sagittarius

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About sagittarius

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  1. Sally: if he is the right guy, he won't compare you to anybody.
  2. For Kim Kardashian, marriage was a way to promote her brand. And it did get her a lot of publicity. People talking about how she is immoral are only increasing the attention and exposure she gets. There is an increasing thought that marriage is the new boyfriend/girlfriend. It's not seen as a serious lifelong commitment anymore. In a way I think this is bad and in a way I think this is good. It is bad for the obvious reasons: loss of trust, hurt, betrayal, lack of integrity, etc. However, it is good because the "marriage industry" has for decades (centuries?) been promoting marriage and the wedding day as the peak experience in life, complete with wedding gowns and expensive diamonds. I would be happy to see all of this pomp & circumstance go. And people are starting to realize that all the pomp & circumstance is stupid. When you think about it, all a marriage consists of is a legal contract. That's all it is. It has nothing to do with spirituality or commitment; people can be married & not committed to each other, committed to each other & not married, or committed married & atheist. Even when a marriage is performed in a church, that church has absolutely no say when the couple decides to call it quits. The lawyers, however, DO get involved. Something is wrong with this approach.
  3. I had challenges with this as well. It would come out as side-talk at the holiday dinner table when everybody was present, "And well maybe (me) will meet somebody and start having children just like (sibling)." If somebody understands and is supportive, then you will only need to explain why you are doing what you are doing, once. If somebody is not supportive, then you will never win them over no matter how many times you explain, so it is better to let them go and spend time around others who ARE supportive of your choices.
  4. Hi everybody, Rather than one reply per post, It's dwindling down so I'll include everybody in one. Andrea: The one point I have been making here is that the Bible does NOT say premarital is a sin. And nobody has proven me wrong on this. What I would offer to the discussion is that PERHAPS waiting has more downside than upside, after a certain age. It was certainly the case for me, as the older I got, the less and less there was to be hopeful about. Have you ever read the book, A Prayer for Owen Meany? Tempest: I honor that your parents are happy together, and think they made a respectable decision. I have never tried (to the best of my knowledge) tried to break up a couple. I have also never pressured or coerced anybody into giving up or going against their values. As the adage goes, go with what works. If you think I am being offensive then that is your projection. I am only offering perspective. I've actually enjoyed your posts, as they have been thoughtful except for this one. Rogue: This was my approach until age 28. Then, I'll say circumstances changed and my decision no longer served me. I do not regret waiting. And I think you have a rational and grounded perspective on this. I used to believe this. But, starting around age 23, I found that my lack of knowledge about sex directly prevented me from being able to connect with women I was interested. (plural meaning two, the one who I REALLY wanted and then another who was also excellent) In retrospect, I was AFRAID of sex and sexual energy. There was an imbalance. And it drove the very person I wanted to connect with, away. After it happened four times total, I decided to make a change. head girl: I have thought of getting her to view this thread. It may happen. And if it does... hi honey! But she does have a lot of support in her life. Which I think is good. Except most of it is from the church. Which I think is bad. Last note: Miss Girl and I are having communication difficulties, and much of it spawns from differences of opinion around sex and religion. I just wish she would divorce herself from the damn church and start following Jesus's original intention like the first 12, but she has to be able to see that for herself. Time will tell how this plays out. Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas.
