Innocence

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Everything posted by Innocence

  1. As I've been talking to others lately about waiting and virginity, I've realized that many have different views on what constitutes waiting and virginity. So I would like to know what you all think! First off, I looked up the definition of a virgin, and dictionary definitions state that a virgin is someone who has never had sexual intercourse. The dictionary definition of sexual intercourse is the act of a man inserting his penis into a woman's vagina. Based on those two definitions, it appears to me that a virgin would then be someone who has never had penis-in-vagina sex. How many of you agree with this definition? Here are my questions to you: 1. If you never had penis-in-vagina sex before, but did engage in everything else but that (such as all the things involved in foreplay), would you still consider yourself a virgin? 2. If you met someone who is a virgin but has done "the other things", would that be a deal breaker for you in seeing that person as marriage material? 3. If you met someone who is a virgin but has done "the other things" BUT regrets them and is now waiting to do those "other things" in marriage, would you see that person as marriage material? I look forward to hearing what all of you think!
  2. Hi everyone! Since I know that most of us on here are WTM, I know how that tends to make it much more difficult for us to find someone in our circle of friends who is a potential spouse. Therefore, I have been wondering how many of you, if you found someone online who you really liked and who met all of your requirements for a husband or wife, but happened to live far away, would you be interested in having a long distance relationship with that person? Why or why not?
  3. I realized that there is a topic almost identical to this in the Ask the Guys section. However, I wanted to resurrect the topic since that last thread was very old, and also to open up the discussion to girls as well as guys. So here is the scenario, and this is a true story that actually happened: Innocence is a virgin and dates and falls deeply in love with Alexander. Alexander is not a virgin and told Innocence that information near the beginning of the relationship. Innocence is initially okay with that and the relationship continues. Many months later, Alexander introduces Innocence to one of his single female friends, Amanda. Now, Amanda also happens to be a former sex partner of Alexander's, but Alexander doesn't tell Innocence that. Alexander has a best friend, Charles, who happens to be a virgin. Charles is single and looking for a wife, so Alexander thinks it would be a great idea if he set up his best friend (Charles) with Amanda (his single female friend who was also an ex partner). So Charles and Amanda start dating and eventually get serious with one another. Charles also does not know that Amanda is a former sex partner of Alexander's. Eventually, Innocence happens to ask Alexander a seemingly inconsequential question related to Alexander's sexual past, and the truth comes out as to who Amanda is (a former sexual partner with Alexander). As a result of this shocking revelation, the truth also spreads to Charles, who finds out from Alexander (his best friend) that he has been set up with one of his former sex partners. How would you feel if you were Innocence in this situation? How would you feel if you were Charles? If you were Innocence or Charles, would you want to stay in the relationship knowing that sex in the past between these friends had happened? What about asking to cut friendship ties because of the sexual history? If you were Innocence, would you want Alexander to cut friendship ties with Amanda and his best friend (because now the best friend, Charles, is serious with Amanda and thus they're now a couple in which they can start to be seen as one person). What about if you were Charles? Would there be a desire to cut ties with your best friend, Alexander, because he set you up with a former sex partner of his and didn't tell you this at first? Looking forward to hearing all of your opinions and how you would react in this situation.
  4. @Parrot I do think it's great to have high standards, however, the disappointing truth is that the more standards we set, the fewer our options become . Especially as people get older, most of the quality people have already gotten married and so that leaves very few people left that are available. I'm not advocating for lowering standards, I'm just saying that with high standards, comes the realization that it will be much harder to find a person out there who meets them all.
  5. Salutations!

    Welcome, Parrot!
  6. I understand where you're coming from, Parrot. After this relationship that I've been in, it has certainly caused me to redefine some of the deal breakers for a potential boyfriend that I used to have. Sadly, this recent ex boyfriend will be the last under my old set of deal breakers and anyone after him will have to meet the new set that I have. Interesting how you say that, because I have thought about that myself as well! I have wished that all us virgins would just marry each other so that we could all be happy that we found someone who values sex to the same degree that we do. I do feel that the virgin dating pool gets smaller and smaller anytime a virgin decides to marry a non virgin, which just makes it that much harder for those that absolutely require a virgin to find someone in that category.
