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Guest John Morgan

Just how important is virginity?

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If everything else was of equal compatability (appearance, age, intelligence, etc), which one would you choose?

1. A guy waiting until marriage who works in a steel plant.

2. A guy who has had a one night affair who works as a dentist.

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So you mean MALE virginity?

Well, to me virginity doesn't matter at all. He could be a virgin or not a virgin and it wouldn't matter to me at all. But one-night stands? Hm...I guess if he had one or a few one-night stands in the DISTANT past it is not my place to judge him. If I truly like/love this man, the DISTANT past one-night stand(s) won't bother me much as long as he is a really great, worthy man in the present.

I would never get involved with a guy who ever made a habit out of one-night stands.

So if this dentist guy had a one-night stand in the DISTANT past, who cares? And the jobs don't matter to me at all: virginity or no virginity, if I don't have feelings for the guy who works at a steel plant, I am not dating him.

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So many responses, I can't read them all. Even though marriage is not in my plans, I thought I would answer it from a guy's perspective, hypothetically choosing between two girls. For me, morals always trumps money. If you are a waiting mail carrier and the other girl was the CEO of a fortune 500 company, I'd be moving my mailbox closer to the house. Heck, I may even apply for a job at the post office. It wouldn't matter if she didn't have all the academic credentials, was a little overweight, didn't have the best social skills, didn't have a portfolio of wealth, etc. So for me, the answer would have been very easy. Some who read that question may have thought: "What difference does a job make? As long as he loves me, that's all that matters." That may be a way of looking at it while your still young (<30). But I've lived long enough to see virginity devalued and scorned for the sake of money and prestige too many times. I've watched girls make untold mistakes over the years - and are now divorced single moms. So I'm not sure why you couldn't answer that question. Maybe you haven't grasped your value for the right guy - which can't be measured. Or maybe your scanning the names of celebrities and waiting until money instead of waiting until marriage. I think one of the respondants sumed up the answer to that question best when she said - "Well, to me virginity doesn't matter at all." Maybe forums like this will help you understand the priceless nature of waiting and its eternal properties.

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No, I disagree. Virginity doesn't matter in the slightest. I would never consider a man less moralistic or of less value if he wasn't a waiter and/or a virgin, same goes for women.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH BEING A SINGLE MOTHER. I love how you attacked single, divorced mothers instead of the guys that knocked them up and then abandoned them and their children. Really nice of you. NOR AM I WAITING UNTIL MONEY!!!!!!!! How completely offensive of you to say that!!! I HAVE MONEY!!! I do not come from a middle-class family, believe me. From my Grandmother's inheritance alone I don't need a man for money!!!!!!!! And I don't scan celebrity names!! What did you even mean by that??

Waiting until marriage is a CHOICE, one that I find preferable. But I don't like the idea of WTM because I think those who don't wait are dirty and sinners, or that I'll "taint" myself if I have pre-marital sex and be of less value.

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The two things that arise different between the two are their virginity and their possible difference in income they would earn. In my personal opinion neither of those matter to me.

1st -Virginity.- I personally do not have an issue at all with marrying someone who is not a virgin, nor do i judge them because of it.

S I think one of the respondants sumed up the answer to that question best when she said - "Well, to me virginity doesn't matter at all." Maybe forums like this will help you understand the priceless nature of waiting and its eternal properties.

Being on this site proves we value virginity. Otherwise we wouldn't be waiting till marriage. I think what Sophie was trying to say is that, obviously marrying a virgin would be amazing, but its not a deal breaker. If someone is amazing and fits you, and is compatible with you, Whether or not they still retain their virginity is not of extreme importance. Who they are, their character those factors i personally think are more important.

2- the money- - I think that is really a personal thing. In your scenario you are questioning not only if we would chose a virgin or non-virgin, but whether or not we would pick one with more income. Really thats each to his own. Me personally it wouldn't matter. As i stated above i dont have an issue with marrying a non-virgin, rather someone who would wait with me till marriage, which is just as much of a sacrifice.

So my answer to your question, which of the 1 or 2 would i choose, i would happily choose either.

I think in your question you were weighing the idea of Morals (the guy in number one) as opposed to Wealth (the guy in number two) and whether we would choose morals over wealth. But i disagree that just because someone might not be a virgin means they don't have morals. Yes virginity should be valued, it is very precious, but just because someone isnt one, doesnt mean they are not just as precious as someone who does. The same goes for wealth, just because someone has wealth as opposed to someone who doesnt, really shouldnt be what deems them valuable or precious or who has more Morals.

"Your comment about virginity being devalued for wealth and prestige"

People in todays world are shallow, and some will choose money over substance and what you term *moral*, Everyone is entitled to choose who they want, based on how they see things. I dont think it is a strong argument saying that women who choose "wealth" over a "virgin" means they all end up single mothers. In some cases that can happen, but there is nothing wrong with being a single mother and i don't agree that the blame can be layed solely on one side.

Everyone is entitled to their choice and there opinion. :)

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If the only difference was the virginity, I would choose bachelor # 1.