  5. Yes it is the thoughtlessness that I am criticizing. If you want to wait, that is fine as long as it is a freely-made CHOICE and not something that is mandated from an outside authority who claims to represent the word of God. I actually waited for a long time. And it was certainly not because of religion (I had experienced enough hypocrisy by the time I was 13 to last me for a lifetime). I had my own reasons. And I remember seeing, guys getting drunk and punching each other and becoming sworn enemies because, "he took my girl!" All of it reinforced my resolve to wait until I found somebody who was special. I'm also not overly promiscuous. Most single people who are more sexually liberated regard me as an amateur, which I readily agree I am. There are codes of ethics and social norms involved with the single scene that I will probably never understand, nor do I want to. I do see girls degrade themselves and chase guys who do nothing but degrade and use them. In fact, these girls are attracted to the guys who degrade them! I see guys waste much of their lives preening themselves and learning stupid behaviors that will only net them short-term opportunities to get off. Usually at the expense of long-term ambitions. For me this has never been a worthwhile trade-off. However, toward my late 20's I realized that virginity was no longer serving me. It wasn't helping me, in fact it was ruining my chances with the very women I had waited so long to meet, found myself interested in, and heartbreakingly found myself shot down time and again because they "just don't feel that way about" me. After this happened twice, I was devastated, and after it happened four times, my confidence was completely gone. There was no support for remaining a virgin, my emotional condition was becoming worse and not better, and I decided to make a change. I remember the letter I wrote as a prayer. I probably still have it. And, a few days after I sent it out, a woman I had met a few months ago called me out of the blue and wanted to get together. We spent a few days together, got along, and one morning I put out there, "yes, yes, I'm ready." And that was that. She and I did not last forever... but it was a clean and innocent exchange. I was later with a girlfriend who was sexually manipulative, and played the "cute" card very well while she withheld sex to get her way. We had a strong connection, and our families really liked each other, but boy am I glad I did not marry her. Another girl was a single mother of two and I learned a lot about raising children just by watching her and living with her for about a year. There have been a few others, but each has contributed to my life in a really significant way. Each experience/person has been a special, learning experience and when I do finally meet the somebody whom I want to spend my life with (and yes my goal is a lifetime partnership), I am ready to power a great relationship. My eyes have always been on the prize. As for losing the V-card and never being able to get it back, I think that mindset is motivated by fear, and not by love. Fear and guilt have no place in any practice of faith. You can fear a bear's attack, and you can fear the loving embrace of God as it approaches, but you should never fear the joys of life. So what if you are no longer a "virgin", who cares. You are still a child of God, as pure and untouched as the day you were born, and that is what's important. There are virgins with terrible hearts, and there are prostitutes with hearts of gold. Don't be judgmental, especially of yourself. There is no shame or blame in living life, so long as you love God with all your heart..
  6. I don't "use" people. Please don't get into "should"'s. By this you are suggesting there is only ONE path that every person needs to take. Life doesn't work this way. My hats off to your parents. I do feel that today is a different time. We don't have a depression, a WWII, or a Cold War literally threatening our survival. Such extremely harsh conditions can bind people together. However, I would not wish such brutal conditions upon future generations, and I hope you would agree with me here. But, among people who have a wide range of free choice, I have yet to meet a couple, or even a person, who is glad they waited. Granted, I do not live in Utah where such things are likely to be more common.
  7. This is a separate conversation but I follow God in almost every aspect of my life. I do recognize that I am not perfect. But my efforts and intentions are sincere. I would very much like to meet some people who ARE happily married, and in retrospect are happy they waited. As of this moment, I have yet to meet a single person (born 1970 or later) who fits this description.
  8. Hi, Tempest. I agree. People regretted ending up with the wrong person. AND, a large part of WHY they ended up with the wrong person is because they followed what their parents told them to do, or what their church told them to do, and did not ever learn to discern things for themselves. So if you want to follow celibacy, do so for your OWN reason, and not because others say you 'should' do things a certain way. If that is what is right for you, then I applaud you for recognizing this. I sincerely wish you luck and this kind of discernment, to find the person you desire and who is right for you.
  9. Hi Stephie, Can't say that I agree with this at all. The truest love relationships I have ever witnessed, did not wait. And those who have waited, were not coming from a place of true love. It's not my opinion, it is just what I have witnessed.
  10. Hi Andrea, and thank you for weighing in. From what I read of this above paragraph...you are endorsing my view! "if she pass the flower of her age...he sinneth not: let them marry." ??? This is where I disagree with you, and the entire purpose of my arguments here. It is NOT wrong according to the Bible.
  11. Hi Sally, The only problem I have with the church is it doesn't follow the will of God. If somebody follows God's footsteps, I have no problem with their actions. If however somebody follows a misguided church leader who falls short of the glory of God, then I do take issue with the actions that are influenced by said church leader(s). There is a thing called skill in lovemaking. If you want something to be the best it can be, wouldn't you want to get some practice and experience, so you become GOOD at what you want to be doing? It is like saying, "I dream of being on the big screen as an actress, but I don't want to act in school plays or local theatre because I want my stage time to be as special and the best it can be." This is a maturity issue. You can't be jealous of his past experiences or compare him to others you have shared things with. In fact, if you DO wait, you might still wonder what else might have been. This issue has nothing to do with waiting vs. not waiting. Best approach is to be present and love your partner as if he (or she) is the only person in the world.