  7. I will have to admit that you are right, Geraldine. I do think that I am a naive person. I was really sheltered by my parents when I was growing up, and while that is a good thing, it has also made me unaware of a lot of hideous things that go on in this world. People who have interacted with me in person have said that I do possess an innocence (there's a reason why I chose the display name that I have on here lol ) about me and that in certain situations I am not very knowledgeable about things that others would normally expect me to be familiar/experienced with. Thank you for posting that article link! According to the article, I am a prime target for attracting people like these . I possess the 3 Ns mentioned: nice, naive, and non-confrontational. I have realized over the years, that I can take A LOT of criticism from people and when it comes to arguments, I can handle someone shouting at me and I still have the patience to remain calm. As desirable a trait as I believe that would be, it's sad that there are people out there who want to exploit such traits. Thank you for all your words of encouragement dear sister, and thank you for your prayers as well.
  8. I am the same way as you are. I would want to know every detail about my boyfriend's history with exes, and if he can't discuss all the details about it, then that certainly won't help me build trust in him. I believe trust is the foundation of relationships and if a person lies and can't be trusted, then the relationship has nothing to stand on. I also feel that in a relationship, there should be transparency between the two people, and that is why I am one of those who wants to know all the details pertaining to my boyfriend's history. Thank you for the good wishes. I am sorry that you've had your heart broken, too. I am glad that you're finally beginning to feel okay and that you are open to finding someone again. You have my best wishes for finding the perfect one for you.
  9. Greetings Everyone

    I just joined this site as of yesterday and am thrilled to know that a site like this exists. I have been lurking around here for a couple of weeks reading posts and looking at profiles as a guest . I finally mustered up the courage to join in myself... I guess I'm a little shy when it comes to public forums . I am excited about getting to meet everyone on here, and even though I haven't talked to many of you yet, just knowing that all of you exist who share similar views on WTM is in and of itself so encouraging to me!
  10. Well said, Vince! I couldn't have expressed it any better myself. I agree with everything you wrote. Lol! Well now you've gotten me curious about the other very dumb things you've heard Well anyway, I really do thank you for your words and your encouragement . All of the comments on this thread so far have definitely helped lift my spirits and have given me some peace about the whole situation .
  11. Hello!

    @heyitsme22 and @misskayanne88 A warm welcome to both of you!! I hope you find this forum as encouraging as I have!
  12. Yes, I have left Alexander. I broke up with him in April, so the breakup is relatively recent. We were together for a little over 4.5 years, but this problem that I am telling you about came up about a year after us knowing each other, so I've been dealing with this sexual past situation for 3.5 years.
  13. I am so glad you said that. He has made me feel that all this time, I'm the one with the unhealthy feelings because I want Amanda and Charles (because Charles and Amanda eventually got married... and that's another very sad story because of how it eventually ended up in divorce from something I heard that Amanda did, but I digress) out of Alexander's life. Believe me, the reminders sure were there. I really feel like an emotional trauma victim because of this relationship because anything associated with Amanda that would come up in my everyday life would remind me of her. I also have had many bad dreams about her and Alexander and even Charles, too, and some of those dreams have made me wake up with unsettled feelings and tears in my eyes. I've also expressed the "avoidance" behaviors that PTSD sufferers have in which I have avoided actions and places that have images/traumas attached to them. So yeah, it was bad. Hmmm... I never thought of it that way... I guess in my innocence and inexperience with guys, I didn't think it was emotional abuse, but I guess it's always harder to see that when you're directly involved in the situation and not seeing from an outside perspective. His comparing might have been one of the subconscious reasons I stayed with him for so long... because I wanted to try to have the strength that Charles had to be okay about what happened in the past and put it behind me and display that Christ like behavior of remembering the sins no more.