In a nutshell, if I am going to be saving myself for that one guy I want to spend the rest of my life with, it would make the wedding night and so on, less special had he not waited.

Sure he may just have had a moment of weakness. I hate being harsh, but that just doesnt cut it. I wouldnt wanna deal with more "moments of weakness" throughout marriage.

If that makes sense. :)

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OH and.. There also seems to be the issue of money. If he is content with how he is doing, can live off his income, is humble, works hard, and has healthy ambitions, then I dont see anything wrong with working in a steel plant making not so much VS working as a dentist making a lot. It honestly does not make a difference at all to me. Its just that sometimes well established men tend to have desirable traits such as above. But then again men with higher incomes can also tend to have more undesirable traits, like megalomania, which is the most irritating thing ever! :P

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I think what Sophie was trying to say is that, obviously marrying a virgin would be amazing, but its not a deal breaker.

Exactly what I meant. Virginity is just not something I look for in a partner. I'm neutral about it. That doesn't mean I'm going to end up a single, divorced mother.

But i disagree that just because someone might not be a virgin means they don't have morals. Yes virginity should be valued, it is very precious, but just because someone isnt one, doesnt mean they are not just as precious as someone who does.

Again, exactly what I meant. I never equate virginity with morality. I'm a moral person because I never lie, I am always loyal, I strongly value honesty, I don't bully others, I really value love...not because I am a virgin. Of course I think virginity is a precious thing, especially when someone really values it in themselves. But I just don't think someone is more "special" or more "pure" because they didn't wait. I would totally date a guy who is a virgin if I really liked him, and same goes for a guy who isn't a virgin.

"Your comment about virginity being devalued for wealth and prestige"

Everyone is entitled to choose who they want, based on how they see things. I dont think it is a strong argument saying that women who choose "wealth" over a "virgin" means they all end up single mothers. In some cases that can happen, but there is nothing wrong with being a single mother and i don't agree that the blame can be layed solely on one side.

Everyone is entitled to their choice and there opinion. :)

Yep!!! :)

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Waitingforyou - I disagree. And I never said that all girls who make a mistake end up divorced and single mothers. I said "I have watched girls make untold mistakes." I did not say that "they all end up single mothers." If you're going to answer my questions, please do not misquote me, put words in my mouth, assume I'm starting an "arguement, or assume to know what I'm thinking The question I posed is fairly straightforward. Thank you for sharing your . . . nonconclusive answer. Also, I didn't know we had spokespersons on these forums. Interesting. ;)

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Waiting - There are stats on this site as well as others that show two waiting people have much higher success rates with their marriages.

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Redyellowblue - "If he is content with how he is doing, can live off his income, is humble, works hard, and has healthy ambitions, then I dont see anything wrong with working in a steel plant making not so much VS working as a dentist making a lot."

Finally! Somebody answered a straightforward question. I think it's one of the main things wrong with our country today - people unable to decide what they value in life and unable to prioritize serious matters. Rather than being harsh, I think you're using common sense. I hope you find that perfect guy out there - and I'm sure he doesn't have megalomania.

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The question I posed is fairly straightforward. Thank you for sharing your . . . nonconclusive answer. Also, I didn't know we had spokespersons on these forums. Interesting. ;)

Clearly your question wasn't posed "fairly straightforward" otherwise it wouldn't have been misunderstood. No need to be rude.

I said "I have watched girls make untold mistakes." I did not say that "they all end up single mothers."

And guys don't make mistakes? That might not have been what you said, but you were extraordinarily critical and judgemental of women.

Rather than being harsh, I think you're using common sense. I hope you find that perfect guy out there.

I'll just settle for trash then. Am I being "harsh" because I am stating my opinion? Because I don't judge a guy based off his virginity status? Are you being all soft, talking that way about females? Like being divorced, single, and a mother is such a terrible thing? You asked for opinions, and I gave mine. I would NEVER date a guy who was waiting until marriage just because he is waiting until marriage, steel plant worker or dentist or billionaire.

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No, I disagree. Virginity doesn't matter in the slightest. I would never consider a man less moralistic or of less value if he wasn't a waiter and/or a virgin, same goes for women.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH BEING A SINGLE MOTHER. I love how you attacked single, divorced mothers instead of the guys that knocked them up and then abandoned them and their children. Really nice of you. NOR AM I WAITING UNTIL MONEY!!!!!!!! How completely offensive of you to say that!!! I HAVE MONEY!!! I do not come from a middle-class family, believe me. From my Grandmother's inheritance alone I don't need a man for money!!!!!!!! And I don't scan celebrity names!! What did you even mean by that??

Waiting until marriage is a CHOICE, one that I find preferable. But I don't like the idea of WTM because I think those who don't wait are dirty and sinners, or that I'll "taint" myself if I have pre-marital sex and be of less value.

If it doesn't mean anything? Why are we waiting? How can you deem what you practice to have no value? Surely you must see how what you are saying could be construed as a big middle finger to all of us who have put our pleasure on hold to please the right woman.

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If it doesn't mean anything? Why are we waiting? How can you deem what you practice to have no value?

