WakeUp&BeAwesome

WTM because of guilt and shame

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This is something I thought about a lot lately. I read or hear many stories of former waiters who regret their waiting  and it didn´t work out for them so that they eventually got divorced.... I know that negative examples will always exist and it shouldn´t discourage us.

Some of these former waiters say that your brain had to say consistently "No" all the time regarding some physical stuff with their partner and then when you get married and are "allowed" to go all the way all of a sudden, the waiters have trouble to overcome those mental barriers and have a hard time to go from the "No, it´s bad"-state of mind to the "Yeah, let´s do it. It´s awesome"-state of mind.

 

I can understand where they are coming from and get their point, but I never thought much about it.

It was just that I came across one of these stories again and it made me think about it. I never saw sex as something bad or evil and I don´t think that I have some unrealistic notions of it. I recognize that it can be sort of animalistic and dirty at times and not always lovey-dovey and being on cloud nine-like. The former WTM-girl that was on the Huffington-Post-Talk with Mike, for example (maybe you have seen it) was in shock that it was that way because she grew up with a totally false and uninformed notion of sex and having sex. She got divorced and nowadays she would recommend not to wait for several reasons.

 

I think it´s really unhealthy and destructive when someone is growing up and is being told that sex is bad, naughty or forbidden and something you just shouldn´t do and that´s why you should wait till marriage to engage in it. Then it is not really surprising that WTM didn´t work out for them when they had such a notion of sex all their life, I believe. It seems that it still does happen quite often. Especially in religious communities. I´m sorry for everyone who had to go through something like that (divorce etc.), but I think it´s not surprising that they had to and that WTM didn´t work out for them...

For example this case.... http://www.yesandyes.org/2012/12/true-story-i-waited-till-marriage-to.html

 

I just can´t identify in the slightest bit with this sort of waiting (waiting because of guilt, shame, negative attitude towards sex etc...). I realize that it isn´t always waiting = waiting.

I think that most of us waiters would be happy to be with another waiter. But I guess, that I could never be in a relationship with a waiter whose desire to wait till marriage is fueled partly by guilt, shame, thinking that sex is bad etc.).

I think in the end it all comes down to the way you approach WTM and what your view on sex is in general. I never saw sex as something bad. It never crossed my mind that it is something forbidden, wrong, shameful and something that you shouldn´t do.

 

So what about you?

 

If you think about it, does your desire to wait until marriage has something to do with guilt or shame? Maybe a tiny tiny little bit?

Are you ashamed because of your sexual desire? Do you feel guilty having sexual thoughts sometimes?

Growing up, were you raised to have a particular notion or attitude towards sex?

Do you think that WTM turns sex into something bad, forbidden and naughty in your head (maybe even unconsiously), because you have to say "No" and draw lines when you get physical with your partner or when you are doing something that could lead up to sex with him/her?

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I decided to WTM because I felt/feel it's something so special that it only deserves my utmost commitment to someone first before having any. So in that way I can avoid any guilt or shame.

I've learned that it's normal to have sexual desire. It's what we do with that desire that determines if we ruin it's true meaning or not, depending on the context in which we have it (sex). So I would only be guilty if I acted on all those thoughts. By Waiting, I have no right to be even a hint of guilty or shameful, cuz quite frankly it shows self-control. To me self-control is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

By WTM, I believe you EARN and deserve to be physically intimate with one person. Like,  you sacrificed temporary physical satisfation, you thought about your future spouse and their wants/desires/dreams before and above your own. And WTM doesn't turn sex into something bad, it turns it into the most amazing act of showing love towards your spouse ever. In fact, I believe it makes it everything it's supposed to be. I will say that yes, I believe it's bad for me now cuz i'm not married. But to those who are married, I don't believe it is bad. Cuz I believe it's God's gift to those who are married. So if you're not married, you don't get this gift. Simple as that.

 

So WTM doesn't turn any of that into something bad... it's just if you do it outside the context of marriage, then I believe it's bad. How you treat the act and when you do it, that's what can make it naughty or the most amazing act of love you can show.

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Also, wanna make it clear, I don't agree that you should raise kids to think that sex is bad. Cuz it's not. In fact, God loves it!!

