Sophie

3 States have legalized gay marriage by popular vote and Minnesota refuses to ban it from their State

131 posts in this topic

Well I'm excited about it. I think it's a major step forward for the gay community and for the country as a whole. I know that many religions forbid homosexual relations; however I don't see how that should forbid anyone who doesn't follow your religion to do as they please.

As for churches, I don't think they should be forced to do anything with regard to recognizing the union; however, I believe that gay couples should have full access to the same legal recognition/benegits as straight couples do.

Great to have another supporter. :) I think it'll take a while, but I am optimistic that gay marriage will eventually be legal everywhere in America.

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Interesting to see so many people discussing my marriage here. :) My husband and I have been married for 2.5 years now. I am Canadian and my husband is American. We got legally married in Canada but we had our big church wedding in Maryland. It's cool to think that now that Maryland has same-sex marriage that our church wedding could have actually been our legal wedding as well.

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Yeah, I'm a Christian lesbian who believes homosexuality is not a sin, personally.

So, I'm happy that gay marriage is doing well. I believe gay and straight relationships are equal. I believe that God blesses any relationship and marriage between two people who love each other.

I know of tons of gay affirming churches. But, if people want to believe that homosexuality is a sin; I respect their right to have their opinions/beliefs. That's why I believe in freedom of religion. :)

I don't think churches who don't want to conduct gay marriages should have too. Honestly, there's plenty of gay friendly churches who are happy to conduct same sex marriages in their churches. So, I definitely believe in freedom of religious expression.

So, I'm for gay rights and gay marriage.

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“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. (Leviticus 18:22 NIV)

“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:13 NIV)

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28 KJV)

They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Romans 1:25-27 NIV)

I believe God clearly stated and distinguished right from wrong in every area and on this topic, the above verses verifies/proves that. God isn't and has never been unsure of Himself and He gave us His specific request on how we should live..follow it or not-He gave us a choice to comply or not but things become out of order when they are not in His will and we see that everyday in life.

Also I'll say in reference to my opinion on homosexuality "Don't hate the player, hate the game" God tells us to love everyone and I strongly believe to do so but I won't shun what He says is right and wrong while doing so.

(not meant to hurt feelings but I can get what I feel out as well as anyone else does)

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I am in full support of gay marriage and equal rights across the board. It's my hope that it becomes legal nationwide at some point in the near future. :)

 

Some food for thought, if anyone's interested:

 

 

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I am also in full support of gay marriage, I believe using religon to justify whether you believe it should be legal or not, is not a valid argument. Religion is not involved in modern law making and cannot be used to justify something, making modern law with a few thousand year old book doesn't seem to apply very well anymore, and doesn't the bible also say you can't wear clothing sewn of more than one material?

It shocks me that in this day and age we still deny people basic freedoms and liberties. This country (The US) was founded on the belief that ALL men were created equal and deserve the same opportunities.

To those who say gay marriage ruins the sanctity of "normal marriage", does it ruin it the same way interracial marriage "ruined" it back in the 50's?

I also refuse to get married until gay marriage is legal everywhere in the US.

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I'm kind of neutral about it. For a while it was hard for me to be supportive while still maintaining my convictions and I guess it occurred to me that I don't really hate gays as much as that I don't really like the gay community as I find it a bit counterproductive as being a group, it usually means it dictates some kind of conformity and how one should behave. I don't care how hateful that person is toward you, you should not be hateful back since that person will not change, you got to kill him/her with kindness and doing so might change their opinion on homosexuality. Also, prancing around in parades sporting bondage gear will probably not get you accepted by the people that you want to be accepted by. 

 

They should also not make their sexual orientation completely define them. That's the thing, a lot of them do when they are way more than that and they are just someone that happens to be gay. I really disagree with people labeling themselves. 

 

I mean, I have seen a gay man on one of those LGBT forums who was Catholic and said that he was going to wait until marriage, even if it wasn't yet legal in his state or else move to a state or country that was, especially if his future husband lived there.

 

Man, that guy got shot down and was accused of being a traitor, especially when he still considered himself Catholic and knew that  his marriage would never be recognized by the church (but his argument was that it kind of freed him up a bit to make his ceremony more unique since he could have it wherever he wants instead of having to have it in a church). They just attacked that poor guy like a bunch of wild animals and I felt sort of bad. Since all of you are waiting until marriage you would probably understand this. I found it quite cruel. 

