Nellek

Why i lost faith in waiting (help?)

20 posts in this topic

My girlfriend believes in waiting till marriage but i do not anymore. My argument is that you need sex to have a good relationship and to improve your chances of staying together. I don't believe that you guys should just jump straight into bed when you get in a relationship but wait awhile, maybe about a year. I've only known 2 people that waited till marriage and they both ended up getting divorced. One was because the man cheated on her because she would only have sex about once or twice every couple months and the other one was because the wife wasn't happy with the performance in bed, which brings me to my next argument. If you don't have sex before marriage, how would you know if you two are sexually compatible? If you're staying virgin because the bible says so, under that same law or rule it also says getting a divorce is bad. All of my friends and family that i know that are married that tried to stay virgin till marriage all ended up breaking this "promise". Another thing is that not having sex until marriage means nothing beyond light kissing. no hand jobs. no getting naked together and grinding. No oral of any kind. Pretty much just hand holding and light kissing. You really shouldn’t even put yourself in a situation where sex could happen. Stuff like sleeping over together or getting drinking together alone probably shouldn’t happen. And one last thing is alot of people that waited WILL be thinking about the sex and primarily get married for the sex, making it a poor decision and most likely end up separating.

This is why i don't believe in waiting til marriage, does this make me a jerk? Would you call me a player? I find this to be a very reasonable argument against people that want to wait til marriage and would like to hear your responses. Also does having these different views on premarital sex mean that you and your partner are not compatible and should break up or not even begin dating?

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You DO NOT need sex to keep a relationship. infact its been a prooven fact that most times sex can break a relationship. I think they real problem you just got week and gave in or going which makes wonder why did you join this site anyway. We all learn from mistakes I guess

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I really don't get how having sex improves your relationship and keeps a couple together. That just seems so shallow to me...what happens if someone has a horrible accident and can no longer have sex? Is the relationship over? Of course not!

You mention that the couples that waited till marriage left because of sexual performance. Do you seriously think this was the only problem with their relationship? I defy you to tell me that there weren't other factors (communication, perhaps?) that broke up their marriage. I struggle to believe that any strong marriage would break up simply because the sex was less than great.

I personally believe getting a divorce is wrong, but I am not going to judge anyone else for it. When I stand and proclaim in the eyes of God to be faithful and stick with my wife through thick and thin, I am not going to break that promise.

If you love her, respect her and her decision to wait, even if you don't like it. Especially if you don't like it!

You also mention all the things that shouldn't be done before marriage such as handjobs, grinding, etc. Most of our members agree with you, and are abstaining from those things as well.

EDIT: I have re-read my post and perhaps I came across stronger than I intended, we are here to support you no matter your issues or your opinions, but this is going to be an inflammatory point to most of our members so please forgive us if we cause offence.

Edited by AussieStig
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I've only known 2 people that waited till marriage and they both ended up getting divorced. One was because the man cheated on her because she would only have sex about once or twice every couple months and the other one was because the wife wasn't happy with the performance in bed.

Waiting till marriage does not guarantee a couple is immune to the possibility of divorce anymore than having sex before marriage. Like Naturally said, there will be times in marriage where sex will be put on the back burner due to stress, kids etc. No couple will be completely on the same page on sex over the course of a marriage. That is no reason to leave a spouse over. Those couples you mentioned clearly didn't work out because of poor communication, not due to "incompatibility."

If you don't have sex before marriage, how would you know if you two are sexually compatible?

If you've never had sex before, how would you know what is good sex or bad sex? When you have sex for the first time, that is going to be the best sex you ever had. It's certainly better than when you were not having sex. With good communication, it will only get better. But once you've had sex with multiple people, you're not going to be as satisfied staying with one person because you'll be comparing them to the other's you've slept with. It's like eating ice cream for the first time. You're going to think it's amazing and the best you've ever had because you know nothing else. But once you start trying different flavors, you're not going to be satisfied with just eating one flavor anymore.

If you're staying virgin because the bible says so, under that same law or rule it also says getting a divorce is bad. All of my friends and family that i know that are married that tried to stay virgin till marriage all ended up breaking this "promise".

Well, that speaks more to their lack of willpower or self control, doesn't it? The standard did not fail the couples. The couples failed to meet the standard. It is a standard that is not impossible to live up to so there is no one to blame but the couples themselves.

