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Everything posted by Arwen4CJ

  1. I am new here.....

    Hello there. Someone from a dating site suggested that I join this forum, so that is what I am doing. I quickly get discouraged on dating sites because I find out that most people do not want to wait until marriage for sex, even if they say they share the same faith as me, even if they say that they are very serious about their faith. This is the number one reason that I quickly tire of dating sites, so I am hoping to find some like minded people here. I'm not very good at introductions, so if anyone would like to know anything specific about me, feel free to ask in this thread, or contact me privately. I do plan to participate in discussions here, as I hope to have some things in common with those in this community.
  2. I was wondering if another section for the forum could be created for singles who are 25 and older. It would be good to have a place where we could encourage one another, as some of our struggles are slightly different from those who are younger. Sometimes we feel like we are running out of time to find someone, and most of our family and friends are already married and have children. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?
  3. I will apologize in advance -- I will probably step on some people's toes here. I want to state upfront that I do not mean to demean anyone or their faith, or lack thereof, but I do want to discuss this topic, as it has very much been on my mind for quite awhile. There's no way to have this discussion without the possibility of offending some. So I'd like this to be a friendly discussion. I do have strong views, but I know that others here do as well. As I've said before, I'm probably one of the older members here....and I've been in the church all of my life. I've seen and experienced different things in the church, and so I'd like to have a discussion about some of this. I would welcome input from others here. Maybe some of you have seen or are seeing the same things that I have....or maybe you don't see these things at all.... I guess I'd like to start this discussion off by asking you guys what you see taking place in the universal Christian church today. (By saying universal Christian church, I'm not talking about a specific denomination or non-denomination...but rather the overall church). Do you see most churches as teaching the gospel, and Scripture? Or do you see somethings being taught that you think contradict Scripture? Or do you see things that are not really against Scripture, but not mentioned in Scripture either?
  4. I'm seriously about to cry right now I hadn't checked messages on the dating site I'm on in a few days, and I just got this message from a guy who is a year older than me and lives in my town: I absolutely hate this This is one reason that I am tired of being single. I know that I have value from who I am in Christ. I know that. I'm just tired of being viewed as a sex object by men. Why can't an honorable man take interest in me? If I had a husband, then he could defend me against those who would drive by and call me a female dog (except they used the real term) out of their car window. (That happened to me a few weeks ago, and no I was not wearing slutty clothing. I was gardening, and had jeans on and an old t-shirt.) Last year an 80 year old man (he doesn't look 80), whom I had always thought was just a nice friendly guy, got me alone and started kissing me and told me he wanted to cheat on his wife for me. Thankfully I was able to get away from him. I'm so sick of this. Why do men think they can treat women like this? Why do even Christian men do this? It all makes me sick. Rationally, I know that there are social causes for it -- the way that sex is just put out there in the media and is devalued, and that so are women....but I think the problem is getting worse. I do want to be found attractive, but I want to be found attractive in a respectable way. I want a man to truly value me and pursue me -- not for a men to go after me just because they think I'm hot and they want to have sex with me. I'm not an object; I'm a person. I'm so tired of being treated like I'm a slut. The guy who messaged me claimed to be a Christian who was serious about his faith Where are all the honorable and respectable Christian men? I know that this is life, but I wish it didn't have to be this way. I'm upset and I'm venting.
  5. Well, for me denomination doesn't matter so much as a person's personal theological beliefs. There are what I call nominal Christians in every denomination or non-denominational church, and there is often a wide variety of theological beliefs within a given denomination or congregation, regardless of what the actual denomination or church officially believes. On Essentials: So, I would want to know what the guy actually believed. Does he actually believe in the things in the creeds? What is his prayer life like? Who does he believe Jesus is? What does he believe about the Trinity? What does he believe the gospel message is? How does he live out his faith? How does he treat others? I would consider all of these things. Does he share his faith with anyone? And if so, how? How does he glorify God in his daily life? I'm going to include a few other things here -- that would make a big difference to me: What he thinks about the spiritual gifts: I am not a person who believes that the spiritual gifts have ceased. At the same time I am not a person who thinks that the main point of the Christian faith is to manifest spiritual gifts. I do believe that God equips people and that they are to be used for His glory. However, I am very much opposed to how some charismatic and hyper-charismatic churches view them and use them. For example, I have a problem with things like getting drunk in the Spirit, getting slain in the Spirit, making animal noises, gold dust, angel feathers, angel orbs, gems, gold teeth, oil oozing out of skin, a certain popular type of spiritual warfare that is being taught in many charismatic/Pentecostal churches, and in general I have a problem with the overemphasis on spiritual gifts, manifestations, supernatural experiences, signs, and wonders. There are certain Christian authors and speakers that I avoid because I consider them to be false teachers. So if a man was really into this stuff, then I wouldn't be able to marry him. What he thinks about the Word of Faith/prosperity doctrine: The teachings that say that God wants us to be healthy, wealthy, and prosperous, and that if we're not then we don't have enough faith, or we are sinning. I'm not into the teachings that say we have to name a verse in the Bible and then magically claim it over us with our words so that we can make it happen for us. I will not marry someone who is into this movement. I think it's false. What he thinks about the occult/gnosticsm, New Age etc: I understand the Bible to be very against these teachings and practices, so if a man claims to be Christian and yet engages in these things, I wouldn't be able to marry him. Then I would consider other theological matters. On Non-essentials: Now for the things that I list below, I consider them to be non-essential matters, but if a guy were to consider them essential, then I think that would prevent me from marrying him. I'm okay having differences on these things, but if he is unbending on them, it would cause a problem. So I could discuss these things, and would be open to having a difference of belief about, as long as he also respected my view as valid. People sometimes have very strong opinions on these matters, so depending on what his views were, I might or might not be able to marry an individual of differing beliefs: For instance, I am not a Calvinist, so if a man is a staunch Calvinist, then I don't think he and I would get along well. I would find it very difficult to marry someone who believed that Calvinism was the only true Christian belief, or someone who didn't believe in any type of free will or choices that we make, etc. I am also not a King James Version Only Christian, so if someone is a KJV Only Christian, especially if they believed that a person would go to hell if they read another Bible version, I wouldn't be able to marry that individual. I do believe that God is the Creator of the universe -- but I'm not so concerned at exactly how He did it. I believe that since He is all powerful, He could have created the universe in a matter of literal 24 hour days. At the same time, I am also open to the belief that the "days" in the creation account may not actually have been literal 24 hour days, but rather God's time. It doesn't matter to me exactly how long a "day" was; what matters to me is that God created the universe. I'm open to the idea of God using evolution here, so long as God is the One who was guiding the process, etc. For some people, my statements here would be deal breakers, which is fine. I'm not sure that I could be happy being married to a man who held to an extremely strict view of a literal 24 hour creation -- if he wasn't open to the other views here. Beliefs about the end of the world -- I don't have a set view of exactly how this will all pan out. The only thing that I do know