I think people need to focus more on teaching them in what context it's bad. Just doing it out of physical lust/desire is wrong, but doing it cuz you love someone and wanna show them that you love them more than anyone else after you''ve commited your lives to each other, that's great!! So it's not a bad thing in the right context. :)

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If you think about it, does your desire to wait until marriage has something to do with guilt or shame? Maybe a tiny tiny little bit? ill be honest, yes a tiny little bit it does

Are you ashamed because of your sexual desire? yes, i suppose so, but not because i have the desire to have sex in my future, because sometimes i have the desire to have sex now

Do you feel guilty having sexual thoughts sometimes? sometimes yes i suppose, but at other times i just laugh it of, thinking im being cheeky and immature

Growing up, were you raised to have a particular notion or attitude towards sex? my mum is very try before you buy sort of person and disagrees with wtm, she has offered to buy me condoms, yeh wtm was defiantly my decision

Do you think that WTM turns sex into something bad, forbidden and naughty in your head (maybe even unconsiously), because you have to say "No" and draw lines when you get physical with your partner or when you are doing something that could lead up to sex with him/her? no i believe it reminds me sex is love and it should only be with true love and the one you truly love. i don't know if having to say no to my boyfriend makes me think sex is wrong unconsciously, i don't think it does consciously.

Edited by head girl
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I decided to WTM because I felt/feel it's something so special that it only deserves my utmost commitment to someone first before having any. So in that way I can avoid any guilt or shame.

I've learned that it's normal to have sexual desire. It's what we do with that desire that determines if we ruin it's true meaning or not, depending on the context in which we have it (sex). So I would only be guilty if I acted on all those thoughts. By Waiting, I have no right to be even a hint of guilty or shameful, cuz quite frankly it shows self-control. To me self-control is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

By WTM, I believe you EARN and deserve to be physically intimate with one person. Like,  you sacrificed temporary physical satisfation, you thought about your future spouse and their wants/desires/dreams before and above your own. And WTM doesn't turn sex into something bad, it turns it into the most amazing act of showing love towards your spouse ever. In fact, I believe it makes it everything it's supposed to be. I will say that yes, I believe it's bad for me now cuz i'm not married. But to those who are married, I don't believe it is bad. Cuz I believe it's God's gift to those who are married. So if you're not married, you don't get this gift. Simple as that.

 

So WTM doesn't turn any of that into something bad... it's just if you do it outside the context of marriage, then I believe it's bad. How you treat the act and when you do it, that's what can make it naughty or the most amazing act of love you can show.

Also, wanna make it clear, I don't agree that you should raise kids to think that sex is bad. Cuz it's not. In fact, God loves it!!

I think people need to focus more on teaching them in what context it's bad. Just doing it out of physical lust/desire is wrong, but doing it cuz you love someone and wanna show them that you love them more than anyone else after you''ve commited your lives to each other, that's great!! So it's not a bad thing in the right context. :)

kendra that is written so beautifully, i completely agree, and i think god would be so proud to have a daughter like you :)
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I was never taught that sex was naughty, evil, or disgusting. My dad (the one who talked me about wtm, relationships, and women) told me that sex is a beautiful, amazing gift that one should only give to their spouse. Him and my mom (despite the various issues they've had in their marriage...but what couple doesn't have issues in their relationship?) both wtm (in sum total...meaning starting from birth up until their wedding night) and have stayed married for over 30 years...which is quite the accomplishment, given the times we live in and the fact that they (especially my mom) grew up during the days of the 60's and 70's counterculture. Ultimately, any issues I might, as a person, have with sex, to be honest, have more to due with being emotionally hurt in the past (by girls I liked) than sayin "No" to my desires. If anything, saying "No" made me think about my reasons for wtm even more...and reminded me of the positive attitude I was taught and eventually made my own, back when I was first tested as to my beliefs on the matter. BTW, in some cultures, this disdain for heterosexual intercourse and marriage (even though said things, within marriage, are sanctioned and in fact encouraged by various religions, etc.) is probably one of the things that has led to the rise of homosexual conduct in said societies (think Saudi Arabia and/or Iran). Repression is never a good thing and in all honesty, us wtm folks should be the ones with the most positive attitude towards sex, tempered only by our understanding of the negative possibilities it holds, if it's not treated properly. Just my two cents...

See ya on the flipside,

Altan

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I will say that yes, I believe it's bad for me now cuz i'm not married. But to those who are married, I don't believe it is bad. Cuz I believe it's God's gift to those who are married. So if you're not married, you don't get this gift. Simple as that.

