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Chivalry: Appreciated or sexist?

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It really pains me to even bring up this topic. Generally speaking, us waiters tend to be hopeless romantics and perhaps tend to be more traditional in terms of dating and such. It would seem most women who fall in this category would love guys who act in a gentlemenly manner by offering their seats, opening doors, carrying stuff for the and offering to walk her to her car at night. But I'm shocked to find that many women actually feel insulted by it because they feel it insinuates that women are weak and that kind of behavior originates from a time when women were treated as second class citizens.

Where I'm from, chivalry is pretty much dead. Most of the guys here are Cro-Magnum douches and our attitudes here tend to be very "progressive" and feminist. I can't count how many times I've opened a door for a lady or offer a seat only to be met with weird looks and cold reactions. One girl even accused me of trying to weasel my way into her pants! It's come to the point where I don't even bother anymore only because I'm afraid it might actually get me in trouble some day. Either I'm in the wrong part of the world or I was born in the wrong generation :/

So what say you, ladies? Do any of you find chivalry offensive?

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Generally speaking, us waiters tend to be hopeless romantics and perhaps tend to be more traditional in terms of dating and such. It would seem most women who fall in this category would love guys who act in a gentlemenly manner by offering their seats, opening doors, carrying stuff for the and offering to walk her to her car at night.

I love love love when a guy does this for me. I think it's very respectful and shows a real caring side to a guy's personality. That said I wouldn't judge a guy if he didn't do that sort of stuff, it's kind of more like extra brownie points if he does.

For example, when I started dating my boyfriend (actually the night we met so we weren't dating) he was soooo nice to me as in he was really attentive paid for my entrance into the nightclub and for my coat to be put in the cloakroom (I wasn't expecting him to do that at all because we had only been talking for an hour or so but what was really nice was the way he did it, he wasn't being all show-offy about it he just quietly did it and declined all thanks afterwards). He also drove me home that night so I wouldn't have to get a taxi on my own. He really really impressed me. Even to this day he will always open a door for me, carry my shopping bags etc. And it's not like he does it for praise, he would actually do it for anyone. I really admire that quality in a person, a willingness to treat others well. In a boyfriend, it makes me feel oh so special and makes me so proud of him.

So a big thumbs up for chivalry!! It's not dead, it's just hiding. You keep on be chivalrous Vince, as long as you're doing it for the right reasons and not just to get credit (which I'm sure you're not) then some girl will be very impressed by you one day!

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Love chivalry! Love it, love it, love it! I don't get why some women get annoyed with it. What, do they think that guys open doors for them because they think women are too helpless to do it themselves? Frankly, if a woman is ungrateful when a guy is kind to her, then it's her problem, not his.

Oh, and I found this...somewhere. Can't remember where. I thought it might've been the Facebook page, but I can't see it there, so...Anyway:

post-319-0-76498700-1346424843_thumb.jpg

xxx

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I never find chivalry offensive! I think chivalry is a wonderful thing, and is luckily not dead yet in Canada. I live in Quebec, where chivalry is even bigger due to French influence.

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@vince... A girl having a go at you cos you opened a door! I would of said don't worry love, rude and b****y's not my type (hey if she's gonna be rude to me I can give as good as I get :D ) sounds like she's definately not worth dating though

I personally think chivalry is a good thing and I do hold doors open for women... Give a girl I'm with (as in on a date or dating) my coat, I'll even give her my coat to sit on if the bench/grass is wet or dirty, help her with her coat etc if she with me then I want to take care of my girl :)

