice, you would learn from us here, and is that not what you joned for? we are all happy am shure to help if you are willing to listen and tacke on bored some of the things people are saying insted of knocking them back ;)

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Hey again! This is fun, I love debates!

That is one translation... here are two others:

King James Version said:

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

New International Version said:

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Neither of these versions use the word "fornication." Neither of these translations pass any kind of judgement upon unmarried people who get down with each other.

Fair enough. I'll give you that one. Although, the definition of "sexual immorality" is pretty vague. It could include sex outside of marriage. It depends on what you view as immoral, I guess.

The word "spouse" is finally used in 4:8, but the very next verse (4:9) starts using wording such as this:

"Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse"

And then "my sister, my spouse" is used in tandem several times later.

I don't know what "my sister" means, but I doubt it is incest. Therefore, if "sister" is not meant to be taken literally, neither is "spouse."

True. Of course, you could take "sister" literally if you consider that one definition of it is (Dictionary.com again, how did I ever do without it!)

3. a female person who belongs to the same group, trade union, etc, as another or others

So...same tribe as him, perhaps? But...there is only one definition of "spouse": either member of a married pair in relation to the other; one's husband or wife.

But...that's not really important, is it? We could argue about this all day.

The fact is, whether you think the Church is wrong, or the Bible is wrong, or that the Bible says this, or doesn't, or if you want to look at statistics about cohabitation or divorce or marriage satisfaction, or whatever...none of that really matters. You love this girl, right? Well...she's decided she wants to wait until marriage. And, if she's anything like me, or like most of the people I know on this site, then the biggest reason she has for waiting is nothing to do with religion or statistics. She's waiting because she believes that making love is special. Special enough that she wants to save it for the one man she truly loves, more than anyone else in the world.

Do the two of you ever talk to each other about her reasons for waiting? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it almost sounds as if you're trying to come up with reasons as to why she shouldn't wait. I'm sure you're not trying to come across that way, as you sound like a nice guy, but to me anyway that's how it comes across. And if you are trying to come up with reasons, just remember, it's her decision. And if she's serious about waiting, then it's not going to matter how many arguments she hears about why she shouldn't. She'll most likely be waitng just because she wants to wait.

I really admire that you're giving this a chance: most guys run a mile when they find out a girl's waiting. And it sounds like you really like her! So...if you want to wait with her, then you've found the right website. We're here for you if you ever need us!

Anyway, this has been fun! :lol:

xxx

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"The fact is, whether you think the Church is wrong, or the Bible is wrong, or that the Bible says this, or doesn't, or if you want to look at statistics about cohabitation or divorce or marriage satisfaction, or whatever...none of that really matters. You love this girl, right? Well...she's decided she wants to wait until marriage. And, if she's anything like me, or like most of the people I know on this site, then the biggest reason she has for waiting is nothing to do with religion or statistics. She's waiting because she believes that making love is special. Special enough that she wants to save it for the one man she truly loves, more than anyone else in the world."

this is why i love this website, when im down someone says something like this that just fill me up inside and reminds me why it is all worth is. thanks i think you just made my day with a few lines. :)

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Sagittarius,

From reading so far, I was wondering something: is your problem with the church affecting your relationship w/ your gf because she follows the church ? And what church is that specifically? Maybe you two need to talk about the reasons WHY you believe certian things and either agree or disagree with "the" church.

Personally I am WTM because its so special to me. I want makng love with ny husband to be tje best it can be and part of that is me not comparing him or being distracted by pjs times. I already compare kissimg, so who is to say I wouldn't compare more than that ?

I am Christian, baptized catholic, but not sire where exactly I stand on everything. I believe God has my best in mind for me and wants WTM for me so I can experience the most intimate, loving relationship possible. (No commitment worries)

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Throwing a few virses out here 1 Corinthians 7:2-4 KJV

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

1 Corinthians 7:34, 36 KJV

There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

I'm not judjing you on wether you wait and i think pepol should choce not just based on religon (any religion)I'm just saying the bible dose say that marrdle sex is not only just good but incuraged.its just preymatal that's wrong acording to the bible

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If you like enough and it turns to love then you should be willing to wait.

TRUE LOVE WAITS

no matter the case

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@sagitarrius: Having read through things here, it would seem that those people who waited and had regrets, weren't truly regretting waiting...they were regretting that they didn't gain enough street smarts to end up choosing the right person. Like perhaps that actually felt that they didn't use their pre-marriage time well enough and didn't learn to discern good people from bad people or compatability from incompatablity well enough, to avoid someone who would make their lives at the very least difficult. Trust me, I've had similar thoughts as them, even though I'm still waiting. However, whenever I think back to those times that I could have been 'getting some', I know that it never felt that sex outside of marriage was the right thing at the time, so I would've made the same decision. I just hope to learn to discern well enought to end up with the kind of person who will influence me to questioning a decision I know in my heart is the right one and has made all the difference in my life.

