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Mirage

A Good Youtuber For Sciencey Types

16 posts in this topic

So as a short introduction, I am an Atheist. I do believe there might be a higher power, however I have far too many doubts to be a part of any Religious group. I recently found a good video and following the links discovered a treasure trove of great videos.

Remember to check out more of this guy's stuff before slamming him. There's quite a lot of it, and there are some pretty funny atheist comedy pieces.

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...Interesting.

 

Firstly, why is this a video for "sciencey" types? I didn't see any reference to science in the video, just twisted theology and philosophy. If you're equating atheism with science, then you do realise that religion and science aren't in conflict, and you can be both religious and scientific? I myself am a Catholic studying psychology at university.

 

Secondly, it's a very odd portrayal of God. I'm not entirely sure why the creators of the video believe God to be completely cold and unfeeling to human suffering. I can't think of any religion that considers God to behave in such a way. The video says, "God favours evil people over good", which is an extremely flawed understanding of religion.

 

Thirdly, I would like to point out: The video basically tries to say that, "There's no God, because if there was, why would God allow bad things to happen?". For a start, just because there's evil in the world, it doesn't follow that there can't be a God. There's no real link between those two things. One reason I believe in God is because it makes logical sense. How did the universe begin? If you say, "With the Big Bang", you're not answering the question. What caused the Big Bang? And once you've answered what caused the Big Bang, you then have to ask yourself, what caused the thing that caused the Big Bang? And so on, and so on, until you get to a point where you have to say that there was a first cause. There was something in the very beginning of time which has always existed and did not have to be caused by something else. Whatever this first cause was, it had to have infinite power, because it takes infinite power to create a universe from nothing. This first cause is what we as religious people call "God". I recommend looking at Thomas Aquinas' 5 Proofs for God's existence if you're interested in learning more. You said yourself that you believe that there could be a "higher power".

 

Also, I must say I'm a little...confused by why you posted this video? It's awfully...dare I say...anti-religious? It's not just a video of scientific or philosophical proofs for God's non-existence, or whatnot, that we might have found interesting or thought provoking; it's a little cartoon portraying God as hateful and stupid. Which is...weird...

 

Anyway...Welcome to the site! Feel free to PM me or post in my "Ask a Catholic" thread, or whatever if you want to ask me a question. Or we could have a debate, or something, because those are fun!

 

xxx

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Youtuber Jegsy, not video. This was the video I found. I shall find a better video for science if you wish. Also, it is not anti-religious. The creator of this video is an atheist, which I personally believe is just as religious as Catholicism. We just concern ourselves with different arguments than other religions do, mainly the absence of said religions.

You are correct that the video I posted was not science-ey enough. I just posted the one I was on, changing that now.

Sir Thomas Aquinas was a great man, however his points are all similar. Points 1 and 2 are the same point, and point 5 is nothing more than an assumption that perfection must exist. Also, Aquinas uses points that refer to a single creator at some point in the past. However Aquinas was a Christian and thanks to this everyone always seems to assume that these arguments were used to argue for the existence of the god of Abraham. This is not necessarily true, Darkmatter himself admits that there could be a God. However the God(s) of Christians, Muslims, the Ancient Greeks, Hindus, and most other religions are simply ridiculous in the way they are portrayed.

You say that one reason you believe in God is because it makes logical sense. However you are a Catholic are you not? And as I stated earlier, the Catholic God does many things which do not make sense. Starting the universe? Sure, I can believe that. However appearing randomly, handing out rules, contradicting itself and just generally making life hell for people (literally) does not.

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Okay, I watched your second video. Again, I'm confused.

 

First thing it did was disprove that there were Gods living on Mount Olympus. Fair enough. Then it disproved that God(s) live in the sky. Again, fair enough.

 

But then, it said that everyone who's ever claimed to be God is dead now, including Jesus. But that's not true. There were more than 500 eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen Jesus after His crucifixion, including non-Christians. Then, it claims that Jesus said the world would end in the first century AD. I have never heard of such a claim being made. It's not in the Bible, it's not in early Church writings, it's not recorded in the writings of early Christians. When did Jesus ever claim such a thing?

 

Then, it says that the Bible must be wrong because it says that the earth was created before the sun, but it fails to realise that (at least for most Christians), the book of Genesis isn't supposed to be taken as a literal account of creation. How could it be? It might have been inspired by God, but it was physically written by human beings who lived centuries ago and who could never have understood something as complex as the Big Bang theory. Scientific understanding of the creation of the universe has changed dramatically over the centuries, so instead of a literal account, it's metaphorical, because it means every generation could understand it.