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@vince I hate that you were treated in such a disgusting way while representing yourself as nothing less than a gentleman<3 Although chivalry by most people is understood when it applies to men, I'm sitting here thinking ...is there a female variant of chivalry? I think there is! Anyone can be chivalrous including women. Women can be brave, courteous, and honorable while showing respect towards men in their own right. Sadly, the women you bestowed your generosity to Vince, didnt appreciate you for your kind gestures. They, themselves, lacked chivalrous tendencies so there is no way they could have understood the exceptional treatment they were receiving. My heart honestly skips a beat when a man chooses to acknowledge my presence and acts accordingly; whether that be him giving up his seat because only standing room is left, opening up a door, or bravely snatching a bee off my shoulder while getting stung in the process( <---that actually happened!) Please don't change who you are. Your chivalrous ways could be the very first thing someone falls in love with you for<3

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Sounds like you're in a weird town. Haha. Yeah I loooovvee when a guy opens the doors and all that for me it makes me feel so special. I even like when he does the car doors and kind of mention that as well lol. Yeah I mean just decide what you like and go off of that. The last date with a new guy I was on didn't pay for me and this was a first date. I thought that was pretty jacked up. He was 21? And I'm 24 so I mean I don't know if it was an age thing or what but I wouldn't have hung out with him again after that and he never really texted me after that night anyway so I'm assuming he didnt think much of me or something...haha. But yeah just do what you like doing and if a girl wants to be independent then let her be that way because you want the right girl to be impressed when she comes along (if you like doing that stuff).

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@vince... A girl having a go at you cos you opened a door! I would of said don't worry love, rude and b****y's not my type (hey if she's gonna be rude to me I can give as good as I get :D ) sounds like she's definately not worth dating though

Believe me Englishguy, I wanted to say something like that real bad. But we're gentlemen and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. When others scowl at us, we need to respond with grace. I've failed to do that many times in my life and I need to change. BTW, these aren't girls I'm trying to date, these are just strangers I encounter on a daily basis.

@vince I hate that you were treated in such a disgusting way while representing yourself as nothing less than a gentleman<3 Although chivalry by most people is understood when it applies to men, I'm sitting here thinking ...is there a female variant of chivalry? I think there is! Anyone can be chivalrous including women. Women can be brave, courteous, and honorable while showing respect towards men in their own right. Sadly, the women you bestowed your generosity to Vince, didnt appreciate you for your kind gestures. They, themselves, lacked chivalrous tendencies so there is no way they could have understood the exceptional treatment they were receiving. My heart honestly skips a beat when a man chooses to acknowledge my presence and acts accordingly; whether that be him giving up his seat because only standing room is left, opening up a door, or bravely snatching a bee off my shoulder while getting stung in the process( <---that actually happened!) Please don't change who you are. Your chivalrous ways could be the very first thing someone falls in love with you for<3

I agree, chivalry definitely goes both ways. I'll hold the door for a guy or a girl. It's just how I was raised and it comes naturally for me. If a girl opened the door for me, I would be appreciative of the kind gesture. It's just common courtesy I think. What kind of world do we live in where people are so suspicious of other just for a simple act of kindness? Would they rather I slam the door in their face? lol But thank you and I'm glad you appreciate it when a guy does those things for you.

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I'm not going to tell you this again... COME TO TEXAS!!!! Chivalry is alive, well, welcomed, AND expected in the South! I know people say Texas isn't Southern (ha! you heard my voice haha) but we are our own brand. A little bit of everything, and we took the Southern hospitality and added it to our culture. I love knowing chivalry is NOT dead.

If a guy doesn't hold a door open for me, I suddenly turn into a statue and don't move until he realizes his error. Hahahah. Not because I can't do it for myself, I'm quite self-sufficient and capable... But just hold the door open. That's the least he can do. I have noticed though, when I'm traveling to the East Coast to visit family (D.C./MD/VA) people are different in the city. So rushed, so scatterbrained and hardly thinking of themselves, let alone anyone else. I do not like that.

I appreciate when a guy does something chivalrous for me. It shows that he's paying attention and respectful. What's not to like about that? I don't think he's saying (with action) "hey, you're weaker than me, so let me hold this door open so you don't ruin those pretty fingernails of yours." No. He's manning up, and I'm thankful for it.