Another thing is that not having sex until marriage means nothing beyond light kissing. no hand jobs. no getting naked together and grinding. No oral of any kind. Pretty much just hand holding and light kissing. You really shouldn’t even put yourself in a situation where sex could happen. Stuff like sleeping over together or getting drinking together alone probably shouldn’t happen. And one last thing is alot of people that waited WILL be thinking about the sex and primarily get married for the sex, making it a poor decision and most likely end up separating.

People think about sex all the time, regardless if they are chaste or had multiple partners (in which they probably think about sex more). If someone primarily cared about sex, I highly doubt they would put up all the hard work of a long-term relationship leading to marriage just to get it. It would be much easier having a casual hookup. If you are committed to waiting till marriage in a meaningful dating relationship, you would clearly value more important things like commitment, selflessness and emotional connection over sex. When things in marriage get tough, what do you think will ultimately make it survive? Sex or an strong, unbreakable bond shared between two people?

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You have made objections that I think are logical and my dad has the same objections. I do not dismiss these ideas as readily as some of the other, but I do see things differently.

Waiting till marriage does not make you immune from divorce, although statistically if you are both older than your mid-twenties WTM does significantly increase your chances (especially if the person who waited is male). In my opinion anyone who gets married just so they can have sex is nothing short of foolish and waiting till marriage for the wrong reasons (as well as getting married for the wrong reasons).

It would be disheartening if in the future when I got married, I later got divorced because I only want to be with one person. But my reason for waiting till marriage is not to prevent the possibility of divorce because I believe even if I had not chosen to wait I would have been just as able to create a stable marriage that would have lasted anyway. The idea that having sex with partners before you find the one will make a more stable future relationship does have some rational merits but there are drawbacks too as some of the others have mentioned.

I cannot say how important sex is in a relationship because I simply do not know. I am not sure how important sexual compatibility is because again I do not know. My dad says it is very important and that is one of his main opposition for me waiting - so I imagine it must be important. However, by me waiting I would not know any different and sex would be what it ends up being and I would not know whether it was comparatively good or bad because I would have nothing to compare it to. On the other half of the coin; the girl who I will marry would in all probability chosen not to have waited because things like personality are far more important and I have to be realistic. Will I be able to satisfy her needs - well I will try my best and you cannot fail until you have stopped trying. I think a large part of marriage is about compromise and I would be willing to try to change anything for her and I would like to chose someone who would be as equally willing to try to change anything for me. I think the sexual part of the marriage will grow and bottom line my eventual wife would have chosen me because of the person that I am which I cannot change.

While I think your opposition does have some rational merits and marrying someone that you already know suits you perfectly in every-way already does make sense (both non-sexually and sexually). However, realistically if you cannot overcome problems on the sexual side of the marriage that WTM could create how would you expect to be able to overcome problems over money, sickness, work, children etc.

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A huge ditto on what everyone else said. The sexual compatibility argument IS nonsense. As long as you're a man and she's a woman you're compatible its not rocket science. Like Vince said, if you're virgins the first time will be the best sex either of you have ever had; how will you even know if it's bad or if you're "incompatible" (whatever that means to you). You'll have the rest of your lives to practice and get pretty darn good at it and find out what things work for you and your wife and what doesnt.The divorced couples you mentioned are a clear case of miscommunication; the sexual problems were just byproducts.

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All of my friends and family that i know that are married that tried to stay virgin till marriage all ended up breaking this "promise".

For me, this quote sums up a main problem with your argument. It isn't sex that will establish a long term relationship and improve your chances of staying together; it is the quality of your character. I think if you have a good character, you won't necessarily think about yourself, but be concerned with the other person. In other words, not put your hope in something that isn't the only factor in a marriage. Other factors could play a role in affecting a marriage (and not just bad sex).

And one last thing is alot of people that waited WILL be thinking about the sex and primarily get married for the sex, making it a poor decision and most likely end up separating.

I would hope so, :). Many people think about sex. For me, I don't think it is the fact that I think about sex that is the problem, it is what I do with those thoughts that matter. Hence, one reason why I WTM. I know it isn't popular but I choose it because of the benefits that I can gain and the positive things I can give to someone else.

If you don't have sex before marriage, how would you know if you two are sexually compatible?