  12. Hi Jegsy.. thank you for your second reply. I am not arguing that the Bible is wrong, which I think many of you misunderstand. (Except for certain passages in Leviticus, where Paul disagrees with the teachings of Jesus, and the fact that most books have been translated five times between languages to get to English--certain words in ancient Hebrew or Greek just don't have equivalents or the same cadence in English--but these are details). The Bible truly is a remarkable tome. Awww, that's nice. If only things worked that way. But they don't. Just this morning I spoke with a friend of mine who is now in her 40s, grew up extremely strong in her Christian faith, and for many years had a wait-till-marriage approach, for those exact same reasons. And you know what? She did get married, and her sex life was...completely boring. An absolute dud, no excitement, no passion, no pleasure, and no fulfillment. She was like, "I waited and held out this long...for this??" She is still quite strong in her faith, but she now believes this "wait till marriage" belief is rooted in fear and not in love. I do not know a single person, not a SINGLE person in Generation X or later, who "waited until marriage" and later in retrospect was glad they did. They might have no regrets about their intention, but while I was waiting until marriage myself, these friends (who successfully did wait until marriage or at least until they found their marriage partner) actively encouraged me NOT to wait. Is it possible that some of you are getting your hopes up too much? What will you do if you find that "special" person, and it turns out to be less than you hoped? What will you do if you are 45 and still nobody shows up? Thank you... I am not flaky and there are more important things to me than getting my "number" up. However, I have committed my life to truth and the way; when somebody "believes" something that is incompatible with God's plan, I have to point it out.
  13. Hi everybody, Have been saddled with an unexpected family situation the past few days but you have all been on my mind and heart.
  14. Ahh, last post for tonight. Thank you Claire! We have had two very intense conversations about this, during the past two weeks! And, well, we're still talking. So that has to be worth something. I appreciate your perspective though. People somtimes place faith in things that, in the end, are revealed to not be grounded in truth. Pedophile priests claiming to be closer to God than the children they were abusing, and the victims' parents were keeping faith in the priests. Things like that. I have no problem with real and true faith, in fact I love it. It is solid, it is grounded, it is real. I do have a problem with faith in things that are not real and true. You might call them idols. And this false viewpoint... waiting until marriage only because an interpretation of a religion says so, is not real faith. It's not real, it's not divinely inspired, it's not in harmony with God's plan. You hit the ball out of the park here. This is EXACTLY why I am making such a big deal out of this. I don't mind teaching or showing somebody who is open-minded and interested. And I am open-minded and interested enough to consider and learn from a different veiwpoint. But the important thing is that our intentions are in alignment. If we can reach a real harmony, then we don't even have to agree on every detail, because the overall flow of the relationship dynamic will just work. If our intentions are not in harmony, then this issue is going to turn into another issue, which will turn into another issue, and five months or 15 years later a lot of resentment will have built up. So, I am taking this issue very seriously. What both she and I have in common is that our personal faiths are the very highest priority for both of us. It is rare to meet somebody else who is just as sincere. As with all things, being both engaged and patient will bring out the right outcome. I really enjoyed your post...thank you for sharing.
  15. Perhaps a discussion about the Bible, since it is important to you, is a "main event!" Academic degrees, university assignments, and church rankings do not confer the authority to judge, nor do they confer infallible interpretation. Song of Solomon 2:3, "I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste," is pretty darn lustful. You can't get much more of an explicit account of a woman giving a man oral sex than this. Again, theologians and awards do not establish divine credibility. Popularity, yes. But not credibility. Some of what I write is my own viewpoint, based on life experience. I am happy to share this, and do not assume that my view is endorsed by the Bible. However, "sex before marriage is a sin" is another viewpoint, which is fine... but you should not say that this view is endorsed by the Bible either, because it is not. Yes, because he does. I actually mentioned it. But your Corinthians 7:1-2 reference does not allow for this exception, so those verses are by themselves incomplete. I do respect the gift of celibacy, and have been celibate for most of my adult life. Perhaps. But they are important hairs. There seems to be this universal Christian belief that sex before marriage is a sin. I am postulating that it is not a sin, and that basing life choices upon such a belief does great harm to levels of intimacy that two people would experience, without this derived and false belief making things complicated. Since I am in a situation where this false belief may impact my life directly, I have chosen to highlight this false belief, to shed light on it, so that a truer belief, one more in accordance with the true will of God, can be realized. Thank you...sincerely. Your points have gotten me to consider much. My purpose with this thread is not to troll, but to come to a kind of completion, to settle the issue once and for all.