Invincible

Chivalry: Appreciated or sexist?

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I never understood how anyone could be offended by chivalry, it just doesn't make sense to me. I love chivalry and I'm glad it still exists. 

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Yup sad really but I'm a door opener. Have been told off by feminists who do not need me to hold a door. ,!!

Ok I had held the door open for an hour............ Joking. Xx

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I read this one article where a guy said that a woman swore at him for holding a door open for her. I read that and was automatically in "WTF?" mode. A woman cussing at you for opening a door for her...hmm...I wonder who's the one with issues in that scenario. While I personally see no use for it, I do think women getting offended by chivalry is quite ludicrous indeed. 

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I think chivalry is appreciated by anybody who was taught to treat others the way they want to be treated. I always appreciate when a guy holds a door for me or something. Chivalry really is alive and thriving in the south, more so than in California. I've had guys carry my bike down stairs for me at the train station when they saw me struggling, take my backpack off my shoulders and carry it up stairs for me when I'm on crutches and offer to carry me to the bus stop when I looked like I couldn't walk two feet on my own. Every time it makes my day and restores my faith in humanity. I don't think it should be a one way street though. I am happy to hold the door for somebody else, offer my seat to an older person on a full bus, or help an overwhelmed mother carry something to the car.

 

I think it is so offensive for somebody to respond negatively to a kind gesture. Whether somebody is doing it to be nice or doing it to get something out of the exchange I don't see why it matters. I think ignoring the kind gesture is just as bad, why wouldn't you let somebody know you appreciate what they did even if all you do is say thank you to the kind stranger and keep it moving?

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 Chivalry really is alive and thriving in the south, more so than in California.

Where exactly?  I might move there!

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It depends on the intent. I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but  sometimes chivalrous actions are suspicious. Growing up I always hated the whole "ladies first" thing. Whenever boys did that it was because they didn't want to go first.

 

But generally I am appreciative of it. There's definitely not much chivalry going on where I currently live.

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Where exactly?  I might move there!

Georgia! Especially if you go more than 30 minutes outside of Atlanta. I think it has something to do with the whole idea of southern hospitality.

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I think the problem is that so many women these days (and probably back as early as the sixties as well,) are taught to be "modern women." To be self-sufficient, independent, opinionated, strong...so we are basically taught to not only reject chauvinism but to call basically anything misogyny (like if a boyfriend is healthfully protective.) I read dozens and dozens and dozens of teen novels a year and it is a total re-accuring theme:

 

Guy: "I will do anything I can to protect you."

Girl: "I don't need your protection!"

Guy: "But I love you, I just want to help keep you safe."

Girl: "Was is this, the middle ages? I can take care of myself!"

 

One character, Maya Delaney, even told her brother to "go back to the nineteenth century where you belong," or something to that affect, when he said that he hoped Daniel would keep her safe from the bad guys.

 

When in a relationship, YOU PROTECT EACH OTHER. Same with siblings, friends, family...but in teen novels (and I'm sure in adult novels as well,) girls frequently reject the protection of their boyfriend/brother/male cousin because they think it's old-fashioned or whatever.

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One character, Maya Delaney, even told her brother to "go back to the nineteenth century where you belong," or something to that affect, when he said that he hoped Daniel would keep her safe from the bad guys.

I was raised in an anti-feminism household, and women were subtly disempowered.  I believe women should own their power, and while women and men are equal they are still very very different.  I would love to be protected by my boyfriend.  I enjoy feeling safe when I am with my man. The key is to not wait around to be rescued when we are capable of rescuing ourselves.

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I was raised in an anti-feminism household, and women were subtly disempowered.  I believe women should own their power, and while women and men are equal they are still very very different.  I would love to be protected by my boyfriend.  I enjoy feeling safe when I am with my man. The key is to not wait around to be rescued when we are capable of rescuing ourselves.

 

You have to read the book to understand why Maya was being unfair. Long story short, dozens of bad guys want her and her friends because they are successful experiments for psychic powers. Maya, like a lot of girls in teen novels, completely reject the notion of needing male protection. Yet they never care if a female friend, or sister insists on helping them and keeping them safe. Now obviously they are mostly entirely fictional situations with psychic powers/werewolves/vampires/witches/aliens, etc, but no one, male or female, can stand alone against evil or corruption. Getting help is always a blessing. But for some reason, it is seen as bad/old-fashioned/anti-feminist when a guy helps a girl. So are girls capable of rescuing themselves? It depends on the situation. All I know is, if a girl is in a situation where self-rescue is not an option, who cares what gender rescues her? And it doesn't make her weak or fragile to admit she needs help.

 

So I do think chivalry is now, unfortunately, considered sexist (in western societies.) Cuz people are starting to lump chivalry and misogyny in together. But they couldn't be more different.

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Acts of chivalry prove that there is still faith in mankind. I believe that women so sincerely appreciate it when it is genuine (which it nearly always it) but I can understand how they may see it is proving they are inferior. They want their guy to know they can manage in the world themselves, but the act of kindness is appreciated.

And it doesn't have to be an extreme act of chivalry, for example, with my last girlfriend, if it was cold out, I would go start the car, and then bring it to the door so she did not have to be cold. Simple, effective, appreciated.

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I think in many cases chivalry is genuine.  Unfortunately, I do believe that some women react negatively to chivalry for valid reasons.  It is not unusual for some men to have hidden motives and many men HAVE oppressed women (especially behind closed doors), so when a woman has lived with the effects of such experiences I can see how they would rather just be dependent on themselves.  I hope that all women will acknowledge that not all men are the same and that kindness is truly just a gift.

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It is not unusual for some men to have hidden motives...

