Naturally

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  1. Theoretical situation: Jane and Adam are married. Jane works in advertising and landed a major project. Jane works on the project emphatically which sees her arriving home at midnight and leaving for work at 6am for two months straight. Adam works too although barely gets to see Jane in the evenings and on the weekends and when he does she’s always stressed and frustrated about her project. Adam and Jane haven’t had sex in the last two months and he feels disconnected from her both physically and emotionally while Jane has been too stressed with work to notice. Adam discussed this several times with Jane over the last two months although the discussions often ended in an argument about how Adam doesn’t support her in her job and how he doesn’t understand how important it is to her. Jane is to present her project at a large event which includes dinner and mingling with all members of the company including the executives and clients. Three days before this ostentatious event Jane and Adam fell into another argument about the lack of intimacy in their relationship. Jane shouts that it’s only temporary and that if he really loved her he would be considerate in this stressful time in her life and understand why she’s been too exhausted to get in the mood. Adam shouts back that she’s never in the mood, and that he’s consistently helped out at home while she’s been working and that if she really loved him she would make an effort. Adam slept on the couch that night and for the next three days both Jane and Adam have been stubbornly ignoring each other. The morning of her event Jane and Adam still weren’t speaking. Jane really wanted Adam to come to her event as they planned weeks ago but she wasn’t sure if he was still going to go, following their argument. Jane really wanted Adam to come so he could see the result of all her work over the last two months. Partners were also invited to the event and it was important to Jane to have Adam by her side. Swallowing her pride, Jane mustered up the courage to ask Adam whether he would come tonight. She sheepishly walked into the bedroom where he was getting dressed for work. She stood quietly for a moment until Adam noticed her. Tying his tie in the mirror he saw Jane in the background and after 3 days of ignoring his presence he wondered what inspired this bold move. Jane waited until Adam turned around when she asked dryly “are you still coming tonight?” Your move, fellas. If you were Adam, what would be your response and what would you do?
  2. Eva and Zac have been married for 5 years and have two young children. Lately Zac has felt that he and Eva are drifting apart. It became more apparent to Zac after they had their second child about a year ago. He can’t figure out what to do to make it better. He’s scared that his wife has stopped loving him since they had kids and uses his traveling for work, among other things, as a way to justify them drifting apart. Zac feels his value as a person is based solely on how he is as a father. He feels like he and Eva are not even married anymore, just two people who live together and take care of the kids. Zac admits he’s not a very good father since he has to travel a lot for work. That's the big issue now. He admits he has to make some changes to stay home more so that he can be with the kids. As the sole breadwinner, working in a senior position in a field where his skills don't naturally translate to other professions, he’s having a hard time finding another job. Especially since they moved to Eva’s small hometown to be close to her family. At work, Zac feels people value his opinion and listen to what he has to say. Although at home he says his wife throws tantrums calling him "selfish idiot" and calls his explanations for being away so much "bad excuses". Zac says Eva seems to genuinely believe that he would prefer to be away from her and their two kids and it's made her resent him. They haven't had sex in at least 14 months and if he brings it up she shuts him down immediately, saying something like "The way things are, I'm not at all interested in sex." Zac loves his current job and doesn’t really want to start a new career in a new field, but he will do it if it means a secure income and a happier home life but he’s scared that it won't get better. Since they aren't romantic at all anymore (with the exception of a kiss goodnight or possibly a hug after a bad fight) he’s terrified that "the job issue" is just a placeholder for something much worse, that she doesn't love him anymore and that will become painfully obvious if he quit his job. He’s at a loss and every day that goes by they seem to drift more apart and fight more frequently. Let’s kick this off so we can operate on this mess. What are your thoughts on what’s happening here? Does Eva have reason to be behaving the way she is? Are Zac’s concerns valid?
  3. Hey everyone, What do you plan to do if you never find your "one"? That is, if you never encounter your perfect-for-you virgin partner. Will you loosen some of your 'requirements' or, for lack of a better word, lower your standards in order to expand your target range thereby increasing your chances of finding a partner even though they may not be what you truly desire? Will you give up the WTM prophecy and engage in non-marital sex so as to have the experience before you die? Or are you willing to never experience sexual intercourse in your life should you never marry? In answer to my own question, if I don't encounter my perfect-for-me partner, I have no qualms about never experiencing sexual intercourse in my lifetime. It's all or nothing with me. What about you?