Well, one answer is... you won't know until you actually have sex. However, I think there is something to say about having great sex and learning that the other areas in your marriage aren't anything to celebrate about. I think you can work up to having great sex.

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Thanks to everyone who replyed

No, you are not a jerk. You are a guy eager to get what his body craves.

A Player is a guy who gets with a lot of girls regardless of their feelings...Are you a player?

Different views on this mean your beliefs are not compatible.

If you're going to pressure the girl to have sex when she wants to wait until marriage, save her heart the trauma and break up.

If you like her a lot and want to see how much more you can like her keep dating, you never know.

All of you pretty much said the same thing about the seeing if you are sexually compataible with your partner. I guess now that i think about it, it is nonsense. I would never pressure someone who had different opinion on WTM than me because I wouldn't be thinking about her and just myself. When you said "Different views on this mean your beliefs are not compatible." are you saying i should just call it quits now?

I have been with my girlfriend now for almost 2 years i am 19 and she is 18, meaning marriage won't be for like another 5 or 6 years. Thats if we make it past the college years, though everyone i knew who went into different colleges with girlfriends all made it so im not that worried about that. I can see myself 10 years from now with this girl but with this difference, im not sure whats going to happen. Right now, i believe she thinks im with her on waiting till marriage still so I will have to have a talk to her about this in the near future. And i guess why i did post here in the first place is because i'm looking for help to get on the same boat as her.

Also, i consider myself to have a high sex drive (get in the mood for it alot/think about it alot) so how would you guys deal with this?

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We would never tell you to call it quits straight away. Give it time, try and tone down the intensity of the relationship...just enjoy each other's company and getting to know each other without sex. Relax, you have a long life ahead of you both if you're planning to make it long term!

I also consider myself to have a high libido. Try and find ways to change your lifestyle to not feed it, for me it's hitting the gym three times a week and getting out to do things with mates. When you're with your girlfriend, be careful with how intimate you get - it's a slippery slope! Talk about serious things as well as joking with each other, and don't forget going out with your friends too.

Of course, these are all just things that have worked for me, so don't feel like you have to do them or that they'll work for everyone!

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Thanks to everyone who replyed

All of you pretty much said the same thing about the seeing if you are sexually compataible with your partner. I guess now that i think about it, it is nonsense. I would never pressure someone who had different opinion on WTM than me because I wouldn't be thinking about her and just myself. When you said "Different views on this mean your beliefs are not compatible." are you saying i should just call it quits now?

I have been with my girlfriend now for almost 2 years i am 19 and she is 18, meaning marriage won't be for like another 5 or 6 years. Thats if we make it past the college years, though everyone i knew who went into different colleges with girlfriends all made it so im not that worried about that. I can see myself 10 years from now with this girl but with this difference, im not sure whats going to happen. Right now, i believe she thinks im with her on waiting till marriage still so I will have to have a talk to her about this in the near future. And i guess why i did post here in the first place is because i'm looking for help to get on the same boat as her.

Also, i consider myself to have a high sex drive (get in the mood for it alot/think about it alot) so how would you guys deal with this?

I think it's really sweet that you're trying to get into the same boat as your gf on the WTM issue. It shows that you really care.

To be honest I dont think your problem is with the concept of WTM, the fact that you are even discussing this with us shows that at some level you can see the value of it. I think your problem is to do with the fact that you really love your girlfriend and therefore really want to sleep with her.

That is completely normal. If you felt any other way I would be telling you to reconsider whether you should be in the relationship. If you didnt want to sleep with her then you would have problems.

Let me share a secret with you....most of us have pretty high libidos, if you look around this website you will see a lot of topics around the subject of sex where we express our fears and excitement and frustration around that future date when we will finally get to do the deed.

I heard it a few times before on this site but the best way to show your love to your girlfriend is not to sleep with her until you put that ring on her finger. If you only knew how important it is to us girls to have a guy show his commitment and utter love for us by doing that. It shows the ultimate respect, passion and love for us. If you love your gf be patient and give her this incredibly powerful token of your honour and love.