Everyday in Math class I look forward to leaving because I try to time my exit perfectly so I get to open the door to a specific girl. Now my door opening for her is me being chivalrous and courteous, but I do have an ulterior motive I guess. I think she's pretty so I open the door for her. If I found her unattractive then I would still open the door but I wouldn't wait until she got out of her seat and was close to the door. I would just leave and if by chance she was near I'd open it. 

 

So I guess for the girl I find attractive I open the door because I'm courteous AND because I hope she notices my kind acts. Is that hidden motive a cause for concern? Is it bad? I think having hidden motives doesn't necessarily mean the guy is bad or anything.

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Everyday in Math class I look forward to leaving because I try to time my exit perfectly so I get to open the door to a specific girl. Now my door opening for her is me being chivalrous and courteous, but I do have an ulterior motive I guess. I think she's pretty so I open the door for her. If I found her unattractive then I would still open the door but I wouldn't wait until she got out of her seat and was close to the door. I would just leave and if by chance she was near I'd open it. 

 

So I guess for the girl I find attractive I open the door because I'm courteous AND because I hope she notices my kind acts. Is that hidden motive a cause for concern? Is it bad? I think having hidden motives doesn't necessarily mean the guy is bad or anything.

 

It's not bad. Trying to get laid or just wanting bragging rights for getting a pretty girl out on a date is bad cuz it can hurt her feelings. You are obviously not trying to get laid. lol.

 

And besides, when someone is romantically attracted to someone, they will do acts of kindness not for selfless reasons, but out of the hope that the person will notice them. That's very normal. You have to draw attention to yourself somehow or else the person won't notice you.

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You have to draw attention to yourself somehow or else the person won't notice you.

That is exactly what I'm trying to do. I noticed she comes later than most people to class. I decidedly have started coming a little later  lol. Nothing will probably come out of these acts of kindness as there is only about 2-3 weeks left of class.  Just opening the door for someone makes me feel good. So if I was trying to get laid I would only be happy when I got laid. I simple thank you is enough for me.

 

For this girl I try to open the door and let her walk through. It shows a noticeably increased effort than just holding the door with one hand waiting for her to grab it.

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So I guess for the girl I find attractive I open the door because I'm courteous AND because I hope she notices my kind acts. Is that hidden motive a cause for concern? Is it bad? I think having hidden motives doesn't necessarily mean the guy is bad or anything.

 

In this situation, I don't think your hidden motive says anything bad about you! You said you would open the door for her either way if she was nearby, whether attracted or not, so you sound courteous to me. You just happen to have extra motivation to be courteous in this situation! :)

 

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is now to actually SPEAK to the girl! :D As you are leaving, say something like, "Have a good one!" or "Man, I'm glad that test is over." Otherwise, she might think that you are just a well-mannered classmate who has taken no particular notice of her, not even for the purpose of friendship.

 

LOL, I know a lot about hidden motives. I found dozens of legitimate excuses in college to visit and linger in places where the guy I liked would be passing by. Once there, I would find some totally reasonable thing to be doing there: reading a book on a bench, looking at fliers on a bulletin board, checking my phone, digging for things in my backpack. All in the hopes that he would notice my presence and come to chat. We ended up dating for two years! Proximity, proximity, proximity! So yeah, I think hidden motives are not bad, provided that you are nice to people whether interested in them or not.

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I would love it if a man treated me with chivalry...I wish men treated women like that, whether or not they were dating them.   I don't want to be treated like a man.  But I have seen chivalry in action/experienced it only about four times in my entire life.   I won't demand that a man treats me like that, but I would very much like it.  I would see it as a gift, and I would treasure it.

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OK. So, I haven't read any of the responses, yet. I'd just like to say... simple answer... Totally appreciated. As a personal opinion. Maybe my answer is redundant. Considering I just asked the guys section a similar quetion, and said how I feel about it there. lol

 

I could probably elaborate... yes, I like to use a lot of words... but I am very tired. :)

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In Texas, holding the door open for everyone is standard procedure, regardless of age or gender. When I first moved to New York, I almost got my nose cut off a few times due to people unexpectedly letting the door close in my face! As for things like walking me to my car or carrying heavy things, I appreciate it because it shows care and concern. Seat-offering I think should be done more on the basis of who really needs that seat (someone elderly, pregnant, sick, etc) than based on gender.

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I find it sweet and polite. I don't mind men asking me if they can help carry whatever it is I'm carrying, but if it ain't heavy I will politely decline. As Steadfast Madcap said, door holding is kind of expected, it is just something polite.

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Seat-offering I think should be done more on the basis of who really needs that seat (someone elderly, pregnant, sick, etc) than based on gender.

 

One time in Paris, I was on the metro when a man carrying his baby got on. All the men sitting down ignored him, but a woman immediately jumped up and offered him her seat. Only then did the other men react and try to offer her their seat, but she politely turned them all down. One man refused to sit back down, so there was just an empty seat as they both stood, which I thought was a little ridiculous. The whole thing came across as a ridiculous power play at that point, when the woman was just trying to make a nice gesture to a person with a baby.

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Seat-offering I think should be done more on the basis of who really needs that seat (someone elderly, pregnant, sick, etc) than based on gender.

YES.

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I agree that something such as offering your seat, holding a door, and other such things, should not be based solely on gender. That's just common courtesy, or it should be. Quite obviously I am one of very few people who think there are some things a man might do for a woman that he may not do for a man, like opening a car door or holding his hand to help him out of the car or kissing his hand as a gentlemans hello. I'm ok with being different. Maybe even more maybe a little too old fashioned for some people's tastes. :)

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