 

Then it argues that it's just too "convenient" that God lives outside of space and time and outside of the universe and therefore we can't physically discover Him. Unfortunately, that's just the way things are. I've already mentioned the "first cause" idea above. If God existed before the universe began, before time and space began, then it's not that surprising that He'd exist independently of those things. If He's an infinite being with infinite power, and we're finite beings with finite power, then it's understandable that we can't "discover" God.

 

Although, I do admire how much work's gone into the video. It's very professional-looking. Slick. I like that.

 

 

 

Sir Thomas Aquinas was a great man, however his points are all similar. Points 1 and 2 are the same point, and point 5 is nothing more than an assumption that perfection must exist. Also, Aquinas uses points that refer to a single creator at some point in the past. However Aquinas was a Christian and thanks to this everyone always seems to assume that these arguments were used to argue for the existence of the god of Abraham. This is not necessarily true, Darkmatter himself admits that there could be a God. However the God(s) of Christians, Muslims, the Ancient Greeks, Hindus, and most other religions are simply ridiculous in the way they are portrayed.

 

I agree with you; I don't believe that Aquinas proves the existence of a specifically Christian God, just that there's a creator of the world. You need more evidence to prove the existence of a specifically Christian God.

 

 

 

You say that one reason you believe in God is because it makes logical sense. However you are a Catholic are you not? And as I stated earlier, the Catholic God does many things which do not make sense. Starting the universe? Sure, I can believe that. However appearing randomly, handing out rules, contradicting itself and just generally making life hell for people (literally) does not.

 

Appearing randomly? How so? The Catholic Church wasn't made up overnight. She has her foundations in centuries of Jewish teachings and traditions, which were fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ. Christ gave His apostles instructions to found His Church, and after His death and resurrection, the apostles did so, writing the Gospels and other written works which were to become part of the Bible, passing on Christ's teachings to others, and preaching the Good News around the world. After the death of the apostles, the bishops and priests who they'd passed the teachings on to continued working to build up this Church. 2000 years later, and the Catholic Church is still here. I'm not sure what part of the Church "appeared randomly," so to speak.

 

Handing out rules? Sure, the Catholic Church has rules, and asks people to follow them. Because we believe that the Catholic Church speaks for God, and the rules which are "handed out" come from him. It's a little more complicated than just coming up with rules, of course. Teachings are based on the teachings of Christ and of Sacred Scripture, which are then interpreted as required for the 21st century. For example, "Thou shalt not kill" would be used as the basis of modern day teachings on life issues: abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, and so on.

 

I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate on "the Church contradicts herself", because I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

 

And I think it's unfair to say that the Catholic Church makes life literally hell for people. We don't force people to believe anything, or to act in a certain way. We don't just say to people "This is a sin" because we want to make life difficult for them. We teach things because we believe them to be true. Think about it: if you really believed that something was true, you believed you had substantial evidence to back this claim up, and you believed that unless people knew what you knew, they'd be in serious danger, would you not tell others what you believed? They don't have to believe you, but you have to try, because you know that it'd be dangerous for them not to know. 

 

xxx

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Don't have time to write a long answer at the moment. But I believe Mirage meant the Catholic God. Not the Catholic church in his last paragraph.

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Who is this "Catholic God" you speak of? Just never heard this before, lol :)!

(I am Catholic by the way)

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Mirage, I highly doubt, with the attitude you've taken, that you have an in-depth knowledge of Islamic doctrine...especially since most Westerners are quite ignorant of anything that is from outside their cultural frame of reference. The God of the Jews, Muslim, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and etc. is the same God...though each group has a different understanding of said God. I might make an attempt to delieate what us Muslims ACTUALLY believe concerning God, as so many of the crituques made against Islam by atheists and agnostics and such like yourself, in reality, apply to Christianity and Judaism's understanding of God, morality, etc. as opposed to Islam.

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Don't have time to write a long answer at the moment. But I believe Mirage meant the Catholic God. Not the Catholic church in his last paragraph.

 

That's correct.

 

Who is this "Catholic God" you speak of? Just never heard this before, lol :)!

(I am Catholic by the way)

 

I refer to the Catholic God as the God of Abraham and Joseph.

 

Mirage, I highly doubt, with the attitude you've taken, that you have an in-depth knowledge of Islamic doctrine...especially since most Westerners are quite ignorant of anything that is from outside their cultural frame of reference. The God of the Jews, Muslim, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and etc. is the same God...though each group has a different understanding of said God. I might make an attempt to delieate what us Muslims ACTUALLY believe concerning God, as so many of the crituques made against Islam by atheists and agnostics and such like yourself, in reality, apply to Christianity and Judaism's understanding of God, morality, etc. as opposed to Islam.