is that things will get worse before they get better. There will be a lot of false teachers and deception leading up until then, and things will be bad in general morally, etc, just as Jesus and the NT talks about. I also know that Jesus is returning someday, and that there will be a final judgement. There will be a resurrection of the dead, etc. But I don't have a specific view about the tribulation, or the things in Revelation. I'm not about to say, "this is how it will happen." I believe that only God knows the day and the hour and exactly how this will all enfold. So I am open to ideas about the rapture, about there not being a rapture (I do not believe that the rapture is the same thing as the Second Coming -- I have no question that there is a Second coming), about there being a pre-trib rapture, about there being a mid-trib rapture, and about there being a post-trib rapture. If a guy has an unbending idea about what the end of the world will be like, such as it must be pre-trib, then I don't know he and I would get along. If his idea about the end times has become the gospel message for him, he and I would have a difficult time of it. Views on baptism -- I personally don't believe in baptismal regeneration, or the practice of infant baptism. These views might be an issue for some guys. I am open to other views, and after really discussing things with him, I would be willing to have an infant baptized, but I would not like it. Still, as long as he respects my personal beliefs here, and he is able to marry me knowing my views, then I think we could work this out. I also don't believe that someone has to be dunked in order for baptism to be valid. Views on communion -- I'm actually open to almost any view here. I've gone through periods of time where I've almost become convinced of one view or another. So I'm able to understand other views, and whatever view he has I'm probably open to, and have probably considered at one time or another. However, if he thinks that his wife must hold to a specific view, and he is unwilling to discuss it, it could cause problems. It would be his decision whether or not it were a deal breaker, because it wouldn't be on my end. The only exception here would be if he didn't want it ever, and didn't see any value in it whatsoever, or if he wanted to use something other than grape juice/wine. Style of worship -- I've been to services of various kinds, and as long as the gospel is being preached, I can genuinely worship anywhere. I tend to prefer contemporary type services, but I do like a little bit of traditional aspects -- such as lighting the advent candles and having Lenten services, etc. I tend to prefer the more quiet contemporary worship songs to the really loud and fast ones. However, I also like hymns and things. As long as people are reverent to God in a service, and things do not feel to stiff, I am good with almost anything. I don't "need" one style of worship over the other. I have preferences, but since worship isn't about me, and the main point is to worship God, then I should be able to worship in any worship setting. I'm flexible. However, he is not flexible (he either thinks that only hymn singing is genuine worship, or he thinks that only the Psalms should be sung in church, or he thinks that it is evil to use instruments in worship, or he thinks that a person has to raise their hands in worship, or if he thinks only contemporary worship songs are valid, or whatever) then he and I would have issues here. There are probably others, but those are the major ones that I can think of right now that may be a problem. In addition: I'd want to pray with him -- for our family, and I would want to study the Bible with him. I would want to talk about theological matters, and I would like him to be the spiritual leader. So I would want him to always be learning about these matters, and I would want us to have common ground. So if he and I are able to get through all that, and are agreed upon the essentials, can respect each other on non-essentials, then I can honestly say that I could marry him regardless of the denomination or church he attends. Now, different denominations would bring with them other non-essential issues, so the same non-essential rules would be applied. If we can respect each other's views as valid on those, then we'd be fine. I'd like to attend church with my husband, so he and I would have to be in agreement about what church to worship at and belong to. It may be a church in a denomination that one of us already attends. It may be a church that neither of us attend. We'd agree on criteria that we would look for in a church. Now, next question -- could I marry a Roman Catholic? Yes -- but there would be more specific issues here to look at. For example, I'm uncomfortable with praying to saints and Mary, so I wouldn't do these things, even if I attended a Catholic church with him. There would be some other things that I disagreed with. If he was okay with me disagreeing, then there wouldn't be a problem. There might be some doctrines that we'd have to have heavy discussions on. Again, if he was open to the discussion, and to hearing my views, then we might be able to work something out. If not, then a relationship probably wouldn't work.
  6. Thanks to all who have commented here. I just want to say that let us all prove to the world that we are not people who are slaves to what our culture says about us. For women, let us be good examples of women of character. Men, cherish things about women that are more than just looks. Let's fight against our culture together. We can make a difference I also want to say that I didn't post what I did because I was blaming the guys on here for how other guys act. Not in the least. Please don't feel that you need to apologize for their actions. I know that it isn't your fault, and that you are not the guilty ones. I know that the guys on this site respect women. I was just venting about what I have encountered -- not asking for an apology. I do know that there are nice guys out there, and that the guys here are respectable people. It's just that there are so few examples of nice single guys that I have encountered in real life. So I was just venting my anger at what our culture values, and how many guys think of women. I know it doesn't apply to all men, of which I am very thankful for. Justin, you are right -- I don't think that many people these days really think relationships through. Since our culture is all about being in the moment and having fun -- then sadly that is what dating has become. I really wish that we could go back to the days of courtship like 100+ years ago where "courting" was all about getting to know someone, and where people didn't "court" unless they saw the person as a potential marriage partner. Why can't more people do that? The questions you stated that lots of people think about are probably the ones that people ask the most. envincebal,I know that he wasn't treating me the way that a Christian man should. I responded to him back, questioning him why he sent a message like that to a woman, and I told him that if he wanted a respectable woman, he was going about it entirely wrong. He then told me that he didn't think that a woman would have responded to a simply message of, "I found your profile interesting, and I want to hang out." I got the impression that he sees himself as very unattractive, and that no one would be interested in a relationship. He thought that all he could get from women was sex. So although he shouldn't have sent me the message, and his attitude towards dating and such is all wrong, he is a victim of our culture just as much as I was in that situation. There are many guys out there who are like him. They have believed the lie that they are unworthy of a real relationship, and think that getting sex is the best they can hope for, or the most important thing in a relationship. It's our culture that I was mad at, and that was making me cry. If only we could change our culture in some small way. Thank you for bringing Matthew 7 up. I know well about false teachers, but I never really considered it on a Christian by Christian basis, but it does also apply to individual sheep. And yes, it does show how far our world has fallen, which is another reason that it brought me to tears. And I do know that whenever I do find a wonderful guy that I will know that the waiting was totally worth it -- like waiting at a restaurant for chocolate cake....or red raspberry ice cream -- hmmm...I shall have to tell that story on here sometime TheJayspyder,You are correct - -it is what our culture propagates. There needs to be a killing frost that gets rid of this bad fruit. To me true manhood will always be defined by character and how he treats others. I value honor and respect, even if our culture doesn't. We all need to just stand up and say that we will not let our culture define these things for us. We will live to a higher standard. Our culture needs a revolution in how we view relationships, how we view true men, and how we view true women. And Stacie, I completely agree with you. Thank you for saying what you did. I feel better now. It was just in the heat of the moment that I was feeling so upset.
  7. The Prodigal Son