  4. 1. Does being called a virgin make you feel bad about yourself? Has it ever? 2. Have you ever been teased for it? What happened? How'd it make you feel? 3. Do you even care what people think? why/why not? 4. Did you ever feel it was a pejorative term during your teenage years? Do you feel the same way about the term now? I'm interested in how you feel about the term 'virgin' and if you were ever made to feel less than by others for being one. I went to an all-girls Catholic high school and grew up in a bubble of innocence. It was only 4 years ago (21 years old) that I actually learned sex was a thing. Due to the world I grew up in, I was never teased or made to feel bad for being a virgin - not now and nor as a teenager - and perhaps for this reason I harbour no negative feeling towards the title 'virgin'. I am not proud I am a virgin and nor am I ashamed, rather I'm apathetic to the term. How about you?
  5. Don't understand guys

    1) Why can't guys be friends with girls they like? A guy who was really interested in me cut all ties after a year because I wasn't in a place to go out with him. 2) Why do guys think that when they're "friend-zoned" they'll have zero chance of ever getting with her. 3) What are some other reasons why a guy wouldn't want to be friends with a girl he's interested in?
  6. I thought it would be really interesting and fun to learn about the type of person we're each attracted to by sharing our character crushes. This is different from celebrity crush - no vanity or superficiality allowed here! Give us an idea of the type of person you're attracted to by providing a recognizable example. It could be a character in a film or a tv show. The idea is that it's not based on the real-life actor but the character he/she plays in the film or show. E.g. A character where you were attracted to him/her as a partner based on a particular characteristic or attitude or behaviour or demeanor or personality etc. I'll go first! Mine are: Brian Bedford (played by Dylan McDermott) - Miracle on 34th street Jeff Daly (played by Mark Ruffalo) - Rumour has it Matthew Crawley (played by Dan Stevens) - Downton Abbey Paul Sutton (played by Keanu Reeves) - A walk in the clouds Fritz Howard (played by Jon Tenney) - The Closer Joel Graham (played by Sam Jaeger) - Parenthood Series So do you have any character crushes? Share them if you do and what it is about their character that attracts or intrigues you.
  7. This terrifies me that you are so openly giving what little secrets we have left to the dark side!!!!!!!!! You're going to completely disrupt the balance of power by telling them this... Please, delete,delete,delete,delete,delete! (haha jk...not serious) I love that we can have this power and influence. I think you've made some very good points revelatory of the complexity of the relationship dynamic between a husband and wife. This catch-22 is very real and prevalent. I've seen it in my friends' marriages and the cause of its perpetuation? Pride.
  8. True. A woman who doesn't feel loved outside the bedroom can't feel loved inside the bedroom, and any attempt by the husband for sex will make her feel used and cause her to deeply resent him. So this could be why even the most salacious lothario desires a virgin. Nope, still not empathetic to their hypocrisy. I'm right here! Those "princess" women are a nuisance to society. lol The cause of sexless marriages is much more multifactorial. In this scenario alone we've entertained the idea that a wife is incapable of consolidating wife and mother. There's also the biologically rational reason that a woman loses her libido after giving birth, a husband might put little effort into pursuing his wife after marriage, Madonna-Whore complex etc. There are so many reasons for a sexless marriage and some of them are caused by husbands. You might have a point here. The only reason I can see this type of man marrying a woman is if he wishes to have children. In some countries, I think US being one of them (I might be wrong), the biological father of a child doesn't have full parental responsibility of the child if he’s not married to the child’s mother or if he was not married to the child’s mother at the time of the child’s conception, birth or any time between the child’s conception and birth. Whereas the biological mother of a child has full parental responsibility of the child, whether she’s married or unmarried. These days I think fewer women are consciously choosing to settle but rather unintentionally getting pregnant in long-term relationships and decide to get married since they've been living together for a long time anyway. Thanks for this explanation. I guess this reinforces the link between feelings of masculinity and a man's genitals and why he appreciates a woman's positive feedback during sex.