I commented something about this in your "guys driving" thread, and I said my guy friends won't even let me reach for the door handle (usually in buildings, I usually open my own car door haha) before they can grab it. They just don't. They've offered me their jackets, and cleaned up a seat at a restaurant or something, or switched me seats if mine had liquid on it. They're just that way, and I love it so much. They give up seats, they give me piggy back rides when it's raining and I'm in heels, they hold my coat for me at parties (back in my "wild child" days) when I had to go to the restroom, they take care of me and I love it so much.

I'm very independent and sassy, but I know when to let a man be a man. I know when to do things for myself, and when to just let him help me out a little bit. There's nothing wrong with it, and I actually adore it. The girl who was behaving that way towards you needs to get a clue. Sometimes guys are genuinely nice, caring gentlemen. Doesn't mean they want into your pant(ies) so chill out. Haha, although... I've had some guys try to charm me out of my pants... That never works for me. I can just see right through it. I'm always reading between the lines and listening to what's not said. It's saved me a lot of heartache, too. I expect him to be a gentleman, but I also expect him to be honest so if he's just looking for sex, I respect him for telilng me that upfront so that we're both free to move on... But he still needs to be chivalrous anyway. That has nothing to do with sex. Geeeeee!

Good question, yet again. :)

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I'm not going to tell you this again... COME TO TEXAS!!!! Chivalry is alive, well, welcomed, AND expected in the South! I know people say Texas isn't Southern (ha! you heard my voice haha) but we are our own brand. A little bit of everything, and we took the Southern hospitality and added it to our culture. I love knowing chivalry is NOT dead.

Haha, I honestly was expecting an Southern accent from you but you still got the "y'alls." lol. I remember we talked about this many times and one day I'll make it down there. The South is where I truly belong in every sense of the word ;)

I feel so out of place in the NW, not just in the issue of chivalry but just the culture in general. But I know what you mean about the East coast, the people there are always on the move and hardly anyone would even stop to give you the time of day. At least people here in Oregon are much more laid back, despite the lack of chivalry here. I just don't get it. I hate how people are so disconnected from each other. Would it really kill you to take a couple seconds to extend a simple courtesy to someone? You could be making someone's day just for a simple act of kindness. But apparently people are just too selfish these days to even care. What's even more daunting is when girls coldly reject stuff like that. What kind of decent human being would say no to someone being nice for them? It's like someone walking up to them and giving them $5 for no reason at all.

I commented something about this in your "guys driving" thread, and I said my guy friends won't even let me reach for the door handle (usually in buildings, I usually open my own car door haha) before they can grab it. They just don't. They've offered me their jackets, and cleaned up a seat at a restaurant or something, or switched me seats if mine had liquid on it. They're just that way, and I love it so much. They give up seats, they give me piggy back rides when it's raining and I'm in heels, they hold my coat for me at parties (back in my "wild child" days) when I had to go to the restroom, they take care of me and I love it so much.

That's so cool, you seem to be surrounded by the right kind of guys! No body does that where I'm from. I am convinced that Southern parents definitely raise their boys right :)

Haha, although... I've had some guys try to charm me out of my pants... That never works for me. I can just see right through it. I'm always reading between the lines and listening to what's not said. It's saved me a lot of heartache, too. I expect him to be a gentleman, but I also expect him to be honest so if he's just looking for sex, I respect him for telilng me that upfront so that we're both free to move on... But he still needs to be chivalrous anyway. That has nothing to do with sex. Geeeeee!

See, I think that's why I get such negative responses from girls. They're used to guys putting up the gentlemen facade just to get them into bed. It's unfortunate because it really ruins it for the guys who care and respect girls. It's almost as if many girls these days just accept the best they can expect from guys is mediocre treatment. Just as long as she puts out, he'll treat her okay. I cannot accept that. There are still guys out there that will treat women like diamonds only because it's right, not because of what he can gain from it. That is how I want my sons to think and that is the standard I want my daughters to have not just in a spouse, but from guys in general.