    From the Christian standpoint, no one is actually "good"..everyone falls short, including the characters in the parable of the prodigal son. I think most people, whether they are Christian or not, whether they have heard the story before or not, think about how unfair it seems to the older son. We can all emphasize with him. We're all a little bit of both brothers, I think -- or maybe a better way of thinking about it is that we're all sometimes prodigals, and we're all sometimes the older brother. I think it's safe to say from the context of the story that the older brother resented his younger brother, and resented the fact that his father still loved his brother even after wandering away, and the fact that his father was celebrating the return. So I think that the older brother sinned here too in the attitude he held for his brother, and the grace that his father showed to his brother. We can all be like that -- resenting those who have always lived a selfish, sinful lifestyle, especially when they start to turn their life around. And when we are like that, then we are not seeing the person for who God created them to be. We are not loving them the way that God wants us to. We should be happy when a person begins to turn their life around, and turns it towards God. And although the people who really lived a lifestyle that most would consider "bad" or "apart from God," do receive a special understanding of God's grace and mercy, because they know how much they have been forgiven for, I would imagine that they still suffer consequences for their past behavior, and I'm sure that many of them do struggle with regrets. But since I don't believe that anyone is really good, then we all experience this a little. The story here is more about the Father's forgiveness, grace, and mercy than anything else -- and actually the Father in this story offers it to both of his sons. That's my view.
  8. Why DO we always dig the bad boys?