See ya on the flipside,

Tempest Desh

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Hey again!

Hi Jegsy.. thank you for your second reply.

The fact is, whether you think the Church is wrong, or the Bible is wrong, or that the Bible says this, or doesn't, or if you want to look at statistics about cohabitation or divorce or marriage satisfaction, or whatever...

I am not arguing that the Bible is wrong, which I think many of you misunderstand. (Except for certain passages in Leviticus, where Paul disagrees with the teachings of Jesus, and the fact that most books have been translated five times between languages to get to English--certain words in ancient Hebrew or Greek just don't have equivalents or the same cadence in English--but these are details). The Bible truly is a remarkable tome.

You love this girl, right? Well...she's decided she wants to wait until marriage. And, if she's anything like me, or like most of the people I know on this site, then the biggest reason she has for waiting is nothing to do with religion or statistics. She's waiting because she believes that making love is special. Special enough that she wants to save it for the one man she truly loves, more than anyone else in the world.

Awww, that's nice.

If only things worked that way. But they don't.

Just this morning I spoke with a friend of mine who is now in her 40s, grew up extremely strong in her Christian faith, and for many years had a wait-till-marriage approach, for those exact same reasons. And you know what? She did get married, and her sex life was...completely boring. An absolute dud, no excitement, no passion, no pleasure, and no fulfillment. She was like, "I waited and held out this long...for this??" She is still quite strong in her faith, but she now believes this "wait till marriage" belief is rooted in fear and not in love.

I do not know a single person, not a SINGLE person in Generation X or later, who "waited until marriage" and later in retrospect was glad they did. They might have no regrets about their intention, but while I was waiting until marriage myself, these friends (who successfully did wait until marriage or at least until they found their marriage partner) actively encouraged me NOT to wait.

Is it possible that some of you are getting your hopes up too much?

What will you do if you find that "special" person, and it turns out to be less than you hoped?

What will you do if you are 45 and still nobody shows up?

I really admire that you're giving this a chance: most guys run a mile when they find out a girl's waiting.

Thank you... I am not flaky and there are more important things to me than getting my "number" up. However, I have committed my life to truth and the way; when somebody "believes" something that is incompatible with God's plan, I have to point it out.

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Hi Sally,

From reading so far, I was wondering something: is your problem with the church affecting your relationship w/ your gf because she follows the church ? And what church is that specifically?

The only problem I have with the church is it doesn't follow the will of God. If somebody follows God's footsteps, I have no problem with their actions. If however somebody follows a misguided church leader who falls short of the glory of God, then I do take issue with the actions that are influenced by said church leader(s).

Personally I am WTM because its so special to me. I want makng love with ny husband to be tje best it can be...

There is a thing called skill in lovemaking. If you want something to be the best it can be, wouldn't you want to get some practice and experience, so you become GOOD at what you want to be doing? It is like saying, "I dream of being on the big screen as an actress, but I don't want to act in school plays or local theatre because I want my stage time to be as special and the best it can be."

and part of that is me not comparing him or being distracted by pjs times. I already compare kissimg, so who is to say I wouldn't compare more than that ?

This is a maturity issue. You can't be jealous of his past experiences or compare him to others you have shared things with. In fact, if you DO wait, you might still wonder what else might have been. This issue has nothing to do with waiting vs. not waiting. Best approach is to be present and love your partner as if he (or she) is the only person in the world.

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So what do you believe then is following God in other aspects of your life ??

And there are always 2 sides to an arguement---there are also ppl who waited and are happy that they waited....

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1. To me at least, this 'getting experience' deal sounds way too much like you're using various people to get better at something that should be learned with the person you marry and commit yourself to. One of the things that turned me off to sex outside of marriage to begin with.

2. My parents have been together for around 30 years and they both waited...and they are still very in love and guess what? My mom and dad both have made enough hints that they are glad they waited...and this does relate to the physical component of the relationship. So, there...one couple who's happy that they waited.

See ya on the flipside,

Tempest Desh

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Hi Andrea, and thank you for weighing in.

There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

From what I read of this above paragraph...you are endorsing my view! "if she pass the flower of her age...he sinneth not: let them marry."

???

its just preymatal that's wrong acording to the bible

This is where I disagree with you, and the entire purpose of my arguments here. It is NOT wrong according to the Bible.

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Hi Stephie,

If you like enough and it turns to love then you should be willing to wait.

TRUE LOVE WAITS

no matter the case

Can't say that I agree with this at all.

The truest love relationships I have ever witnessed, did not wait.

And those who have waited, were not coming from a place of true love.

It's not my opinion, it is just what I have witnessed.

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