 

These are exactly my thoughts on the matter :)! I feel bad for people who were raised to believe that sex is dirty and bad, but I don't think that having sex before marriage would help them. They just need a different mindset towards sex.

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Guilt motivates me in the sense that I would not want to disappoint myself or my future wife by performing sexual activities with a woman before marriage, but I don't think sex in and of itself is wrong in any way. I just think my marriage and sex life will be much better and more special if and my wife and I are each others only partners.

 

I think Christianity (well, at least some Christians) used to teach that sex was always at least somewhat sinful, but I don't think most of modern Christianity or many modern Christians teach that sex within marriage is wrong.

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kendra that is written so beautifully, i completely agree, and i think god would be so proud to have a daughter like you :)

Awwww!! That's so sweet of you to say! :)

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If you think about it, does your desire to wait until marriage have something to do with guilt or shame? Maybe a tiny tiny little bit?

 

Nope, I can honestly say that guilt or shame have absolutely nothing to do with my desire to wait until marriage. Not one bit. I wait because I only want to share that experience with one man. I know waiting will make my life more enjoyable. I am not interested in quick thrills, I want the pleasant long road. I also have an odd sense of time, I think if we experience something even for a short time it can last forever, and so I'd prefer waiting until I found The One, even if it takes 100 years, than spend my time with multiple people throughout my life. Because those memories would not be the ones I want for my life. If that makes any sense.

 

 

Are you ashamed because of your sexual desire? Do you feel guilty having sexual thoughts sometimes?

 

Gosh no, haha. I think sexual desire is very natural and if I have a sexual thought there is what I consider a pure feeling of love that is felt along with it, side by side. They balance perfectly.

 

 

Growing up, were you raised to have a particular notion or attitude towards sex?

 

My parents didn't really have sex talks with me. When I went to Catholic school, they taught abstinence and I agreed with them. What I saw around me was casual sex and it bothered me. It just didn't feel right. It's something that is hard to explain for me, because it's always been more of a feeling, than a list of reasons.

 

 

Do you think that WTM turns sex into something bad, forbidden and naughty in your head (maybe even unconsiously), because you have to say "No" and draw lines when you get physical with your partner or when you are doing something that could lead up to sex with him/her?

 

I think depending upon the mindset of the "waiter" it can be viewed that way. But everyone is different and perceives things differently. For me, I don't consider it naughty or forbidden, because it's not this big forbidden signpost or something looming in front of me. The lines I have were drawn by my own hand and they are there because that is where I am comfortable having them. WTM was not forced upon me, nor was I cajoled into it by a partner who wanted to wait... it's simply a path I chose to follow all by myself, and I think it's a beautiful one.

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Thanks so much for taking the time to write all your thoughts down. It was very encouraging to read all of this and it´s great that you all have a positive view on sex. When I first started to do some "research" on waiting and other waiters, I almost always found

those terrible stories and I couldn´t see myself being a waiter like that.

 

Repression is never a good thing and in all honesty, us wtm folks should be the ones with the most positive attitude towards sex, tempered only by our understanding of the negative possibilities it holds, if it's not treated properly.

Pretty much sums it up, to me. Well said, Altan.

 

 

I also have an odd sense of time, I think if we experience something even for a short time it can last forever, and so I'd prefer waiting until I found The One, even if it takes 100 years, than spend my time with multiple people throughout my life. Because those memories would not be the ones I want for my life. If that makes any sense.

 

 

 

Makes totally sense! Although I hope it won´t take 100 years ;)

 

 

 

What I saw around me was casual sex and it bothered me. It just didn't feel right. It's something that is hard to explain for me, because it's always been more of a feeling, than a list of reasons.

 

Same here.

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BTW, in some cultures, this disdain for heterosexual intercourse and marriage (even though said things, within marriage, are sanctioned and in fact encouraged by various religions, etc.) is probably one of the things that has led to the rise of homosexual conduct in said societies (think Saudi Arabia and/or Iran).

 

I don´t know, if I got that right. Do you mean, there are more homosexuals because of a disdain for heterosexual intercourse and marriage in some cultures? Why is there a disdain?

And what things, within marriage, are sanctioned?

It would be great, if you could elaborate a little bit more. I don´t really know what you mean.

Sorry :unsure:

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I think waiters whose marriage(s) fail fail for two reasons: they either waited for the wrong reasons, or they didn't give it their all. Abstinence is putting all your eggs in one basket; if you aren't prepared to give it your all, you're a fool.