    I'm sorry....I misunderstood...It just seemed like you were suggesting that most women tend to go for the "bad guys." You wrote this earlier: So to me, the part I bolded -- it sounded like you were suggesting that most women preferred "bad guys" to "good guys." I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comment. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was trying to understand what you had written.
  9. Why DO we always dig the bad boys?

    When dealing with people, especially on the Internet, there are always going to be extremes, and it is the extremes that seem more memorable to people. Honestly, if you talked to the average woman who wants to get married, she probably will tell you she would prefer the "good guy" to the "bad one." Of course this will depend on what your sample is....maybe I'm just a weird woman who prefers men who are considered "good guys." But I know that I'm not alone. Another problem might be that some of these "good guys" are not attracted to the "good girls," but instead have their eyes on the "bad girls," finding "good girls" to be boring. I have seen this myself. But I personally would not be interested in a guy who found "bad girls" attractive. is clear to me that there are some "good guys" who are only interested in "bad girls," and there are some "good girls" who are only interested in "bad guys." I am unconvinced that either is representative of the general population. It just might seem like it is to you because that's what you happen to be seeing.
  10. Why DO we always dig the bad boys?

    Then again, these women are not looking for true husbands. And with a subjective definition, it is hard to talk about, because it wold mean that we don't all mean the same things, which would make it difficult to have a discussion. By "bad boys," I assumed that what was meant was someone who broke the law, was on drugs, didn't respect women or their boundaries, didn't try to guard a woman's heart, and wanted to get physical with her before she was ready, or wanted to influence her in that direction....basically someone who is a bad influence in general. That kind of image is what comes to mind when I think about the "bad boy" concept. By "good boys," the image I think about is someone who is just an all around great person. Someone who is for the woman he is with, and won't try to push the boundaries, someone who treats his woman well, someone who helps out and is a great friend, and certainly would be future husband material. Someone who was a great influence on others. Now, I don't know, maybe some people don't view it like that. Maybe some people equate "bad boy" with being adventurous and fun, and equates "good boy" with being someone who doesn't like taking risks, and who is just nice but is nothing special, etc. But to me, those definitions aren't what I think, and if that is what is meant, then different titles should be used. Things like "Risk Taker" and "Non-risk Taker." That would be more descriptive. Just my thoughts here. So if we are talking about Risk Taking, then it is all on a continuum, rather than being one or the other. I don't think I would be attracted to someone one either extreme of the scale. I would tend to go for guys who were closer to the Non-risk Taker than Risk Taker, but I wouldn't want him not to be willing to take any kind of risks at all. A complete non-risk taker would be boring, yes, but they also probably would not be willing to take any risks for God, either -- such as sharing his faith with others, approaching people in social situations where he might be rejected, or just going for a walk for fear that something might happen, etc. So I do think that some risk is good, but not reckless risk. But, according to my definition of "good guys" and "bad guys," I would not find "good guys" boring in the least. Rather, I would find them interesting.
  11. Spirituality