  14. Yes! That's what I would think, too! One thing Alexander has told me before, is that he hates it when he sees other couples in which the man is so possessive of his girlfriend that he doesn't want her talking to ANY man and basically smothers her freedom in a controlling sort of way. So I think in an effort to avoid being labeled as that kind of man, he's taken it really far in the other direction to where he expects his girl to have the freedom to talk and hang out with whomever she wants, and expects that same kind of freedom in return for himself. Both extremes are undesirable, in my opinion, and so I agree that a healthy jealousy right in the middle is ideal... one in which both people have the freedom to talk to members of the opposite sex as friends, but also one in which both people are jealous of exes and anyone who is romantically interested in them. In that case, I think talking to exes and spouses of the exes should be nonexistent. I actually had a boyfriend before Alexander who went even a step further than this. He once told me that I could have sex with other men as long as it was "meaningless sex" (for him, that meant sex without any emotional investment) and he wouldn't care. I should have slapped him after saying that. Yes, stuff like this and also what Alexander has said have definitely made me feel so devalued and unimportant. I felt that with both of these boyfriends, the precious gift of my virginity that I would be saving for them if they became my husband, would not even be cherished. As a result, (even though I still have Biblical reasons for saving my virginity) I have wondered why I should even save my virginity for my husband if he's not even going to value the precious gift I would be offering to him. It's just sad to me that all the boyfriends I've ever had and all men I've gone on dates with have just not even cared about the jewel that I'm saving for that special one.
  15. @Geraldine, @redgrapes, and @Invincible Thank you all SO VERY MUCH for your encouragement in saying that I reacted to this situation in a perfectly normal way, and that my response has nothing to do with being less Christian-like. Vince, I like what you said in your last post about righteous jealousy. I believe I experienced that with Alexander which explains why I wanted all of his sex partners out of his life if they weren't already because I wanted to know that there would be no reminders of past experiences that he's had that would take away from us being able to focus on one another completely. Here is why I believe I was criticized so much for not being able to overcome the situation. Charles was eventually able to get over what happened between Alexander and Amanda, and he was able to carry on his relationship with Amanda AND still maintain his best friend status with Alexander. So here is a virgin that was able to cope with what happened, and as a result, I got compared to Charles . Alexander and all of his other friends (including my best female friend) said that if Charles can overcome it and express that Christ-like acceptance, then I can overcome it and also express that Christ-like acceptance. Alexander would constantly say that because Charles got over it, and I wasn't, that I was CHOOSING to stay hurt over the matter! As if I could "choose" to have my feelings hurt or not... I can't tell you how deeply that word cut into me because he just refused to see how the hurt is something I couldn't control. I told him repeatedly how I wanted the images, reminders, and bad dreams of what he and Amanda did to go away just as much as he wanted that for me, but I just didn't know how to do that. Many times he would just say that I have to "deal" with it and "choose" not to let it hurt me. And every time he pointed to Charles as the example to follow, that just made me feel even worse as a Christian in being able to forgive and forget. So that is why I think so many people were against me in how I handled things.
  16. Thank you for letting me know that! Yes, there are times when I think I did tolerate much more than others would if they were in this situation... Since the time that disastrous revelation occurred, I stayed with him for 3.5 years after that trying to cope with the trauma from the situation because I really wanted to be successful in getting rid of the images, reminders, and dreams that I became plagued with as a result. I gave him chance after chance to be truthful about his sexual past after this occurrence, but he broke my trust regarding this area two more times many months later. That is actually the surprising part! I've used that very same scenario during the arguments we've had over this situation, and Alexander has said that if I ever had sex with any of my exes, he would be totally fine if they were still friends in my life! Matter of fact, he actually ENCOURAGES me to stay in touch with my other ex! So that basically takes away my platform of argument from that angle because he's fine if I had exes in my life still as friends... I guess since that's how he feels, it's no wonder he thinks it's not a big deal to still stay friends with his exes that he had sex with and instead thinks that I'm the one having the problem.
