Guest John Morgan

Virginity definition and men.

20 posts in this topic

Since it's been taken out of most dictionaries, how do you put the word "man" back into the definition of virginity?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, for me, the superficial answer would be....being a man that is different from what society expects men to be. Obviously, I don't have to tell you the expectations that society places on the male gender (players. loud, extroverted etc..) I will admit I don't fit those characteristics, so I think it might only seem logical that according to society I am not a "real" man or heaven forbid a male virgin(which I think society has a hard time giving the attention that it deserves).

So I'm guessing the bottom line of my post would be that as a male and a virgin, I beat to a different drum. A drum that I think society doesn't know how to play really well. I don't think the word "man" has to be put back into the definition of virginity, because it really hasn't been missing. Male virgins do exist. I guess we just haven't been given the attention we deserve.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said slayer. I'm gonna take it from a religious point of view. Society's definition of a man stands in stark contrast to God's definition. The Bible, being a thorough furnisher of all good things, tells us to wait till marriage!! Society can debate whether waiting til marriage is the best way or if it's possible nowadays, etc. but when you really get down to it if God says it's right than that's good enough for me. Theres a whole host of other reasons to wait which we talk about here on the forums and they are all valid BUT in my opinion as a Christian they all stem from God telling us not to defile the marriage bed and to keep it pure. The emotional aspects of sex, the bonds it creates between two people, pregnancy, intimacy, pleasure etc etc are all things God intended sex to be. After all, he created it! Being God's man (the true meaning of a 'real man') means being a virgin until your wedding night.

One of the most interesting things I find about society's attitiude towards waiting is how most "Christian" men flat out do not wait in this day and age. I haven't spoken at length with many Christian friends who haven't waited but I do remember having a discussion with a friend several years ago who said..."Well my girlfriend and I love each other, that's all that matters, God doesn't care about that piece of paper" What!? It's not the piece of paper saying you're married it's the covenant that marriage makes between you and your spouse and God. But I digress; I think many Christian males get caught up in the "40 Year Old Virgin" mentality that male virginity is not only not natural, its strange and weird. Something to be made fun of and laughed at by the masses. Male virginity is scoffed at by much of society which leads to most Christian guys just saying to hell with waiting. But deep down I really believe that many regret not waiting after the fact...it's like the saying goes...it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. It's easy to say you wish you had waited when you didn't than to actually wait...

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm totally with you, DD. Premarital sex in the church isn't just a guy problem, it's a huge problem in general. I'm willing to bet that at least half of the professed Christians these days end up not WTM. It's one thing if you gave in during a moment of weakness, we're human and we sin, but it another thing entirely when you start to make excuses to justify premarital sex. It really makes you wonder are they really trying to please God or please themselves? Another excuse I can't stand is when a couple throws in the towel once they're engaged and rationalize it by saying, "Oh, we're basically married. Why wait?" Why wait? What part of "waiting till marriage" do you not understand? Even during engagement, you're technically still dating. Which is why it's called "engagement" and not "marriage." Crazy, I know.

But at the same time, we can't be naive and deny the increasingly high amount of temptation in today's society. Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion. That is why when I find the right girl and realize she's the one for me, I want to get married as soon as practically possible. I think long engagements are just unhealthy because it invites more temptation into the relationship than necessary. That's why I'm a huge fan of eloping and if you must have a wedding, try to have as short of an engagement as possible.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion

Amen!! I love that verse; and definitely with you on the long engagements thing. Having never been engaged I don't know for sure lol but I imagine temptation could potentially be a lot stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i just want to say to all your male WTM'ers that I am so proud of you for waiting and I know society has it's ideas of men being sexually experienced and stuff when they hit a certain age, but i just want to say that you are REAL MEN because you are waiting. I have so much respect for you. I have no idea what it is like to be a guy and be waiting and am sure it isn't easy at times, but keep hanging in there-you guys are awesome!