    Thanks. Yes, anything that you are uncomfortable with telling me, you don't have. Anything that you are uncomfortable putting out in the open on this forum, you can PM me, as you did with the Revelation dream. The dream you posted on here seems to show that sin has spiritual consequences, which we already knew from the Bible The dream does present the message in a graphic way. I don't know whether or not that dream was from God, but it does show the dangers of sin. I do know people who have sensed something similar to what you have when they are around others. The question, then, is what to do with it. And there you would need to ask for the Holy Spirit's wisdom. If He is allowing you to sense things like that, then there is a purpose to it. Sometimes it might be to warn you of someone, or to get you to pray for someone, or to get you to confront someone in a loving way. Perhaps just a word from you like, "God loves you," or "You look nice today," or "I'm glad to see you today," could really make someone's day. Perhaps you and others could pray for an individual like that, and take the person to God. If you felt there was a demon present, and you felt that there should be an exorcism, that might be another reason to "sense," something like that. But prayer always is good I've never had a strong physical reaction to another person, but I know that some Christians do, and I do think that it can be a spiritual gift from God. That is a form of discernment. The discernment I experience is's more about the content of what someone says, and whether or not it lines up with Scripture. Both these are forms of discernment that the Holy Spirit gives to people. So it is awesome that you have this gift.
  12. Spirituality

    I believe that God speaks in different ways. He doesn't need us to be totally silent in order for us to hear Him speak. For example, He can speak in situations, He can speak to us through the words and actions of others, He can speak to us when we are listening to a song, He can speak to us when we are deep in thought about something, He can speak to us while we are reading the Bible, etc. He can speak to us when we are praying, of course. Our minds do not need to shut off in order to hear Him. I should also point out that at least biblically speaking, there is a difference between mediation in the Bible and the emptying your mind kind of meditation. God gave us brains, and He speaks to us through them sometimes. When the Bible speaks of mediation, it seems to me to be encouraging us to think about God, to think about Scripture, to think about creation, to think about the things that He has done for us. It is active, not passive. I won't deny that there are Christians who do try to empty their minds or, still their minds -- but I'm not sure that it is a biblical practice. I know that Catholics are not the only ones who do it. It is popular in the form of contemplative prayer with many Christians -- some call it "soaking." I personally am uncomfortable with both of these practices, and I think there can be spiritual danger with both, especially the second one. People do it though, and there have been Christians in the past who have done this.
  13. Spirituality

    That is an amazing story. Thanks for sharing it. As for God not talking to guess is that He has -- you just haven't been aware of it. I believe that since He is a personal God, and created each one of us, He speaks to people in different ways, unique to them. Most people don't hear an audible voice. Those are just my thoughts.
  14. Spirituality

    Okay -- let me know when you want to resume this discussion.
  15. Hello from a waiter in AZ!

    Welcome to the site
  16. Hello :-)

    Welcome to the site.
  17. Thank you for your response. Christian men should want a woman whose first love is God. That's what I thought, too. That's why I was so surprised that he gave that comment, especially considering his profile on the dating site. Sigh. Whether or not guys prefer women wearing makeup or not seems to be a personal preference. Some want women wearing a ton of it because they think that it makes women look nice, or they think it shows that women are making an effort for them, or whatever. Others are completely against it, finding it disgusting. And then there are guys who simply do not care one way or another whether or not a woman wears makeup. I've learned that there is a lot of variation even in the eyes of many Christian men. I was shocked when that guy sent me the message. It scared me into wondering whether or not most men preferred women like that. Sometimes it seems like this is the case. Other times I realize that it is otherwise -- that there are men who don't like it, or simply do not care about it. In my opinion, not wearing much of it shouldn't be a deal breaker, but to each their own..... I'm glad that you affirmed my understanding that not all men want a woman wearing heavy makeup. It is good to know that there are still men out there who actually care about the person, and not the outer appearance so much. It is relieving to hear that not all men want materialistic women. Deep down inside, I know that is true -- it's just that sometimes it feels like men are only attracted to superficial things, like makeup and fashion and just all around materialism. And you are right that I do not want a man who is after materialistic women. Yes, I do want a guy who will respect and love me for my modesty and who will think that I am beautiful when I'm not wearing makeup. If a man cannot find a woman attractive unless she is wearing a ton of makeup, then he likes a false person. I honestly have no problem with makeup in and of itself, but I do see it as a problem if the woman doesn't think she can look good without it, or if the man doesn't think that the girl looks good without it. Makeup is meant to enhance what is already there, not make the person beautiful, as though she is not pretty without it. I personally can take it or leave it. Sometimes I wear a little bit of it just because I feel like it. Most of the time I don't wear any. It's whatever I feel like doing. But I certainly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who would think less of me because I choose not to wear it, or because I choose not to wear as much as he would like me to. Yes, I do want the right kind of guy -- it just does get discouraging sometimes.
  18. Asking for Some Support