That said, I do think you should tell your girlfriend how hard you are finding it at the moment to control yourself. If you are open with her you will be less likely to say something stupid in the heat of the moment that will put pressure on her which I can tell you dont want to do. It is incredibly hard to wait. I'm not denying that. I know how hard it is and just how tempting it is to throw the towel in and just "do it". But it wouldnt be worth it. I know that this is the path to a happy and fulfilling marriage. Im not saying its a guarantee against divorce, there are no guarantees in life. But I cant see how a course of action that fosters mutual respect and helps you to build on the non-sexual aspects of a relationship would be more conducive to divorce further down the line.

A relationship is like a cake. You need all the ingredients first: trust, loyalty, respect, compatibility (non-sexual), love. Then you need to mix it up and bind it together with the closest friendship imaginable. Then you put it in the oven and cook it with a lot of time to make sure that all those ingredients blend together to make an absolutely gorgeous taste. When all that is done only then can you make this great tasting cake even better with icing (marriage). For the grand finale and to complete the masterpiece the cherry on top (sex) can be added. To have a good cake you need to follow the recipe step by step and do it right, otherwise you will end up with a cake that just doesn't satisfy.

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Nellek - I have been holding back on responding here... trying to figure out for me what I thought ultimately your question really was... and how I could add without literally responding to the challenge question of "if it's real relationship, you should sleep together before you get married, in order to know for sure."

And then it hit me... what I wanted to share with you... if only to offer a perspective that wasn't literally about your question.

For me, my wife is literally the only woman i ever even thought about spending my life with. Yes, I admitted to very heavy crushes with three other women, including one in high school, one in college, one in grad school. I said I love you to two other women (both in college). With the women I said ILY to... I knew there was a part of me that wanted to have sex... but I never thought that would reassure me or prove to me or to her that we should think about more of a relationship (meaning marriage or not). I never put those two things together. For me, sex was, and is, making love. Who I want to make love with has of course been led by my religious upbringing and values, but in the heat of a romance and love affair, making love comes quickly to mind :-).

So then who I want to make love with is about expressing my love and intimacy with a woman. Yes for me, I only wanted to express that within marriage, but again, the operative word was "expression" - not "compatibility", not "improving my chances of staying together".

I honestly never entertained the thought that I wouldn't be sexual compatible with my wife... it's not like we didn't kiss and touch each other enough to know did it make us excited at the prospect of more and how it might someday someday someday feel. But I honestly never thought twice about it.

For me... moving to a sexual relationship was a jump-up - yes it came with marriage for us, and yes for plenty of other people it happens without marriage. but it was a jump-UP... it wasn't a proof point; it wasn't an assurance point that maybe we could go onto another relationship level after clearing that hurdle.

So... I know you've changed your mind... and that is entirely your choice your free will! that's what God has given each of us as human beings! you just have to figure out which is primary for you... testing the next stage of the relationship, or working the relationship as it is right now with your GF... if she wants to keep waiting, then like everyone else has pointed out you have a choice to make ("keep" or "toss" so to speak)... and if she like you is thinking about not waiting too... well then maybe yo uhave your answer...

but only you know what the right answer is for you and for your GF :-) I think everyone else here may yes... vote for waiting... but I support your opportunity to choose. I support it as your friend, as your friend in Christ. I might urge you to take a particular choice... but in the end, staying open, accepting, supporting and forgiving and loving is what we're here to do with and for each other. Bless you for asking the question of everyone... and I hope that you are as thoughtful in your eventual discussion with your GF as you have been in asking the question here and hearing everyone's thoughts.

:-)

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Nellek-

I know you've heard a lot so far but I just wanted to add that I agree with AussieStig about divorce. I read something recently about how sex and money are not the most common reasons people get divorced--it's the communication problems they are having and issues with sex and money are byproducts.

Also-about the sexual compatibility issue: everyone's first time isn't the best time. Let's be honest; most people's first kiss and first time having sex don't go as well as they hoped. It's ok. Whether you're in high school, college, or just married, the first time isn't going to be great. I've accepted that. Emotionally, mentally, spiritually it will be great, because I know we're married and everything but physically it may not be. So what? You've got the rest of your honeymoon and well, life together to tweak things and try different things. I don't see that as a valid argument because you know from kissing/making out if you are sexually comptaible or not. If it felt like kissing your brother/sister obviously you wouldn't be dating.

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Right now, i believe she thinks im with her on waiting till marriage still so I will have to have a talk to her about this in the near future. And i guess why i did post here in the first place is because i'm looking for help to get on the same boat as her.