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with HTH!! I know a guy who's GF upon hearing no, said 'you're not attracted.to me? You don't think Im pretty?' She obviously took It the wrong way and wouldnt let it go and they did sleep together. A friend of mine told me he was planning on waiting before that. (She knew I was and she wanted to too so it wasn't weird talking about that) That just broke my heart. He is a really sweet guy and she totally manipulated him Instead of respecting hus decision.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know I agree with all of you on this, especially dodgedude. My perspective may be a little different because of my age. I remember a day and time when men did wait, when we were included in the definition of "virgin," and when the only men who were strange and weird were those who did not wait. Elvis Presley's dancing was the biggest scandal back in those days. Imagine that today. Even if the internet had existed in the 60s, this subject would never had come up for discussion on a forum.

In my opinion, sex is one of the new gods of the 21st century. It is considered just as important as food for human existence, if not more so. To give you an idea of how much men are included in the definition in this area: The county I live in has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the state, the highest highschool dropout rate, and the largest charity in the area collects diapers and baby formula. There are 14 and 15 year old girls pregnant at all times. I can't think of a church that hasn't been effected by a sex scandal, usually involving the preacher or deacons. The only single guy in my church over 19 is . . . myself at fifty one. And the back roads are littered with condoms and beer cans. If I charged a nickel toll for the dirt roads, I be a rich guy.

Slayer, I noticed you said you hadn't spoken at length with many Christian friends who hadn't waited. I haven't spoken with any Christian friend who has waited for over 30 years. Sometimes I wonder if there is really a chance we will to turn around and get back to Christian values. Have we gone too far? I don't know all the answers. I can think of a couple of things that may help. We certainly need more young ladies like Holdingtohope who speak out and give us encouragement. We need to know that our waiting is worth it. And we need reminded of what we're waiting for. Most of all, we need something we can hold on to when we are being ridiculed, something we can point to as a trump card. "Look what I'm waiting on. What did you get?" I know this works both ways and we need to encourage the ladies too. But I think the waiting guy is the endangered species today.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good points all around John. That's sad to hear about your church but I suppose those types of things are more common than uncommon in this day and age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like male virginity is not valued enough, if at all. Girls are encouraged to wait until the right guy and right age, but guys rarely are because they don't have the threat of pregnancy and the near-inevitable pain of first-time sex. Also males aren't thought of as empathetic and emotional as females, so no one really considers the idea that a guy could get used for sex or regret sex. It's unfortunate, because by teaching teenage boys the value of sex you are helping teenage girls to avoid pressure for sex and such. It's a win-win situation.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since it's been taken out of most dictionaries, how do you put the word "man" back into the definition of virginity?

Not to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe it will happen any time soon. Things tend to go on to be the way they are going to be; not back to the way they were.

However, I will say that forums like this are a good way to start. The ability to communicate globally definitely makes it easier for many of us with similar beliefs to support each other.

I had friends in high school wanting to wait. Moving on to school and moving out around the country, most faltered, and I think not having a social support network by constant contact made it easier to stumble.

Now maybe this is something that Mike can run the numbers on, but I think we have a pretty good split of guys and girls on the forum. It may be true or a stereotype that men have a tendency to "give in" first based on the extra pressures that societal stereotypes place on us. However, I think if you take a look at people actually wanting to wait, the numbers are closer to 50/50.

Would be curious to know.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"However, I think if you take a look at people actually wanting to wait, the numbers are closer to 50/50."

In my area, the numbers of people may be around 50% for those 12 and under. Over 40-50? You'd need a calculator with a lot of decimal places.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me of something my friend said to me once as a joke. A key that fits all locks is a master key whereas a lock that fits more than one key is a faulty lock. And from my experience it seems to be quite accurate portrayal of general societal expectations and that men are expected to sleep around whereas women are not. I also believe that this is why male waiters tend to be less vocal than female ones because it is seen as more unconventional.