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“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. (Leviticus 18:22 NIV)

“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:13 NIV)

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28 KJV)

They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Romans 1:25-27 NIV)

I believe God clearly stated and distinguished right from wrong in every area and on this topic, the above verses verifies/proves that. God isn't and has never been unsure of Himself and He gave us His specific request on how we should live..follow it or not-He gave us a choice to comply or not but things become out of order when they are not in His will and we see that everyday in life.

Also I'll say in reference to my opinion on homosexuality "Don't hate the player, hate the game" God tells us to love everyone and I strongly believe to do so but I won't shun what He says is right and wrong while doing so.

(not meant to hurt feelings but I can get what I feel out as well as anyone else does)

" I do not permit a woman to teach or assert authority over a man, she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.  And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." 1 Timothy 2:12-15

 

You can believe whatever you want about same-sex marriage but it is not your place as a woman to try and teach us men what to think.  The Bible is clear that you should be quiet and get on with having babies as that is your role.  :)

 

Of course, I'm being sarcastic here and I'm not trying to hurt people's feelings but I couldn't help but point out the irony here. So many Christians love to string a few Bible quotes together and declare the case closed.  We understand that so many other verses in the Bible have a context that needs to be considered so maybe these do too?

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First off..using that verse to say i cant have a part in this argument/debate is twisting the scripture. You are abusing Gods word by doing so and maybe thats how you did to the verses in the first post here in which God clearly rules out Homosexuality.

Now

That verse is in reference to a marriage between Man and Wife.. .if you want to simplify does that mean women should do childbearing out of wedlock also..and we should not vote either or have any abilities above a man's? That statement means that a man is the head of the household which is completely true but it does not mean women dont get a say in things or are inferior to man. Also this verse doesnt state that i cant tell you the truth about your lifestyle...Christain to Christain.

God put it out plain and simply @shaneb So tell me do you believe everything in the Bible Except for this. Not to be rude but God called it an abomination not me and I follow Him and believe in his judgement not mans. No man on earth is more intelligent, powerful, or anything as compared to God so why would I side with him over God?

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And out come the claims of twisting scripture....  egirly, I'm not going to get into a debate with you because I know it won't go anywhere.  There are many verses about women that I'm sure you don't take literally.  I'm sure you don't think there is anything wrong with fancy hairstyles or wearing jewelry or expensive clothes.  (1 Tim 2:9)  I'm sure you pray with your head uncovered and break the literal reading of 1 Corinthians 11.  I'm very sure that you break a whole lot of the laws laid out in Leviticus, but yet you conveniently throw a couple verses from Leviticus at me.

 

My point is that the Bible needs to be studied and interpreted carefully.  I believe strongly in the Bible and it shapes the way that I live.  My commitment to WTM is mostly based on my understanding of Scripture. 

 

Coming to terms with my sexuality was not an easy process.  I did a lot of studying, reading, praying, agonising.  But in the end after my study I came to the conclusion that God does indeed bless a relationship between two people of the same sex.   I have seen that confirmed now in my lived out experience in my marriage to my husband.

 

In the same way that I have learned lots from female leaders and teachers and have seen God work powerfully through them, I have experienced God and his awesome love in my relationship.  Sometimes the Bible is more than just a surface reading. 

 

I know I'm not going to change your mind because you'll never change the mind of someone who just quotes a few verses and is done.  But I hope that one day you will actually sit down and think and study the verses you quoted and maybe God will show you a new way to understand them. 

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He does not bless a same-sex relationship plain and simple. He said homosexuality is an abomination. Just because you want to continue in that lifestyle doesn't suddenly make it right. You are sinning...the end. We all sin but to say God is perfectly fine with that and to Speak against Him in that way is blaspheming. You are not only doing that but you are also hurting Him especially by defiling the constitution of marriage. It is said to be between a man and wife and that hasn't changed. Yes you are able to do so by mans law but that does not exclude Gods law at all.

And yeh the Bible is more than the surface reading but ignoring what is plain and simply said ,constantly, is just wrong. Better yet Changing Gods word..like I said before it's Blasphemy to use your words and opinions and say its God..quote me a scripture where God says its Ok and He'll bless whatever you choose.