  9. Yup, I'm struggling to separate the two. What's the difference? - you can't have love without respect. And I doubt women would feel good being called a "selfish idiot" either. Some examples, perhaps? Having your spouse speak over you, call you names, not ask or consider your opinion, belittle you in public, have fun at your expense amongst his friends - I feel all these as disrespectful which if done enough times can translate into not being loving. Good point. And Zac should also ask for Eva's idea of a solution in light of these necessary compromises that way she feels her opinion is appreciated and it also holds her accountable for whatever changes Zac makes i.e. Eva won't be able to say "You took on a job that makes too little money and now it's harder financially on me" I'd like to know from married mothers who consider themselves to have successful marriages, how they consolidated the two. From a woman's perspective, I completely understand how a woman would see the role of "wife" and "mother" on opposite ends of the spectrum. Generally speaking, I think as soon as a woman becomes a mother, now that she's experienced the consequences of sex and the power and seriousness of it, she's no longer able (doesn't want to?) to lose herself in the playfulness and wildness of it as she did prior to motherhood. Much alike some husbands who have a Madonna-Whore complex towards the mother of his children, In a mother's mind she must be a pillar of moral responsibility, respectability, and purity of mind and she can't consolidate this with being a sexually active woman. (I'm not satisfied with this explanation but I will figure out a way to articulate it better in the future) True, but I suspect Eva sees this as a problem with Zac and if he just made some changes then she'll be fine. A person who doesn't view themselves to have a problem is less likely to procure help for it, especially by themselves. That is a nice image but when I said "exclusive" I meant in terms of feeding habits not relationship exclusivity. WHO recommends the exclusive breastfeeding of an infant for the first 6 months of life in place of any formula or milk-substitute. This strengthens the bond between mum and baby as baby is even more dependent on the mother and also experiences greater closeness than a bottle-fed infant.
  10. Virgin Therapists: What would you do?

    That's understandable.
  11. Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. I've tried but it makes as much sense to me as reading Shakespeare in Latin. Yes, but I believe religion to be the culprit of this canard.
  12. Virgin Therapists: What would you do?

    Really? so just knowing her state of mind would be enough for you to be understanding? wow, communication really is key.
  13. I share this thought. People knowing I'm a virgin wouldn't bother me as much as people thinking I'm promiscuous. Sounds like your nephew has a very good role model. I have noticed this. Although, I think it might be harder for men to convince others that remaining a virgin is a choice and to garner respect for it than for a woman. Because of the whole "key" and the "lock" mindset women might be able to garner more respect for this choice than a man. Thanks for sharing.
  14. Everything is relevant. So a man who is made to feel inadequate outside the bedroom will have less desire to pursue his wife for intimacy inside the bedroom? Why do you think that is? do you think it's because he's emotionally hurt by her and it reflects his desire for her, or because he's just so deterred by her attitude/behaviour that he can't bring himself to become aroused by her, or because he wouldn't feel comfortable being vulnerable with her? (do men feel vulnerable during sex?) I think this preface to the conflict resolution is crucial. Unless both partners are willing to surrender their pride and selfish interests they will never reach a solution that will benefit the marriage and the annoyance and resentment will just compound fight after fight throughout the marriage. You're right. When I actually contemplate it, there still exists quite a lot of benefits to a married mother rather than single mother. I can understand why some women might marry for convenience but every fibre of my being is screaming DON'T DO IT!!! First and foremost it's not fair on the guy who thinks he's marrying for love, secondly she won't be genuinely happy, and third, after her children grow up the marriage will crumble because it was the kids holding her in the marriage. This has "disaster" written all over it. Despite that endearing analogy, a breastfeeding mother may feel "touched out" by the end of the day and would rather sleep on the garage floor than in bed with her husband and risk being touched.
  15. Well, you're right in that girls are not taught to treat boys with respect and dignity and as a result she continues with this attitude as a woman. I don't really know why parents instill this in their daughters, but I have some ideas: - Both mum and dad teach this attitude to their daughter for her protection so she is tough on guys and they don't see her as an easy target. Sometimes when a girl is simply nice to a guy he can get the wrong idea - this can be a threat to a girl's safety if he turns out to be dangerous. - It's commonly socially accepted that boys/teens/men can be sexually deviant and moral miscreants so parents approach the issue with a "they don't deserve respect" mentality. - A neo-feminist approach whereby showing a male the basic human value of respect is somehow diminishing her gender and pandering to a misogynistic era of time. Although raising daughters to "know their worth and not settling for anything less than a man who will cherish her with his entire being" I don't think is the problem. In fact, I would argue that this is what is needed and what is lacking. A good perception of her own self worth is necessary for her self-esteem and confidence and determines how much she will achieve in life; it is the "key to her success" if you will. It's the lacking of self worth which is why girls remain in abusive relationships or enter and remain in jobs where they are belittled and disrespected. A girl needs to be taught to have high standards but she must also be taught to meet those standards herself. I think you're on the right path with 'princess complex' and think it stems from parent/s raising their daughters to believe that they're perfect and if anyone has a problem with you then it's their problem because you could never be wrong. This is so very damaging and makes the person incapable of functioning normally in society. This type of woman has two options: she will enter the real world, have a revelation of the difficulty and be molded to the standards of society because it's necessary for survival (e.g. she will be unable to maintain a job if she's unwilling to compromise or put other people's needs above her own so she will develop these qualities in order to make money) or she will be coddled for the rest of her life by her family, friends and husband never having to step out of her bubble therefore never having to come to the realisation that she is in fact no better than anyone else (In my opinion, this one requires significant financial wealth).