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I think waiters whose marriage(s) fail fail for two reasons: they either waited for the wrong reasons, or they didn't give it their all. Abstinence is putting all your eggs in one basket; if you aren't prepared to give it your all, you're a fool.

 

Maybe there can be several other reasons for failing, as well, but in general, I think, I agree with you!

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I think waiters whose marriage(s) fail fail for two reasons: they either waited for the wrong reasons, or they didn't give it their all. Abstinence is putting all your eggs in one basket; if you aren't prepared to give it your all, you're a fool.

Well many times even if two people give it their all, and did everything they could to save their marriage, their marriage fails. Two people after so many years can drift apart and just no longer get along living under the same roof.

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Well many times even if two people give it their all, and did everything they could to save their marriage, their marriage fails. Two people after so many years can drift apart and just no longer get along living under the same roof.

 

Sure. This happens. I saw a lot of marriages fail and drifting apart after decades of existing.

But I think, what TheJayspyder meant was, if the failing results from WTM, those could be the reasons why the marriage might have failed.

Waiting for the wrong reasons (like shame or guilt for example) and/or not trying to make their sex life enjoyable for both and not giving their all in regard to their sex life.

I am sure there can be more reasons why a marriage can fail because of WTM, but these two were also the ones which came to my head first of all, as well.

I might be wrong in my understanding of what TheJayspyder said (please correct me, TheJayspyder, if that´s the case). That´s only how I understood his statement.

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Sure. This happens. I saw a lot of marriages fail and drifting apart after decades of existing.

But I think, what TheJayspyder meant was, if the failing results from WTM, those could be the reasons why the marriage might have failed.

Waiting for the wrong reasons (like shame or guilt for example) and/or not trying to make their sex life enjoyable for both and not giving their all in regard to their sex life.

I am sure there can be more reasons why a marriage can fail because of WTM, but these two were also the ones which came to my head first of all, as well.

I might be wrong in my understanding of what TheJayspyder said (please correct me, TheJayspyder, if that´s the case). That´s only how I understood his statement.

 

You are spot on.

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Well many times even if two people give it their all, and did everything they could to save their marriage, their marriage fails. Two people after so many years can drift apart and just no longer get along living under the same roof.

 

Uh, if they "drift apart" they aren't even trying, let alone giving it everything they have.

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Uh, if they "drift apart" they aren't even trying, let alone giving it everything they have.

People drift apart, they often do, they just change and don't get along anymore, you shouldn't have to force a relationship to make it work.

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Not being a part of religious waiters I often feel like I don't really know what that particular guilt feels like but I think to a certain extent we all feel it at one point. My mum was very open with me about sex and while she didn't raise me in a certain faith I was taught that my body was a temple and you only had sex with people you loved. 

 

Do you think that WTM turns sex into something bad, forbidden and naughty in your head (maybe even unconsiously), because you have to say "No" and draw lines when you get physical with your partner or when you are doing something that could lead up to sex with him/her?

 

On one side yes, I do feel that subconsciously people (myself included) can focus on the "no" part of the wtm commitment and they avoid the subject altogether in conversation and in actions. Obviously, it's going to be easier if you don't put yourself in situations where something could lead to sex- but I would hope people don't stop living their lives because they're so set in a frame of constant guilt and shame because their body feels a certain way.

Personally, I think if you're close enough with yourself and your ideas about sex, even in the wtm mindset, you should be able to recognize that sex is natural and healthy.

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People drift apart, they often do, they just change and don't get along anymore, you shouldn't have to force a relationship to make it work.

Hmm interesting one and yes your quite right. Just out of interest here,s a twist though !! Interested in opinions. Children are involved.

Ok couple meet, get on great. Both have had sexual relationships before meeting, they have children all happy. Then one realises that their earlier life style was wrong and regret it. They toil over the guilt but with the help of their faith and their deep regret feel they can forgive themselves and feel as they could be forgiven. However their partner is the opposite, they think their younger promiscuity is fine, character building,they even seem proud of their conquests. It's not fair for the children to suffer due to the parents current differences on the subject so the marriage is forced into working. Happens !! What's the best tact? Avoid the subject and thoughts/discussions on it ? Accept their opinions/ways or see the relationship through until the children leave home ? and then walk. I couldnt answer this one easily !

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