Don't know if you know by the way but the verses surrounding the verses I quoted in Leviticus also explain how adultery,incest,etc is wrong. Shall we deem that correct to? If you wanted to have sex with an animal and marry it and do that everyday would God bless that relationship too? Just saying but maybe you should look at AND within the verses and if you can't rule everything else out..then why just this one thing.

I hope one day you choose Gods will over your own desires and see AND call out your sin instead of making it so that it seems what you are doing is something God admires and believes in. You can live your homosexual lifestyle by choice yes but it doesn't make it right in Gods eyes.

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Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Clearly states that if you are not a virgin on your wedding night you are to be stoned to death. Now if that were followed I would imagine the amount of Christians in the world would shrink by a significant number.

I could also talk about how Paul talked to the Romans about how those who follow different religions will be judged according to the laws of their own religion, NOT by Christians, but people like you will blatantly ignore it.

 

So I am going to say cut down on your judgement. The only being who has the right to judge someone on their path to God is God himself. You do not have that right, nor does anyone else. You are not God. Get off your high horse.

 

I love it how the new Pope even said don't be surprised to see Atheists in heaven. Meaning, what matters most is being a good human being. A hardcore Atheist who is the kindest, most generous soul, will for sure get into heaven over someone who is greedy and cruel but believes in Jesus.

 

Also man wrote the Bible, men who while divinely touched, are still men, as such it will be subject to the flaws of man.

 

That's all I will say on the matter, but I don't like the fact you are using the excuse "The Bible called it an abonimation, so it's ok for me to call it that as well."

 

Everyone else has stated their opinion on the matter, that's fine, but that doesn't mean you go out of your way to attack a someone's way of life, that's uncalled for.

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Sorry you feel that way...but me talking about God isn't me calling myself Him I -know- I won't ever be as God but I will try my best to represent Him just like you and everyone else will represent what you believe.

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I just don't understand why you use the bible in defense as saying homosexuality is wrong and gay marriage is wrong, yet you continue to wear clothing sewn of more than one material when the bible says you shouldn't, if you were truly following as you say then you would also be trying to enforce a death penalty for homosexuality.

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Right, I've answered this thread already, so I'm just going to post these here, in response to the claims that "Christians used to support same sex marriage" and "If you believe sex between two men or women is a sin, then you must also believe that everything else the Old Testament said was wrong (e.g. wearing clothes made of two different materials) is also a sin".

 

 

 

And, like I said, I've answered this already, so unless anyone else asks me something, or whatever, then I think that's the last I'll say here.

 

xxx

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Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Clearly states that if you are not a virgin on your wedding night you are to be stoned to death. Now if that were followed I would imagine the amount of Christians in the world would shrink by a significant number.

I could also talk about how Paul talked to the Romans about how those who follow different religions will be judged according to the laws of their own religion, NOT by Christians, but people like you will blatantly ignore it.

 

So I am going to say cut down on your judgement. The only being who has the right to judge someone on their path to God is God himself. You do not have that right, nor does anyone else. You are not God. Get off your high horse.

 

I love it how the new Pope even said don't be surprised to see Atheists in heaven. Meaning, what matters most is being a good human being. A hardcore Atheist who is the kindest, most generous soul, will for sure get into heaven over someone who is greedy and cruel but believes in Jesus.

 

Also man wrote the Bible, men who while divinely touched, are still men, as such it will be subject to the flaws of man.

 

That's all I will say on the matter, but I don't like the fact you are using the excuse "The Bible called it an abonimation, so it's ok for me to call it that as well."

 

Everyone else has stated their opinion on the matter, that's fine, but that doesn't mean you go out of your way to attack a someone's way of life, that's uncalled for.

 

 

 

She's not judging. She is basically supporting her beliefs from Biblical passages. They are verses in the Bible, we can't negate it. It's like The 5th Amendment, if someone states it and is offended by it, it doesn't change the fact that it's still a principle.

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This was an interesting topic.

 

The Bible has very strict standards and we all have our shortcomings but through intercession and sanctification God cleanses our Spirit daily and give us the tools to follow Him correctly and when we fall into sin, whether it be adorning ourselves or being promiscuous, satisfying our fleshy desires, being competive, hateful,etc. etc. and seek correction to live uprightly  then can we truly call ourselves Christians. Yes, we all sin, that's right, even as Christians but we also are given a conscience that tells us that we're being mislead so our hearts are filled with the fruits of the Spirit and we are not serving Him as the Pharisees did.