I know that it's the same God. However the three religions are all quite different in their similarities so I do make a distinction when I'm talking about them. It's more of an attempt to reduce the amount of hate directed at me for my misinterpretation of one person's specific religion. I am not a theologian and frankly I don't want to be, I'm just interested in how Religion affects myself and society as a whole.

I'd be interested in hearing about how Islam is different from Christianity and Judaism. How does it differentiate? How does God play a role in Islam that is different from (his) role in Christianity and Judaism? I know about the Prohpet Muhammad but how is he different from Jesus, and other bearers of the word of God?

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Oaky, forgot that you'd mentioned your understanding that the gods of the different faiths were/are the same...was going to edit that out of my post, but whatever.

On to the topic at hand. I could more properly answer and specifically answer your inquiry if you posted a few specific questions, say relating to the Problem of Evil, as viewed in Islam or so such topic. I do have at hand, a copy of a basic work of theology in Islam, the Aqidah at-Tahawiyyah. So, perhaps I'll consult it, if my knowledge of some area is a bit weak...

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 I refer to the Catholic God as the God of Abraham and Joseph.

 

Okay, thanks for clarifying :)-

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 I refer to the Catholic God as the God of Abraham and Joseph.

 

Got it. I was confused by the term "Catholic God". I figured you meant, "the God who started the Catholic Church", since that's what would differentiate "the Catholic God" from just "the Christian God".

 

xxx

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Got it. I was confused by the term "Catholic God". I figured you meant, "the God who started the Catholic Church", since that's what would differentiate "the Catholic God" from just "the Christian God".

 

xxx

The god that is worshipped by Catholic's is the same is it not?

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The god that is worshipped by Catholic's is the same is it not?

Yes!

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Ah...I was trying to remember why I'd assumed you meant the Catholic Church rather than the "Catholic God", because I was thinking to myself after my last post, "He specified Catholic God, so I talked about Catholicism, but actually, I can't remember why I started talking about the Church in particular". It's just dawned on me when I read back exactly what you'd said: You said that the Catholic God "contradicts itself" rather than "himself", so I think I just saw that and assumed you must have meant the Church, since that's an 'it'...

 

Anyway, never mind, that's not important. Just saying...

 

xxx

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Ah...I was trying to remember why I'd assumed you meant the Catholic Church rather than the "Catholic God", because I was thinking to myself after my last post, "He specified Catholic God, so I talked about Catholicism, but actually, I can't remember why I started talking about the Church in particular". It's just dawned on me when I read back exactly what you'd said: You said that the Catholic God "contradicts itself" rather than "himself", so I think I just saw that and assumed you must have meant the Church, since that's an 'it'...

 

Anyway, never mind, that's not important. Just saying...

 

xxx

I always make sure to use itself when referring to Gods unless the sex is known as in the case of the Ancient Greeks. I know most Christian religions use Him as their moniker for the Lord however I was always taught that God's sex is not known, only that Adam was created in his image.

@Altan: I would love to hear about Islam. Would you mind making a post about it? Or even starting your own thread as Jegsy has for Catholicism? I find Islam to be a very misunderstood and controversial religion so the views of a Muslim, especially a convert like yourself who knows more about the religion itself would be great.

Religion is one of the greatest conflict starters and uniting forces in Human existence. It's not my intention to make fun of anyone's one religion, I just find it incomprehensible and I struggle to learn about the faith others have.

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I always make sure to use itself when referring to Gods unless the sex is known as in the case of the Ancient Greeks. I know most Christian religions use Him as their moniker for the Lord however I was always taught that God's sex is not known, only that Adam was created in his image.

 

I understand. It's true: in Christianity, the only member of the Trinity who has gender is God the Son. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are pure spirit, with no physical bodies, so They are neither male nor female. God the Son is the exception because, at the Incarnation, He became man. He took on a human nature and a human body, and therefore became male. So God the Son is the only one who is actually male.

 

However, we do refer to the other two Persons using masculine terms, even though They are technically genderless. God the Father (obviously) asked us to refer to Him as "Father", therefore, it makes sense to refer to Him as...well, "Him". 

 

God the Holy Spirit is also referred to using masculine terms. Technically, I don't think the Bible actually refers to the Holy Spirit anywhere using masculine pronouns (although I may be wrong), but it really makes sense to when you realise that one of the most important roles the Holy Spirit plays in the Bible is at the Incarnation, where the Virgin Mary conceives Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. With that in mind, it's pretty inappropriate to refer to Him as "She"! Hence, masculine terms for Him too.

 

(Yeah, I know you didn't ask me to explain any of that, but I figured I might as well...)

 

xxx

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