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@vince gentleman yes doormat no if a woman is rude to me I stand up for myself and call her out on her rudeness not because I'm lowering myself to HER standard but because I'm raising my expectations of her to MY standards... Why should I put up with her rudeness? just because she's a girl? no it doesn't work that way manners and respect are a 2 way street I'm not putting up with bratty behaviour just because its from a girl I mean if a guy got mouthy with me I'd be asking him if he wanted to take it outside not letting him walk all over me

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That's not what I meant, Englishguy. Calling her out is the right thing to do, but I personally would never use the term "b****" or any of its variants when talking to a woman or to anyone for that matter. I just think it's disrespectful to women in general.

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I didn't say b***h I said rude and b****y isn't my type... I'm not gonna beat around the bush and kiss her a** trying not to offend her if she was the one who offended ME in the first place

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Yeah that's probably best, as I mentioned somewhere on here before bratty girls are one of my pet peaves so I don't think we'll ever agree on this... No hard feelings mate :)

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I appreciate chivalry, though it sometimes momentarily stuns me: "Woah, did he just pull out a seat for me? Am I supposed to sit there, or is that for him?"

On a first date, I would always offer to pay for myself when the check comes, because I think that is polite, but I would appreciate it if my date would step up and cover it. After we'd been dating for awhile, then I would insist on paying sometimes, especially since I'd be the one initiating some of the dates.

Where I live, people generally hold the door open for each other, with the person who reaches the door first normally waiting and keeping it open after they themselves walk through. It is so natural for everybody to keep the doors open for others that we don't really think anything of it, though I thank or smile at people who hold the door for me. I notice the door thing most if I am carrying things. I really appreciate it if someone notices that I have my arms full and hurries to open the door.

I know that chivalry is sometimes erroneously grouped with sexism. Women want to be seen as intellectual equals to men, and sometimes we fear that men with "old-fashioned" values like chivalry will also have old prejudices about women's brainpower and role in society. Sexism is often treated like something from the past, but within my old lifetime, I've had teachers say that as a girl, I would never be as academically successful as the boys. Honestly, that just made me all the more determined to prove them wrong, and, as valedictorian of my high school, I did! I don't personally want to ever be president, but I want a guy who believes in my right to serve as president if I am qualified, interested, and elected. Women want to make sure that men know that we are capable of being independent and taking care of ourselves. That being said, I believe that men and women are different, and as a woman, while I can take care of myself, I like the notion of a man going out of his way to communicate that I am special; I see chivalry as a way for him to do that.

Chivalry isn't dead, nor is the appreciation of it! But both are harder to find than in times past.

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Whaaaaa? I don't think I've ever heard of a girl finding chivalry offensive. I find it a very charming and endearing quality in anybody, man or woman. I hold doors open for people all the time and try to be as kind as I can because I know how much it means to feel like at least somebody cares even if you don't know them. I've lived in Kentucky, Mississippi, and Texas and while I can't say much about Texas because I was too young to notice stuff like that when I lived there, I can say that for me I find people more chivalrous in Kentucky. They're more friendly overall. Maybe it's just the areas I lived in. Now when I went farther up north (Pennsylvania, New York) chivalry was pretty stagnant. They all seemed in a rush like you said RJ.

& I totally agree with you WW... Chivalry most certainly isn't dead but it seems like more and more people are forgetting the joy of showing simple affection to their fellow humans.

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I find it a very charming and endearing quality in anybody, man or woman. I hold doors open for people all the time and try to be as kind as I can because I know how much it means to feel like at least somebody cares even if you don't know them.

Yeah! Me as well. I also just talk to people when their out alone, say simple things like "Thank you", give a smile, etc.

Some tell me to hold my hand out for a tip when I open doors, but I do it out of the kindness of my heart.

Out of a sincere heart comes sincere actions.