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@Mstr Josh God is the one who will do the punishing not me. He will do what He needs to do whenever He wants to do it. I -am- truely following and He told us to let Him fight our battles and He is the ultimate judge. Also, not everything God said back then applies to now for example..certain people couldn't cut their hair or eat grapes or eat meat even, but God personally told people those things also. And living a lifestyle doesn't compare to wearing knitted clothing even if that was truely a sin which it is not.

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Okay then, if gods word is so mighty, why do people now decide what's important to follow? How do you know not wearing clothing of more than one material was not more important to him than gay marriage? How does using a few thousand year old book justify how current laws are made in a country where religion is not involved in law making?

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I also refuse to get married until gay marriage is legal everywhere in the US.

I get your reasoning for doing so, but I think that may be a poor choice. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court deems forbidding gay marriage unconstitutional, it could be 50-60 years before every state votes to legalize it. I would bet it's not many more years until states in the northeast and states along the west coast legalize it, but I wouldn't be shocked if it took, say, Alabama, 50 to 60 more years. Considering you're waiting until marriage, I think delaying marriage like that might be problematic for you. Not just because you might really want it, but just because it would be hard to find a woman who would be okay being in a sexless relationship for that many years.

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I get your reasoning for doing so, but I think that may be a poor choice. Unless the U.S. Supreme Court deems forbidding gay marriage unconstitutional, it could be 50-60 years before every state votes to legalize it. I would bet it's not many more years until states in the northeast and states along the west coast legalize it, but I wouldn't be shocked if it took, say, Alabama, 50 to 60 more years. Considering you're waiting until marriage, I think delaying marriage like that might be problematic for you. Not just because you might really want it, but just because it would be hard to find a woman who would be okay being in a sexless relationship for that many years.

That's if I decide to be in a relationship, I don't plan on meeting anyone or finding someone that would be willing to marry me, but if I do and I decide to be with them then I would abandon my waiting until marriage ideals because I just could not get married while others are prevented from doing so by law, I would feel absolutely horrible.

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@Mstr Josh God is the one who will do the punishing not me. He will do what He needs to do whenever He wants to do it. I -am- truely following and He told us to let Him fight our battles and He is the ultimate judge. Also, not everything God said back then applies to now for example..certain people couldn't cut their hair or eat grapes or eat meat even, but God personally told people those things also. And living a lifestyle doesn't compare to wearing knitted clothing even if that was truely a sin which it is not.

Again, you are nitpicking Bible verses. How do you personally know that those specific things do not apply now, but homosexuality does?

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Again, you are nitpicking Bible verses. How do you personally know that those specific things do not apply now, but homosexuality does?

 

(Yeah, I lied: I'm replying to the thread again...)

 

One thing to remember is that in the Bible, there is a distinction between the Old and New Testament. The Old Testament recounts the covenant between God and humanity before Christ came, and the New Testament is about the new covenant, which is an improvement on the old one. So when you look at those lists of rules and whatnot in the Old Testament, there'll be some things which applied only to the old covenant, but were abolished in the new. Things like dietary requirements and any other rule pertaining to "clean" and "unclean" things no longer apply to us today (as Jesus abolished them in the New Testament). Some were cultural specific, so although the principle behind the rule still applies today, the rule itself is no longer binding in today's culture. Others, however, which were about issues of morality (banning homosexual acts, adultery, incest, bestiality, etc.) still apply today. You'll notice that homosexual acts are condemned not just in the Old Testament, but also in the New, meaning they still apply today.

 

(By the way, I'm pretty much just repeating what it says up there in the second video I posted, so give it a listen! Jimmy Akin has an epic beard...)

 

Also, if you're not a sola scriptura kind of person, the Catechism of the Catholic Church goes into these kinds of things in a lot more depth.

 

And, you know...I do have my "Ask a Catholic" thread...Just...in case anyone was interested...

 

xxx

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That's if I decide to be in a relationship, I don't plan on meeting anyone or finding someone that would be willing to marry me, but if I do and I decide to be with them then I would abandon my waiting until marriage ideals because I just could not get married while others are prevented from doing so by law, I would feel absolutely horrible.

If you decide to be single, then the problem wouldn't apply. Very, very few people stay single forever, though. In the second scenario you mentioned, do you mean like you would be in a relationship with someone that is essentially marriage, but without the piece of paper (and tax benefits, I suppose)?

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