I'm waiting because I only want to give myself to one man. The man who is the love of my life and views me as the love of his life. Doesn't mean he has to be a virgin. I never said I wouldn't date a virgin! All I said was that it isn't something I look for in a man. I just want a guy who loves me more than anything, so much that he wants to marry me and have children with me and grow old with me. And I feel the exact same way about him. That's what I'm looking for, not a virgin. But if he is a virgin, I think that'd be great. Just not a necessity.

Surely you must see how what you are saying could be construed as a big middle finger to all of us who have put our pleasure on hold to please the right woman.

I do sincerely apologize if that's how my comment was taken. I never said I wouldn't date a virgin or that I didn't want to date one: all I intended to say was that to me a man is worth way more than his virginity and I would never choose a guy or reject a guy based off of his purity status.

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Sophie its alright. We would just be happy to know you would prefer someone who waited. That way the sacrifice has been worthwhile.

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Sophie its alright. We would just be happy to know you would prefer someone who waited. That way the sacrifice has been worthwhile.

Oh, I see. Well I think everyone here would prefer a waiter, right? But somehow the word "prefer" seems wrong to how I feel (not that I am saying another waiter is undesirable because I totally don't feel that way.) Finding another waiter, falling deeply in love with that waiter, would be a wonderful thing, of course. It would make everything easier and simpler, I'm sure. But I think the sacrifice is worthwhile as long as he is an amazing, wonderful man who is crazy in love with me and will be an amazing father. I would definitely prefer a man who has never had a one-night stand or been into womanizing. Ick, no thanks. And yes, another waiter would be ideal for certain.

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I changed my mind about what I just wrote so i'm deleting it. I instead offer you a picture of my kitty.

1jKqo.jpg

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I feel in a somewhat similar way to how Sophie feels (but I apologise if I misunderstood your perspective). I am neutral to the fact whether the person who I marry is a virgin or not. It would make things easier but so would having other commonalities like having the same level of education, the same economic background, the same life experiences etc. These commonalities are not something that I would particular look for, but they are extras if you get them.

This will probably only apply to me but I am waiting for marriage because I want to wait. I value my own virginity but do I see it as valuable in in a future potential wife? I would certainly sincerely appreciate the sentiment of waiting and the other values it shows (commitment, loyalty, determination etc) but beyond that, it is not important to me. These qualities can be shown in other ways and I think their are far more important things that makes them waiting insignificant to me.

So assuming that the case applied to a female and other things being equal I would probably have gone with the dentist. Not because of the money but because I think it would provide more opportunities to have a fulfilling life together (not that you cannot have a fulfilling life as a steel plant worker). If the case had suggested a nurse or teacher vs a dentist, I would have chosen the nurse or teacher despite being less paid.

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The truth is... we all want it all. And yet we are all as human as the people we eventually take on in our lives - short-term or longterm, friend or love, forever more as our husband or wife. And with that humanity comes trade-offs, openness, acceptance, forgiveness and optimism if we can muster it. JM's question is provocative yes - as are most of life's choices! and I guess for me, what it reminds me of, is that i love with my heart, I live with my spirit, i embrace with my soul, I seize opportunity with what I have, and I afford what I can afford!

And most of all what i wanted to afford was the woman to stand by me, with me, for me, ahead of me, as part of me. The rest that came along with it... lifestyles, professional choices, success or merely getting-by... well... those are up to me to figure out, deal with, make the most of, and savor for what they are... whatever they are. I have been personally extremely blessed and fortunate... so I also take responsibility for not forgetting that, and sharing wherever I can. :-)

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I changed my mind about what I just wrote so i'm deleting it. I instead offer you a picture of my kitty.

1jKqo.jpg

That's a very cute kitty!

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I do agree that the populace at large is being conditioned to be desensitized to sex, yet, I feel at the same time, that many virgins feel that they own the exclusive rights to other virgins, nobody said this explicitly obviously, but it is being implied behind statements which are designed to demoralize and devalue those who are non virgins. However, there is more to morals then virginity. Virginity is to act as a symbol, not just a physiological fact. It "symbolizes" purity, it does not "embody" purity. There are many virgins who are neither pure in thought, nor in deed, and many non-virgins that are honorable in both. John, you say you have lived long enough to see virginity devalued and scorned, however you need to understand the times your living in, most children these days, that are over 15, have seen virginity devalued and scorned, you are not privy to some ancient insight I'm afraid, so why so condescending? As for the statistics? As any statician will tell you, statistics are guides not rules, but "that" is commonsense. I think many people on here are giving straight answers, they are just not simple answers. I think that a greater problem in this country is people assuming individual social behavior is simple. I didn't come here to sight my preference, just to translate other peoples. I'll save my opinions for myself.

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2Face - Likewise, I think the questions I presented were very straightforward - However I didn't see many simple or straightforward answers. You don't need "ancient wisdom" to see that. And I completely understand the times I'm living in. And thanks, but I translate my own thoughts. You're a wise man. Be strong. Continue the wait.

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Give me the poor moral guy any day.

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