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On a first date, I would always offer to pay for myself when the check comes, because I think that is polite, but I would appreciate it if my date would step up and cover it. After we'd been dating for awhile, then I would insist on paying sometimes, especially since I'd be the one initiating some of the dates.

See, I'm not a big fan of going Dutch on at least the first few dates because I feel like that's what friends do. But a date is different because both people have the intention of being more than friends. Part of showing how special you think the other person is by paying for the date. Personally, I believe the guy should initiate at least the first few dates and pay the bill. But really, whoever initiates the date should pay. It would be absurd IMO, if a girl asked a guy out and expected him to pay the whole bill.

I know that chivalry is sometimes erroneously grouped with sexism. Women want to be seen as intellectual equals to men, and sometimes we fear that men with "old-fashioned" values like chivalry will also have old prejudices about women's brainpower and role in society. Sexism is often treated like something from the past, but within my old lifetime, I've had teachers say that as a girl, I would never be as academically successful as the boys. Honestly, that just made me all the more determined to prove them wrong, and, as valedictorian of my high school, I did! I don't personally want to ever be president, but I want a guy who believes in my right to serve as president if I am qualified, interested, and elected. Women want to make sure that men know that we are capable of being independent and taking care of ourselves. That being said, I believe that men and women are different, and as a woman, while I can take care of myself, I like the notion of a man going out of his way to communicate that I am special; I see chivalry as a way for him to do that.

Hehe, you sure showed them, didn't you? :) Yeah I believe that men and women are equal but different. That doesn't mean we should be strictly regulated to roles based on those differences, only that we acknowledge them and celebrate them rather than deny them. I think in most cases, women can't physically match most men in terms of strength, but intellectually they can be just as adept if not more so :)

Whaaaaa? I don't think I've ever heard of a girl finding chivalry offensive. I find it a very charming and endearing quality in anybody, man or woman. I hold doors open for people all the time and try to be as kind as I can because I know how much it means to feel like at least somebody cares even if you don't know them. I've lived in Kentucky, Mississippi, and Texas and while I can't say much about Texas because I was too young to notice stuff like that when I lived there, I can say that for me I find people more chivalrous in Kentucky. They're more friendly overall. Maybe it's just the areas I lived in. Now when I went farther up north (Pennsylvania, New York) chivalry was pretty stagnant. They all seemed in a rush like you said RJ.

Yes, and way more people kind it offensive than you think. I'm beginning to believe that chivalry is mostly concentrated down South and it's very rare here in the NW and non-existent in the NE. Now I know I need to move down to the South. lol

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Chivalry is appreciated!!  Women are not weak, they are just incredibly special!

 

-Stacie

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Chivalrous behavior makes me feel like a queen I love it.

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Chivalry is definitely not offensive! I don't understand how someone can think it is, but hey we're all different. I appreciate chivalry and it shows a woman that you care about her. My boyfriend still does chivalrous things like opening the door and he once gave me his jacket when we out and about in NYC and he saw I was freezing.

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Chivalry is great! I love it when a guy treats me as if I am special. I don't feel worthy of it most of the time but I appreciate it to no end.

 

Although, I have to say, if I get to the door before the guy and want to open it for him, let me! lol Some guys will insist that they hold the door instead and by doing so, they make me hold it longer. I already have the door, I want to be nice to you, just go in or out. lol That's just silly especially if his hands are full.  

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For the most part I've been appreciated for opening doors. I love walking to school and see a girl in front of me. So I walk a little faster just to be the first to the door. As I grab the knob she slows down thinking I'm about to walk through, but surprise, surprise I was opening the door for you darling. One time I was about to open it for two girls and they pressed a handicap button and as I was reaching for the door they both opened. I thought that was pretty funny. They had know idea they missed out on some chivalry!

 

I hope my Wife likes chivalry. If she doesn't she'll think I see her as some helpless little girl because I'd be doing a lot for her.

 

Oh, wait, this is a Ask the Girls question  :o . Gotta go bye!

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