  17. Yes, I really felt bad for Charles when he first found out. If I were him, I would have been deeply hurt that my best friend had tried to set me up with his ex because I would have seen it as him tossing me the leftovers of the meal he has already had. In other words, because he didn't want the girl, then he just passes her on to me, without even telling me beforehand that he's already been with her! That's how I would have felt if I were Charles. That was definitely one of the most painful parts of this whole nightmare situation . Charles and I were never told before we met Amanda that she was a former sex partner of Alexander's. I got to actually see and talk with Amanda through Skype a few times all the while thinking she was just a casual friend of Alexander's. Once I found out who she really was, you can only imagine how betrayed and devastated I felt when Alexander admitted to me that he didn't want to tell me that she was a former sex partner. Having already personally interacted with Amanda without knowing who she really was, was what began my emotional traumatization, which only got deeper and deeper the longer Alexander struggled to keep her in his life against my wishes.
  18. Lol! Okay, sorry everyone for making this sound confusing with all the persons. I actually did have a debate with myself as to whether to use fictitious names or the person label approach. I guess I made the wrong choice haha, and so Geraldine, I will keep in mind what you suggested about using fictitious names in the future for complicated scenarios like this one. Well, let me try to fix this by adding some names so that perhaps this scenario will be easier to understand: Person A: Innocence (I'll admit that I was part of this disastrous scenario) Person B: Alexander Person C: Amanda Person D: Charles I also edited my first post, so now you all can read it with names instead lol. Amen to that Vince! I am comforted that you feel that way because I also view sex as such a deep physical and emotional act of oneness (I personally feel it's as if you are sharing your souls with one another), and so like you, it baffles me how people can sleep with one another and still be friends as if nothing ever happened. I think you are right in that it boils down to there still being a connection between those persons, or they don't have a high regard for sex and so that's why it's not a big deal to them that it happened between them in the past. Actually this was the argument that everyone that knew about this situation gave me. In this story all four of us are Christians. Even though I know there has been forgiveness, I still could not get over the hurt of what happened and just knowing that they still wanted to be friends was more than I could handle. I would be able to handle them parting ways on good terms though, but just staying friends, I couldn't, and believe me, I did try. There was one time that I actually did see that girl in person that he had sex with, and I struggled very hard to keep back tears, and after that for the next few weeks, I couldn't even hug my boyfriend without thinking of what he had done with her. So I'm wondering if this is just one of those relationship situations in which this is more than I can bear, but then I do feel unsure if I am being Christian like enough and many people have already made me feel like an inadequate, unforgiving Christian because I cannot handle this scenario. I like your approach to finding out if someone is a virgin, HeWhoWaits! I might borrow that idea when I need to ask that question to future guys who are interested in me since I also want to be with a virgin. I've had that concern as well before and wondered how I could get a man to be truthful about his sexual status since there is no other way to conclusively know or prove it other than his word. Since I know that many women out there actually want a man with experience, I've thought about posing the question as if I'm one of those women so that I can encourage him to be open about his sexual experience if he gets the idea that I see it as a good thing. I thought about asking him something like, "How experienced are you sexually?" If a man is a virgin and is courageous and truthful enough to tell me that, then I know I can consider him as possible marriage material if he still says the truth while thinking that he's giving me an answer that I may not be looking for. I agree! The person's future spouse should be the priority, not the friendship with the exes. This was something that my boyfriend and I struggled with for years after I found out that he was still friends with this girl he had sex with. He still wanted to cling so strongly to friendships because he didn't believe that ties should be cut simply because a mistake was made in the past that God forgave them for. He said that no matter how hurt I was, that it doesn't justify him letting go of two friends that remind me of his past and bring up images of sex. It made me feel so worthless and devalued, especially because he wanted me to be his wife.