    I'm sorry to hear that your sister is very sick, and that you are in a hard place right now. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. I hope that your sister gets better soon, and that you find some peace with whatever you are facing right now in your life.
  19. Suggest Books

    Here's my non-fiction book list: Boundaries In Dating, by Henry Cloud and John Townsend The Five Love Languages Singles Edition, by Gary Chapman The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman Boy Meets Girl, by Joshua Harris When God Writes Your Love Story, by Eric and Leslie Ludy When Dreams Come True, by Eric and Leslie Ludy Authentic Beauty, by Leslie Ludy Finding The Right One For You, by H. Norman Wright Dating & Waiting, by William P. Risk I Gave Dating A Chance, by Jeramy Clark A Woman's High Calling, by Elizabeth George A Woman After God's Own Heart, by Elizabeth George Beautiful In God's Eyes, by Elizabeth George Every Woman's Battle, by Shannon Ethridge Knight In Shining Armor, by P. B. Wilson -- warning on this one. This is generally a good book, but the author advocates too extreme a view for me regarding divorce. While I am generally against divorce, I do think that if someone cheats on you habitually, or if someone is abusive, it is okay to get a divorce. If someone is abusive, you're putting your life in danger if you stay with them. Although the author does provide a solution, I'm not sure whether or not it is always feasible. Fighting For Your Marriage, by Markman, Stanley, and Blumberg Divorce Busting, by Michele Weiner-Davis War of Words, by Paul David Tripp Everybody Wins, by Gary Chapman I have read all of these books that I've just listed, and I can attest to the fact that all of these authors advocate waiting for marriage to have sex. Most, but not quite all are Christian authors. I have included some books on marriage too, as it is good for us singles to read about marriage so that we are prepared for it.
  20. Suggest Books