Also, i consider myself to have a high sex drive (get in the mood for it alot/think about it alot) so how would you guys deal with this?

Being in public helps a ton! Even if you two are alone watching a movie or something, having other people home helps too. Try to make sure you have something to do so that you don't have dead time where it's like 'hmm what should we do? ;)'

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Also-about the sexual compatibility issue: everyone's first time isn't the best time. Let's be honest; most people's first kiss and first time having sex don't go as well as they hoped. It's ok. Whether you're in high school, college, or just married, the first time isn't going to be great. I've accepted that. Emotionally, mentally, spiritually it will be great, because I know we're married and everything but physically it may not be. So what? You've got the rest of your honeymoon and well, life together to tweak things and try different things. I don't see that as a valid argument because you know from kissing/making out if you are sexually comptaible or not. If it felt like kissing your brother/sister obviously you wouldn't be dating.

So true! It's an unrealistic expectation to think the first time of kissing or sex is going to be perfect and quite frankly, puts a lot of pressure on the other person to meet that standard. I can't believe how many people I've talked to who make it a deal breaker if the other person isn't a good kisser. Is a child going to be able to do wheelies and grind down a stairway the first time he rides a bike? Absolutely not! Life is not like in the movies where the first kiss is going to be hot and passionate. Relationships take lots of work and leave someone just because physical things weren't great to start off with is just absurd. I know when I get my first kiss, I'm expecting it to suck (no pun intended). In fact, I'm pretty sure I'll even miss the target :)

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I know when I get my first kiss, I'm expecting it to suck (no pun intended). In fact, I'm pretty sure I'll even miss the target :)

No you won't miss! If you want girl perspective on a few deal breakers/ no-nos feel free to PM me

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EB: I guarantee you won't miss the target :-)

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I will take you up on that offer, Sally. PM sent.

ian, thanks for having faith in me :)

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Okay, I know I'm Mr. Negative, but let me try to add some realism to the situation.

First off, if you are really dead set on not waiting but your girlfriend thinks you are, be a man and tell her right now, not in the near future. The longer you put it off, the more you will hurt her in the end. DO IT!

Secondly, quit giving yourself so many rules and plans. WTM can mean a lot more than just holding hands and light kissing. Everybody tries to clearly define it but it really comes down to is what you and your partner are mutually willing to do. And sometimes these change of time. And don't say you will marry in 5-6 years, that's false planning. I can tell that you're 19 because any older person will tell you that long term plans like that almost never come to fruition. Just loosen the restraints a little.

I actually agree that a couple should be more or less sexually compatible. I have a high sex drive too, and if my wife only wants to have sex once or twice a year, I can see how that would put un-needed stress on the relationship. However always remember that any relationship involves compromise.

You may not be able to experience how it would be to have sex with her right now, but you could probably figure it out. It's all about communication. If it's a big deal to you, ask her about it. Play the "How often would you have sex and what kinds of things would you be open to", 20 questions game. Be sincere and mature about it and you'll likely get an honest answer. Sure, it may be awkward, but knowledge is power!

Plus I'd have to guess that the more you get to know her, the better you will be able to read her body language and attitude toward sexuality. So with that and the communication, it shouldn't be a shocker to guess how sexually open and active she would be.

Your choices are your own, but if you ask me, she sounds like a keeper!

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How you know if youll be sexually capatible:

By kissing. I've made out with more than a handful if girls. Some of them were dead fish and made me do all the work. There were others who were decent. Then there were the ones who were so aggressive, driven and passionate it blew my mind. I have a high sex drive so I tend to lean towards liking girls who fit into the third category.

From that alone I'm sure you could pick out which ones I would have the best sex life with.

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How you know if youll be sexually capatible:

By kissing. I've made out with more than a handful if girls. Some of them were dead fish and made me do all the work. There were others who were decent. Then there were the ones who were so aggressive, driven and passionate it blew my mind. I have a high sex drive so I tend to lean towards liking girls who fit into the third category.

From that alone I'm sure you could pick out which ones I would have the best sex life with.

I totally agree with this. Kissing can tell you a lot about how compatible you are with a person. For example, I like to mix it up when kissing and to experiment with different sensations. I find it boring if a guy just does the same thing over and over again. So I can tell whether or not I'm "compatible" with a guy from the way he kisses me.

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