  16. There seems to exist an inconsistency between theory and practice of relationship modes of thought. At times we all: the media, my friends, me, recite the politically correct view on certain relationship expectations, but when it comes to our own relationships there’s a dissonance between what we’re publicly reciting and what we’re practicing. Now my question is not about why this is the case but rather the discrepancy between how we talk about the concept of “trust” in particular, and how it might be realistically applied. We've all heard of the proverbial “right to privacy” when it comes to technology in a marriage. What appears to be the prevailing thought is that a spouse’s accounts, passwords and phone shall remain private and protected because if you truly trusted your spouse you would not need to be privy to their social media accounts and devices. Although my empirical evidence indicates that in application it’s more like: If my spouse is trustworthy then he/she would not feel the need to hide their social media accounts and phone from me. I must admit, I see more logic in the latter mode of thinking than the former. When you marry you have shared access to a home, possessions, bank accounts(?), and the most valuable of all: each others bodies. And despite all this physical, emotional and logistical intimacy, a spouse would still feel the need to hide their social media accounts and phone from their spouse? It seems excessively cautious for a spouse with nothing to hide. Or am I missing something? To be clear, I am not talking about an overbearing and jealous spouse who feels the need to track their partner’s every move. I’m not even suggesting a spouse use their access to check their spouse’s accounts frequently or ever. I’m merely suggesting that when both spouses know they have the ability to access each others accounts it’s showing that you trust them with that access and that you yourself are trustworthy. Does it not? Trust is a conduit to security. As humans, our primary need in any environment is to feel secure. Feeling secure in your environment and with your life is the most basic human need. Given this, would it then not make sense that we would need reassurance of that security in a marriage and a spouse intentionally hiding their phone and accounts is a threat to that security? Would you be content with your spouse not allowing you access to their social media accounts and phone? Would you feel a greater sense of trust and security if your spouse was happy to share these details with you? If you’re willing to share yours with them but not them with you, would this make you curious as to why?
  17. Virgin Therapists: What would you do?

    Adam is right to bring up his feelings of neglect with his wife but would be wrong to continually berate her when he sees that she's currently too stressed to respond in a way that will validate his feelings. Jane is wrong to have neglected Adam for two months. As everyone has mentioned, there are things she could have done that are not time-consuming that show you care. Adam has a right to expect his wife to be concerned about his feelings and his needs. Jane has a right to expect her husband to support her in a time of need (voluntary or involuntary) If I were in Jane's position, I would want my husband to tell me of his feelings of neglect, once. After that one time, despite being unbearably busy, I'm not going to forget so there's no need to tell me a second time. Sure, if you ask me to pick up a bottle of milk during this stressful time, It's likely I'll forget. But if you tell your wife you're feeling neglected, she won't forget. A woman won't forget a feeling. If she tells you she did, she's lying. A woman will work faster to try and get home a half hour earlier for you, a woman will be watching your body language to see how disappointed you are in her that day, a woman will be grading the coldness of your kiss goodbye as she drives to work in the morning, a woman will be thinking "I know, I know" in her head as she's frantically working at home on her project and you innocuously walk past, a woman will register every single passive aggressive word you say over dinner and use it to assess how angry you are. Women are very intuitive and they are self-preservationists. A wife might not know what she's doing wrong but she absolutely knows that her husband is not happy. If a wife made no effort to make things better after her husband told her of his feelings, then she knows he is still upset with her. Even when she disingenuously asks "what's wrong?" she absolutely knows what's wrong. So, there is no reason for Adam to be berating Jane with his feelings. JANE KNOWS. Adam should absolutely tell Jane of his feelings - once. Adam telling Jane of his feelings makes Jane accountable when her stressful period is over. She is not able to say "why didn't you tell me?" She has to answer the much more loaded question "why didn't you care?"
  18. Hey guys, I have a few questions that I'm eager to get your opinion on: 1. How often does a guy 20 yrs old and up masturbate? 2. If your wife wanted the responsibility of "taking care" of it for you whenever you needed it (for the purposes of preventing the intrusion of porn, lust, or to have it always be an intimacy thing rather than a self-gratification thing) would that be something you would welcome? As a woman, every time I felt like I wanted it, I would initiate with my husband. I wouldn't want to "take care" of it myself anymore. Would you feel this way or is it important for guys to have private individual time to do it themselves sometimes? "Take care of it for you" = handjob or oral or or full sex If he needed the release say, once a day, I think I could handle it. More than that and we would need to reassess. *Side note: I once heard a guy say that if it's for a handjob he'd always rather do it himself than have his girlfriend do it because she's not as skilled at it as he is, having had years of practice with his own hand. Opinion on this? 3. Would you find it disrespectful if your wife "took care" of her own release individually without asking you to participate despite you being available, accessible, eager?