    Okay, I have both fiction and non-fiction to recommend here. This will be the fiction list: The Scarlet Pimpernel, by Baroness Orczy. The main character in this story falls in love with a man who turns out to be the husband she's already married to. I just love the story -- there are some funny parts in it, and there is clean romance. Although the characters are already married, and there is no sex in the story, you get to see how they really do love one another, and it's just an enjoyable read. There are no affairs or anything. It's set during the French Revolution. Thorn In My Heart, by Liz Curtis Higgs Fair Is The Rose, by Liz Curtis Higgs Whence Came A Prince, by Liz Curtis Higgs This is a trilogy written by a Christian author who retells the story of Jacob and Essau, but really focuses in on the time when Jacob is working for Rachel and Leah's father. (All the characters have different names in the story). The author sets the story in the 1780's in Scotland. I think I remember the years correctly. Now, here's the thing -- although all of the characters are waiting until marriage to have sex, things do not work out exactly as planned. Well, they do wait, but there is some trickery and deception involved...Mistakes are made.... I do feel that I need to warn other waiters about something: Let me explain what goes on here because it's complicated. Jacob loves Rachel and plans to marry her. On the day of the wedding, Rachel is prevented from going because of the weather. Rachel and Leah's father devises a plan to have Leah say the vows to Jacob as a proxy bride. So Leah does. Then Leah is convinced that her vows, although said in her sister's name, are valid reasons for having sex with Jacob. She loves him, and she is deceived into thinking that she should visit him in the night. She does -- and Jacob thinks that it is Rose come back, and Leah thinks that Jacob knows it is her and wants her....and so they have sex. In the morning Jacob discovers it is Leah instead of Rachel.... There are a lot of twists -- but in the end the characters all learn what love is, and are faithful to one another. Leah is punished for what happened, and she repents, and things work out okay in the end. There is more I'm not saying, but I did want to talk about that wedding night because of the mistake made there. Still, other than that, the characters are moral, and they do learn from their mistakes. The series has a positive view of sex within marriage. Sex outside of marriage is frowned on, and is certainly not encouraged in this book. I really enjoyed reading this series. Grace In Thine Eyes, by Liz Curtis Higgs Again, a warning is needed. This story is a retelling of the story of Jacob's daughter Dinah, also set in Scotland. If you know the biblical story, then you will know that she is raped. Obviously, she herself does not want to have sex before marriage, but it is taken from her. This is going to be heavy subject matter, so be warned. I'll let it up to the moderators whether or not they want to include this on the list. I'm suggesting it because the story does portray sex outside of marriage as wrong, and it does deal with a reality that many women do have to face. I imagine that there are many women who have intended to wait until marriage to have sex, only to have it taken from them. The book is not graphic. The author includes just enough detail that we know what is going on. . Here Burns My Candle, by Liz Curtis Higgs Mine Is The Night, by Liz Curtis Higgs These books are a retelling of the book of Ruth from the Bible, and it is set in Scotland as well, but a little bit earlier than the Jacob stories. I don't think these are as well written as the Jacob stories, but they are still good. The main character starts out being married to one man who isn't faithful to her, but she is faithful to him. He is killed in battle, and she mourns for awhile, and then meets a really great guy who she falls in love with. He also falls in love with her. Their romance is moral, and they wait until they are married to have sex, as do the other couples in this story (well, except for the main character's first husband -- but we don't read the sex scenes, and his behavior is portrayed in a negative way.) I will also include one warning here -- there is a character who tries to rape the main character, but he doesn't succeed. She is able to push him away and stop him. She send him packing. This part seemed unnecessary to the plot to me, but it isn't graphic at all. So just be warned about that. Books by Tolkien: The Silmarillion The Hobbit The Fellowship of the Ring The Two Towers The Return of the King The series isn't really based on a love story, but the love stories that are in them are clean and moral. Aragorn and Arwen fell in love a long time ago, and waited years and years before they finally marry. They do not have sex before their wedding. The whole story is fun and entertaining. The Love Comes Softly books, by Janette Oke: Love Comes Softly Love's Long Journey Love's Enduring Promise Love's Abiding Joy Love's Unfolding Dream Love Finds A Home Love Takes Wing Love's Unending Legacy She is a Christian author, and these are the books that the movies are loosely based on. I say loosely because the only movie that even came close to following the book was Love Comes Softly. All the other movies only had a few character names and titles in common with the books. The books and the movies are two completely different stories. However, like the movies, all of the romances in these stories are moral. There is no sex outside of marriage, and there is no pressure for the characters to engage in sex. This is a good series. You might as well include all of the Harry Potter books -- there is no pre-marital sex in them. The furthest any of the characters go is making out. There is nothing inappropriate going on. Oh, and also include Emma, by Jane Austen and also Sense and Sensibility. Those are all the fictional books that I can think of right now.
  21. Suggest Movies & TV Shows

    Oh, I just found the place where the list of TV shows and movies are listed to vote on. Some of my suggestions are already on the list Cool. I'd also like to add Doctor Who -- anything Tenth Doctor or before (so of the new ones seasons 1-4). I haven't seen much of the Eleventh Doctor, and what I have seen of him I don't like. In seasons 1-4, so maybe you will want to list each of these seasons separately in the list.....there is a character named Rose who falls in love with the Doctor, and the Doctor loves her. They never have sex or get physical in any way, but anyone watching it can see the love between them. I feel like I do have to say that Rose left a boyfriend to go and travel with the Doctor. There is a suggestion made in season 1 towards the end that Rose would have been willing to have pre-marital sex with her boyfriend, but they don't end up doing that because he tells her he is dating someone else. I cannot say that Rose is a committed waiter, but I do think that her love and relationship with the Doctor is clean and moral. So it isn't exactly a waiter show, but it is a fun show, and it does not feature the main characters as having sex outside of marriage. I think the author is neutral on the subject -- not promoting it directly, but not speaking against it either. I don't think the writers would have a problem with it, but they see Doctor Who as more of a family show, so they didn't have that going on. Like I said, I don't know what's going on in seasons 5+, so I cannot recommend them. Oh, and there is another version of the movie Emma, which is a Miramax one with Gwyneth Paltrrow -- I'm not sure of the year, but I think it's older than the others listed on the TV show/movie voting list. I'm not looking at the list now, but I did notice that individual titles to the Love Comes Softly series were if you haven't already listed these, then please include them: Love Comes Softly Love's Enduring Promise Love's Long Journey Oh, and I have to list The Lord of the Rings movies as well: Fellowship of the Ring The Two Towers Return of the King There is a love story between Aragorn and Arwen that I just love. It's a fun story, and there is no sexual immorality or premarital sex anywhere in the story. Granted, the main story isn't a love story between two characters, but most people will enjoy these movies. And if I'm going to include those, then I might as well also include the Star Wars movies. The Phantom Menace Attack of the Clones Revenge of the Sith A New Hope The Empire Strikes Back Return of the Jedi The love stories in these movies -- between Anakin and Padme, and Leia and Han are clean. There is no pre-marital sex. The farthest anyone goes is kissing. Although Anakin is obsessed with Padme, and I wouldn't say that his love is healthy the way he expresses himself, he doesn't sleep with her before his wedding. Also, viewers must excuse the skimpy clothing that they put Leia towards the beginning of Return of the Jedi. You might as well include the Harry Potter movies as well, as the furthest any character goes in romantic relationships is kissing. These are fun stories, too. All right -- that seems to be all I can think of right now. I'm sure that there are more.
  22. Suggest Movies & TV Shows