  19. Retroactive jealousy

    I know I'm coming to this thread very late after it was started, but if you ever visit the forum again, Lavande, and look at this thread, please know that you have my deepest sympathy. I sincerely hope that you have found healing and happiness since this tragedy happened. What happened to you is something that truly scares me and I worry about something like this happening to me after I am already married. I had a similar situation occur in a past relationship in which my boyfriend at the time did not tell me everything about his sexual past. I later found out more information when I had already thought I knew all there was to know. He had told me I knew everything, and so I felt so deceived and betrayed when I found out later that there was more that he had not said. I became traumatized as a result and I experienced the exact same thing you have. I had images in my mind of all the sexual things he did with his former partners, and I even had nightmares of his partners (I remember one time the dream was so bad I woke up and realized I had tears in my eyes). I also went so far as to avoid places and situations that would remind me of those girls in his past. I sincerely tried for three and a half years to get rid of the images that would come into my mind of the times he had sex before, but I could never make them go away. I truly know how you feel in that finding out something like this totally changes how you look at your husband and how you feel like your dream of having the marriage you wanted is gone forever. You have my thoughts and prayers. I hope that you have been able to come to a decision that brings you peace and that is within God's will for your life.
  20. New Member

    Welcome LaMetrius! Hope you enjoy being a part of the forum!
  21. I think the first thing you should figure out is what your definition of virginity is. If it is the dictionary definition, then yes, you can still consider yourself a virgin because you haven't had actual intercourse yet. If you think a person loses his or her virginity when they engage in other intimate acts that isn't actual sex, then unfortunately you wouldn't be able to call yourself a virgin anymore. I am a very technical person, and so from my own personal perspective, I would still see you as a virgin. I personally feel like dictionary definitions become useless when people start adding on additional meanings of what a word is to them. If people made up their own interpretations of words, despite what the dictionary defines them as, then language and communication as we know it would cease because there are no agreed upon meanings of words anymore, and that is essential for proper communication. But I digress. I think you could still call yourself a virgin, but with purity that has been compromised. From my perspective, engaging in other intimate acts that are not actual sex does not constitute a loss of virginity, but it does constitute a reduction in purity. But here's the encouraging part: you still have purity left . You still have the purity of inexperience with actual intercourse that you still can save for your spouse! I'm a Christian, and the way I see it is that actual sex is the physical act (in addition to the spiritual act of the marriage vows before God) that makes a couple become "one" (I mean, without getting too graphic, if you think about it, the man's and woman's part were designed for such a fit). You still haven't done that, and that is something to be thankful for! So while you've done the "other stuff", you still have that most important intimate act for her . (And by the way, even though all of us should still avoid doing the "other stuff" to maintain our purity, I do commend you that despite going as far as you did, that you were still able to stay strong and hold back from taking that final step, especially in the heat of the moment which I'm sure is very hard for men.) Ultimately, I think you should focus on being thankful for what you still do have, rather than what you don't have, and that might help you to feel better about yourself. This mindset might also help with any girl you meet who's done things similar to what you've done. If you can view things from the perspective that (if she also has done "everything but") she still has something saved for her future husband, then that might help you to be accepting of her. I do agree with Vince in that whatever standard you set for others, you must also set for yourself. So if you can't accept a girl who's gone beyond kissing, for example, then you shouldn't expect the girl to accept that you've gone further than kissing. I also don't think it's fair to "demand" that the girl absolutely must have a past that is less than yours. Since you say that, "my mate having a past is still something I can't handle emotionally," think of what your mate will have to handle when she learns of your past. If you meet a girl who has a past like yours and are worried that you can't handle it emotionally (perhaps because of worry that she'll compare, or perhaps because you'll imagine what she did with the other guy), here's something you can try because this is a mindset that I tried to have since, as a virgin, I have dated non virgin guys before. When I was with these men, and when I learned of how many girlfriends they've had and some of the things they did with them, I naturally worried about how I would compare. So what I tried to do is figure out in my head what I could do as a wife if we were to get married that would outdo whatever these other girls did with my man. That way, there would be no comparison since I would be his best. I don't know if this will help you or not, but I just thought I'd mention it since that "outdoing" sort of mindset was what I used for certain things back when I used to date non virgin men. Best wishes in your search for "the one"!