  19. We're in agreement. Unfortunately I think there are more women like this than we realise and the problem is parenting. There are so many parents who raise their daughters to think they're the most important person in the world and they become selfish and entitled women and mothers. I went to school with these girls and I see their type everywhere. They're a nuisance to society. The more I understand about men the more I can empathize with them. While I, as a woman, may not draw my inherent value from my ability to provide for my family I can understand the need for appreciation for something you feel so strongly about. And if all I was receiving for my effort was complaints, abuse and neglect I would feel very frustrated and hurt. Would you liken it to a husband and wife who can't speak to each other for a year but can write notes and communicate through text? For a wife, not being able to communicate verbally with her husband and receive verbal responses from him for one year would be, for me, as you describe sex, possibly durable but excruciatingly difficult - and not just difficult logistically but emotionally, I would hurt in my heart.
  20. I can understand if there's no other sexual intimacy for a year, but surely other forms of sexual intimacy when a wife still doesn't feel comfortable for intercourse is durable, no?
  21. Good point. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's cultural? Was her mother the same way towards her father? How do you think your father feels? Do you think he feels neglected? True. But I think I'm more with Zac on this one and think Eva might be a bit too demanding. Of course the situation could be better if Zac had a job with less travel and he was home more for her and the kids but life isn't perfect and sometimes you have to make trade-offs. It's because of Zac's job that she's got a home near her family, that she's able to stay home with her children, and that she can provide for her children. Unless she has an extraordinary reason like postnatal depression or a child with special needs she should stop complaining and be grateful. It just seems like such a first world problem. 20 years ago My dad was working all day and going to school at night and was home only 6 hours a day while my mum was at home with a newborn and a toddler, and no one complained. It was life, you did what you had to do to survive.
  22. Too many people follow the expectations of society without questioning whether it's what they really want. Good on you for questioning. The strength of your conviction is very admirable.
  23. So, this is a situation with a friend of mine and her husband (newlyweds - first argument) that I would appreciate your opinions on because I'm having trouble viewing this with a bipartisan mindset. I've long heard that witholding sex in a marriage is cruel punishment the passive agressive (usually) woman inflicts upon her husband for the purposes of getting her way on a particular issue by holding out on her husband to the point of his desperation where he ultimately caves in and appeases her demands in order to receive the affection he is desperately craving. I think most of us can agree that this behaviour is toxic, unconstructive, and sowing the seeds of resentment. ALTHOUGH, are there not contexts where witholding sex is not used as a weapon by a passive aggressive wife but rather simply the natural reaction of a *Insert emotion* wife? (*Insert: angry, annoyed, sad, hurt, disappointed etc) Hear me out, It would make sense for a wife to be deterred from having sex with her husband if there's been a disagreement between the couple and she feels *Insert feeling*, right? (*Insert: misunderstood, disrespected, unheard, ignored etc) Then lets say days/weeks pass - still no sex, to the husband's dismay - and the husband and wife communicate/fight but still can't reach a compromise on their subject of disagreement and the wife still, understandably, does not want to have sex with the husband feeling how she's feeling. Her witholding is therefore involuntary due to feelings of disconnect and not intentionally inflicted to manipulate. I completely understand the wife's reaction in this context and I don't think it's wrong! (In fact, I'm sure that's how I'd react, am I wrong?) If she feels disconnected from the husband and he's trying to fix it / not trying to fix it, and they can't agree, isn't it natural to feel deterred from sex and withhold? 1. She can't help the way she feels, right? and if communication is to no avail, doesn't it make sense that for the days/weeks that it takes for an agreement to be reached that the wife won't want to have sex during this time? 2. Would you consider this type of withholding manipulative / passive aggressive? 3. Like the wife, why doesn't the husband feel deterred from sex during this time of disagreement? but rather, still persues her, getting frutrated by her rejections? 4. What would you do in this situation?!! She's so frustrated with him because they can't reach a compromise and he's so frustrated with her because she won't be intimate with him. How do you solve this!?!?!?! I think I'm too close to my friend that I'm totally biased to her side of this issue and unable to rationalise his side and nor a solution. Help?!