    The Love Comes Softly movies -- they are set in the past, the books that they are loosely based on were written by a Christian author, and there is no pre-marital sex. All of the characters wait until marriage, and are very honoring towards one another. Good values. I'm a big fan of PBS and all of the British shows that PBS shows. Most of what they show on Masterpiece is moral, although there are a few shows they have shown that I would not recommend due to the lack of morals on the part of the main characters. Right now my local PBS station is showing Midsummer Murders on Thursdays, which are fun mysteries. The main characters are moral. It's the bad guys who are often immoral, but the show does not portray that kind of behavior as being positive. They've shown things like Inspector Lewis, Miss Marple, Poirot, and Foyle's War, all of which generally show the main characters as being moral. Again, bad guys might not be, but it isn't positive... Another PBS Masterpiece show -- Downton Abbey -- Now, there are a couple of things of the main characters, Mary did have pre-marital sex once. However, I consider that time to be near rape. The reason I say this is because this guy who was staying at her family estate made unwelcome advances towards her earlier, and she told him no. Then he had one of the servants lead him to her bedroom at night, and just showed up. She told him no, but he wouldn't listen to her. In the end she was willing, but it might have been because she didn't feel she had any other choice. Anyway, this haunts her for the rest of season 1 and 2, and there are consequences for what happened. So this wasn't exactly seen as a positive thing. Also, Mary's father was making inappropriate advances towards a maid, and she was making advances towards him too. Although they kissed and made out, he ultimately breaks it off with her before they undress. She resigns her position and leaves the house afterwards. This too is seen as a bad thing. All other romances in the show have the characters waiting until marriage or have them ultimately honor wedding vows that they have made. So, this is why I would include it in the list. The show also portrays marital sex in a positive way -- as seen between Mary and the man that she eventually marries.
  23. Why DO we always dig the bad boys?

    I personally don't dig the bad boys, but I have seen other women go after them. I don't know why exactly -- except maybe they don't know what they want in a husband -- what they really want. Maybe they are immature and aren't looking for a husband yet, but just someone who is fun. They haven't had enough experience yet, or thought it through enough to realize that bad boys do not make as good husbands.
  24. Thanks for answering Mike's question there. I really hadn't seen enough of the show to really know much about the character. I'd just seen a few clips -- that one episode included.
  25. Husbandly Duties

    (These aren't ranked in any special order. I'm just listing them as they come to me): 1.) I would expect him to be faithful to me -- to not be flirting with other women, and certainly not do anything more than that. I wouldn't want him fantasizing about other women. But I want to be his both emotionally and physically and in every other way. I don't want him having a wandering eye. This also includes porn. I don't want him to be looking at images of other women for his sexual pleasure. So, right now, I would want to see someone who was able to stay faithful to his future wife now-- by waiting until marriage and not be trying to whet his sexual appetite. 2.) I would like him to be compassionate towards all people, not just me. This means that he should act compassionately now, before we are in a relationship. He should treat others with kindness, and shouldn't be a jerk to others. 3.) I want to marry a Christian man -- I want Jesus to be the center of his life. I also would like to see him living out his faith. 4.) I want to marry someone who could be my best friend -- that means that he has to act like a friend. 5.) He has to be interested in me as a person, and not just my appearance or superficial qualities. I want to know that he cares about me, and that he enjoys being with me, and that he is interested in me and what I have to say. 6.) Although this is often thought of as something that is important for a guy to have from his woman -- I do want him to respect me, too. I don't want him looking down on me, or thinking that I am less than him, and I certainly wouldn't want him to mistreat me. 7.) I want a man who is honest with me and is willing to be open with me about the things that are important to him.