Not sure how to redefine the male stereotype and get virgin included in the definition of 'man,' but then again I dislike stereotypes because they are overly simplified. I do not think WTM will ever be seen as normal again (for men and women), but I think it could become more socially acceptable to the point that whenever you tell someone you are not expected to justify/debate your opinion.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me of something my friend said to me once as a joke. A key that fits all locks is a master key whereas a lock that fits more than one key is a faulty lock. And from my experience it seems to be quite accurate portrayal of general societal expectations and that men are expected to sleep around whereas women are not. I also believe that this is why male waiters tend to be less vocal than female ones because it is seen as more unconventional.

Not sure how to redefine the male stereotype and get virgin included in the definition of 'man,' but then again I dislike stereotypes because they are overly simplified. I do not think WTM will ever be seen as normal again (for men and women), but I think it could become more socially acceptable to the point that whenever you tell someone you are not expected to justify/debate your opinion.

i think you guys are evidence enough of this point... a discussion like this would have been unlikely at best 20yrs ago!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, sex is one of the new gods of the 21st century. It is considered just as important as food for human existence, if not more so.

yeah no kidding :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not easy to define a virgin man. There is really no way to "prove" you are a virgin, however most men probably wouldn't hide/lie that they are virgins. Essentially it's choosing the Right way versus the Easy way and because of that, I would say if a guy told you he was a virgin, he is probably telling the truth. Keeping in mind this is a man with integrity and not using it to take advantage of a girl. Furthermore, at the end of the day, you as a man would know whether you are a virgin or not, so if you pretended you are not (which I can understand as it is not the "in" thing to do, you would only be hurting yourself).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love WTM guys!!!! Eeeeekkkkk♥♥♥ You guys rock!!!!! :DDD

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know I agree with all of you on this, especially dodgedude. My perspective may be a little different because of my age. I remember a day and time when men did wait, when we were included in the definition of "virgin," and when the only men who were strange and weird were those who did not wait. Elvis Presley's dancing was the biggest scandal back in those days. Imagine that today. Even if the internet had existed in the 60s, this subject would never had come up for discussion on a forum.

In my opinion, sex is one of the new gods of the 21st century. It is considered just as important as food for human existence, if not more so. To give you an idea of how much men are included in the definition in this area: The county I live in has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the state, the highest highschool dropout rate, and the largest charity in the area collects diapers and baby formula. There are 14 and 15 year old girls pregnant at all times. I can't think of a church that hasn't been effected by a sex scandal, usually involving the preacher or deacons. The only single guy in my church over 19 is . . . myself at fifty one. And the back roads are littered with condoms and beer cans. If I charged a nickel toll for the dirt roads, I be a rich guy.

Slayer, I noticed you said you hadn't spoken at length with many Christian friends who hadn't waited. I haven't spoken with any Christian friend who has waited for over 30 years. Sometimes I wonder if there is really a chance we will to turn around and get back to Christian values. Have we gone too far? I don't know all the answers. I can think of a couple of things that may help. We certainly need more young ladies like Holdingtohope who speak out and give us encouragement. We need to know that our waiting is worth it. And we need reminded of what we're waiting for. Most of all, we need something we can hold on to when we are being ridiculed, something we can point to as a trump card. "Look what I'm waiting on. What did you get?" I know this works both ways and we need to encourage the ladies too. But I think the waiting guy is the endangered species today.

God's people have faced this before Isaiah 59

I believe it will just take the true followers of Christ trusting in Him and being the "salt of the earth" to bring us back to where we need to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like male virginity is not valued enough, if at all. Girls are encouraged to wait until the right guy and right age, but guys rarely are because they don't have the threat of pregnancy and the near-inevitable pain of first-time sex. Also males aren't thought of as empathetic and emotional as females, so no one really considers the idea that a guy could get used for sex or regret sex. It's unfortunate, because by teaching teenage boys the value of sex you are helping teenage girls to avoid pressure for sex and such. It's a win-win situation.

Its like a game now for young guys, who can say the right thing, take her to the right place, and then get her. And its funny, a lot of guys that young yeah, are curious about sex, but a good bit are scared, nervous, and feel pressured to say their aren't virgins anymore so they aren't the ridicule of locker room talk. If any of you have played sports you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now