  22. New Members-Girls Only

    Welcome PinkGnomie13! Happy to have you here
  23. @HeWhoWaits Yes, it is true that the couple in a long distance relationship should try to make arrangements to be in the same place. I'm not saying that a couple should perpetually be in a long distance relationship all their life. But just because they may not be able to be together regularly for a few years, doesn't mean that the relationship is doomed to fail, as you made it sound in your first post (see Vince's example of how his parents successfully held together a 3 year long distance relationship). Another example I just happened to remember is with a professor I had in college. She is from South Korea and her husband is also South Korean. He lives and works in South Korea, and she works in the United States. She once said that she has been in the States for the past few years (I think she said 3, if I remember correctly) and has only been able to visit her husband once or twice each year. She also said that they have been married 26 years. I was amazed that she and her husband were able to do that, and so this is just another example of how a long distance relationship can be successful. And in my own relationships, yes, there eventually was relocation on my part to be in the same cities as my boyfriends. The long distance part came first with both my boyfriends and the local part followed later. With one of my relationships, the long distance part lasted almost 2 years, one of which was spent with him being halfway around the world in Kuwait and during that time I only saw him twice within that year. But we made the long distance part of our relationship work, and so that is why I personally don't see long distance relationships in such a negative view. Like I said in the beginning of the above paragraph, I don't think long distance relationships should be the only type of relationship a couple experiences, physical time together is important, but I will venture to guess that many people, when they think of long distance relationships, expect that it's not a forever sort of thing. Sure, if there is absolutely NO physical time together ever, then yes, it probably has a high chance of failure. In my post before this one, I did say... I believe that experiencing both types of relationships (the long distance and the local) with the person you're with will allow you to experience that person and learn about him or her in different ways that if you just did one or the other. Thank you for sharing that video! What a sweet and romantic love story! I really enjoyed watching it.
  24. @HeWhoWaits I ask simply out of curiosity as to how everyone on here feels about long distance relationships. I personally feel that we will end up waiting forever if we limit ourselves to just searching for like-minded people in our local area. And yes, all the relationships I have ever been in have been long distance ones for the majority of the time. As a matter of fact, the relationships were more successful when they were long distance than when they eventually became local. I say this in the sense that the relationships were able to grow faster during the time that distance was involved because, as Invincible said, greater emotional intimacy was achieved. You fall in love faster and deeper, and there's a stronger connection between the two people in a shorter amount of time. Since I have experienced both sides (the long distance and the local), I will say the feelings are totally different. I know you say that physical time together is crucial, and I agree with you, to a point. But the basis of a relationship should never be the physical connection, it should be the emotional and spiritual connection. Long distance relationships put the focus on that because there is no way for physical time together to happen on a regular basis. Furthermore, long distance relationships will actually ENHANCE the quality of the of the physical time together, whenever it does happen, because the couple will cherish every moment in each other's arms. In a local relationship, it is much easier for the couple to take the physical time for granted because it is so much more readily available. Also, I've noticed from my own experience that when my relationships were local, there was much less sharing of thoughts, feelings, etc. because the focus was either on the physical aspects of cuddling, for example, or on whatever activity was planned for the date. Communication was not at the forefront, like it is in long distance relationships. I'm not saying that one should never have local relationships, but I do personally think a relationship that experiences both types is a stronger, and more lasting relationship. Now let me ask you the same question. Have you been in long distance relationships before? If so, what's been your experience?
  25. @Invincible Those are GREAT reasons for favoring a long distance relationship! As someone who's been in some myself, I can personally say that I've experienced almost all of those 6 things you listed. Thank you for describing them so eloquently . And don't worry, you're not alone in reason #6 . I've had family strongly disagree about one of my relationships before, and that just brought me in closer solidarity with my boyfriend and it did feel quite romantic to know that we were together against the odds. It fostered emotional closeness and it definitely tested our resolve to be with each other in the face of adversity. Thank you so much, Vince, for sharing your parents' story!!! WHAT AN AMAZING STORY OF DEVOTION!!! I'm sure it must have been ten times harder to cultivate a long distance relationship back in your parents' time with only handwritten letters to rely on. The fact that your parents did that for 3 years successfully to where the relationship culminated into a lasting marriage is truly remarkable. Thank you again for sharing that! P.S. And thank you for writing the "entire Library of Congress worth of books" . The content you included was well worth the length.